Moron Barbs

Not that anyone cares, but I think I'll be washing my hands of this fail about now. -_- I'll just say this and then I'm most likely going to stop posting in this thread:

OP, you rightfully pointed out that there is a problem with moronic barbs... namely, their ego. We do indeed need more attention to this issue and quite a few barbs could probably do with a good humbling.

That being said, the wording in which you defend your points and your subsequent relial on arguments of pure statistics (which I've never had any taste for) have pretty much led me to conclude I don't want to defend those points any further. :P IMO you would do well to attempt a little more tact in your arguments in the future... or at least not post drunk... but that's just my two cents.

I leave you all with this thought: play casually, play respectfully, and think outside the box. It's a game, not a test.

Ok, have you looked up the barb aggro skill mechanics? Because i have been in squads with barbs (90+) who cannot hold aggro where i could. Its not that i am bragging about my 'skill' as a barb, i just researched someones work and applied. Dont be so afraid of your chi usage to ignore alternating DEVOUR in with your flesh reams. Yes, you will have to work harder at alternating your skills to keep your chi up, so u don't get to be lazy (unless your veno will keep you sparked up). And yes, devour does not generate the same amount of hate as flesh ream, but it will stack with it, where roar does not. When you see barbs using roar with their flesh reams, look out for part wipes.

I have been playing the barb role from back before christmas last year (yeah, slow lvler, i know) and I have seen a disturbing trend with the newer barbs who have always had a high lvl buddy or faction mate tank their bosses. When its their turn, they only think they know what to do. DONT BABY YOUR BARBS, TEACH THEM, PLS. Also, i have never met a BM who can hold or steal aggro from me yet (if I am tanking that is). However, I haven't seen a lot of fist BM's either so...whatever.

Kott - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:embarrass your comprehension of great* is beyond me....

Lol

Thats cause its fun to test our limits sometimes.

Im trying to solo most of the mini-bosses i get from quests even if it cost a lot in pots, its a lot of fun to write in faction chat, "I soloed it!" XD and then Lol at those asking way higher lvls that almost one-shot the boss to help them XD

Blds - Lost City wrote: »

I agree that Barbs are as important as they'd like to think they are

But I can assure you at level 77 even without Undine I could have pulled aggro from you if I wanted to.

@RedMenace

Barbs are the only class I see who demand to get a free run without paying the wine cost

No thanks; I'll take the Veno with a Herc for bh69.

gl doing that you will need a barb or bm with high hp to do pole or the most pro non laggy squad you can get as for gaurmob not every veno can do him easily but its probally possible not sure though

i'm suprised this thread is still alive, considering the title itself is a flame on barbs

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even then, there's SOME barbs I run into who are fail, but my experience with them after 80 is few and far between. To this date I have only ever ONCE been on a BH69 where every single Gaurnob and Polearm debuff/aoe was canceled.

i ALMOST been on a run where this barb canceled almost all the aoes xD there. He set himself to a rhythm and a tick tock clock counter so it took him about 3 misses for him to start his set up, but after that he canceled every single aoe/debuff i admit it was rare and was lucky for us.

XylolyX - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I squadded with another barb for a TW run...his timing was the best I've ever seen. It was pretty funny on one boss where he mistimed one aoe...he was cursing himself the rest of the run. No one died, heck I don't think anyone's charm even ticked.

....o_____0!?

Blds - Lost City wrote: »

Barbs are the only class I see who demand to get a free run without paying the wine cost

hell, as a veno when I did my FB 59, I was pissed to high heavens when the tank barb wined (with his own wine mind you - and never asked for any payment either) the instance. I hate wine.

I'm doing my barbs 59 the way its meant to be - no wine. I just think personally those who wine their runs are just lazy.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

You should try fb89 and 99. Youll be kicked from squad without second thoughts if u insist its unwined b:chuckle

Bit differant on HT, most BH Edens are run unwined since its a quick run, but granted Brim (mostly) and 99 are wined

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Essentially, this post is a wake-up call to all groups forming for BH quests to take a good BM and just not invite barbs.

As an ex healer and now archer, I catch a lot of class profiling for being an archer. A lot of players assume I just try to steal aggro on purpose for every mob. A lot of the time, When in squad I'm on my own when it comes to healing. Many healers wont heal you or say your doing it intentionally. I've also had barbs say if I take aggro I can have it. To which I replied, That's fine, My defense is good enough. In other words I don't need your "protection" from mobs. Truthfully, I've partied with about 3 good Bm's in my 66 levels as an archer that did very well stunning and dealing massive damage. I would much rather have a blademaster in my party than barbarians usually. However the only reason this is not possible is because of alphamale. I can probably count the times on one hand when the normal aggro hold skill works properly. I can tell when someone does not use it or is lazy with the aggro hold because the mobs are on me instantly which is mostly the case. Even after waiting for them to use the skills, which don't work Even if I remove my tome, rings and use +3 attack bolts instead of +75 bolts. MY first thought is that the barb is unable to hold aggro, yes with no mp skills, so a blademaster can do the same job right now. That usually applies to bosses too. Since I take take aggro with no effort and pausing between attacks and crits. I can easily take the mob if I am not careful. The same strategy could be used to kill a boss with a bm tanking. Of course there are barbs who know the skill,s have them leveled and use them and they can hold aggro. Those are my favorite barbs because I can just use mp skill and deal damage to my full capabilities and drop mobs. Can't do that in any situation with Bm's. Even ones 10 levels higher usually.


It would make life alot easier if Bm's had an aggro skill as well. I would rather have a BM who is strong enough to tank but deals more damage and holds aggro than always relying on barbs. There are some Bm's who actually have enough defense to tank and hp and they know what's going on.I've been lucky enough only to run into one or 2 barbs with bad attitudes. I got lucky enough to kill one. Out of nowhere he said he would "Own me" so I gave him a shot at the title. Of course he said running in a duel was cheating. The other one was a beginner in bh29 so I just let it go. I'll invite Bm's anytime most are chill.

Regards

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

hell, as a veno when I did my FB 59, I was pissed to high heavens when the tank barb wined (with his own wine mind you - and never asked for any payment either) the instance. I hate wine.

I'm doing my barbs 59 the way its meant to be - no wine. I just think personally those who wine their runs are just lazy.

The first time you attempt Brimstone run unwined, you'll never go in without again. Guaranteed. Between basic Mag mobs, Leechers, Archers that run AND AoE (super charged Acephalids SUCK...) and the fact that they literally couldn't pack more mobs in there if they tried...oh! And everything is a runner. And fast. I'm fairly durable, and game for just about anything...but when I get to the point I start getting BH in there, I'll probably want to cry.

Not to worry though...there will still be *BLEEP*tons of mobs in there for you to play with. b:laugh

As a cleric, I prefer a Barb to tank over a BM. Setting aside the attitudes (BM: b:pleased I'm so awesome I can solo 5 mobs at once without a cleric. Barb: Q-Q My repair costs are high I'm not paying wine!) and experience/talent at playing their class, I generally have less problems with Barbs as tanks.

They have more HP and if I lag, they can take a hit or two while I recover. More Phys-Def than a Sword/Fist BM of equal level (If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me). If the **** hits the fan and I or another skwishy gets aggro, 90% of the time Barb can flesh ream it back before anyone dies. Barbs have lower crit and lower damage rate than BM's...but hey, they're not there to hit hard, they're there to *be* hit hard. b:chuckle

With the Barbs I work with a lot, they even let me attack when I get sparks b:cute I just call out 'Spark!' and they Invoke the Spirit. I hit for about 5-8k depending on the boss, and they take 50-150 damage per hit. With an uncharmed BM, I have to keep the heals up constantly.

However, I would never say no to a BM to tank, unless it was ridiculous (eg a BM 10 levels lower than the boss). I'd rather have them for DD's though.b:victory

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then 59 is the last one you would be thinking that in. Try Gaurnob/Pole or Linus/Transient without wines. It ain't a matter of being lazy but not spending HOURS on a BH when you can farm mats for 30-50 mins and save yourself and a squad a ****-ton of time. I don't know anyone who would enjoy doing those kinds of BH runs for that long.. every day, sometimes twice a day.

What is more, try running a BH69 at 87+ and tell me how much exp you get from the mobs and how long it takes you to run it unwined....

It is not being lazy, it is being time effective and not waste people's time.

Now, if you are running FB69 at 70ish, you actualy get great exp and drops from the mobs, but once get 10-15 levels highers, you get pretty much nothing...

Interesting conversation!

Lets see, I am a barbarian. I've... done a lot of tanking! Have some comments to make, I suppose.

Barbs:
-skill "flesh ream" creates aggro; unless some dd is hitting for, approximately, 10 times harder, flesh ream will always keep or grab back aggro.
-skill "devour" increases aggro (no generation); its a double-edged sword, since it makes bms/archers/pets hit harder too; also reduces attack lvl 10% @ lvl 10
-aoe aggro skill "Roar" that resets aggro rather nicely onto barb
-skill "Alacrity of the Beast" = cancel channeling
-skill "Frighten" (why do other barbs forget about this one >.<) @ lvl 10 reduces phy dmg 30% for 10 seconds.

Notes on tanking.

-The channeling of practically every boss can be cancelled with a good internet connection, focus, and lvl 7 alacrity In my experience so far, there are no magic aoes that cannot be cancelled (up to TT 2-3... no, haven't done the last boss yet!). This means that a good barb should be able to cancel channeling on bosses every time.

-Physical aoes are rather harder to cancel; they CAN be, but they have no consistent timing (think soulbanisher in TT 1-2 or 1-3, or drum boss). Here's a cool thing I do though; wait for an aoe, wait a few seconds, then use Frighten>Devour (then aoe comes) = 40% dmg reduction on aoe. Thats not something a bms can do, that I'm aware of. And sometimes, I try to time alacrity to when I think an aoe will come soon (say frighten is in cooldown) and it sometimes does cancel (think *lucky*).

-Two ways to have aggro: Create "hate" or though superior dmg. From what I've seen, if I as a barb spam flesh ream, and throw in an occasional devour, dmg has to hit about 10 times higher for an aggro switch to occur. For instance, if archer/wizard does a few 20k crits in a row, when I am hitting 1-3k (in TT), then aggro switch can occur (I've seen it happen... some archers do crazy stuff with their weps). Happily, a flesh ream or 2 afterwards, I can have aggro again. I know of no bms my level, that can put out a dmg high enough (consistently close to 10x mine) to keep aggro. And certainly, fist bms might hit high, but lets be realistic >.< archers hit harder.

-Another way to cancel channeling = hitting with physical attack @ just the right moment. In fact, nothing against you fist bms, but you are usually the cause of me as barb losing timing on cancel. A physical attack will land in just before my alacrity is ready, but cuz I've pressed the hotkey for 'Alacrity', it goes off anyways; thus, the next channeling, alacrity hasn't refreshed yet. Unfortunately, this type of "physical hit interrupts channel" isn't consistent; not sure what the #s are, but given that after I miss a cancel when this happens, the next channel usually happens, it can't be more than 50% (guesswork). Given that I can usually cancel 95+% of channeling when I have a good connection, as far as this aspect of tanking goes, barbs do better. Your Cleric has an easier time healing you (if you are cancelling a magic attack) and your squad takes less dmg (if you are cancelling aoe).

More notes: Every Class Has Their Stupid Players. Barbs, Bms, and Clerics are not excluded from this General Principle. Nuff' said.

Even more notes: Kudos to ppl who like to push the boundaries of their class! I'll never say there isn't stuff a bms can't tank. And given a high enough lvl, wizards, archers, and clerics can tank stuff too (magic dmg, of course). Venos probably can tank too, though I have no personal experience with this. Heck, given the right situation/gear/experience, any class can tank something or other. But it comes down to this. As others have said, good barb > good bms. We aren't comparing crazy bms with high lvl gear & a lot of experience to the so-called 'moron barb'. We are talking about 2 players who are both very good @ what they do, barb > bms. It is that simple!

One last note: BH69. Polearm and Gaurnob (last 2 bosses) have fasssst channeling. Crazy fast channeling, I estimate, that there is about a 0.5 second period within alacrity must hit in order for a cancel to occur. So yeah, a few aoes slip though. If the cleric is low 7X, we all know what 2 aoes in a row can do. I wonder if, perhaps, fist bms who have tanked bh69 with good clerics would do if cleric(s) went caput. And all of those aoes going unchecked? I can see that a cleric/low lvl squad has a higher chance of dying with a bms tanking. Thus, (given situation of good barb and good bms), the bms who insists on tanking... blegh.

Kudos to you if you read all of this! Please comment.


Brock