How fun if don't buy with real money?

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · November 2009

It just takes a lot longer to get the CS items using coins.

Fleez - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Meh... you can still have fun just dont expect to be Mr. L33t Im Da BiGgeSt Pkerrrrrrrr of DEMS all!! Remember lvl 30 STILL die VERY fast to a lvl 60+ ( i know that was bad)

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · November 2009

No.

You're talking NO PvP whatsoever, very few vanity items such as mounts/faster aerogear/fashion/GA's/Charms ect, poor gear and equips, being shunned and looked down on a lot by the rich, most high level instances cut off, non-stop grinding for days for anything decent....and so on. It completely erases the point of even playing an MMO.

You can pretend you're having fun, messing around quietly in the corner with the small handful of other free-players, doing the same thing every day, nothing to look forward to when you reach high level, or trotting along in bh's and fb's with your unrefined 3* and quest reward gear trying to keep up with the super powered cash demons in front of you, but trailing behind.... but in the end you'll realize.

Being poor in a rich person's playground is NOT fun.

Saitada - Sanctuary · November 2009

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Being poor in a rich person's playground is NOT fun.

Welcome to the real world.

~Saitada

Rockstare - Heavens Tear · November 2009

GM

Please, close and delete this annoying meaningless thread.

b:angry

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Having fun is having fun. You can't pay for happiness.

Some years later... payers: damn, why I spend so much on a game that won't stay (meaning like 50 years from now or something) forever?

non-payers: Sweet I get a swimming pool with the house!

Centetric - Lost City · November 2009

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ok... so what? aleast i have the digits. what do you have? a cleric on the pvp server that won't even function as a proper cannon fodder. and a level that'll be smack around on any of the given servers. just cause your on a pvp server doesn't mean ****. and i am willing to go as far as to say, you don't really have anything going for you on lost city. i might not go screaming at the top of my lungs pking ppl every second of the game, but aleast my name is somewhat known in the ht tw circle. have you even tw-ed before... i mean ones that doesn't involve you spending the entire time at spawn. and considering you can't even lift a finger against half of your server... there is not really much you have going for you atm.

stfu ur on a carebear server .......... ijs
and being triple digits on a carebear server means nothing to me. FYI clerics can be good at PvP u just gotta know how to do it .... >___> b:laugh

P.S.: i have actually TWd many times b:thanks

_Aphrael_ - Sanctuary · November 2009

For me games like this have always been about the challenge and personal achievement. yes i would like to have a full set of +12 refined lunar gear with lvl12 gems but if i just get out my credit card and buy it did i achieve anything? it makes no difference to me that if/when i finally get 1000's of other player will have already got it through the cash shop because i will know that i worked for it and and accomplished something.

"happiness is the journey not the destinatoin"

Asmathi - Sanctuary · November 2009

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

its a safe assumption that losing shouldn't be categorized in the fun category. aleast that’s my assumption. i am not sure if your raised with the saying everyone is a winner... but let me inform you, thats is not the case ourside of your house. and seriously... thats really a loser saying. it might be good sportsmanship to shake the loser's hand... buts thats all it is. the loser will still be a loser.
and if winning makes the game fun for me... how does that make me a noob when it comes to fun?
my apologies if you are one of those odd balls that actually think constantly losing is fun.

True, but most people do not view Winning as the ONLY Form of fun. If you had a good fight, a close fight, but still lost, It was fun. Unless you are one of those people that cant stand losing and beat them up because they won in a videogame. b:chuckle

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary · November 2009

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

No.

You're talking NO PvP whatsoever, very few vanity items such as mounts/faster aerogear/fashion/GA's/Charms ect, poor gear and equips, being shunned and looked down on a lot by the rich, most high level instances cut off, non-stop grinding for days for anything decent....and so on. It completely erases the point of even playing an MMO.

You can pretend you're having fun, messing around quietly in the corner with the small handful of other free-players, doing the same thing every day, nothing to look forward to when you reach high level, or trotting along in bh's and fb's with your unrefined 3* and quest reward gear trying to keep up with the super powered cash demons in front of you, but trailing behind.... but in the end you'll realize.

Being poor in a rich person's playground is NOT fun.

Perfection.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · November 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Try telling that to Obsessed... I think someone forgot to tell her she is supposed to drop fast......

heavy venos sacrifice huge amount of mag atk to switch their vulnerability from phy to mag. and since mag does more dmg then phy atks, they are really at an disadvantage. considering how fast bm (no mag marrow) drop to mag atks, heavy veno will drop twice as fast. i can see the uses in pve situtions, but in pvp heavy venos are of little use without pets. the only real thing they have going for them is that they'll get to surprise the opponent for the first 2 shots. but that only works the first time.

Asmathi - Sanctuary wrote: »

True, but most people do not view Winning as the ONLY Form of fun. If you had a good fight, a close fight, but still lost, It was fun. Unless you are one of those people that cant stand losing and beat them up because they won in a videogame. b:chuckle

but you see... its not going to be a close fight. well... you can dream that its a close fight. a free player with his 3* +2 refined gear won't even be a challenge to an average cash shopper with +6 or some big time cser with his +10. so the question is... how long will fun last when you get 1-3 shotted everytime i you step out of sz or go in to tw.
and a lost is a lost... doesn't matter how much you sugar coated it. you might feel good about your first lost... but hey... get used to it... cause there is a hundred more of those coming.
and personally... i play games/sports/whatever to win... or at the very least not get stomp on. seriously whats the point of playing or doing anything when you'll just be push to the dirt?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

heavy venos sacrifice huge amount of mag atk to switch their vulnerability from phy to mag. and since mag does more dmg then phy atks, they are really at an disadvantage. considering how fast bm (no mag marrow) drop to mag atks, heavy veno will drop twice as fast. i can see the uses in pve situtions, but in pvp heavy venos are of little use without pets. the only real thing they have going for them is that they'll get to surprise the opponent for the first 2 shots. but that only works the first time.
?

HA veno is a pvp build.....

Try dueling Obsessed.. or chase her down in TW.
Also, read the veno forum on HA veno builds and you will see that heavy venos can also wear arcane, and mix and match, so they can get as much mdef and pdef as they feel they need. Their only "disadvantage" is that they have less magic, although still enough to use at level magic weapon, and at level HA and Arcane armors. Their "nukes" are a little lower, but they make it up by not going down fast to either of the damage types.

We are not talking dual axes veno with 5 magic here....

tweakz · November 2009

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

heavy venos sacrifice huge amount of mag atk to switch their vulnerability from phy to mag. and since mag does more dmg then phy atks, they are really at an disadvantage.

I highly doubt this. I'm pure mag, and have more pdef in fox form with alt equips than mdef. I can also take down mobs at seemingly the same speed. My guess is a HA can take down mobs faster than an AA. What HA provides is the possibility of super high pdef at the expense of mdef.

but in pvp heavy venos are of little use without pets.

If in a squad, their debuffs alone contribute more than anything. Debuffs aren't matk dependent.

This is of course assuming the veno is competent (most I randomly squad with aren't).

Blds - Lost City · November 2009

Here it is.

No; this game is NOT fun if you cannot buy anything.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · November 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

HA veno is a pvp build.....

Try dueling Obsessed.. or chase her down in TW.
Also, read the veno forum on HA veno builds and you will see that heavy venos can also wear arcane, and mix and match, so they can get as much mdef and pdef as they feel they need. Their only "disadvantage" is that they have less magic, although still enough to use at level magic weapon, and at level HA and Arcane armors. Their "nukes" are a little lower, but they make it up by not going down fast to either of the damage types.

We are not talking dual axes veno with 5 magic here....

tweakz wrote: »

I highly doubt this. I'm pure mag, and have more pdef in fox form with alt equips than mdef. I can also take down mobs at seemingly the same speed. My guess is a HA can take down mobs faster than an AA. What HA provides is the possibility of super high pdef at the expense of mdef.

If in a squad, their debuffs alone contribute more than anything. Debuffs aren't matk dependent.

This is of course assuming the veno is competent (most I randomly squad with aren't).

It takes an average archer 2 shots to realize the armor type of the opponent. So unless the veno is switching armor after every shot, the protection advantage isn't really there. And whats the point of mix and match... that'll just make you just as **** as wearing light armor.
what i find even funny is a heavy stat veno wearing arcane. so what... she has the same protection as any arcane veno out there, but has a **** atk power.
i am a big advocate of a littler variation of standarized builds... but sometimes people pushed it too much. its like saying an heavy archer would do less dmg, but can live longer to make up for the difference. NO. a heavy archer just plain out sucks. and yea, venos are more versatile, but a heavy veno is still only good for debuffing. and in all realism tweakz, in tw i get debuffed more by archers then venos.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · November 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We are not talking dual axes veno with 5 magic here....

Sorry to disappoint you. It's more than that. Don't bring me into this quarrel because you know nothing about it.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you. It's more than that. Don't bring me into this quarrel.

uh? oh... just noticed your sig b:laugh

@ Kiyoshi - Well, you have the right to your opinion. However, I would still recommend you learn a little more about venos, since it may help you in the future.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · November 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

uh? oh... just noticed your sig b:laugh

>.< lol
Remember, "there is always one". No matter what it is...

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2009

Asmathi - Sanctuary wrote: »

True, but most people do not view Winning as the ONLY Form of fun. If you had a good fight, a close fight, but still lost, It was fun. Unless you are one of those people that cant stand losing and beat them up because they won in a videogame. b:chuckle

Says the person who had their sig revised twice. Funny coming from you asmathi, youve shown more spite and venge on this forum than in game too b:chuckle you couldnt STAND this comment of yours being in my sig b:chuckle

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3621792&postcount=35

Obsessed - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

BS talk about heavy venos

You don't know what you are talking about good sir. HA veno is by far the best pvp veno build, there just isn't many who pull it off well. Veno pvp is centered around survivability(what better way to survive then to have optimizabily highest defenses, and high hp due to Heavy refines), main DD comes from pets(flesh ream'd lvl 100 scorpion and/or phoenix really hurts!). It's an expensive build, and for a reason.

I agree with the majority of your other points, but lets stick to the topic and lay off the heavy venos.b:shutup

Despite me being in +7 tt90 heavy, w/flawless citrines+ 99gold glaive(~8k hp unbuffed[coulda been more, never got around to upgrading my holyhelm] *drools*), I've nearly quit due to the packs(just catshop to buy gold99s). I was still considered in top-tier gear, but releasing those made me feel like all my hard work was shot to hell, and severely discouraged me from continuing playing.

Also with gold prices being so high, new players cant achieve what I was able to.

Miss_Tika - Lost City · November 2009

Nelanther - Lost City wrote: »

Right now, absolutely not. It is a minimal fee of $2000 to be competetive in PvP or useful in TW. Unless your standards are very low I do not recommend trying to play this game without spending significant money.

If you want instant satisfaction like the rest of the losers on this game, then sure, charge money to get exactly what you want in a few clicks.

Getting "good gear" is easily obtainable without the use of cash shop, just takes alot of time. I dont cash shop, i have above average gear, but ive also been playing for 12 months.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Arverna - Sanctuary wrote: »

Make cash in game selling items and stuffs...

Spent that cash to buy Gold (real Money equivalent in game).

Use gold to buy what you want or need or just resell it to make more money....

Can play and use cash shop without using real life cash: just take little longer.

THIS. 100%.

I have spent a few hundred dollars in the cash shop. A few friends of mine from down the street have bought maybe a 10 dollar card from Target (combined, as in, one of them used it) and have played way longer than I have. The only difference is, beyond my slightly better understanding of the game (but that's because I've played games for decades longer than them), is I've leveled quite a bit faster. I have a few level 30s and 2 in the 80s (both the same level). One of these friends has three lvl 70+ and a lvl 50+ and has not spend a SINGLE dollar on this game, and enjoys the hell out of it.

It most certainly can be done, but for those who want things faster, but unless you have mastered profit using catshops and re-selling on a large scale, you pay $$$. Simple as that.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You don't know what you are talking about good sir. HA veno is by far the best pvp veno build, there just isn't many who pull it off well. Veno pvp is centered around survivability(what better way to survive then to have optimizabily highest defenses, and high hp due to Heavy refines), main DD comes from pets(flesh ream'd lvl 100 scorpion and/or phoenix really hurts!). It's an expensive build, and for a reason.

flesh ream as fun as it may be hurts less and less as levels go up. and of course veno's main dd comes from pets... hence i said:

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

but in pvp heavy venos are of little use without pets.

there are venos out there that'll kill me without ever using a pet... but a heavy veno won't be one of them.

Imamandamnit - Heavens Tear · November 2009

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It takes an average archer 2 shots to realize the armor type of the opponent. So unless the veno is switching armor after every shot, the protection advantage isn't really there. And whats the point of mix and match... that'll just make you just as **** as wearing light armor.
what i find even funny is a heavy stat veno wearing arcane. so what... she has the same protection as any arcane veno out there, but has a **** atk power.
i am a big advocate of a littler variation of standarized builds... but sometimes people pushed it too much. its like saying an heavy archer would do less dmg, but can live longer to make up for the difference. NO. a heavy archer just plain out sucks. and yea, venos are more versatile, but a heavy veno is still only good for debuffing. and in all realism tweakz, in tw i get debuffed more by archers then venos.

Mix&match can give you more defenses than just standard light armour wearer

It isnt like comparing heavy armour archer or any other class,venos get heavier bonuses from wearing heavy armour(fox form for extra attack strength from str points and the crazy phys def)other classes dont

As for archers realizing what armour type youre wearing after 2 shots,think the venos gonna be standing there doing nothing?Archers gonna be busy surviving too lol

Anyway all you said is hypotheticals,cant say youve even had a proper fight with a heavy veno at your level,only 2 i known or heard of is obsessed/famelessveno and i havent seen him around for months

denesis · November 2009

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

but you see... its not going to be a close fight. well... you can dream that its a close fight. a free player with his 3* +2 refined gear won't even be a challenge to an average cash shopper with +6 or some big time cser with his +10. so the question is... how long will fun last when you get 1-3 shotted everytime i you step out of sz or go in to tw.
and a lost is a lost... doesn't matter how much you sugar coated it. you might feel good about your first lost... but hey... get used to it... cause there is a hundred more of those coming.
and personally... i play games/sports/whatever to win... or at the very least not get stomp on. seriously whats the point of playing or doing anything when you'll just be push to the dirt?

I agree with u here, whats the point of playing anything if u dont wanna win, or cant win. In the end that really isnt fun.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · November 2009

It's not about winning its about the fun you have trying.

Bartack - Heavens Tear · November 2009

1 vs 1 pvp, if you want to be the best there is, you will have to spend big money. If you have friends or good faction mates, pve will not be an issue. Charms are not as important as people tend to think in most pve instances. In fact, the biggest advantage of a cash shop player, is dragon orbs. Even anni pack gears cant compete to uber high refines on 'common' tt and legendary gears.

Abide - Harshlands · November 2009

denesis wrote: »

I agree with u here, whats the point of playing anything if u dont wanna win, or cant win. In the end that really isnt fun.

Thats liek what the whole consept of life and gaming is to win lol, For some people believe in buying stuff to win. But i know some people who can not pay to win easily o.o./

Whitescars - Heavens Tear · November 2009

can be fun without putting real money but u will need to buy cash shop items as u get higher or it can be a real drag.

this can limit your gameplay now that gold prices have gone up nerly 5X since i started playing

i dream of the days when its 1 gold = 100k max

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · November 2009

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's not about winning its about the fun you have trying.

Wow, I love this game! I can never win it and I'll never be the best at it no matter how hard I try, unless I spend 10 hours a day of my free time on monotonous nonstop grinding. Best game ever

Oh wait....

The thing is, a lot of players here, including myself, generated a lot of their wealth from the old 100-200k gold days and don't really realize what it's like to be in 500k-per-gold-land from day one.

How fun if don't buy with real money?

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