New prices on mounts

Foulcault - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Posts like this will be ignored cause it makes sense b:chuckle you know how those QQ-ers answer to the easy posts

Actually it makes no sense to me. That example in has nothing to do with the current. Now make that guy off the street get the job and get twice the pay then the degree person and see what the degree person does...QQ. "I paid all this cash for a useless degree!"

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear · August 2009

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually yes. I went to school for dental assisting, only to find out that any fly by night person can walk into most dental offices without any degree or schooling whatsoever and get the same job. Did I waste my time going to school? Of course not. My education got me hired faster, paid more and I was more knowledgeable about my job. Is my degree worth more no. In the sense that said person and I have the same degrees now since working "under" the dentist there is the ability (and the must) to get the same accredentials. I'm no longer even paid more after that. Is it fair, no.. of course not. But life goes on. I still get paid. I still have my credentials.

People here should have that same outlook. You still have your silvermane. You still worked hard to get it. You achieved something you are proud of, or should be.

i dont understand why you would try to apply for a job which you didnt need qualifications for when you had qualifications. if that was me i would try to find a job which needed qualifications which would pay more.
to me it seems that you are the type of person that doesnt have the urge to improve yourself to the fullest extent and be better than the rest which is why you dont find rare stuff appealing.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Posts like this will be ignored cause it makes sense b:chuckle you know how those QQ-ers answer to the easy posts

Deceptistar, in all honesty this thread has calmed down to the point where people are politely disagreeing with each other and providing their reasons for doing so. BratFury does indeed make good arguments. However, if all you have to contribute is jumping in and calling people QQ-ers, then please stay out of the discussion.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

Foulcault - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually it makes no sense to me. That example in has nothing to do with the current. Now make that guy off the street get the job and get twice the pay then the degree person and see what the degree person does...QQ. "I paid all this cash for a useless degree!"

Its a comparison. She with the degree is the person playing the role as DQ attained horse, player. The degree here is in comparison of the initial feeling of accomplishment that the DQ pple got, but the 20G buyers did not.

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i dont understand why you would try to apply for a job which you didnt need qualifications for when you had qualifications. if that was me i would try to find a job which needed qualifications which would pay more.
to me it seems that you are the type of person that doesnt have the urge to improve yourself to the fullest extent and be better than the rest which is why you dont find rare stuff appealing.

Life aint easy but shes trying to explain as best she can to pple like you who see in black and white. "Easier said than done". It probably never crossed your mind that she saved us reading a whole 10 page biography explaining why she hasnt gone into the next step yet.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Deceptistar, in all honesty this thread has calmed down to the point where people are politely disagreeing with each other and providing their reasons for doing so. BratFury does indeed make good arguments. However, if all you have to contribute is jumping in and calling people QQ-ers, then please stay out of the discussion.

Me= that little spark of fire.
You= the fuel added (compare; QQer complaining about the other QQer QQing something)

By the way, I only mentioned QQ-ers. I did not state any accusations of anyone being one after the said thread has calmed down. Please be careful of your words and not jump to erroneous conclusions for you may find yourself a contributer of the next wave of busy postings.

Foulcault - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its a comparison. She with the degree is the person playing the role as DQ attained horse, player. The degree here is in comparison of the initial feeling of accomplishment that the DQ pple got, but the 20G buyers did not.

Yes but then she states she gets more money, easier to be hired, etc. That's a form of external prestigue like having the horse used to be. I think a more appropriate example would be now Brat finds the other guy got hired at the same time and at twice the pay for not having the degree.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

Foulcault - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes but then she states she gets more money, easier to be hired, etc. That's a form of external prestigue like having the horse used to be. I think a more appropriate example would be now Brat finds the other guy got hired at the same time and at twice the pay for not having the degree.

I was thnking maybe "money, easier to be hired, etc." as comparison to the reaction of a person hearing about the harder DQ effort.

Miriade - Sanctuary · August 2009

I'm ok now.. I have a panda... haha

But seriously, I still thinking that the thing with horses wasn't that good deal for pwi.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

Miriade - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm ok now.. I have a panda... haha

.......................................>.>;;; wtf this just made me go WOW...

how quickly a person can be calmed when given an equivalently rare item hardworked or not...

Miriade - Sanctuary wrote: »

4. The horses was an example of hard work. We can look at this thread and see how many ppl telling how much they had to work to get their horses (and I am one of these ppl who worked for about one month and spend about 16-18 mil to have the horse). The sensation we have now is like we worked for nothing.

Miriade - Sanctuary · August 2009

You can be sure, was hard to get 45 mil and make my friend sell it for me... Two months asking him to sell it... And make 45 mil in game isn't easy.

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Life aint easy but shes trying to explain as best she can to pple like you who see in black and white. "Easier said than done". It probably never crossed your mind that she saved us reading a whole 10 page biography explaining why she hasnt gone into the next step yet.

i can understand that people say "thats just life. get over it." thats just how some people are. im not saying thats a bad thing because if you are happy then thats fine.
but in my opinion if you take that kind of logic then you wont find yourself excelling in anything. life isnt easy in most cases, and you have to work for things you want.

back on topic. i havnt actually lost anything. i have a spurred chubbs but i bought it with the 19 gold i sold, but that doesnt mean that im not annoyed at pwi for putting the horses into the cash shop.
for the most part of the DQ quest its just flying around, which is the boring part of pw unless you like to look at the scenery alot. even if they bought the DO they would have to search the catshops for people selling them and that in itself would take time. so the "journey" to get the horse for most players isnt 'fun'. its what's at the end of the road that brings the most joy which can now be got by putting some money into the game. it makes people think twice before they do anything to get an item that takes a long time, because in the next maintenance they might put it in the cash shop.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i can understand that people say "thats just life. get over it." thats just how some people are. im not saying thats a bad thing because if you are happy then thats fine.
but in my opinion if you take that kind of logic then you wont find yourself excelling in anything. life isnt easy in most cases, and you have to work for things you want.

back on topic. i havnt actually lost anything. i have a spurred chubbs but i bought it with the 19 gold i sold, but that doesnt mean that im not annoyed at pwi for putting the horses into the cash shop.
for the most part of the DQ quest its just flying around, which is the boring part of pw unless you like to look at the scenery alot. even if they bought the DO they would have to search the catshops for people selling them and that in itself would take time. so the "journey" to get the horse for most players isnt 'fun'. its what's at the end of the road that brings the most joy which can now be got by putting some money into the game. it makes people think twice before they do anything to get an item that takes a long time, because in the next maintenance they might put it in the cash shop.

You have a valid point but i think its only natural that old content is made cheaper for the upcoming new. I realize PWI did seem to add specific things i dont see in other asian versions but who knows, since they could do this, maybe theres a possibility we can expect a replacement for the DQ horses...like a panda or something...>.>

Miriade - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can be sure, was hard to get 45 mil and make my friend sell it for me... Two months asking him to sell it... And make 45 mil in game isn't easy.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

You= the fuel added (compare; QQer complaining about the other QQer QQing something)

By the way, I only mentioned QQ-ers. I did not state any accusations of anyone being one after the said thread has calmed down. Please be careful of your words and not jump to erroneous conclusions for you may find yourself a contributer of the next wave of busy postings.

You state that I am a QQer complaining about the other QQer QQing something. You then state that you are not making any accusations of anyone being a QQer. I'm sure I must be misreading you.

I admit I wonder what your response is to my position. As I've stated, I am somebody who in no way was hurt by this sale. Rather, I am somebody who is looking at the sale and realizing this was a very bad decision that undermined a significant segment of the player base, and it did so unnecessarily.

Those who support PWIs decision do raise very good points about keeping things in perspective, accepting loss, basing one's self-esteem on the satisfaction of the effort and not simply upon possessing a certain rare prize, and so forth. I agree with all of these notions. They are very good advice for living one's life.

However, PWI is a video game, not real life. As a general rule, players do not want to play games that attempt to teach them life lessons.

Consumers are fickle. Any good business knows this. That's why this sale was a bad business decision, because it upset a significant number of loyal customers unnecessarily.

In the end, my advice to my friend's wife who is upset about the sale is basically exactly what people, like yourself, have been saying about learning to either overcome, or live with, her feelings of loss. She has been taught a life lesson, like it or not. And my further advice to her is what I've also told others I know personally, "If it's really upsetting you, just quit. Video games are supposed to be fun, and if you're not having fun then why play? Go do something else you enjoy, instead. You can't ever win these kinds of games anyway, so you're not losing anything by stopping when it's no longer enjoyable."

To me, that seems like sound, sensible advice.

The problem for PWI is that if enough people take that advice, in response to too many similar bad decisions, then PWI will go out of business.

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

You have a valid point but i think its only natural that old content is made cheaper for the upcoming new. I realize PWI did seem to add specific things i dont see in other asian versions but who knows, since they could do this, maybe theres a possibility we can expect a replacement for the DQ horses...like a panda or something...>.>

even if they did replace them the fact still stands that they would probably put them in the cash shop further down the line as they have done with these.
although im confused how this helps the economy too. DQ is (was) a big coin sink in the game. As people have already said they spent millions to get the horse. they could have sold the dqs at a npc and got loads of coin to spend on other stuff. now alot more people will sell their dq for coin.
this may look like a increase in coin but because of the new BH quest people will lvl up alot quicker. eg lvl60 doing just BH and crazy stone can lvl in 3 days. this means that people will have less coin and if you want to get half decent skills and equip you can either stop doing BH and crazy stone and grind for monies or buy gold and sell it for coin. to me you would have to be crazy to not do BH.
the thing is im actually doing electronic games technology at university at the mo and i dont understand why a company so large doesnt understand how important rare items are and what effect it has if you take that rareness away.

btw i keep confusing myself so thats why it may not read as well as it does in my head... lol lots of thoughts going on.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary · August 2009

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear wrote: »

even if they did replace them the fact still stands that they would probably put them in the cash shop further down the line as they have done with these.
although im confused how this helps the economy too. DQ is (was) a big coin sink in the game. As people have already said they spent millions to get the horse. they could have sold the dqs at a npc and got loads of coin to spend on other stuff. now alot more people will sell their dq for coin.
this may look like a increase in coin but because of the new BH quest people will lvl up alot quicker. eg lvl60 doing just BH and crazy stone can lvl in 3 days. this means that people will have less coin and if you want to get half decent skills and equip you can either stop doing BH and crazy stone and grind for monies or buy gold and sell it for coin. to me you would have to be crazy to not do BH.
the thing is im actually doing electronic games technology at university at the mo and i dont understand why a company so large doesnt understand how important rare items are and what effect it has if you take that rareness away.

btw i keep confusing myself so thats why it may not read as well as it does in my head... lol lots of thoughts going on.

not to mention that a lower demand for that means that less ppl would grind = much less revenue from eso, charm etc

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear · August 2009

AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »

not to mention that a lower demand for that means that less ppl would grind = much less revenue from eso, charm etc

the thing is i believe they are trying to 'fix' the economy. but the way they are doing it is just plain rediculous. it seems like they have just said 'i know lets lower the price of every1s assets. that way we can take a huge chunk of coin out the game.' doing this instead of actually letting jolly jones do his job and make people get loads of consumable items which many people will spend coin(through buying gold with coin, or buying the GA's off other people) on because it improves their char. i have no worries about the other reduced mounts but to take away something rare at the expense of the players(when it could have been avoided) because it helps the economy its a mindboggle to me.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · August 2009

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear wrote: »

although im confused how this helps the economy too. DQ is (was) a big coin sink in the game. As people have already said they spent millions to get the horse. they could have sold the dqs at a npc and got loads of coin to spend on other stuff. now alot more people will sell their dq for coin.

I checked. The highest buy order in the AH for Silver Orders is 200k at the moment, down from ~280k before the sale. This new price is now well below the break-even point of selling Orders vs. the DQ items. I can't really say what that means, though.

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the thing is im actually doing electronic games technology at university at the mo and i dont understand why a company so large doesnt understand how important rare items are and what effect it has if you take that rareness away.

I get the felling from reading the announcement that the decision was made by somebody who didn't know about what these two mounts already represented to the players. The announcement speaks of "two new" mounts. But of course they are not new. So I suspect that this was just a hasty blunder, not a conscious, informed decision.

eatwithspoons · August 2009

I don't think any of these new things were intentionally labeled "a change that will fix the economy" because nothing can completely fix them but themselves. I know change is coming quickly and not everyone is pleased, which is why we are taking note of all the feedback. We do have other things in the works that should be really cool, as far as the economy goes right now everyone has to wait and see how everything levels off, currently the fluctuations are too great to get a good assessment of it's current state.

BratFury - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Foulcault - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually it makes no sense to me. That example in has nothing to do with the current. Now make that guy off the street get the job and get twice the pay then the degree person and see what the degree person does...QQ. "I paid all this cash for a useless degree!"

That is essentially what happened. I went to school, they didn't. They got the same job. It took about 6 months to get all the credentials I had (on paper), and the same pay.

But lets not focus on me shall we? Lets focus on the analogy it was meant to be.

Imagine, I am you, the degree is the silvermane. You are the easy breezy person who spent no time in school, and their degree is the silvermane. No matter who initially worked hardest, or spent the most money. We eventually ended up in the same place with the same thing. If you can't understand that analogy I give up.

But spewing out insults about my personal life is not necessary. As deceptistar said, I'd rather not write a 10 page biography about having children, starting a family, and doing other things with my life as it may go. The analogy was what I was after. Hope it got accomplished this time.

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear · August 2009

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

I checked. The highest buy order in the AH for Silver Orders is 200k at the moment, down from ~280k before the sale. This new price is now well below the break-even point of selling Orders vs. the DQ items. I can't really say what that means, though.

I get the felling from reading the announcement that the decision was made by somebody who didn't know about what these two mounts already represented to the players. The announcement speaks of "two new" mounts. But of course they are not new. So I suspect that this was just a hasty blunder, not a conscious, informed decision.

it makes me think twice about playing this game that some1 has done this with what seems like no experience with the game. im pretty sure that most people over lvl20 knows about the horses you can get from the dq quest.
i just hope they dont take it too far and start to mess with equip and weapons.

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear · August 2009

eatwithspoons wrote: »

I don't think any of these new things were intentionally labeled "a change that will fix the economy" because nothing can completely fix them but themselves. I know change is coming quickly and not everyone is pleased, which is why we are taking note of all the feedback. We do have other things in the works that should be really cool, as far as the economy goes right now everyone has to wait and see how everything levels off, currently the fluctuations are too great to get a good assessment of it's current state.

i can understand that the economy will fluctuate because of the constant change in how much gold is bought and inputted into the game. if other than taking away a lot of coins in assets what was the point in making the two horses a cash shop item?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

Jimmijam - Heavens Tear wrote: »

even if they did replace them the fact still stands that they would probably put them in the cash shop further down the line as they have done with these.
although im confused how this helps the economy too. DQ is (was) a big coin sink in the game. As people have already said they spent millions to get the horse. they could have sold the dqs at a npc and got loads of coin to spend on other stuff. now alot more people will sell their dq for coin.
this may look like a increase in coin but because of the new BH quest people will lvl up alot quicker. eg lvl60 doing just BH and crazy stone can lvl in 3 days. this means that people will have less coin and if you want to get half decent skills and equip you can either stop doing BH and crazy stone and grind for monies or buy gold and sell it for coin. to me you would have to be crazy to not do BH.
the thing is im actually doing electronic games technology at university at the mo and i dont understand why a company so large doesnt understand how important rare items are and what effect it has if you take that rareness away.

btw i keep confusing myself so thats why it may not read as well as it does in my head... lol lots of thoughts going on.

Altho the popularity of the Dragon orders themselves may decrease, i think the DQ themselves will still be decent price. Why I say this is cause of the exp that comes with it, and its pretty good.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

You state that I am a QQer complaining about the other QQer QQing something. You then state that you are not making any accusations of anyone being a QQer. I'm sure I must be misreading you.

LMAO i knew you would say that. YUS you sure are misreading alot. b:chuckle Thats why i worded it "compare;", never once did I state you are the QQer, you are the one that conluded that

Brael - Dreamweaver · August 2009

The more important question I think. Part of the reason for Jolly was said to be to remove coin from the servers, correct? While I have no problem with those horses being placed into the CS but if removing coin is a goal, why put them in there? 20 gold at 200k which is high, would remove 80,000 from the server, but in reduced DQ's being done it would add far more. To sell the 61 DQ items for example (30% chance of silver, 60% chance of copper), rather than doing the quest results in 60 items at 1500 each instead being sold, which generates 90,000 coin. In order to get the horse with that DQ it requires an average of 167 DQ's. At 90k per DQ you're looking at 14,950,000 (15,030,000-80,000) coin added to the server for each mount that's done through the gold trader rather than through DQ's.

So, isn't this... much like Jolly due to Oracles (and shards, but they're not an immediate effect) adding coin to the server?

BratFury - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The more important question I think. Part of the reason for Jolly was said to be to remove coin from the servers, correct? While I have no problem with those horses being placed into the CS but if removing coin is a goal, why put them in there? 20 gold at 200k which is high, would remove 80,000 from the server, but in reduced DQ's being done it would add far more. To sell the 61 DQ items for example (30% chance of silver, 60% chance of copper), rather than doing the quest results in 60 items at 1500 each instead being sold, which generates 90,000 coin. In order to get the horse with that DQ it requires an average of 167 DQ's. At 90k per DQ you're looking at 14,950,000 (15,030,000-80,000) coin added to the server for each mount that's done through the gold trader rather than through DQ's.

So, isn't this... much like Jolly due to Oracles (and shards, but they're not an immediate effect) adding coin to the server?

You completely missed it. Gm's never stated that the horses being in the cash shop was to remove coin from the server. It was to boost sales for zen. And thats exactly what it did.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary · August 2009

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You completely missed it. Gm's never stated that the horses being in the cash shop was to remove coin from the server. It was to boost sales for zen. And thats exactly what it did.

but they are undoing jolly and stuffz

Viper_girl - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Altho the popularity of the Dragon orders themselves may decrease, i think the DQ themselves will still be decent price. Why I say this is cause of the exp that comes with it, and its pretty good.

I would somewhat agree with the fact that there is a fair amount of XP in a DQ, however if you compare the cost/time involved you are FAR better off doing Oracles 1,2 or 3. Even at the post Jones event inflated prices.

And WarrenWolfy is about right on the new SO prices. I sold mine for anywhere from 170K-210K. Anything above that and they would expire unsold from AH. I also suspect that a fair number of those purchases were from players trying to artificially hold the prices at near 300K.

The real equilibrium price right now is around 80K which is the approx breakeven to trade them in for a Silvermane vs buying in Cash shop.

Brael - Dreamweaver · August 2009

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You completely missed it. Gm's never stated that the horses being in the cash shop was to remove coin from the server. It was to boost sales for zen. And thats exactly what it did.

You completely missed my point. I'm not upset at all about the mounts being placed into the CS, infact I think it was an appropriate move considering the overall greater attainability they appear to be shooting for with mounts. Their stated purpose of Jolly however was to remove coin from the server (if that actually happened or not is up to quite a bit of debate unless they post coin totals before and after for each server), by putting the mounts in the cash shop they're doing something that runs completely opposite to that idea, as it adds more to the server through encouraging DQ items to be sold.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · August 2009

LMAO i knew you would say that. YUS you sure are misreading alot. b:chuckle Thats why i worded it "compare;", never once did I state you are the QQer, you are the one that conluded that

Um... ok, yes. That's why I stated I must be misreading you. The "compare;" is ambiguous and unclear, so I didn't know what you meant. Why is that "LMAO"?

But really, I did ask you what your views are. I have given my position in detail, and tried to be as reasonable and rational about it as I can be, but I still don't know where you stand in response to it. At the moment, all I know about your position is that it involves "LMAO"-type responses and other 1-liners.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2009

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Um... ok, yes. That's why I stated I must be misreading you. The "compare;" is ambiguous and unclear, so I didn't know what you meant. Why is that "LMAO"?

But really, I did ask you what your views are. I have given my position in detail, and tried to be as reasonable and rational about it as I can be, but I still don't know where you stand in response to it. At the moment, all I know about your position is that it involves "LMAO"-type responses and other 1-liners.

Well honestly i dont think i can answer that post because you kinda gave yourself the question for me(or more like a view) yet answered it yourself >>
Your first post concluded not of a question but more of a demand. If you read carefully your second post on the prior page you didnt state a clear position that I could answer to, more it was like a personal view and in the end it stayed pretty much a personal view and action that wasnt on any extreme end that i can poke at >.>

Viper_girl - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would somewhat agree with the fact that there is a fair amount of XP in a DQ, however if you compare the cost/time involved you are FAR better off doing Oracles 1,2 or 3. Even at the post Jones event inflated prices.

I guess which server and which faction would also make a diff. atm, since presently there are a couple servers which have a dominant faction (aka free tele travels)

Fireblood - Harshlands · August 2009

The new prices remind me of this event : http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=257921&highlight=Half+priced+mounts

New prices on mounts

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