PWI is NOT dead...Nor Dying..

eatwithspoons · September 2009

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry Spoons, but for some of us football is as important a subject as religion is for other people (i'm latin american) i'll drop the subject on my end.

religious discussions aren't allowed on the forums either b:chuckle I'm not stopping you from continuing your discussion in Off Topic, just not on this thread

Filet - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Here's the reason^

"I and my friends should be the *only* ones to have this gear, 'cause we're 133t and much better than you. You are all n00bs, and you don't deserve a .02% chance at getting a awesome, bangin' weapon like that. *You* will never see a weapon like that, and that's the way it should always be."

Before I read this one, I thought the HighLevel drops were a bad thing, but that the angst would pass. Now I've changed my mind.

You're wrong about "seeming" condescending - you are. I can't think of a better reason on earth to hand out ridiculously high weapons to random strangers than to irritate the **** out of self-righteous high-level players.

Thanks for helping me to see the light.

RedMenace

\good job getting us on your side here

Most high levels players aren't condescending. I imagine you haven't ran Lunar Glade for mats (neither have I), but that definitely takes time. Imagine if you worked hard to get to level 70, grinding tediously every day. Then suddenly a cash shop item was introduced that allowed you to instantly jump from level 1 to 70 when it's opened. Wouldn't you feel like your hard work was put to waste? The majority of people don't want to hog the high level gear for themselves, it's the satisfaction of knowing that they worked for it and they deserve it. When random players can achieve with 20 bucks what you worked hard for in half a year's time you'd feel ripped off. Obviously if you haven't worked for lunar weapons you can't know what it feels like to see other players fly by your hard work with a bit of cash. If you don't agree with their viewpoint, then at least keep it to yourself. At least try to understand how many high level players feel about having their hard work seem meaningless.

HatedSoul - Sanctuary · September 2009

ok ok GM sorry about my post that assosiated to sports or the ohter kinda smimular game type out there somewhere in this universe >> b:angry ...
gah ... so ill keep it reall then ...

is there an expansion lvl after 105?>? GM?>??? this normal question pls tell me

eatwithspoons · September 2009

HatedSoul - Sanctuary wrote: »

ok ok GM sorry about my post that assosiated to sports or the ohter kinda smimular game type out there somewhere in this universe >> b:angry ...
gah ... so ill keep it reall then ...

is there an expansion lvl after 105?>? GM?>??? this normal question pls tell me

I would assume so, considering the most recent news on the Rising Tide. That's not an official confirmation though, just what could be inferred

Bobbyjoe - Sanctuary · September 2009

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »

i thought professional teams have a salary cap?

Depends on sport. Baseball and up till recently hockey didnt/dont have a salary cap.

HatedSoul - Sanctuary · September 2009

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WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · September 2009

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Something i learned from this debacle is no matter how good a f2p game begins,(and pwi began good it has to be said)((infact i don't see why they started with all these sales i honestly thought they were doing well in revenue))it will end with costing more than a p2p just to compete with other cash shoppers

I'll disagree with you there. When I first started a year ago there were only a few players who spent their college tuition on Dragon Orbs and such, and as a result, yes, they were 1337, but everybody else competed just fine.

Overall, though, the cash shop had a very strong bias towards vanity and convenience. To really improve your character, you had to spend time in-game.

However, once the sales started it created an atmosphere of keeping-up-with-the-Joneses. Instead of most people thinking you'd be crazy to spend $400 to get some silly in-game item, the attitude shifted to you'd be crazy not to save $200 by getting the item this week during the sale. Plus, items became easily available through the cash shop that normally would have been ultra rare. Remember how a Blessing of Christmas used to be a sign of having completed a really special, one-time-only, difficult quest? Now it just means you spent the extra $5.

The focus of the cash shop has clearly shifted towards being the #1 way to improve your character, period.

So basically, PWI did have the formula of a f2p where you really didn't have to pay-to-win. They could have stayed that way, but the quick revenue of all the sales changed that.

Having said all that, though, I find I can still compete by playing the markets and buying Gold instead of paying real money, but that's a zero sum game. I can do it only because I'm in a minority, but the game lives or dies by how the majority play.

eatwithspoons · September 2009

HatedSoul - Sanctuary wrote: »

so0 i was right its just here to close and lock ... not to answer ... i starting to doubt if i wanna play on ... moral stands high for me ... answers i get here are bogus i just ask in intrest see what i get of professional game staff mmm im doubtingb:angryb:bye

I am not going to argue with you, I will simple reiterate this: unless something is 100% confirmed I cannot make an official statement about it, that goes for expansions too

HatedSoul - Sanctuary · September 2009

" just a lil tho >.> hehe

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary · September 2009

HatedSoul - Sanctuary wrote: »

so0 i was right its just here to close and lock ... not to answer ... i starting to doubt if i wanna play on ... moral stands high for me ... answers i get here are bogus i just ask in intrest see what i get of professional game staff mmm im doubtingb:angryb:bye

you_are_being_monitored_office_humor_sticker-p217343083573543287tdcj_210.jpg

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Most high levels players aren't condescending. I imagine you haven't ran Lunar Glade for mats (neither have I), but that definitely takes time. Imagine if you worked hard to get to level 70, grinding tediously every day. Then suddenly a cash shop item was introduced that allowed you to instantly jump from level 1 to 70 when it's opened. Wouldn't you feel like your hard work was put to waste? The majority of people don't want to hog the high level gear for themselves, it's the satisfaction of knowing that they worked for it and they deserve it. When random players can achieve with 20 bucks what you worked hard for in half a year's time you'd feel ripped off. Obviously if you haven't worked for lunar weapons you can't know what it feels like to see other players fly by your hard work with a bit of cash. If you don't agree with their viewpoint, then at least keep it to yourself. At least try to understand how many high level players feel about having their hard work seem meaningless.

I never claimed all high-levels are condescending. But I've witnessed a few here, and don't understand the attitude.

But you see, this is the root of what I'm trying to say.

Many here are gaugeing their sucesses on having something someone else *doesn't* have - and not considering "working hard for something really difficult and accomplishing something impressive for yourself" to be sufficent.

If someone else shortcuts their way to this, that's their loss. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing because you did it yourself, not because you're the only one to get there.

Once Everest was climbed (clumb?) why did anyone try to climb it afterwards? It had been done already - what makes the "Second person to climb Everest" want to go there?

And if some multi-millionaire goob charters a helicopter to get him 3/4 up the mountain, and has a group of 8 people help him climb, and does it with oxygen, and gets there too - does that make you feel cheated? Does that somehow lessen what you have done?

Or does that make him a loser - unwilling to put in the effort to do it as you have done?

So he's a loser. That's his issue. Why should that lessen your accomplishments?

If you don't agree with their viewpoint, then at least keep it to yourself.

Now that's just off the hook. My opinions aren't valid because they're not yours? I'm discussing this in good faith here.

RedMenace
\just because I haven't run Lunar doesnt mean I don't know what it's like to work hard for something
\\don't want a *******-contest here, there's no point
\\\I'm not 14, I actually *have* accomplished hard things as well
\\\\not 14, but Daughter is

Falls - Sanctuary · September 2009

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I never claimed all high-levels are condescending. But I've witnessed a few here, and don't understand the attitude.

But you see, this is the root of what I'm trying to say.

Many here are gaugeing their sucesses on having something someone else *doesn't* have - and not considering "working hard for something really difficult and accomplishing something impressive for yourself" to be sufficent.

If someone else shortcuts their way to this, that's their loss. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing because you did it yourself, not because you're the only one to get there.

Once Everest was climbed (clumb?) why did anyone try to climb it afterwards? It had been done already - what makes the "Second person to climb Everest" want to go there?

And if some multi-millionaire goob charters a helicopter to get him 3/4 up the mountain, and has a group of 8 people help him climb, and does it with oxygen, and gets there too - does that make you feel cheated? Does that somehow lessen what you have done?

Or does that make him a loser - unwilling to put in the effort to do it as you have done?

So he's a loser. That's his issue. Why should that lessen your accomplishments?

If you don't agree with their viewpoint, then at least keep it to yourself.

Now that's just off the hook. My opinions aren't valid because they're not yours? I'm discussing this in good faith here.

RedMenace
\just because I haven't run Lunar doesnt mean I don't know what it's like to work hard for something
\\don't want a *******-contest here, there's no point
\\\I'm not 14, I actually *have* accomplished hard things as well
\\\\not 14, but Daughter is

That is true as far as PvE goes, but personally, my main if not only source of fun in this game was PvP and TW. The mountain climbing analogy no longer applies, unless the first one to the top gets to fire a cruise missile at the loser xD. Yes, the CSer always has an advantage, but IMO the advantage just became insurmountable.

I am in the big red faction of my server. For the first time since January or so, no one attacked us, and we will probably steamroll the one land we attacked, mainly because it seems the competition just quit. Not really my brand of fun.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so is that what u want ? turn the game so most players are massive cash shop users ? and who wins after that ? wallet races ? o.o

Well this game isnt community service or anything for sure. Its only gonna turn into wallet races for the few 5% or so who have that excess money to spend. Not unless there are high lvl nubs that tell newbies that you just HAVE to get these high gears. Be versatile in gear. My most-of-the-time money-less friend showed me how to gear up without spending uber amounts. Try things out of the norm and youll find some good discoverys.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · September 2009

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I never claimed all high-levels are condescending. But I've witnessed a few here, and don't understand the attitude.

But you see, this is the root of what I'm trying to say.

Many here are gaugeing their sucesses on having something someone else *doesn't* have - and not considering "working hard for something really difficult and accomplishing something impressive for yourself" to be sufficent.

If someone else shortcuts their way to this, that's their loss. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing because you did it yourself, not because you're the only one to get there.

Once Everest was climbed (clumb?) why did anyone try to climb it afterwards? It had been done already - what makes the "Second person to climb Everest" want to go there?

And if some multi-millionaire goob charters a helicopter to get him 3/4 up the mountain, and has a group of 8 people help him climb, and does it with oxygen, and gets there too - does that make you feel cheated? Does that somehow lessen what you have done?

Or does that make him a loser - unwilling to put in the effort to do it as you have done?

So he's a loser. That's his issue. Why should that lessen your accomplishments?

If you don't agree with their viewpoint, then at least keep it to yourself.

Now that's just off the hook. My opinions aren't valid because they're not yours? I'm discussing this in good faith here.

RedMenace
\just because I haven't run Lunar doesnt mean I don't know what it's like to work hard for something
\\don't want a *******-contest here, there's no point
\\\I'm not 14, I actually *have* accomplished hard things as well
\\\\not 14, but Daughter is

If you cheat your way up a mountain your achievement won't be recognized by your peers (other mountain climbers) or their organizations. You won't be eligible to hold records, join clubs and you will be rejected by society as a fraud. Climbing Everest is no easy feat, even millionares that pay for a "tour" have to prepare for a couple of years and prove they're a strong enough climber before even the Pakistani or Chinese government (depends on route) will allow them to set foot on the mountain.

It's really not a good analogy, much like any everest climber, very few of us will be the first to reach a certain level or complete any instance. Yes, we do it for ourselves, but that doesn't mean we don't appreciate perks gained along the way. Mount Elbrus is considered the highest mountain in Europe and amongst certain routes a very difficult climb. Now they've put up climbing chairs, snowmobiles and a guided tour to the summit. Do you think the tourists should get the same perks that the pro climbers? That they should be paid by sponsors, featured on magazine articles, and be recognized by the climbing comunity? Cuz that would be a more correct comparison...

Falls - Sanctuary · September 2009

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you cheat your way up a mountain your achievement won't be recognized by your peers (other mountain climbers) or their organizations. You won't be eligible to hold records, join clubs and you will be rejected by society as a fraud. Climbing Everest is no easy feat, even millionares that pay for a "tour" have to prepare for a couple of years and prove they're a strong enough climber before even the Pakistani or Chinese government (depends on route) will allow them to set foot on the mountain.

It's really not a good analogy, much like any everest climber, very few of us will be the first to reach a certain level or complete any instance. Yes, we do it for ourselves, but that doesn't mean we don't appreciate perks gained along the way. Mount Elbrus is considered the highest mountain in Europe and amongst certain routes a very difficult climb. Now they've put up climbing chairs, snowmobiles and a guided tour to the summit. Do you think the tourists should get the same perks that the pro climbers? That they should be paid by sponsors, featured on magazine articles, and be recognized by the climbing comunity? Cuz that would be a more correct comparison...

The mountain climbing analogy is fine, so long as your goal in the game is not competitive, rather you just wish to enjoy the ride. But for many players that is not the case.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary · September 2009

Lol, PWI is dying, long-time players leaving left and right.b:chuckle

Dianocus - Sanctuary · September 2009

PWI is dying more slowly each day even before this event. Now that you have to "PAY" to enjoy the game or at least be on par with other players, PWI's game life is diminishing even faster.

Foxx - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Heres my take...
by handing out lunar weapons as lottery prizes they ave devaulued their own game.
The first people to get these weapons ust have been oh wow, but as more and more of them appear from just lucky rolls, the "value" of them diminshes.

The ultimate level this goes to is where people are competing against each other on the bases of who is the luckiest in the lottery, and Im sure a lot of people in the future simply wont be prepared for for over the thousands of dollars cash once that happens.

Maybe that wasnt explained as best as it could be. Its the difficulty and skill required in getting these items that akes them so valuable. Take that away and your take away their value.

If they continue with these types of events it will kust turn into a competiton of who can spend the most money and there will be a diminishing playerbase that will bother with it.

In short I think PWE are mortgaging the long term value of this game for short term profits.

Im not leaving, i will adapt, but it largely from lack of sutable alternative.

Untamedchaos - Sanctuary · September 2009

Whiney little QQers leaving the game over nothing rofl
Gotta love it

Mothergoose - Sanctuary · September 2009

The real players are leaving, leaving behind nooby cashshop-only players who don't know how to run lunar, frost, or even TT.b:chuckle

Dustinmurphy - Harshlands · September 2009

after reading so many post's and just saying **** it let me share some info
this winter were expecting the map to change since the new races land is at the end of dreamweaver port then expect the map to change a lot also lvl cap will prob be raised.
with that being said the exp needed will be lowered also without cash shoppers paying for stuff ect then we wouldn't be getting anything they would do it like a other game raise the lvl cap to 180 make it imposable to get to, that means you wouldn't expect new patch's and no Expansions so stop biotching about cash shop users getting better end game items then you becaz this so called end game items won't be the same after this winter probable so get over it grow up it's a game if it affect's you that much then leave don't come back don't let the door hit you on the way out.
also stop mixing cyber world with the reality for those who take games to seriously.

Rikuza - Heavens Tear · September 2009

I understand people are annoyed due to gear being handed over,HOWEVER:

Should I care if someone ends up spending hundreds of dolars on the game just to get a weapon you can get for free with work? Pitiful to me tis be. Its hard,its nerve grinding,it takes time,but you CAN get the things for free.

Thus I find it pitiful,those people who use real life money by the hundreds just to get a pile of fancy pixels there too lazy to get themselves.

They choose to spend tons of money on the game,thats there problem.

Those who dont use tons of money end up with more money in RL for more important things to use this way.
Someone gets a bigger paycheck? Can we do anything bout it here? No.

Someone should make the developers gain equitment the traditional way and see how they like it. Would teach em a lesson or two,see do they understand.

Time Vs Money

Ps -> I am not a major cashshopper,so dont steal my cookies.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · September 2009

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

The mountain climbing analogy is fine, so long as your goal in the game is not competitive, rather you just wish to enjoy the ride. But for many players that is not the case.

Mountain Climbing is competitive, just enjoying the ride should be compared to strolling around the park and calling it "hiking" and we were discussing Everest btw, people die very year climbing it and those who do succeed often climb down with pretty stuff like frostbitten limbs and pulmonary edema... No one goes all the way up there just to "enjoy the ride"

Untamedchaos - Sanctuary wrote: »

Whiney little QQers leaving the game over nothing rofl
Gotta love it

ofc this situation wouldn't affect the mediocre...

Devoted - Lost City · September 2009

Untamedchaos - Sanctuary wrote: »

Whiney little QQers leaving the game over nothing rofl
Gotta love it

Server: Sanctuary
Level: 86
Factor: non

MANray_ - Sanctuary · September 2009

Dustinmurphy - Harshlands wrote: »

after reading so many post's and just saying **** it let me share some info
this winter were expecting the map to change since the new races land is at the end of dreamweaver port then expect the map to change a lot also lvl cap will prob be raised.
with that being said the exp needed will be lowered also without cash shoppers paying for stuff ect then we wouldn't be getting anything they would do it like a other game raise the lvl cap to 180 make it imposable to get to, that means you wouldn't expect new patch's and no Expansions so stop biotching about cash shop users getting better end game items then you becaz this so called end game items won't be the same after this winter probable so get over it grow up it's a game if it affect's you that much then leave don't come back don't let the door hit you on the way out.
also stop mixing cyber world with the reality for those who take games to seriously.

How positively enlightening, game's getting nerfed so we shouldn't worry about people buying their way through it...

And no one's jumping off a cliff here, clearly this game is something people dedicate an important part of their day throughout months so i'ts only natural that you become somewhat upset you won't be able to continue to do so cuz you can't stomach that the rules have to be changed to acomodate people with neither dedication nor skill.

BordoRose - Sanctuary · September 2009

So many posts here oO One of you saying "PWI id dead! I'm quiting!" other "PWI is alive". What can I say? It's true that it's not fair that 30lv noob get high and very good weapons\armors\gems only cause ask parents to buy ton of zens. And then show how "super" he's. I'm not too high lv but I can say that I farmed all my set and weapon in TT and it was hard and long way.
I think I ll never get lunar weapon but I know (read your posts) that is **** more hard than TT 2-2.
But from other side.. I'm happy that my 89lv friend get lunar from box. He made hard way to get that lvl and all his stuff and I think it's very good (somehow) gift for him. (go go petro! xD)

PWI dying? Neah... i think always will be some crazy ppl who will play that game. (new map in winter ftw!) New high lv will replace old high lv. (and maybe map ll change :O move new factions your lazy asses! lolz)

(srrr.... english isn't good >< )

KatieMorgan - Sanctuary · September 2009

the way i see it, there are basically two main types of players in this game. for lack of a better description i will call them goal-oriented players and community-oriented players. sure, a lot of people are a mix of the two, but generally i believe players will tend to skew more towards one side or the other.

goal-oriented players play the game with specific achievements in mind, whether it be to level as high as they can, get the best gear they can in the game, win the most territories in TW, get the most kills in PK, etc.

community-oriented players like the social aspects of the game, and are less concerned about achieving specific targets or milestones. these players enjoy the parts of the game such as chatting, hanging out with friends, meeting new people, trying new fashions, making game videos, etc.

obviously most people will not be 100% one or the other, and may enjoy aspects of both, but i feel that if you think about it you will fall more into one of these categories than another (neither of which is better than the other).

now what PW has essentially done with this new pack release is completely alienate the entire goal-oriented player base, as the majority of the goals they were striving to achieve have now all but lost their meaning. i personally belong to this category of players, so i understand first-hand the reasons why a large percentage of my friends are quitting the game. it also makes sense that the majority of higher-level players in this game tend to belong to this category of players, because they have put more priority into achieving goals such as leveling rather than doing other things in the game. that is why i am seeing a split in the forums between some lower-level community-oriented players who don't understand all the QQing from higher-levels, and some higher-level players who don't understand why these community-oriented players wouldn't agree that the game has been ruined.

now addressing the mountain-climbing analogy that was brought up, i can tell you as a goal-oriented player my viewpoint so that the community-oriented players might understand better the way we look at it. imagine there was a mountain that i had a goal of climbing because i believed there was a beautiful view up there, and i started training for this very difficult climb. then one day all of a sudden they install a tram that can take anyone to the top for $20. sure, i could still go through with it and climb to the top myself and know to myself that i achieved that goal. also, if i climbed to the top with all my mountaineering gear and saw a whole bunch of paid tourists hanging out up there sipping martinis, that wouldn't be what really bothers me (as some seem to think this is the main problem). what the real issue is is that i would lose a tremendous amount of motivation to actually go through with climbing this particular mountain, when there is a much easier way to get up there. since i myself could just pay $20 to go to the top of this mountain, climbing it has lost a lot of its luster. i would probably rather go find a different mountain to climb instead.

so in my own personal case, the majority of the goals i was trying to achieve in PW are now kinda moot. i'm just gonna stick around a little while longer to finish up a few last things i wanted to do, and then i'll probably be gone too. it was great playing and hanging out with those of you i had the pleasure of meeting. see y'all in another life b:victoryb:thanksb:bye

Dustinmurphy - Harshlands · September 2009

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

How positively enlightening, game's getting nerfed so we shouldn't worry about people buying their way through it...

And no one's jumping off a cliff here, clearly this game is something people dedicate an important part of their day throughout months so i'ts only natural that you become somewhat upset you won't be able to continue to do so cuz you can't stomach that the rules have to be changed to acomodate people with neither dedication nor skill.

like you are doing right now you can't stomach the changes then gtfo it's a game thats all. ppl who think it's something important in there daily life have no life at all.
ppl who take this game serious say negative things if a game changes makes me laugh but what do i expect im a teen so are most of the ppl who plays this game but i can clearly say that they act like little kids they need to experience the real world and not the cyber eworld or else they will only fail in life and keep running to a game to be something becaz they can't be anything in the real world so that's all I can say. also for the ppl who leave this game don't come back.

Falls - Sanctuary · September 2009

Dustinmurphy - Harshlands wrote: »

like you are doing right now you can't stomach the changes then gtfo it's a game thats all. ppl who think it's something important in there daily life have no life at all.
ppl who take this game serious say negative things if a game changes makes me laugh but what do i expect im a teen so are most of the ppl who plays this game but i can clearly say that they act like little kids they need to experience the real world and not the cyber eworld or else they will only fail in life and keep running to a game to be something becaz they can't be anything in the real world so that's all I can say. also for the ppl who leave this game don't come back.

All good forum communities need more people like you./sarcasm

Just because you type a lot doesn't mean you're not trolling. I think one of your keys got jammed because all I read is "QQQQQQQQQQ".

MANray_ - Sanctuary · September 2009

KatieMorgan - Sanctuary wrote: »

so in my own personal case, the majority of the goals i was trying to achieve in PW are now kinda moot. i'm just gonna stick around a little while longer to finish up a few last things i wanted to do, and then i'll probably be gone too. it was great playing and hanging out with those of you i had the pleasure of meeting. see y'all in another life b:victoryb:thanksb:bye

You were able to make your point in a much more eloquent way than i could have, and i think you did a good job of striking a middle point in this argument.

Dustinmurphy - Harshlands wrote: »

like you are doing right now you can't stomach the changes then gtfo it's a game thats all. ppl who think it's something important in there daily life have no life at all.
ppl who take this game serious say negative things if a game changes makes me laugh but what do i expect im a teen so are most of the ppl who plays this game but i can clearly say that they act like little kids they need to experience the real world and not the cyber eworld or else they will only fail in life and keep running to a game to be something becaz they can't be anything in the real world so that's all I can say. also for the ppl who leave this game don't come back.

Once again, this has nuthing to do with real life and you don't have any right to presume anything about what any of us do outside of this game. You little cyberbully, the thing about not having dedication or skill got too personal? Worried your little sandbox might be empty now that you actually stand a chance to succeed?

PWI is NOT dead...Nor Dying..

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