Moron Barbs
Telarith - Sanctuary
Posts: 1,417 Arc User
Essentially, this post is a wake-up call to all groups forming for BH quests to take a good BM and just not invite barbs.
To date, BH69 is a solo cleric healable run with a 0 vit BM. I simply have Purify in my team chat command ready to speak, and purify it off by myself if I need to. I never lose aggro to any DD, no matter how much damage they put out. In short, I can DD and tank at the very same time.
The sad part is, people have this disbelief that a BM with 5K health can't tank BH 69. I know I can tank BH79 with a lvl 48 cleric only, so anyone who can't has a flat out craptastic cleric. But even with debuffs, only AoE 1 shots prevent a pre-lvl 50 cleric from solo healing a BM on this run.
The main thing is making sure a barb is not involved in any way, shape, fashion, or form. The mistaken belief that they are needed has skewed their thought process from knowing where they are needed, to the jack assed belief they are always needed. Krixxix and Fb29 were both wiz tanks, and many others are tanked better by others. But barbs believe stupidly they are best for all. Some are willing to take DD role; if they don't and you truly are pure fist, kick them. They obviously understand nothing.
This is not a hate post against all barbs, just the majority who are so terrible they don't even understand their damage formula, damage comparison, and ability to keep aggro from dropping to other DDs. Last run we had a barb who did not want me tanking even mini-bosses to speed things up. He dropped aggro to archer twice while talking about how good his axes were. Then he AFK'ed to eat dinner. During this time, I just went ahead and once again tanked both final bosses. No difficulty, no problem. In short, if a barb gives you **** about getting a free run, don't take them. They will likely **** it up compared to a decent fist BM. There, purged the hate demons that have built up every time I've done a run with a barb who won't go human form when told to.
To date, BH69 is a solo cleric healable run with a 0 vit BM. I simply have Purify in my team chat command ready to speak, and purify it off by myself if I need to. I never lose aggro to any DD, no matter how much damage they put out. In short, I can DD and tank at the very same time.
The sad part is, people have this disbelief that a BM with 5K health can't tank BH 69. I know I can tank BH79 with a lvl 48 cleric only, so anyone who can't has a flat out craptastic cleric. But even with debuffs, only AoE 1 shots prevent a pre-lvl 50 cleric from solo healing a BM on this run.
The main thing is making sure a barb is not involved in any way, shape, fashion, or form. The mistaken belief that they are needed has skewed their thought process from knowing where they are needed, to the jack assed belief they are always needed. Krixxix and Fb29 were both wiz tanks, and many others are tanked better by others. But barbs believe stupidly they are best for all. Some are willing to take DD role; if they don't and you truly are pure fist, kick them. They obviously understand nothing.
This is not a hate post against all barbs, just the majority who are so terrible they don't even understand their damage formula, damage comparison, and ability to keep aggro from dropping to other DDs. Last run we had a barb who did not want me tanking even mini-bosses to speed things up. He dropped aggro to archer twice while talking about how good his axes were. Then he AFK'ed to eat dinner. During this time, I just went ahead and once again tanked both final bosses. No difficulty, no problem. In short, if a barb gives you **** about getting a free run, don't take them. They will likely **** it up compared to a decent fist BM. There, purged the hate demons that have built up every time I've done a run with a barb who won't go human form when told to.
Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
Post edited by Telarith - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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Fist BM's, love them, great for long term DD~[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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The worst thing is many barbs these days will join your BH69 squad, ask if its wined and the share per person.
They then inform they want a free run, since they consider themselves completely essential for success of the run, and threaten to quit the squad if they are forced to pay.
Its getting out of hand lately. Stop allowing barbs free runs and feeding their overblown egos people.0 -
I agree that a pro BM is better than a moronic barb for a tank. It is totally possible for BMs to tank fb69, I have seen it done by a BM+one cleric combo. However, this doesnt mean that BMs are necessarily better than barbs at holding aggro. Unless the archers/wizards suck real bad or are way lower level than the BM, the chance of them stealing aggro is 99% (that is, if they applied the same DDing as they will with a fully capable barb).
fb/bh69 also relies on the cleric. I went with a 14k hp barb with extremely nice equipment and skills at tanking (aka spamming flesh ream for aggro, alacrity the spells, etc). However, he still died because the cleric (level 77) for god knows what reason was using a one star lvl 55 weapon with a non maxed IH.
Bottom line: It is a fact that a decent/experienced barb is a better tank than a decent/experienced BM. However, comparing a moronic barb to a "smart" BM, the BM wins.I was early taught to work as well as play,
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mebbe if the BM has alpha male genie skill, otherwise, no, they wont hold aggro unless squad waits till BM has solo DD'd like 15-20%...0
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Bad comparison.
In a case with a smart BM vs a smart Barb, the barb is normally better.
Yes, there are some bosses you really shouldn't let barb tank (on level FB29, Krixx, Mantavip, etc) but in most of those cases, an arcane user (aka not a BM) is probably the better tank.
That doesn't mean, however, that we should rely on a barb to tank everything if we can find a decent BM, or even an archer/wiz/cleric/veno depending on the boss. I remember doing a BH51 and cleric got killed by Fushma because he was being stupid. Our squad's fist BM, NOT the barb, went and took on Fushma and not only did he hold aggro from the 2 archers and a wiz in squad, but he also survived the entire thing. Without heals or a charm. While the cleric ressed and came back.
Same thing has happened for Farren/Zino with archers. Or the times I've done Drum and had barb ragequit over something stupid and the BM picked up the slack on tanking.
While, depending on my class, I'd normally rather have a barb tank... if I'm with a capable BM, or whatever class can handle tanking the monster I'm after, then there's no reason to bother with a barb.0 -
yeah i agree with tarloor.
however, i think that telarith is talking about Human form tanking barb. awfully common this days, dont know who went and told barbs that after getting calamity axes they can do enough damage to keep aggro from wizzes and archers 5 levels lower.in BH, this kind of barb loses aggro frequently, and then blames archer and wiz for not passing their attacks.
wizzes and archers can easily hit for over 7k at level 7x, whereas a barb in human form with calamity axes (not taking into account shards and refinements) can normal hit for 2k, berserk for 3-4k, crit for 5k, and crit berserk for 11k.
its much more quicker for barb to tiger form, keep aggro with flesh realm and roar, and have 2 constant DDs of 7k, than to do odd 2-11k damage with 2 DD doing 7k every 4 or 5 seconds so that human form barb doesnt lose aggro. Barbs may have strongest AoE, but in BH you cant use that as a way to keep aggro. so barbs can't be DDtanks. barbs are tanks, tanking is done in tiger form. end of story.0 -
Although BM tanks are at times workable as barb tanks, I have to say I would prefer a barb in most circumstances.
I have solo healed both BMs and barbs for BH69, so I know both are possible. However, a barb unless a BM has much better gear has higher HP, which makes him less likely to die. A bit of lag on a low 8x BM will cause them to drop faster than fast if I can't purify fast enough. A barb, even uncharmed, I have a bit of an HP buffer. b:surrender
tl;dr, barbs aren't necessary but preferred.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Yea, barbs are getting a bit ego-ish now, even I don't make a big fuss about pay. I dont care about racking up a repair bill. You are a Barb, you are suppose to have an emergency fund for repairs!!! lololol
But yea, a smart barb vs a smart BM = Smart Barb will win as "tank" just because of HP and/or aggro control etc. etc.
Also, I've met barbs 70+ who cant tank well...
(oracle noobs probably)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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i dont care who the tank is as long as they stay alive and can keep good aggro.... hell we had a cleric (not me) tank a boss in FB99 once during a near wipe till the finish.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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Yes any Bm can tank, but where barbs have the edge is not so much in being able to hold the agro ( seen 90+ archers, wizzies rip it straight off a barb ) its their ability to grad the agro straight back.0
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AuroraXT - Sanctuary wrote: »The worst thing is many barbs these days will join your BH69 squad, ask if its wined and the share per person.
They then inform they want a free run, since they consider themselves completely essential for success of the run, and threaten to quit the squad if they are forced to pay.
Its getting out of hand lately. Stop allowing barbs free runs and feeding their overblown egos people.
Try paying a barbs repair bill after these runs...the only damage DD's have to their gear is to their weapon barbs take dmg to every item they are wearing so a little bit of slack should be given to a barb in that respect
back to OP as far as a barb always being the right class for the job thats a big NO there are bosses that do insane amts of dmg to barb but do very little to other classes I gladly accept this and willingly assume the DD role if given the opportunity sadly because barbs Dmg output is nerfed until lvl 92 when they can get axe and hammer mastery not many people want a barb in the squad for the role of DD simply because they do at best 1/4 the amt of dmg of any other class.0 -
I guess this should have a second part question:
Of all the people posting here, how many know both the physical damage formula, and the effects of -interval coupled with speed buffs. If no one knows all of this, they really shouldn't be posting, honestly.
With lvl 70 mold fists, I will steal aggro a time or two if I don't stop attacking now and then. Now, the walking waste would say it's your job as DD to stop attacking if you would steal aggro. Now the thing is, they are walking waste because they can't think of more things than one at a time.
Tanking is a matter of aggro management. This is from skills generating aggro, or damage. The combination of the two is how well a tank can manage aggro.
Now, if with lvl 70 claws I steal aggro, then the arguement of other DDs stealing aggro (archer/wizard) is pure garbage. Because I have already established a damage barrier the tank is capable of holding with sub-rate gear. So no more stupid in that direction.
Tanking is also about one thing: surviving. Even crappy aggro management can succeed if the tank can survive. And I have tanked a few BH69s with low lvl 8X single clerics in the squad no problem; the good ones don't even have my charm tick. Now if the cleric is bad or has an internet problem, barb might be better. Or a better cleric or cleric with better internet connection, depends how hard up the group is.
So, the good fist BM can out-tank a good barb with sub-rate gear. Does anyone here; again, only people who actually understand physical damage formula coupled with -interval and speed buffs, actually believe a great barb will hold aggro better than a fist BM? Of course not. They have less crit, less damage, and even their aggro skills will not generate enough hate to out-do a fist BMs at grade, at level gear. Nor will an archer or wizard. Maybe if the wizard does their 6 sec kill spike before BM establishes aggro, but that falls under the duh category. Once established, it doesn't get lost with a few seconds lead after demon sparking. Even to demon archers.
So some of these posts I already know are from lack of knowledge, since if they did know they wouldn't post what they did. The write-ups, math, and mechanics have already been posted on BM section.
So, for people who actually can answer what effect a set -interval does coupled with a speed buff on XXX damage fists, feel free to post here. If you don't know it, please find string to play with.
NOTE: Posting is always much more fun when 3 sheets to the wind
Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
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FooFooKity - Heavens Tear wrote: »Try paying a barbs repair bill after these runs...the only damage DD's have to their gear is to their weapon barbs take dmg to every item they are wearing so a little bit of slack should be given to a barb in that respect
back to OP as far as a barb always being the right class for the job thats a big NO there are bosses that do insane amts of dmg to barb but do very little to other classes I gladly accept this and willingly assume the DD role if given the opportunity sadly because barbs Dmg output is nerfed until lvl 92 when they can get axe and hammer mastery not many people want a barb in the squad for the role of DD simply because they do at best 1/4 the amt of dmg of any other class.
This is why Herc venos are winners!!b:thanks
BH69, 79, 89 arent that expensive for Barbs O.o
maybe like 20K-30K repair bill a run, but usually drops I get can help with repairs, or better yet, farm mats for a bit, sell, get like 40K, there you go, repair bill solved. b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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FooFooKity - Heavens Tear wrote: »Try paying a barbs repair bill after these runs...the only damage DD's have to their gear is to their weapon barbs take dmg to every item they are wearing so a little bit of slack should be given to a barb in that respect
Well unless a Barbs repair bill is calculated differant than a BM's then the cost of it is nowhere near the cost of their wine share.
So they are asking for a free 60k+ BH for a 10k-20k repair bill0 -
FooFooKity - Heavens Tear wrote: »Try paying a barbs repair bill after these runs...the only damage DD's have to their gear is to their weapon barbs take dmg to every item they are wearing so a little bit of slack should be given to a barb in that respect.
So you justify not paying for a run, making everyone pay more, due to a 20k repair bill?
I am amazed this even comes into the argument. How long does it take you to grind 20k?0 -
roflcakes? clerics keep your HP from ticking MOST of the time, so assuming you just need to pot your mp... and with charms costing 1.6M at the least we use about 300k-400k per runs depending but on average. Wheres our slack and respect. Not even the TT repairs of barbs cost that much. Sry barbs are not special nor are they expensive. As for being charmless, not really recommended in places like fb99s....muchless warsong -_-FooFooKity - Heavens Tear wrote: »Try paying a barbs repair bill after these runs...the only damage DD's have to their gear is to their weapon barbs take dmg to every item they are wearing so a little bit of slack should be given to a barb in that respect
Sometimes i wonder if its the rebirth quests thats feeding them....AuroraXT - Sanctuary wrote: »The worst thing is many barbs these days will join your BH69 squad, ask if its wined and the share per person.
They then inform they want a free run, since they consider themselves completely essential for success of the run, and threaten to quit the squad if they are forced to pay.
Its getting out of hand lately. Stop allowing barbs free runs and feeding their overblown egos people.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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FooFooKity - Heavens Tear wrote: »Try paying a barbs repair bill after these runs...the only damage DD's have to their gear is to their weapon barbs take dmg to every item they are wearing so a little bit of slack should be given to a barb in that respect.
Ever think of how much a GOOD Cleric loses in pots or MP charms if she's spamhealing you to stop your charm from ticking?
How about the veno? Lost loyalty on their legendaries? I have to admit, though, venos take the least repair/cost (as long as they don't have an MP charm-- 'cause even one revive of a pet can tick the charm.)
Wizzies and Archers need MP and/or Arrows to do damage.
BMs-- if they tank, they have the same repair as you. And either way-- they're damage control. They take damage, charms might tick, cleaning up any messes that might happen.
EVERYONE. Has a cost. Stop thinking you're special just because your cost is more obvious than theirs.0 -
AuroraXT - Sanctuary wrote: »So you justify not paying for a run, making everyone pay more, due to a 20k repair bill?
I am amazed this even comes into the argument. How long does it take you to grind 20k?
Not saying barbs should get "free" BH runs by no means and any barb who thinks they should is well full of himself an needs a reality check just simply putting it out there that by comparison in a normal BH no other class is going to have a repair bill as high as the tank whether it is a barb or a bm0 -
ill pay for your repair bill in full. You pay my charm bill. good?FooFooKity - Heavens Tear wrote: »Not saying barbs should get "free" BH runs by no means and any barb who thinks they should is well full of himself an needs a reality check just simply putting it out there that by comparison in a normal BH no other class is going to have a repair bill as high as the tank whether it is a barb or a bm[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »roflcakes? clerics keep your HP from ticking MOST of the time, so assuming you just need to pot your mp... and with charms costing 1.6M at the least we use about 300k-400k per runs depending but on average. Wheres our slack and respect. Not even the TT repairs of barbs cost that much. Sry barbs are not special nor are they expensive. As for being charmless, not really recommended in places like fb99s....muchless warsong -_-
Sometimes i wonder if its the rebirth quests thats feeding them....
Yea, clerics are just as bad as barbs in terms of free BHs runs. Ive had clerics ragebearb:angry on our squad because it isnt free.
So it isnt just barbs lolb:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yea, clerics are just as bad as barbs in terms of free BHs runs. Ive had clerics ragebearb:angry on our squad because it isnt free.
So it isnt just barbs lolb:cute
kick them. seriously[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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Ok Repairs bills lets go into this MP charm has what 900k on it to start and each tick is roughly 2k for a cleric my lvl so thats 450 ticks till the charm is gone so for each tick it costs assuming a charm is 1.5 mill would be about 3k per tick and im pretty sure a clerics charm will tick more then 10 times in a BH 69 squad so thats more then 30k Cost and i mean this cost could be taken from any other class so yeah Barbs no special treatment for u from me b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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charm costs shouldnt be factored into the equation charms are optional more for convenience than necessity repairs by any class tanking a boss are not optional,they are mandatory. so for everyone screaming about charm ticks my advise is when the one u are wearing ticks away dont put on another one, learn to use in-game apoth stuff that is...FREE. Repair bills of any class tanking that boss for u, you know the one u cant tank will never be free.0
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Dammit why are so many barbs acting like that?! Giving the rest of us a bad nameb:angry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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FooFooKity - Heavens Tear wrote: »charm costs shouldnt be factored into the equation charms are optional more for convenience than necessity repairs by any class tanking a boss are not optional,they are mandatory. so for everyone screaming about charm ticks my advise is when the one u are wearing ticks away dont put on another one, learn to use in-game apoth stuff that is...FREE. Repair bills of any class tanking that boss for u, you know the one u cant tank will never be free.
Let me note how they are not saying what charms cost in real money, they are saying what charms cost in game coin. So if it wasn't a ton of money in charm it would be a ton of money into really good MP pots I would think; MP pots that have a long cool down and can be more of a pain than a 5 second charm refresh.
EDIT: And clerics may have a lot of MP but it's like a barbs life, it won't last until the end of a boss all on it's own.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Crazydan - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ok Repairs bills lets go into this MP charm has what 900k on it to start and each tick is roughly 2k for a cleric my lvl so thats 450 ticks till the charm is gone so for each tick it costs assuming a charm is 1.5 mill would be about 3k per tick and im pretty sure a clerics charm will tick more then 10 times in a BH 69 squad so thats more then 30k Cost and i mean this cost could be taken from any other class so yeah Barbs no special treatment for u from me b:cute
...I still don't get the appeal of MP charms when there's so much MP foodstuffs floating around. I seldom use that much in Herbs on a BAD run. >_<0 -
Ok my simple question is who the hell cares if it cost u 30k to do a BH or whatever i mean come on i go through TTs and rush i freaking tank Wurlord if the barb is too worried about repairs man i freaking lure the bosses in FB 69 because venos dont want to lose GS from dying. So u know what everyone can stop crying about costs to do stuff becuase i mean come on its not much different from everyone else. And also Apo stuff like the mana regen doesnt work well on AoE bosses cause it puts u in Combat mode so the effects kinda go Bye bye and BB need some sort of Event pot or charm so dont make it like oh pop one pot and no need for any sort of pots all classes have their costs and risks but when u get barbs that dont reapir thier gear often and then after a TT reapirs and like OMG i have 100k reapir bill im like i will too if i go 3 or 4 instance runs without reapiring its all about shutting up because everyone has extra costs to their own class[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Shouldn't clerics use MP food to keep down costs?
The event food you can make from tokens gives 5000MP and the cost is 1.2k.
Between that and sparking you can get through a TT relatively cheaply.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Shouldn't clerics use MP food to keep down costs?
The event food you can make from tokens gives 5000MP and the cost is 1.2k.
Between that and sparking you can get through a TT relatively cheaply.
Tokens won't be around forever, and they weren't around before. For right now it's cheap, but what about after...? And when the token supply is completely gone?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Aadi - Lost City wrote: »Tokens won't be around forever, and they weren't around before. For right now it's cheap, but what about after...? And when the token supply is completely gone?
For some odd reason, I have a feeling tokens are not going to run out any time soon. And even if they do run low....monthly anniversary?I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0
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