Moron Barbs

Zoe - Heavens Tear

The boss in frost that debuffs, we had no barb, no bm to tank it. We were a party of arcanes. Veno pets do not work because of the debuff. I'm the arcane veno that used foxform and tanked the boss myself. It worked.

You never know what you can tank until you try.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Due to PMs in game, allow me to mention this:

If I ask you what the speed effect is at a set amount of -interval on fists, and you don't know the answer, don't PM me about what class out-damages fisters. Again, if you don't know the main mechanic of all fisters, your comparison is trash. I will go with it until amusement ends, then blacklist. I don't care about uneducated opinions.

Jewyman - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Due to PMs in game, allow me to mention this:

If I ask you what the speed effect is at a set amount of -interval on fists, and you don't know the answer, don't PM me about what class out-damages fisters. Again, if you don't know the main mechanic of all fisters, your comparison is trash. I will go with it until amusement ends, then blacklist. I don't care about uneducated opinions.

And if someone gives you math proving you wrong, nor know a single thing about hate mechanics, dont go flaunting ego. Your attempts at trying to quiz someone who proves you wrong, and then answers your questions 'correctly' is just plain ignorance. Then dipping as low as to using common school yard vulgarities and sexual innuendo when youre pissed off is embarassing. Close your math book, and get off your soap box buddy, the only uneducated one here is yourself.

PS. dont think Im not reporting that , itll look lovely how your turn it from disproving you to sticking genetalia in anothers mouth.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Its a game, not AP Calculus (yet) Use common sense. lol If someone is hitting you harder, wouldnt you wanna get rid of? (Ex. BMs)

If someone bit you and rip skin (Ex.flesh ream) wouldn't you just be very irritated and eliminate that?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

lol, attack speed is just basic order of operation math o: nothing to get all haughty over :P.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Jewyman - Sanctuary wrote: »

And if someone gives you math proving you wrong, nor know a single thing about hate mechanics, dont go flaunting ego. Your attempts at trying to quiz someone who proves you wrong, and then answers your questions 'correctly' is just plain ignorance. Then dipping as low as to using common school yard vulgarities and sexual innuendo when youre pissed off is embarassing. Close your math book, and get off your soap box buddy, the only uneducated one here is yourself.

PS. dont think Im not reporting that , itll look lovely how your turn it from disproving you to sticking genetalia in anothers mouth.

Asked 3 questions, every single one was wrong. You did not know -interval, nor the effects of speed buffs on a set interval. As such, you don't know how fists operate. So your opinion was useless. And I screenshot lots when I'm drunk, so feel free to ticket what you want

ChaoticTears - Harshlands

boo4u wrote: »

This BM speaks the truth.I have tanked bh69 since the time i have gotten them in BH...

Tanking 69 doesnt mean anyone is a good BM .... just means they have a good Cleric.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Factions are not necessary to have friends. I've been factionless from day one (so far, anyway), and my friends list has quite a few nice folks I could call on to do instances with - though not so much at my level all the time. So yeah, I squad up with strangers. It's kind of the spice of life, you know - playing with people you don't know already. Sure you'll run into a few morons, but it's all worth it to find people who aren't. XD

Agreed. It's a lottery. I have a nice friends list from before I was in faction - but I'm in a faction for the people, not for TW or anything like that.

Obviously you can have a great time without a faction - but it makes it easier to find proven people to help you. Doesn't mean you can do that otherwise - just makes it easier.

RedMenace

\time to grind on the veno, to pay for the #@&^%$ barb

Telarith - Sanctuary

ChaoticTears - Harshlands wrote: »

Tanking 69 doesnt mean anyone is a good BM .... just means they have a good Cleric.

A lvl 48 cleric was solo-healing just fine, until 20-30 secs in an AoE 1 shot them. During this time they needed to purify twice, due to back to back debuffs on the 10 secs mag cast. It may be just me, but assuming a lvl 48 cleric is 'good' seems kinda presumptious. But as I was both the tank and cleric there, I guess I should say thanks? Still don't think it's deserved, seeing as the debuff is pretty dang obvious when the tank is targeted by the cleric.

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

Part of being a good cleric for the FB is being able to at least tank the AoE...not so much a skilled cleric there as a passable cleric for the instance. If the cleric can't survive the AoE, how does it heal? b:shocked

The skill is in the quick purifies while maintaining purify stacks. Survival is decided by gear and level. If my 2nd account cleric had better gear/level, they would have solo healed the whole thing just fine, as the worst thing is back to back debuff AoEs on the tank. Having survived that, then there is no other issue skill-wise. BH79 is much easier luckily, and is already easy with a sub 50 solo healer. So no issues there.

Jewyman - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Asked 3 questions, every single one was wrong. You did not know -interval, nor the effects of speed buffs on a set interval. As such, you don't know how fists operate. So your opinion was useless. And I screenshot lots when I'm drunk, so feel free to ticket what you want

-0.2 interval on 1.43 weapons translates into 0.5 attacks per sec (AKA 2 atks/s.)

1/1.43 = 0.669 (0.7 rounded), 1 / .7 minus the interval (.2) is .5 which is the 2 atk/s

(.5) * (1 - .25) = .375 rounded to .38.
1/.38 = 2.63 atks/s not your 2.86, mr. i know everything on attack speed.

your attack speed buff from demon spark = 25% man. bite me. i recall you saying 2.6 wasnt possible.

Aadi - Lost City

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

A lvl 48 cleric was solo-healing just fine, until 20-30 secs in an AoE 1 shot them. During this time they needed to purify twice, due to back to back debuffs on the 10 secs mag cast. It may be just me, but assuming a lvl 48 cleric is 'good' seems kinda presumptious. But as I was both the tank and cleric there, I guess I should say thanks? Still don't think it's deserved, seeing as the debuff is pretty dang obvious when the tank is targeted by the cleric.

Part of being a good cleric for the FB is being able to at least tank the AoE...not so much a skilled cleric there as a passable cleric for the instance. If the cleric can't survive the AoE, how does it heal? b:shocked

Telarith - Sanctuary

Jewyman - Sanctuary wrote: »

-0.2 interval on 1.43 weapons translates into 0.5 attacks per sec (AKA 2 atks/s.)

1/1.43 = 0.669 (0.7 rounded), 1 / .7 minus the interval is .5 which is the 2 atk/s

(.5) * (1 - .25) = .375 rounded to .38.
1/.38 = 2.63 atks/s not your 2.86, mr. i know everything on attack speed.

your attack speed buff from demon spark = 25% man. bite me. i recall you saying 2.6 wasnt possible.

Asked what effect 25% speed buff would have on -.2 interval fists, you answered 2 attacks per second. That was wrong.

And your proof for speed buff is wrong. Speed buffs use existing interval, and are rounded to the nearest -.05 interval effect before being added onto what your current interval is. As such, there is no 2.6 attacks per second, as I said. If you truly did know what you claim to, you would know it would be either 2.5 or 2.86, as I said. Thanks for proving my point though.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

I get the distinct impression people have ignored what I said.

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

ChaoticTears - Harshlands wrote: »

Tanking 69 doesnt mean anyone is a good BM .... just means they have a good Cleric.

Yes and no. Although it depends a lot on purify, since BMs have less HP they often have to manage keeping up with healing themselves. And being a tank is more than just spamming aggro skill, as I've noted. Sometimes other people DO steal aggro despite keeping up with skills, and it's up to the tank to watch so he can get aggro back. Thus why a lot of tanks fail - they're not keeping an eye on who has aggro and won't take it back. BMs have it harder depending on their builds since we can keep aggro up by damage and not via AGGRO SKILLS. We DO have Stream Strike but AFAIK it's bugged (correct me on that one, but I heard it was bugged, and never worked for me), and Alpha Male, which is a genie skill.

_River - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I get the distinct impression people have ignored what I said.

Not ignored, its just you have to take into consideration that BMs also have a bleed skill which isn't reduced in TT. Draw blood can act as a flesh ream and Stream Strike can act as another aggro keeper. Both of which I've seen Signako use to keep hate from an archer 4+ levels ahead of him. Even in TT he was successful in keeping hate from a 98 archer (sage), using skills. Weapons with provoke increase the threat level as well. Genie Alpha male is also a great way to keep aggro. All of which Signako has to help him tank better. Though he never has to use alpha male unless we're doing an RB run. And with his high damage, bleed, and stream strike, he doesn't often have to use his Starless Black Blade.

The only time I can see anyone pulling off a tank period (especially if spamming aggro keepers), is when they run outta mp or chi or both.

Jewyman - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Asked what effect 25% speed buff would have on -.2 interval fists, you answered 2 attacks per second. That was wrong.

And your proof for speed buff is wrong. Speed buffs use existing interval, and are rounded to the nearest -.05 interval effect before being added onto what your current interval is. As such, there is no 2.6 attacks per second, as I said. If you truly did know what you claim to, you would know it would be either 2.5 or 2.86, as I said. Thanks for proving my point though.

although i was unaware of the game bumping it like such, i did prove my point, the actual number is 2.6. my proof is flawless, the game using such a strange mechanic is the only difference here.

perhaps we can both learn something here. i learn the game rounds up in a strange way, and youre an idiot if you say my math is wrong P:.

Jewyman - Sanctuary

firstly, 1/.375 was 2.666666666666666, not .63, the .63 comes from the rounding midway through the problem (which one should avoid doing, in general)... nearest tenth would be 2.7 (rather than 2.6, if it were 2.63), nearest .05 would be 2.65 either way, or if its always rounding up, 2.7 again, but either way, its not 2.86 or anywhere near it

this games interval system is weiiirrrddd.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Jewyman - Sanctuary wrote: »

although i was unaware of the game bumping it like such, i did prove my point, the actual number is 2.6. my proof is flawless, the game using such a strange mechanic is the only difference here.

perhaps we can both learn something here. i learn the game rounds up in a strange way, and youre an idiot if you say my math is wrong P:.

Not quite. See, I said it was not possible to have 2.6 attacks per second in game. This is true. I also said you were wrong that it could be possible. This is true.

As for the math, I already did that months ago when I was young and stupid. The difference between my posts back then, and yours, was I had the opposite of your arrogance in falsely asserting you knew everything about speed mechanics; I had humility. I posted numbers off an assumption of how it worked using given text, and asked if anyone knew if it was different. If someone posted it was, I did not call them a liar; I asked if they could post proof of it so I could build my fist BM properly off of the right information. Ironic, considering how arrogant I am portrayed as.

EDIT: Read second post after I posted. It is round to the nearest -.05 interval. Not sure how much more blatant that can be. How rounding to the nearest -.025 can be construed as rounding to the nearest -.05, I have no idea. But drinking less than I do might be a good start.

ChaoticTears - Harshlands

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yes and no. Although it depends a lot on purify, since BMs have less HP they often have to manage keeping up with healing themselves. And being a tank is more than just spamming aggro skill, as I've noted. Sometimes other people DO steal aggro despite keeping up with skills, and it's up to the tank to watch so he can get aggro back. Thus why a lot of tanks fail - they're not keeping an eye on who has aggro and won't take it back. BMs have it harder depending on their builds since we can keep aggro up by damage and not via AGGRO SKILLS. We DO have Stream Strike but AFAIK it's bugged (correct me on that one, but I heard it was bugged, and never worked for me), and Alpha Male, which is a genie skill.

I totally agree, my post was more sarcastic, aimed at those BM's who see Polearm as a right of passage into being a good BM...

The " Iz tanked Polearm so iz rox" Bm's : ermm no you dont

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not ignored, its just you have to take into consideration that BMs also have a bleed skill which isn't reduced in TT. Draw blood can act as a flesh ream and Stream Strike can act as another aggro keeper.

How much aggro do these generate when compared to the Barbarian aggro skills? Honest question: I don't know the answer.

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Both of which I've seen Signako use to keep hate from an archer 4+ levels ahead of him. Even in TT he was successful in keeping hate from a 98 archer (sage), using skills. Weapons with provoke increase the threat level as well. Genie Alpha male is also a great way to keep aggro. All of which Signako has to help him tank better. Though he never has to use alpha male unless we're doing an RB run. And with his high damage, bleed, and stream strike, he doesn't often have to use his Starless Black Blade.

I'm confused. Who is Signako and how did this individual's name enter the conversation?

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only time I can see anyone pulling off a tank period (especially if spamming aggro keepers), is when they run outta mp or chi or both.

In TT, if the DDs are significantly higher than the tank, then the primary factor of keeping aggro comes down to skills, as opposed to damage out.

Unlike BH runs, where random squads are usually in the same level range, TT runs often comprise of members of large ranging levels. I often hear Barbarians state that they can hold aggro against DDs 10 or 15 levels higher than them. This is true; they can in TT runs. In these runs, the damage is reduced by 75%, so it's much easier to hold aggro for a tank that spams aggro skills.

This thread is about fist BMs holding aggro via damage output. For BH, this makes sense because squad are usually close to each other in level. For TT, if there is a large discrepancy in level and gear between the BM fist tank and the other DDs, then it may be desirable to find an skill-aggro tank.

Jewyman - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not quite. See, I said it was not possible to have 2.6 attacks per second in game. This is true. I also said you were wrong that it could be possible. This is true.

As for the math, I already did that months ago when I was young and stupid. The difference between my posts back then, and yours, was I had the opposite of your arrogance in falsely asserting you knew everything about speed mechanics; I had humility. I posted numbers off an assumption of how it worked using given text, and asked if anyone knew if it was different. If someone posted it was, I did not call them a liar; I asked if they could post proof of it so I could build my fist BM properly off of the right information. Ironic, considering how arrogant I am portrayed as.

EDIT: Read second post after I posted. It is round to the nearest -.05 interval. Not sure how much more blatant that can be. How rounding to the nearest -.025 can be construed as rounding to the nearest -.05, I have no idea. But drinking less than I do might be a good start.

Its funny how you say you have humility as youre still condescending as you type now. its totally strange for the game to do things the way it does, you'd need a 30% buff to hit an actual 2.86.

I'm confused. Who is Signako and how did this individual's name enter the conversation?

river's husband, she worships the ground he walks on.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In TT, if the DDs are significantly higher than the tank, then the primary factor of keeping aggro comes down to skills, as opposed to damage out.

Unlike BH runs, where random squads are usually in the same level range, TT runs often comprise of members of large ranging levels. I often hear Barbarians state that they can hold aggro against DDs 10 or 15 levels higher than them. This is true; they can in TT runs. In these runs, the damage is reduced by 75%, so it's much easier to hold aggro for a tank that spams aggro skills.

This thread is about fist BMs holding aggro via damage output. For BH, this makes sense because squad are usually close to each other in level. For TT, if there is a large discrepancy in level and gear between the BM fist tank and the other DDs, then it may be desirable to find an skill-aggro tank.

Pretty much, even in my OP I specifically mentioned BH for the tanking roles. Squad mode TT I plan on doing solo with my BM and 2nd account cleric, so I actually don't bother even thinking about. I'll be the only one there, aggro management won't matter. But if a fister DD out-damages the other DDs in FBs, they will still out-damage them in TT as well. Everyone gets the reduction. Having more aggro than needed doesn't really help if the aggro is consistently above the other DDs. So if in FB a fister can hold aggro when the DDs go all out in damage, they can do it in TT as well.

Jewyman - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its funny how you say you have humility as youre still condescending as you type now. its totally strange for the game to do things the way it does, you'd need a 30% buff to hit an actual 2.86.


river's husband, she worships the ground he walks on.

Humble when I am learning about something I don't know yet? Yes, if someone has more knowledge about something I do try to get what I can from them until I know it as well. If I already know it, and someone less knowledgeable tells me they are all-knowing about it, damn right I'm gonna be dismissive of them. They lied, and are arrogant. If they did know it, they wouldn't post such blatantly false information. Again, learn how speed buffs round (hint: they round interval, before the whole translating to attacks per second) and the numbers are pretty set. Sad part is, that info is actually in the archer section

_River - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How much aggro do these generate when compared to the Barbarian aggro skills? Honest question: I don't know the answer.

I'm confused. Who is Signako and how did this individual's name enter the conversation?

In TT, if the DDs are significantly higher than the tank, then the primary factor of keeping aggro comes down to skills, as opposed to damage out.

Unlike BH runs, where random squads are usually in the same level range, TT runs often comprise of members of large ranging levels. I often hear Barbarians state that they can hold aggro against DDs 10 or 15 levels higher than them. This is true; they can in TT runs. In these runs, the damage is reduced by 75%, so it's much easier to hold aggro for a tank that spams aggro skills.

This thread is about fist BMs holding aggro via damage output. For BH, this makes sense because squad are usually close to each other in level. For TT, if there is a large discrepancy in level and gear between the BM fist tank and the other DDs, then it may be desirable to find an aggro-skill tank.

Signako is my husband and I've been using him as my example for a BM tank in all of my posts ^^

I do not know statistics of how much aggro is generated per skill. Its hard to gauge it, however, a barb's roar is instant as is flesh ream but temporary thus the spamming of those skills. However, with a blademaster, its not instant, its just built up aggro each attack and skill over time.

ChaoticTears - Harshlands

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How much aggro do these generate when compared to the Barbarian aggro skills? Honest question: I don't know the answer.

.

Draw blood doesnt increase agro as such (like stream strike does or barb skills) but the DoT of it all adds to your agro score.

And Stream strike, unless you spam it it produces hardly any agro compared to a barbs

_River - Heavens Tear

Jewyman - Sanctuary wrote: »

river's husband, she worships the ground he walks on.

And you would be who to make such a comment?

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Jewyman - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its funny how you say you have humility as youre still condescending as you type now. its totally strange for the game to do things the way it does, you'd need a 30% buff to hit an actual 2.86.

It is not that strange. A reasonable conjecture would be that the game has all combat-related actions occur on time intervals of one twentieth of a second. In other words, 1/20 of a second is the finest granularity for combat-related actions.

Things like animating grass and some such would not fall under this granularity, as you would want at least 30 frames-per-second for animation (this was a common minimum goal for video games before computers became fast).

Jewyman - Sanctuary

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And you would be who to make such a comment?

is that necesarily a bad thing? its a sign of affection for a significant other, to hold them in high regards. if anything its sweet?

_River - Heavens Tear

Jewyman - Sanctuary wrote: »

is that necesarily a bad thing? its a sign of affection for a significant other, to hold them in high regards. if anything its sweet?

Worshipping the ground he walks on makes it seem as if I'm his servant. Of which I'm not. Love =/= worshipping. Thanks for the notice of how much I love him, however next time can you please word it differently?

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Again, learn how speed buffs round (hint: they round interval, before the whole translating to attacks per second) and the numbers are pretty set. Sad part is, that info is actually in the archer section

Sad?

I'm almost hurt =(

Telarith - Sanctuary

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sad?

I'm almost hurt =(

Meant for an archer not to know the formulas posted in their own forum. Personally, I love that post made in there, and have made a few posts in archer forum when a couple didn't understand how sharpy worked. It cleared things up, and had archers polish the formula up more for them, so that even more people understood how their class worked. Which is one thing I am always for. Past ignorance is passing, willingness to learn trumps everything. If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor.