Debate? Unfair Rulings - via Faction.

RedsRose - Lost City · August 2009

XME_Norou - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wow.. I'm picturing a person who runs a 'camera' character leaving something like FRAPS running or just a video recorder pointed at the screen while hes sleeping.. so he can catch all those evil wanna-be apothecaries the next day.

.. I think I just died a little on the inside.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just......wow..
There is a point where a TW faction needs to be careful and restrict SOME things. But such a move on nefarious' part regarding freedom of crafting items which may give a few more seconds advantage of lv5 ones, when they have like 300+ members including their sister faction, and are like the biggest faction atm, just says that they have no balls.
"We are the biggest faction atm, but we will **** a brick and freak out if any members go near 1K. Lv6 apothecarys will be our doom. Seriously."

SasakiSayuri's forum quote "Leaders of Tomorrow ^_--" is probably crying now.

LMAO....it is here on Lost City!! But none of us care we all just laugh b:chuckle

Falls - Sanctuary · August 2009

It is a shame that I feel inclined to defend something that I personally dislike, but I will try to look at it from the other side (since it is a skill some posters here seem to lack b:kiss):

Some people post as if other factions don't have rules, and the leadership in Nefarious are behaving particularly arrogant. We all know every faction has rules and guidelines, order is important to any organization (its implied in the word >_>). The rules that people are willing to put up with differ wildly, as I have met some who think that signing up for a faction's forums, or TeamSpeak/Vent is downright fascist b:surrender. Simply, if you believe in that amount of freedom, you won't belong to an organized TW faction.

Now, as it turns out, Nefarious has control over 1K Streams, and since they have a monopoly on the Ironguard potions, it was decided that the advantage would be best utilized by denying the rest of the server the potions, at a small cost to the members (That being that they cannot sell these potions for tidy sums). Of course, not everyone feels that the benefit to the faction will result in a benefit for them...so they decide to start selling an item with very small supply in the server, secretly, in the AH. Some would call that deceit, and greed. Rightfully, any member who was not profiting in this manner feels cheated by their faction mates.

To combat this, some clumsy (IMO) rules and measures were put in place. But as others have posted, we all have our free wills, and for the most part don't feel it is too much of an inconvenience. It sure is easy to criticize something from the outside though.

XME_Norou - Dreamweaver · August 2009

I oh totally get why they'd do it.. but really.. banned from the faction, for making Apoth items? How far they gonna go to watch over this.. how long before its a chore(to be assigned to someone in faction.. or multiple people on shifts) to watch over it every waking second of the day. More over.. whose to say I'm not there buying pots? If there is a way to put some sort of control on it... this isn't it, it creates unnecessary stress for both officers and members alike for something so incredibly small...

Silly members, Apothecary is for officers!

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

It is a shame that I feel inclined to defend something that I personally dislike, but I will try to look at it from the other side (since it is a skill some posters here seem to lack b:kiss):

Some people post as if other factions don't have rules, and the leadership in Nefarious are behaving particularly arrogant. We all know every faction has rules and guidelines, order is important to any organization (its implied in the word >_>). The rules that people are willing to put up with differ wildly, as I have met some who think that signing up for a faction's forums, or TeamSpeak/Vent is downright fascist b:surrender. Simply, if you believe in that amount of freedom, you won't belong to an organized TW faction.

Now, as it turns out, Nefarious has control over 1K Streams, and since they have a monopoly on the Ironguard potions, it was decided that the advantage would be best utilized by denying the rest of the server the potions, at a small cost to the members (That being that they cannot sell these potions for tidy sums). Of course, not everyone feels that the benefit to the faction will result in a benefit for them...so they decide to start selling an item with very small supply in the server, secretly, in the AH. Some would call that deceit, and greed. Rightfully, any member who was not profiting in this manner feels cheated by their faction mates.

To combat this, some clumsy (IMO) rules and measures were put in place. But as others have posted, we all have our free wills, and for the most part don't feel it is too much of an inconvenience. It sure is easy to criticize something from the outside though.

I think their saying that the sheer size of the faction doing this WITH the installation of 'cameras' over meds that are 1 lv higher than norm, is just plain sad. Its not that rules and guidelines themselves are bad. But the whole thing is screaming 'we get paranoid if other factions get these items DESPITE our largeness, high lvls and gear.' 12sec immune aint gonna flip the TW unless this is what you guys have been using to cover up for lack of skill, THEN we would understand why they wanna monopolize.

I hear voices of pple even from nef that want a more challenging TW. Yet they try to stomp down on anything that might assist on these wishes, such a good example is this NPC

Falls - Sanctuary · August 2009

XME_Norou - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I oh totally get why they'd do it.. but really.. banned from the faction, for making Apoth items? How far they gonna go to watch over this.. how long before its a chore(to be assigned to someone in faction.. or multiple people on shifts) to watch over it every waking second of the day. More over.. whose to say I'm not there buying pots? If there is a way to put some sort of control on it... this isn't it, it creates unnecessary stress for both officers and members alike for something so incredibly small...

Exactly why I think its clumsy, but so long as I don't have to do it, I'll live xD.

In reality, the sacrifice of the average member is minimal, especially compared to the officers. The worst thing that can happen is that you don't get your potion at the right time. Generally speaking though, most people still feel that the trade off of a slight bit of "freedom" to protect the faction monopoly (which may pay off in more subtle ways) is still worth it, which is why you don't actually see an insurrection. Debate is good though, so long as it isn't just more hate mongering coming from sources that are unwilling to provide constructive criticism (Most responses, Pages 1-4).

Tatuaje - Lost City · August 2009

How does one stop someone from other guilds from using a NPC? I am sorta confused. I think I get the whole point of someone in the guild using it since the guild does not want them to use the items required to create such apoth items so they aer watching all people who go to the NPC.

Falls - Sanctuary · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think their saying that the sheer size of the faction doing this WITH the installation of 'cameras' over meds that are 1 lv higher than norm, is just plain sad. Its not that rules and guidelines themselves are bad. But the whole thing is screaming 'we get paranoid if other factions get these items DESPITE our largeness, high lvls and gear.' 12sec immune aint gonna flip the TW unless this is what you guys have been using to cover up for lack of skill, THEN we would understand why they wanna monopolize.

I hear voices of pple even from nef that want a more challenging TW. Yet they try to stomp down on anything that might assist on these wishes, such a good example is this NPC

Lets be honest, we all do it. Something about glass houses and throwing rocks.

I won't be so cynical as to say that people are hypocrites and they like to root for the underdog, so long as they are not the top dog. (Well I said it anyways xD).

I actually think it is a bit more complicated. I think that people want the fun of a "challenge", so long as they win xD. The problem is that different people have different perceptions of a "fun challenge".

Now, forgive my exaggerations:

On an individual level, it sure would be challenging and difficult to sell every item at 50% off, but I see people greedy as every charging the exact right amount (or more) as often as possible.

On the faction level, I certainly don't see many factions taking on the challenge of going into a TW naked (in a fight that they believe they can win). I'm sure it might be fun for some xD.

Now, those aren't entirely unrealistic challenges, as I know that some people find it fun to play Final Fantasy or something without using magic, or not leveling up,...to each his own.

I remember a certain faction trying to monopolize on Rebirth Delta and Mysterious Tomes. I certainly couldn't blame them.

In this specific case it is just a trade off, between a bit of lost freedom (that the majority of the members had already tacitly agreed to) and a slight advantage. Again, I respect everyone's opinion on whether or not the trade off is worth it for them, just that in this faction, it seems to be.

On another point though, it is also about mutual respect. If we (the faction) will collude we must all collude, or it Falls apart. When people make sacrifices for each other it tends to form a stronger bond between them. They too can overreact and start clamoring "spy spy spy", but take it from me that there are enough reasonable people here to know things aren't always so black and white.

Falls - Sanctuary · August 2009

Tatuaje - Lost City wrote: »

How does one stop someone from other guilds from using a NPC? I am sorta confused. I think I get the whole point of someone in the guild using it since the guild does not want them to use the items required to create such apoth items so they aer watching all people who go to the NPC.

When a faction controls a territory, one of the benefits of being in that faction is that the "Officer" (Usually named something like; Officer of Thousand Streams), will produce special potions.

If you are in a faction that does not control the territory, you simply can not use this NPC to produce.

Poison - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Tatuaje - Lost City wrote: »

How does one stop someone from other guilds from using a NPC? I am sorta confused. I think I get the whole point of someone in the guild using it since the guild does not want them to use the items required to create such apoth items so they aer watching all people who go to the NPC.

The NPC in question is only accessible to guild members who own the territory.

Kazue - Heavens Tear · August 2009

considering what happened in radiance on HT. would be funny to see a repeat.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · August 2009

There are actually 3 sources in the game for iron guards:

1) 1K Officer
2) Stairway to Heaven Officer
3) Drops from mini world bosses

Falls - Sanctuary · August 2009

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

There are actually 3 sources in the game for iron guards:

1) 1K Officer
2) Stairway to Heaven Officer
3) Drops from mini world bosses

From what I understand, 3 don't drop too much.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

I actually think it is a bit more complicated. I think that people want the fun of a "challenge", so long as they win xD. The problem is that different people have different perceptions of a "fun challenge".

Sad but true.

Now, forgive my exaggerations:

On an individual level, it sure would be challenging and difficult to sell every item at 50% off, but I see people greedy as every charging the exact right amount (or more) as often as possible.

On the faction level, I certainly don't see many factions taking on the challenge of going into a TW naked (in a fight that they believe they can win). I'm sure it might be fun for some xD.

I remember a certain faction trying to monopolize on Rebirth Delta and Mysterious Tomes. I certainly couldn't blame them.

In this specific case it is just a trade off, between a bit of lost freedom (that the majority of the members had already tacitly agreed to) and a slight advantage. Again, I respect everyone's opinion on whether or not the trade off is worth it for them, just that in this faction, it seems to be.

On another point though, it is also about mutual respect. If we (the faction) will collude we must all collude, or it Falls apart. When people make sacrifices for each other it tends to form a stronger bond between them. They too can overreact and start clamoring "spy spy spy", but take it from me that there are enough reasonable people here to know things aren't always so black and white.

Personally, if its money being the issue, and an infair handful of pple were making loads of it, id see why some guidelines might be implemented.

But the usage of this mainly seems to be focused on TW. (i mean come on, i dont think they would go as far to think about preventing use in RB or WB since its not something rushed) You hear a lot of things said on the forum about big factions in the spotlight and I always keep in mind, "yeah, but there will always, always be another side of the story and diff. factors to consider that make it seem what its not".
I have nothing to back this up since it was ingame and I dont wanna be pointing fingers at individuals i actually remember, but more than several times I have heard that there are only a handful of REAL skilled players and the rest are just high lvl relying on gear and their lv and just mass number to beat lower facs. (aka skill less steemroll) But hey, its hard to tell if its true or not unless the others catch up in lvl and size.

So here i tell myself most of what is said has a possibility to be just jealous pple looking up at the present winners and QQing. They have the number, the levels, the gear, and quite possibly the skills that others are too sore to admit. And then bam you hear things like this happen. For me the possibility of the skill department kind of crumbled in myself when i heard a big faction had to 'protect' its meds to the point of putting 'watchers' there. Alot of questions came into mind including, Do they think theyll loose if this is distributed? if not are they just getting lazy for an easy win? Was it true most of the skilled pple were the original founders and the rest rely on items and gear instead of skill?

Neokaiser - Sanctuary · August 2009

Well said faction does have two members who are famous for relying on Gear to survive in pvp/TW, areas where they both lack skill, one has bought a cube necklace, the other has sharded with mostly perfect citrines. The latter sells Ironguards to people... in one of the other land-owning factions, the leader of the first faction knows this.

It is against the rules of this faction to do this, but the leader is too scared to punish him (This seller has more friends in the faction than the leader).

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · August 2009

Wow, monopolizing entire servers, enforcing severe rules on your fellow players and teamates, using your time and resources to maintain 24hour security watches on ingame npc's, going to great lengths to have dominance over all lands..... just so you can have slightly better game items than everyone else on an online computer game?

Epic win! Good to see people making the most of their lives! Certainly completely worth it! b:victory /sarcasm

Falls - Sanctuary · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sad but true.

Personally, if its money being the issue, and an infair handful of pple were making loads of it, id see why some guidelines might be implemented.

But the usage of this mainly seems to be focused on TW. (i mean come on, i dont think they would go as far to think about preventing use in RB or WB since its not something rushed) You hear a lot of things said on the forum about big factions in the spotlight and I always keep in mind, "yeah, but there will always, always be another side of the story and diff. factors to consider that make it seem what its not".
I have nothing to back this up since it was ingame and I dont wanna be pointing fingers at individuals i actually remember, but more than several times I have heard that there are only a handful of REAL skilled players and the rest are just high lvl relying on gear and their lv and just mass number to beat lower facs. (aka skill less steemroll) But hey, its hard to tell if its true or not unless the others catch up in lvl and size.

So here i tell myself most of what is said has a possibility to be just jealous pple looking up at the present winners and QQing. They have the number, the levels, the gear, and quite possibly the skills that others are too sore to admit. And then bam you hear things like this happen. For me the possibility of the skill department kind of crumbled in myself when i heard a big faction had to 'protect' its meds to the point of putting 'watchers' there. Alot of questions came into mind including, Do they think theyll loose if this is distributed? if not are they just getting lazy for an easy win? Was it true most of the skilled pple were the original founders and the rest rely on items and gear instead of skill?

Well, whenever I hear someone actually say something like "I'm an awesome PvPer/TW'er", I roll my eyes and give a chuckle b:chuckle. We both know the kind of people who would go around saying that kind of thing are either trolling or probably very poor at both PvP and TWs b:surrender.

As far as I'm concerned, skill counts for very little. I don't mean click speed, because that is just lame xD. I mean intellectual prowess. Sure, there are amazing moments of insight, when a player or faction will employ a new strategy or tactic that will just wow you (and that is a display of skill, if momentary), but the reality is, most people pick up their "skills" from somewhere else. "We are all standing on the shoulders of giants".

You will never catch me saying that I am a skilled player, because while I personally think I have original ideas on occasion I have nothing to reference them to, as to be confident enough to call myself skilled.

In my opinion, more important than the "skillz that killz" is the effort made by the players. We all know that items make the characters, much more so in this game than in many others (Such is the nature of supposedly free to play MMORPGs xD).

So in response to your questions, "is there fear, laziness?" No, what the officers are doing now to enforce this rule is just another example of their effort, and foresight, and care. As you point out, the levels will inevitably catch up to Nefarious, so every advantage milked as long as possible will go a long way.

Falls - Sanctuary · August 2009

Neokaiser - Sanctuary wrote: »

The latter sells Ironguards to people... in one of the other land-owning factions, the leader of the first faction knows this. It is against the rules of this faction to do this, but the leader is too scared to punish him (This seller has more friends in the faction than the leader).

If no names, then you are just rumor mongering.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Epic win! Good to see people making the most of their lives! Certainly completely worth it! b:victory /sarcasm

You realize of course... b:chuckle

Novie - Sanctuary · August 2009

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

considering what happened in radiance on HT. would be funny to see a repeat.

As someone thats only ever been on Sanc and DW.. what happened to Radiance on HT? =P

Espionize - Sanctuary · August 2009

1) Im next to my friend who is in Nefarious(who got me starting playing)

2)Im not talking down on Nefarious

3)Its a serious question and highly debate optioned, i believe there was a court case(yes internet court services) that laid down basic policies, and the game was .... "handled promptly with judicial reasons"

4)Always thinking there is no low LVs in that faction besides 84+ and the land is a LV3, which will contain these exclusive items to be made only if ur inside the faction.

5) I saw someone talking about risk(sorry alot of posts to read) that they rather be in the faction and not excel in something you worked hard for, this could go through as distrust, serious playing, and a **** in armor as most say "wow they went this low"

6) To be honest i don't think the rights are fair and that everyone has a chance to make items to benefit their character for the hard work they have done in the faction. right?

edit

I mean yes the possible uses for the herbs mainly since we are talking LV6 Apothicary, yes Irongaurd and such have been "banned" from Faction use, but some of these members worked hard for this land and would/should have rights to using whatever they want...

This is my outside perspective looking in, no, I barely PK I know I .... lack in experience. Also im not the level to be saying much, but most would have this up for major debate.

Miriade - Sanctuary · August 2009

O M G !!!!

Another cute drama thread!!!! Yey! This is the soul of Sactuary!

Btw, players from another servers, if you're not happy with the amount of drama you can find in your server, come to Sanctuary! We have a Mexican Drama going here!

Well, and for the ppl that are blaming us for it... Y U SO CONCERNED? Are you mad cause your IronGuard supply is being cutted?

BTW, to make NDS (Nefarious Dictatorship System) work even better, I would ask GM's to put the name of the manufacturer in the pots and show his name when the person use it... ROFL!

b:cute

Nakhimov - Lost City · August 2009

PvP server dramam isn't this fun b:chuckle

Espionize - Sanctuary · August 2009

Miriade - Sanctuary wrote: »

O M G !!!!

Another cute drama thread!!!! Yey! This is the soul of Sactuary!

Btw, players from another servers, if you're not happy with the amount of drama you can find in your server, come to Sanctuary! We have a Mexican Drama going here!

Well, and for the ppl that are blaming us for it... Y U SO CONCERNED? Are you mad cause your IronGuard supply is being cutted?

BTW, to make NDS (Nefarious Dictatorship System) work even better, I would ask GM's to put the name of the manufacturer in the pots and show his name when the person use it... ROFL!

b:cute

Well since this is also your amusement, Director of Nefarious, Why would you ask such a question when your officers have been concerned that people may have been selling these items as benefit. Tossing out no this is not drama its a debate. and Yes asking who made pots so no one had to run around a bat questioning "WHO MADE WHAT POTS" or Some members already being in-game mailed to "Not go near 1k officer. You have been recorded"b:shocked (wth?) But going back to main note, Not to long ago, Nefarious was beat by Legendary and Nefarious blamed them for hacking... and opinion if I was Asterelle, I would be sitting in a chair slapping a knee at. so Y U HACKS? Y SO PURGE? has been the comical joke in WC.b:chuckle

Aadi - Lost City · August 2009

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

PvP server dramam isn't this fun b:chuckle

That's because we kill each other to sort it out before it goes this far.

mizuakoaina · August 2009

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

That's because we kill each other to sort it out before it goes this far.

+1

Pssst, posting without an avatar is cool, but everyone can tell who it is anyway. QQ

Nakhimov - Lost City · August 2009

mizuakoaina wrote: »

+1

Pssst, posting without an avatar is cool, but everyone can tell who it is anyway. QQ

Hi not Xtacy b:bye

Sarugami - Sanctuary · August 2009

It's just pure business, it's what they needed to do to stay on top. I'm sure any faction that own more than half of the map and have the ability to would do the same, regardless of what they say now. It's human's nature to keep the best things for themselves in order to better than others.

I found this interesting read called "The 48 Laws of Power" in another forum and it's exactly what this said faction is doing b:chuckle.

Law 11

Learn to Keep People Dependent on You

To maintain your independence you must always be needed and wanted. The more you are relied on, the more freedom you have. Make people depend on you for their happiness and prosperity and you have nothing to fear. Never teach them enough so that they can do without you.

Law 29

Plan All the Way to the End

The ending is everything. Plan all the way to it, taking into account all the possible consequences, obstacles, and twists of fortune that might reverse your hard work and give the glory to others. By planning to the end you will not be overwhelmed by circumstances and you will know when to stop. Gently guide fortune and help determine the future by thinking far ahead.

Source: http://www2.tech.purdue.edu/cg/Courses/cgt411/covey/48_laws_of_power.htm

mizuakoaina · August 2009

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

Hi not Xtacy b:bye

*giggle*

Y U 10CHAR LIMIT

Neokaiser - Sanctuary · August 2009

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

If no names, then you are just rumor mongering.

If I named names the thread would be closed Captain Price

Falls - Sanctuary · August 2009

Neokaiser - Sanctuary wrote: »

If I named names the thread would be closed Captain Price

Actually, no xD, and you can always mail me

.

That no blacklisting policy, is a doozy, ain't it? Its worse than not making Potions in 1K. Go post it on Nefarious forums, we have no such concerns xD.

Neokaiser - Sanctuary · August 2009

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually, no xD, and you can always mail me .

That no blacklisting policy, is a doozy, ain't it? Its worse than not making Potions in 1K. Go post it on Nefarious forums, we have no such concerns xD.

..Really? your that polite and accepting, you banned a guildy of mine for posting a pic of one of your members PKing at the cube entrance.

Debate? Unfair Rulings - via Faction.

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