SO I POSTED: xD
Comments
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Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »I actually can prove it, I told you, go in game and test the skill, there is my proof.
Why is it that way? I don't know, ask the developers.
I agree some stuff are strange on this game.
for instance, my personal defence with my gear says that it will reduce my damage my taken by 65%
however, when I apply aura of the golden bell that is suppposed to increase my defence by an extra 60%. it tells me that now it will reduce my damage taken by 73%
Still, when I apply my marrow physical that is supposed to increase my phy defence by 120% on top of aura. the message changes to 81%
In other hand when apply my marrow without golden bell. the message changes ffrom 65% to 78%. if I add golden bell on top of that ot changes to 81%
I guess you could be right, since I dont totally understand how these things work.0 -
Lyndura - Lost City wrote: ».
When you use Myriad, you will only reduce the base magic attack by 50% (the part in red), but you won't reduce the 500% weapon damage or the 13,955 add-on damage. It won't reduce the mastery either or any debuffs. And the formulas for defenses still need to be made.
just curious, how do you know this?
Since the skill from myriad says that it reduces physical attack or magical attack. It does not say that it will reduce base physical or base magical only.
Again, the description could be wrong. However, I;m curious how you know this insider info?
Since physical and magical attack includes masteries, weapons, gear ect. How do you know the skill only affects part of the formula rather than the entire formula?0 -
If the base magic damage Lyndura's talking about is the damage range shown on the character stat panel when you press "c", then just let someone cast myriad on you and see if it decrease the right percent.
To test if myriad effects mastery and additional damage, you can ask a friend to cast the same spell on you before and after myriad. Again check if it decreases the right percent. You might have to try a few times to get the average or go without weapon and ignore weapon damage completely. Either way it will show the correct percent if it does effect mastery and the added damage.
Any flaws in this experiment? And anyone willing to test this out? This should settle the argument here.b:surrender0 -
Seablue - Sanctuary wrote: »If the base magic damage Lyndura's talking about is the damage range shown on the character stat panel when you press "c", then just let someone cast myriad on you and see if it decrease the right percent.
To test if myriad effects mastery and additional damage, you can ask a friend to cast the same spell on you before and after myriad. Again check if it decreases the right percent. You might have to try a few times to get the average or go without weapon and ignore weapon damage completely. Either way it will show the correct percent if it does effect mastery and the added damage.
Any flaws in this experiment? And anyone willing to test this out? This should settle the argument here.b:surrender
I just tried with mobs for over an hour.b:chuckle
the mob was hitting me about 145 per hit
when I used myriad he was hitting around 79
I have the skill to level 7 which means I get 44% reduction.
so 145x (100%-44%)=95
So far, I was getting more benefits than the skill was saying lol.0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »I just tried with mobs for over an hour.b:chuckle
the mob was hitting me about 145 per hit
when I used myriad he was hitting around 79
I have the skill to level 7 which means I get 44% reduction.
so 145x (100%-44%)=95
So far, I was getting more benefits than the skill was saying lol.
Mobs always have the same physical/magical attack. They have no masteries, no add-ons, etc.
Reason why Myriad and Glacial Spike always work right on mobs. Go and try on players.
And:
145 * 0.44 = 63.8
145 - 63.8 = 81.2 = around 79.
You're getting exactly what the skill says.0 -
realize that warriors usually don't have high damage single hits. we are a more high damage over a short period of time than a high damage in 1 hit (excluding zerk crits). nobody spec's full str build so our damage is lower than dd classes and we are even weaker with skills because the xxx% bonus relative to damage will be even less with min str. at endgame warrior's won't 1 shot anyone with an ulti, dragon on the other hand is preferred because it's there to compliment the fact that warriors are a low but fast damage class. not to mention party members will also benefit more from the double damage.0
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Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »Mobs always have the same physical/magical attack. They have no masteries, no add-ons, etc.
Reason why Myriad and Glacial Spike always work right on mobs. Go and try on players.
And:
145 * 0.44 = 63.8
145 - 63.8 = 81.2 = around 79.
You're getting exactly what the skill says.
Thanks, I did my math wrong lol.
I will try with players lol0 -
Too much math b:surrenderb:surrender im not good with equations b:cryb
So i just want to ask, what really is our goal in throwing equations at each other? to find out which skill dmg the most? or which skill is useless and which is not? which skill is more important and which is not? why did the hybrid in the vid use flame rather than myriad? or who is the better Einstein? what really is the point? I know ur all just backing up ur arguments and ur side but All i can see now is just a battle between wits and not the point.
Like axes and fist, like Bms and wiz, like cleric and archers like barbs and venos like players an npcs like tooth brush and tooth paste all have their own purpose why they exist or why they were made. As far as i read i think all we want to really find out is why did the hybrid in the vid use flame instead of myriad... and i think my post was ignored and was not read...
The reason why he used flame is because as a DD(damage dealer not a tanker) is dat all he needs is to be able to amplify his dmg and his members dmg against the enemy , notice in the vid that most of the peeps they killed were stunned? so using myriads physical/magical atk debuff on them is a waste since a fisters goal(the hybrids main normal atk weapon) is to be able to kill the target during stun time so meaning as u saw in the vid theyre enemy really had NO chance to deal dat much dmg making myriad NOT PREFERABLE during that situation.
During DD against TT/HH bosses/against rb bosses/against fb bosses myriad and flame both have roles in any of the said situation of cors if u are a sword only BM the only skill u can use is myraid hell thats the only choice u have same goes for axe but if u are a hybrid and u know ur skills and u are not an other weapon skill hater u will know the appropriate time to use the appropriate skill on the appropriate situation.
Example, against rb bosses, remember ur goal is to kill the boss as fast as u can within the time limit so flame IS more useful but then again when in DW and ur wiz and ur barb is in a pinch myriads attack debuff on enemy is proven useful to help lessen enemy atks, (BB blessing + attack debuff on enemies meaning less and less dmg) there is more out there so its up to u people to find them
But let it be known, myriad is not useless ,as a sword they are balanced between skill spamming and normal atks against 1v1 so myriads usefulness can be utilized to the max is when ur fighting 1v1 against mage and High DDs, for example when axe vs sword u can use myriad when axe uses heavens flame and thunderstorm combo to AVOID being 1 hit killed and not to beat ur opponent, (well the next phase of battle is up to u im not a sword bm so i dont know how to fight axe with swords)
But let it also be known that which ever skill is the best is really a matter of opinion (but pls base it on ur experience AS a sword BM and AS an axe BM and not because u were able to use both skills during game life time biasm is most likely to show up coz u will most likely use the skill which u use from the start than experiment and be open minded on new ones )0 -
well, I did two duels to test.
in first duel without the skill the average attack I took was 105-110
in the second duel I applied the skill and the number was about 85-79
However, its hard to make a comparizon with only 15 secs of skill timing when the archer still missed me a lot lol.
107.5*(100-44)%=60.2
actual=82
These two numbers are far but more testing should be needed. I;m not willing to do more due to having to get two sparks to do it everytime lol.
So, for the time being I say you are right on PVP Lyndura.0 -
well the good thing at least, is that now I know I have to pick an ultimate for PVP either flames or Drake's Breath Bash from fists.
Drake's Breath Bash
Focus the hero's energy into the fists, then release. Affects enemies
in a 12.0 meter line. Deals base physical damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 5881.7.
For the next 15 seconds, all your normal attacks gain fire damage equal to 80% of
your weapon damage.
this appears to be better due to the fire damage but I wonder if it is a squad buff like flames.0 -
EricaPn - Heavens Tear wrote: »again.. if you haven't test thruly and dont know for sure ..
PLEASE DONT DIRECT NEW PEOPLE THE WRONG WAY.
Remember to spell check thruly before posting b:chuckle0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »well the good thing at least, is that now I know I have to pick an ultimate for PVP either flames or Drake's Breath Bash from fists.
Drake's Breath Bash
Focus the hero's energy into the fists, then release. Affects enemies
in a 12.0 meter line. Deals base physical damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 5881.7.
For the next 15 seconds, all your normal attacks gain fire damage equal to 80% of
your weapon damage.
this appears to be better due to the fire damage but I wonder if it is a squad buff like flames.
No. .0 -
btw, I did try flames too and the damage was increased as the skills said for 6 secs.
I will try if the same situation happen on PVP, I guess it does since nobody has complained about it.
I wonder if the reduction done by myriad for 15 secs is comparable to the increase flames does on 6 secs.0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »btw, I did try flames too and the damage was increased as the skills said for 6 secs.
I will try if the same situation happen on PVP, I guess it does since nobody has complained about it.
I wonder if the reduction done by myriad for 15 secs is comparable to the increase flames does on 6 secs.
Yes Heaven's Flame does work for both pve and pvp, common tactic is to use HF then Drake Bash for a ton of damage. And if you're comparing myriad to HF, one of them reduces the opponent's attack, the other increases the damage the opponent takes. They serve two completely different purposes, I don't see how you could compare0 -
Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yes Heaven's Flame does work for both pve and pvp, common tactic is to use HF then Drake Bash for a ton of damage. And if you're comparing myriad to HF, one of them reduces the opponent's attack, the other increases the damage the opponent takes. They serve two completely different purposes, I don't see how you could compare
yes, both skills have two different purposes. However, they are both used to win fights.
In PVP
I wonder how much damage can a axes user do in 6 secs to take advange of the skill and how much damage can opponent do to you in 15 secs for a bm to take advange of this skill even though the final damage reduction is not 50% but probably 20% to 30%.
In bosses or PVE.
the answer is not that complicated since if you cant take the damage the boss do, you should use myriad or other genie skills to reduce the damage. If the damage is not an issue, you just want to kill him quick. Then flames should be the way to go.0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »sorry, I could not understand the table.
but regarding the refines I was going per pwdatabase/pwi
...
Ok... well, if we compare two level 10 weapons -- calamity axes of blood and soulmessenger fists, pwdatabase and asiapworld both agree +1 adds 18 weapon damage on axes. But pwdatabase says +1 on those fists adds 16 damage where asiapworld's table says +1 only adds 13 damage.
Has anyone ever refined any fists? If so can they post a screenshot or something so we can see whether asiapworld or pwdatabase was right?0 -
Sinense - Sanctuary wrote: »Ok... well, if we compare two level 10 weapons -- calamity axes of blood and soulmessenger fists, pwdatabase and asiapworld both agree +1 adds 18 weapon damage on axes. But pwdatabase says +1 on those fists adds 16 damage where asiapworld's table says +1 only adds 13 damage.
Has anyone ever refined any fists? If so can they post a screenshot or something so we can see whether asiapworld or pwdatabase was right?
my current fists are +4, I bought them in AH. what do you need to know?0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »yes, both skills have two different purposes. However, they are both used to win fights.
In PVP
I wonder how much damage can a axes user do in 6 secs to take advange of the skill and how much damage can opponent do to you in 15 secs for a bm to take advange of this skill even though the final damage reduction is not 50% but probably 20% to 30%.
In bosses or PVE.
the answer is not that complicated since if you cant take the damage the boss do, you should use myriad or other genie skills to reduce the damage. If the damage is not an issue, you just want to kill him quick. Then flames should be the way to go.
Yes they are both used to win fights, but usually when you compare two things you compare two similar ones. For example people compare Heaven's Flame's debuff and Glacial Spike's debuff because they both increase the damage the other person takes, but I'm not going to compare Ironheart Blessing with Drake's Bash because their main usages have nothing in common. Yes they both help you win fights but they serve two completely different purposes. Heaven's Flame is used for the debuff, which helps deal the extra damage necessary to get through a charm in PvP. Myriad's debuff reduces the damage you take, potentially saving your life in PvP. Both debuffs are used for completely different purposes, they both have their applications in completely different situation. There is no straightforward answer, neither one is the "better pvp skill" because pvp contains countless different situations, and different skills are better suited for said situations.0 -
Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yes they are both used to win fights, but usually when you compare two things you compare two similar ones. For example people compare Heaven's Flame's debuff and Glacial Spike's debuff because they both increase the damage the other person takes, but I'm not going to compare Ironheart Blessing with Drake's Bash because their main usages have nothing in common. Yes they both help you win fights but they serve two completely different purposes. Heaven's Flame is used for the debuff, which helps deal the extra damage necessary to get through a charm in PvP. Myriad's debuff reduces the damage you take, potentially saving your life in PvP. Both debuffs are used for completely different purposes, they both have their applications in completely different situation. There is no straightforward answer, neither one is the "better pvp skill" because pvp contains countless different situations, and different skills are better suited for said situations.
I totally understand your point. one helps defence for 15 secs while the other helps on offensive for 6.
However, I'd like to know what skill would be "the perfect skill" or the perfect strategy to use during those 6 secs? based on earlier post, I see that you might use drake bash which requires another spark that you might not have since you already used two (even if you have the 3 sparks).
I think is very likely your opponent will kite you for 6 secs? Same thing as when people say that nobody is going to stand next to fist guy waiting to be outdps.
On the other hand if you apply myriad, your opponent is debuffed for 15 secs, which means, you will for sure get the savings of using the skill during that time.
BTW, this might sound stupid since I dont do much PVP but I'd like to know in case I do in the future.0 -
You can use Heaven's Flame to tick charm then immediatly use Drake Bash to deal huge damage (remember that Drake Bash is the only level 29 skill that adds weapon damage; therefore, being the strongest) and your opponent will be stunned for the next 6 seconds, that means you only need a couple more skills to kill your target.
Depending on the equipment, you could even one-shot someone with a dragon'ed berserker/critical/berserker+critical Drake Bash.
Once you get to level 90+, most kills will be based on the use or combination of 3 or more sparks, any fighting before using them will be just to build Chi. Unless you overgear your opponent, then you could kill with just critical/berserker hits.0 -
Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »You can use Heaven's Flame to tick charm then immediatly use Drake Bash to deal huge damage (remember that Drake Bash is the only level 29 skill that adds weapon damage; therefore, being the strongest) and your opponent will be stunned for the next 6 seconds, that means you only need a couple more skills to kill your target.
Depending on the equipment, you could even one-shot someone with a dragon'ed berserker/critical/berserker+critical Drake Bash.
Once you get to level 90+, most kills will be based on the use or combination of 3 or more sparks, any fighting before using them will be just to build Chi. Unless you overgear your opponent, then you could kill with just critical/berserker hits.
I like the strategy I think is really good.
now how do you counter in case is applied to you?
do you leap back or use cloud sprint right after your opponent applied flames on you? or do you stun him with drake bash yourself?0 -
Being a heavy user myself, other BM's will try to use Dragon -> Drake Bash -> Thunderstorm -> Kill with other skills.
Being smart, I would take the fight to the air, because since Thunderstorm came into the game fighting on the ground is not a good option anymore. Now, when fighting against another BM I got used to either, use Magical Marrow or Leap Back whenever they Dragon, to counter the double damage effect of Thunderstorm when the opponent is close.
After that I either stun or use smack to seal them, then use Mo Zun's Taunt and tiger leap to make time until dragon effect goes off.
Another strategy is to use Triple Spark to purify yourself from the Dragon effect and resist any incoming attacks for the next seconds. Or use Will of Bodhisatva when the opponent is using Dragon, to avoid being stunned.
You get the idea, you have to do whatever is in your hands to resist any of the incoming combos, like using a pill to resist damage, or a genie skill/pill to resist stuns, leaps, etc.
You have to react fast because you only have 2 seconds before your opponet stuns you with Drake Bash after Dragon.0 -
I have another question now.
How do you counter myriad effect or what would be the strategy to avoid the minor attack debuff effect for 15 secs?
Is there a genie skill that cancell effects on you?
I think I could use an spark eruption. and that could be a good trade, since he used two sparks to debuff and I just used one to counter it?
However, I rarely see people using normal attacks while fighting. Most of them are just using skills all the time.
BTW, I understand the debuff is probably only 10% rather than 50% as I thought before but still, I like to know if there is a counter, since I will be at 90% percent for 15 secs which could be enough to kill me.0 -
You can purify yourself with spark eruption/cleric/pill, stun-lock for 15 seconds, kite for 15 seconds, dragon and use your combos, etc.
Or you can simply stop and LOL at whoever that used Myriad on another BM, the word "noob" is not enough to describe that person.0 -
mmm combos, that one sounds nice; however, i just wanted to throw out this one to see if you think it would be effective..
Assume full chi, assume sage bm.
fissure (fire resist - 30%) > lion roar (so they dont go anywhere else) > Drakes breath bash (add 100% weapon damage in fire damage 15 seconds + 3k fire damage instant) > master lis technique (+50 chi) > glacial spike (-50% all resists) > cloud eruption level 10 (as soon as glacial consumes sparks for +2 sparks) > heavens flame (double damage + 2k fire over 6 second)> aeolin blade > atmos strike > farstrike (or use chi boost apoth item right after heavens and then drake bash > aeolin > atmos > farstrike)
This uses all four weapons to seriously mess something up, relies on first destroying their fire resistance with fissure, then hitting them with tons of fire damage via adding it with drakes, and then amplifying it more with glacial spike, followed then by heavens flame (bear in mind heavies will have low fire resistance to begin with, so said fire damage is loads more effective than your physical damage). If chi is available via apoth items, drake bash can be used, where it recieves bonus damage from fire, reduced enemy physical and magic resist, and does double because of heavens...plus stuns...now then we add on aeolin, which does 180% weapon damage at sage level, and will probably hit more than drake bash even, Atmos, which also hits very hard (tho will no longer be in heavens flame effect), then if they somehow still alive farstrike if they run...for once again insane damage (like 170% + 4000 or something).
Obvious flaws...tons of micromanagement, tho with practice, handling four weapons is a breeze, very ideal conditions (when does anyone have full chi to start with?). And then of course what if opponent runs, something misses, etc (human error..lol).
Also, is debatable as to whether a spark eruption would be more effective than drakes to start with, because as standing it uses approximatly 7.35 sparks, the max obtainable to use is i believe 8 or 8.5 in a row, so a 3rd level spark erupt could be another possibility ( base 399 chi + 50 sage technique + 200 cloud erupt +150-200 (not sure) high level chi boost item, applied as chi is used up because obviously cant hold all that much to start with). Said edit would require timing on chi boost skills/items to be moved slightly.
End of insane idea b:victory0 -
Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »You can purify yourself with spark eruption,
.
This is actually, where I asked myself if the skill failed or not. If I used an spark to purify myself. Still, we can argue that I;m not doing the real damage I would do if the skill was not on me. and we can argue too that I stop using a two spark skill to counter since I'm using one spark to counter him right?Lyndura- Lost City wrote: »stun-lock for 15 seconds, kite for 15 seconds, dragon and use your combos, etc.
.
If I stun luck the guy for 15 secs and attack him during that time. the attacks are still debuffed right? and we can argue again that the skill is still efective as the counter has not eliminated the debuff and I would try to stun luck him anyways, even if the skill was not applied on me right?
Kite for 15 secs, I would understand that the still actually perform way better since than rather of doing a 10% debuff as the skill user is not being attack at all for 15 secs. The skill has become a 100% deterrant then?
question:
can I purify myself with cleric/pill also when somebody attacked me with heavens flames?0 -
RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary wrote: »mmm combos, that one sounds nice; however, i just wanted to throw out this one to see if you think it would be effective..
Assume full chi, assume sage bm.
fissure (fire resist - 30%) > lion roar (so they dont go anywhere else) > Drakes breath bash (add 100% weapon damage in fire damage 15 seconds + 3k fire damage instant) > master lis technique (+50 chi) > glacial spike (-50% all resists) > cloud eruption level 10 (as soon as glacial consumes sparks for +2 sparks) > heavens flame (double damage + 2k fire over 6 second)> aeolin blade > atmos strike > farstrike (or use chi boost apoth item right after heavens and then drake bash > aeolin > atmos > farstrike)
This uses all four weapons to seriously mess something up, relies on first destroying their fire resistance with fissure, then hitting them with tons of fire damage via adding it with drakes, and then amplifying it more with glacial spike, followed then by heavens flame (bear in mind heavies will have low fire resistance to begin with, so said fire damage is loads more effective than your physical damage). If chi is available via apoth items, drake bash can be used, where it recieves bonus damage from fire, reduced enemy physical and magic resist, and does double because of heavens...plus stuns...now then we add on aeolin, which does 180% weapon damage at sage level, and will probably hit more than drake bash even, Atmos, which also hits very hard (tho will no longer be in heavens flame effect), then if they somehow still alive farstrike if they run...for once again insane damage (like 170% + 4000 or something).
Obvious flaws...tons of micromanagement, tho with practice, handling four weapons is a breeze, very ideal conditions (when does anyone have full chi to start with?). And then of course what if opponent runs, something misses, etc (human error..lol).
Also, is debatable as to whether a spark eruption would be more effective than drakes to start with, because as standing it uses approximatly 7.35 sparks, the max obtainable to use is i believe 8 or 8.5 in a row, so a 3rd level spark erupt could be another possibility ( base 399 chi + 50 sage technique + 200 cloud erupt +150-200 (not sure) high level chi boost item, applied as chi is used up because obviously cant hold all that much to start with). Said edit would require timing on chi boost skills/items to be moved slightly.
End of insane idea b:victory
1.- Why are you even using Drake Breath Bash? It only adds weapon damage to normal attacks, and it is 750 damage over 9 seconds, which still need to be reduced by fire resistance.
2.- By the time you use Glacial Spike your opponent will be already kitting you, since you don't have him/her stunned.
3.- By the time you use Heaven's Flame, Fissure effect will be already gone.
4.- Heaven Heaven's Flame sucks, 500 fire damage over 6 seconds which still will be reduced by Fire Resistance.
5.- If it is someone that decided to tank you, then if that person has Cleric's magic defense buff, then the whole combo becomes useless.
Just a waste of Chi and seems like a guy randomly using skills without knowing what to do.
@ Ganrey: Yes, you can purify any negative status.0 -
Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »1
@ Ganrey: Yes, you can purify any negative status.
if we can purify any negative status this game is weirdb:chuckle0 -
Someone finally posted some evidence for fists being cool on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar8102OO_rU
Unfortunately it's against a wooden stake.
Some things I noticed: Went demon, have full set of demon stuff, endgame weapons, and don't use swords at all (gasp, but they have sword skills), WTF at mana shards, dragon bane is not used at all in the video for achieving crits, lovely damage on glacial spike.
I have yet to see but one other person posting a video in favor of fists and using it as evidence for the position that fists are useful. Indeed, fists are useful for gathering chi it seems. I wish people would stop posting walls of text to try to prove that point. Make a damn video and show us please.0 -
I just have something I wanna say to this:
I have tryed making all forms of a BM,
never made it to lvl 30 on all of them,
I, however, never tried fist BMs, becuase of the things that everyone has said (it has not been me, don't flame me b:surrender)
I will say this:
to all you fist BMers out there, I am going to try a fist BM
see how I like it,
then post to all of you what I thought, my opinions, and wether I think it is nessicary...
thank you for you time b:thanks[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nah, I know what I am doing
-Famous last words from a dead freind of mine
b:victory0
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