SO I POSTED: xD
Comments
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Devoted - Lost City wrote: »
i'm not saying anyone who isn't fists blows, i'm saying anyone who uses 1 weapon endgame blows. use axe for leveling, tw, aoes and stunlock. use fists between stuns for best dps in pvp and use spear (farstrike, dragon emerge, smack) for range. b:cute
Using 1 weapon is expensive enough, I'm sure you know this too. Very few warriors have the money to use more than that. You need to master 2 skill tree which is already quite a few mil + refine/craft/socket/put stone into 2 weapons instead of one. It's not a matter of sucking at the game, it's a matter of not being rich.Devoted - Lost City wrote: »reading this thread makes me cry. i can't comprehend how flawed some of your guys' logic is. please don't say fists would be good but people won't stand there to tank the damage. give me a ****ing break. no weapon will be very good when no one is going to stand there and tank it. that's why we can stun people for 3 to 30+ seconds
The logic is pretty damn right if you're only using fists. You can definitely use fists and stun lock people if you swap weapons but that requires $$ as stated above. Hell even sword would be good in pvp using the same exact idea.
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no item to get is expensive it's all about having people willing to farm with you. 4 dynasty shadows for cv claw, that's the same for any other weapon and plenty of people are carrying cv bows and wands. when you are 100 there is nothing to do but farm or do what little pvp there is. for axes you obviously want zerk because it's devastating with drake bash and you use axes in tw and aoe's in group pvp so you either get gx or be smart and get the 100 gold past axes with zerk. which isn't hard at all because cv green is a joke and 2 tomb frags.. zerk has a high % chance. grade 13 weapon btw.
best spear would have to be the cv zerk one but for just a small percent of time you will be using it i recommend the 99 debuff spear. 1v1 against wb's and wr's it's amazing to proc the debuff before you drop dragon.
only thing expensive at real endgame is the refines and sockets. armor will eventually be farmed when there is nothing else to do, most people will have g9 from world bosses.. etc.
i'm not sure if this server will ever get real endgame with sept 22nd coming soon so i doubt many things i said will ever happen.
as for skills you only need the mastery's + farstrike, cyclone heel and everything else can be level 1 if you want it.
lion's roar > cylcone heel/relentless courage/wind shield > normal attacks > axe + drake bash > normal attacks > aoelean blade > normal attack > lion's roar.0 -
EricaPn - Heavens Tear wrote: »If You're In Heaven's Tear.... And Want To Try And Prove That You Can 2 Hit Me.... You'll Find Out The Very Very Hard Way...
You're Talking As If You Already Know How Fist Are..but You Dont..
Stop Being A Kid
No Bm In All 5 Server Can 2-3 Hit Me Even If I Stand Still... Dont You Ever Forget That... Go To Heaven's Tear And Ask For Me Be4 You Have Both Fist In Your Mouth
Rofl, talk about being a kid yet you insult. You're a bigger failure than I thought. Assuming people don't know anything is a great way to make yourself look like a idiot. "Don't you ever forget" LOL someones trying to blow their e-peen a bit much.
2 shotting you would be easy considering that either you're dumb and go LA or you're a strength / dex build with heavy armor with all hp coming from gear.
b:bye level 97 yet so dumb about you're own class.
Cya careabear
b:cute
Sinnerz Lost City PvP.0 -
Devoted - Lost City wrote: »no item to get is expensive it's all about having people willing to farm with you.
You have no idea how much that made me laugh.0 -
You have no idea how much that made me laugh.
inorite, too bad all my friends on lost city sold their accounts and quit lost city the second we all hit 9x
i got my gx faster than you btw. and mine isn't like +2 b:cute
i'm just gonna let this video do the talking.
http://zoome.jp/gattun/diary/280 -
EricaPn - Heavens Tear wrote: »If You're In Heaven's Tear.... And Want To Try And Prove That You Can 2 Hit Me.... You'll Find Out The Very Very Hard Way...
You're Talking As If You Already Know How Fist Are..but You Dont..
Stop Being A Kid
No Bm In All 5 Server Can 2-3 Hit Me Even If I Stand Still... Dont You Ever Forget That... Go To Heaven's Tear And Ask For Me Be4 You Have Both Fist In Your Mouth
Noob, read his signature.Devoted - Lost City wrote: »inorite, too bad all my friends on lost city sold their accounts and quit lost city the second we all hit 9x
i got my gx faster than you btw. and mine isn't like +2 b:cute
i'm just gonna let this video do the talking.
http://zoome.jp/gattun/diary/28
Arena, ground PvP, group PvP.
If you actually see, most of the videos of other versions will show using different weapons in the ground, but it is different when they are in air PvP or TW.
But yeah, they didn't have genies back then. So to solve all the discussion here, what will talk are the in game actions/events, which, in my opinion, are based on how much money one has.
It will take a while for someone in this version to have all the end-game weapons, because it requires a lot of farming/gold to get them. And the refinement comes in too, in those other versions getting gold was much cheaper than here, that really makes a huge difference.
When a lot of people are running around with 8jun weapons/armors, +12 refinement, 4 sockets with perfect shards, etc; it doesn't matter what weapon one uses, it is impossible to kill someone unless 2~4 people attack that person at the same time.
If you go to those other versions or even to private servers, you will see what I'm talking about.
And fear September 22th (20 for those of us who prepurchased <.<).0 -
Also, good luck chaining the weapon swapping/skills with the current lag/delay on PWI. Dunno about you but my ping is usually around 90-100ms. In korea they're all within the same area, so they play with 10-30ms at most.0
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Rofl, Talk About Being A Kid Yet You Insult. You're A Bigger Failure Than I Thought. Assuming People Don't Know Anything Is A Great Way To Make Yourself Look Like A Idiot. "don't You Ever Forget" Lol Someones Trying To Blow Their E-peen A Bit Much.
2 Shotting You Would Be Easy Considering That Either You're Dumb And Go La Or You're A Strength / Dex Build With Heavy Armor With All Hp Coming From Gear.
B:bye Level 97 Yet So Dumb About You're Own Class.
Cya Careabear
Are You Just Being Idiot? Read The Entire Thread..
Who Said Iam Light Armor? And Who Said Iam Full Str?..
You're Just Have No Idea What You're Talking About So I'll Just End It Right Here.. Bb Noob[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
ALSO
this thread isnt about and i didnt compare weapons nor anyone .
just simply asking why people putting down fist
you you all nutcases turn this thread into a mouth fighting .
so please either stay on the topic or just LEAVE IT ALONE---JESUS----[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Also, good luck chaining the weapon swapping/skills with the current lag/delay on PWI. Dunno about you but my ping is usually around 90-100ms. In korea they're all within the same area, so they play with 10-30ms at most.
i have no problem stunlocking people and switching weapons on harshlands. the only problem i had was when switching to axe to use drake bash sometimes it would normal attack with the axe before it proc'd drake bash but i found a secret way to get past that b:shutup. that's also the japanese server.
@lyn obviously in tw wr's use axes - look around that site there are plenty of videos with the same wr in tw. air pvp isn't much different than group pvp in terms of weapons. they also have genies, change the number at the end of the link to say 40 for more recent videos.
very few people have full +12 sets0 -
I will try and answer most of the arguementsb:shockedb:shockedI like how everyone tries to do calculations to prove fist is so godly.
If fist are so brokenly good why don't more people use them?
I like the fact the OP talked to people in other servers (aka servers that don't have same level cap or genies)
Sure I've seen fists **** on PRIVATE servers.
Not going to happen here.
Oh btw kind of my whole point is beat me in pvp 1 v 1 and ill shut up.
other wise watch as I pop a accuracy powder stun and 2 hit you fist users.
My god, who is trying to make fist godly? have u even read any of the post? whoever is trying make them godly probably doesnt know what theyre talking about, so u by saying u can 1 hit kill us? is like saying YOUR godly,All we fists want to prove is that we are not as weak as u axe bms think we are, we are being put down too much, u guys say that fist so sucks coz axe bms are showing off with their awesome zerk kills, berserk and what nutz saying u can 1 hit kill us, have u even really fought a fist with the same lvl as u? with the almost the same lvl gear as u? or u making this up coz ur calculating in ur head that fist have low hp,low vit,low def since we have dex? Let me remind u that a true fist build isnt LA, its heavy, so matter where u look at it, fists are still BMs with almost the same def as an axe so if no axe can i hit kill u, what makes u think those axe bms can 1 hit kill us? coz of HP? lol (not unless we stand by and watch u use flame and thunder)
LOL accuracy powders, ill throw in what i say in another thread, if ur gonna use those powders in a duel? hell ill use a dmg absorbing powder or healing powders and let see how well those dmgs do in 30 secs.
and i wish i can record videos so i can show u that even a pure str axe ,7 lvls ahead of me can never 1 hit kill me or beat me just to show how fists really works. Again my point is that fist isnt the god of all bm class, i just want u guys to accept that fists can do well as u axe bms do. EQUALITY GUYS!!!
ANd the reason why most peeps use axe is becoz most peeps had already experienced using them, unlike fist who until now doesnt have a proper guide and is being degraded.Moobysnax - Lost City wrote: »As far as PvP goes, I'm not sure how many people will actually sit there long enough for a fist BM to kill them.
lol melees and tankers such BMs and barbs will stand long enough, even when they see us fist start using sparks they wont run unless almost dead, u know why? coz theyre too damn proud to accept fists hurts. and as for mages and archers they always do run against any melee class, but there are difference on how each weapon kill their enemy kiters
axe deals lots of dmg meaning they just need to get close enough to land a few hits so they can kill u,
Fists just need to stun just once, and get u killed during stun time specially on robes and LAs. Coz again fists dont have that low dmg as u think we fists have, of cors if u compare us to that likes of an axe they do have better dmg per atk but then again total dmg u do and how fast u deliver it against a person is all that matters in the end of a 1v1(this is only againts 1 on 1 not againts pk fest or tws coz if the entire pvp is to be considered there are more ways than one to fight for every classes , fist and axe are not excluded)This game is much more gear-class based than skill based just like most MMORPGs out there. There reasons why Fist Warriors just don't cut it in PvP is because most of that PvP happens in the -Air- or in TW.
Again, who gets those special gears? the character or the player? not all can get those end game gears faster than active players so it all comes down that if u want ur char to be good and TRY to out best others its all up to the player its not up to the character.In TW no one that goes melee range to hit will get focus fired and die. Hell the only thing that gets to survive is a WB in tiger form with a lot of HP, EPs spamming heals and the WB using pots/turtle. An Axe warrior doesn't break the fight line to go fight melee range either. Most warriors will go in stun a general area, use an aoe skill or 2 and then they will kite back to their guild's fight line. Else that would just mean getting focused and dieing. Basically a Fist Warrior wouldn't get to do any damage there, they would get focused and die.
Yeah that is a possibility but a TW is a battle between factions and not fist against faction, what makes u think a fist will go ahead straight right into the enemy? like i said in another thread fist arent axe, those two weapons have different fighting styles and usage in pk and tws, fists are not axes who jumps staright right into battle and mass aoe them all and luckly and blindly kill any unlucky peeps around, fists are more like assassins, supports as the best dpser in a tw, charm breakers to whoever is gang **** by the the fist's squad as seen in devoteds vid dat is ONE example of how a fist supports in TW (almost like it but that was hybrid vid), so again if u want to be the the brave who heads into battle with chin up, be an axe but if u like sneaky stealer ALMOST like an archer be a fist.In Air PvP, if you don't have one of the fastest mount around, you will have a hard time catching up to your targets, so you will have to go for stationary targets that are already busy fighting and such. That goes for every warrior though. The difference is that an axe warrior as an additional stun that will keep the target stunned and chain stunned long enough to kill that one person, or those said person. Spear warriors have ranged and semi-ranged skills so they don't need to worry so much about that. Fist warriors have 1 reliable stun, and no ranged skill. Anyways, a fist warrior shouldn't be spamming skills at all because that would ruin their DPS. That being said you don't really have anything to keep your target standing still long enough to kill it. (You need to break that hiero and then kill the person). Doubt no one is dumb enough and stand still while they're getting it by a fist warrior when they can just kite that person off.
like i said in massive pk fest, fists and smart peeps with friends dont go alone in battle, if a player can purchase godly weapons im sure he can purchase fast mounts as well, and to break charms? the only thing fist would really have a hard time breakin one is on a barb and a high vit bm but among robes and LAs? 6 stun is enough to pull it off( a probability)ANd besides all Bms really do have a hard time breaking charms on any high vit and def melees, so its not really new to us, and of cors u wont try and break a barbs charm alone even if u have a chance against it... ur in a pk fest, get help ( and it doesnt mean when fists asks help we are weak, any Bms would do the same when they are in a pinch)Another advantage axe users have is that they have those berserk weapons that most fist/spear warriors will never get because most belial souls will be used on Gx at the exception of dumb people. Berserk is what gives Melee Classes some power in PvP, else you're not deadly, just annoying. Forgot to add that most spear skills have higher base damage than axe warriors skills so they can still deal some decent damage endgame + they have range. So that makes them a 2nd option.
well i guess when it comes to choosing and giving guides to newbies the easyiest path is axe and is easier to learn since like i said in another thread fists build is too complicated that is why most newbies mess their build up when it comes to fist that is why u axe think we are weak coz only few have pulled it off and their are more axe bms than fist meaning a lot of peeps to ask advice from.While Genies do give some skills that could help a fist user standing still for a longer period of time because of how broken those genies are. It definitely makes the class better than it was in PvP but unless you have some pretty godly gear I doubt the DPS will ever be enough to be compared the power that zerk gives to axe users. But if you do get that kind of gear then I'm pretty sure a fist warrior could deal some amazing damage out there.
Well of ur gonna compare godly geared axe to noob geared fist hell yeah fist will lose, but be fair will yeah a godly fist vs a godly axe is godly match isnt? the outcome is still debatable since not everyne have goldy gears and not everyone is a high lvl fist.
Genies wasnt only meant for fist so we are not the only who are benefited from them.Devoted - Lost City wrote: »reading this thread makes me cry. i can't comprehend how flawed some of your guys' logic is. please don't say fists would be good but people won't stand there to tank the damage. give me a ****ing break. no weapon will be very good when no one is going to stand there and tank it. that's why we can stun people for 3 to 30+ seconds. fists aren't good at all until endgame when attack speed stacks so high with 99 gear. get 2 pieces of 99 heavy, 2 99 light, decedal gods. that alone with no bonuses is 2.5 hits per second. now use cyclone kick, that's 2.8 per second. relentless courage: 3.25...
when you have 20% crit nothing will out dps fists. throw in the fact that refines and soulstones go further with fists it's quite obvious if you don't already have a preconceived rage against fists
i'm not saying anyone who isn't fists blows, i'm saying anyone who uses 1 weapon endgame blows. use axe for leveling, tw, aoes and stunlock. use fists between stuns for best dps in pvp and use spear (farstrike, dragon emerge, smack) for range. go visit any chinese or japanese official server b:cute
Yey! im hybrid so i dont blow lol ...Using 1 weapon is expensive enough, I'm sure you know this too. Very few warriors have the money to use more than that. You need to master 2 skill tree which is already quite a few mil + refine/craft/socket/put stone into 2 weapons instead of one. It's not a matter of sucking at the game, it's a matter of not being rich.
The logic is pretty damn right if you're only using fists. You can definitely use fists and stun lock people if you swap weapons but that requires $$ as stated above. Hell even sword would be good in pvp using the same exact idea.
Yeah money is a matter, thats why players who are addicted to the game are mostl likely to shine, but still perseverance and patience exist so if a player has dat he can pull that off, im poor but im have all weapons, not all skills maxed but still enough.
Yeah a sword can, but fist are better when it comes to normal atks per second meaning ur main weapon is a weapon u most likely will use everytime on normal occassions on normal battles or when normally atking an enemy.Devoted - Lost City wrote: »inorite, too bad all my friends on lost city sold their accounts and quit lost city the second we all hit 9x
i got my gx faster than you btw. and mine isn't like +2 b:cute
i'm just gonna let this video do the talking.
http://zoome.jp/gattun/diary/28
aww i wana post vids as well, too bad i cant... im glad having all weapons has already been proven by someone else so now i can push myself being a hybrid hehehe...Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »
Arena, ground PvP, group PvP.
If you actually see, most of the videos of other versions will show using different weapons in the ground, but it is different when they are in air PvP or TW.
yeah air means slower escape rate,cant use holy path and sprint, no running away that fast meaning mor chances for fists to have a grip on u. Most likely archers with increased range dominates in aerial battles and leaps for BMs are quite useful in aerial battles, u cant depend on accelerate to escape coz stun, +atks and u trying to slowly escape means a lot dmg dealt on u already, use drake (if hybrid use spirit chaser for sword) then bring out ur bow. most likely would work against running robes and LAs but to melees theyd rather risk standing still than take all those dmg just trying to escape. That for an aerial battle 1v1 but in pk fest its another story most likely all BMs whether fist or axe would try and get away from range and when they get a grip on any melees or any enemies im sure even axe will try and not let them go it means they wont take time trying to make evasive actions against fist whenb it comes to aerial, manuevering in air is really different in air.Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »And fear September 22th (20 for those of us who prepurchased <.<).
hmm what will happen in sep 22th? i dont think i am that old to know dat >.<Also, good luck chaining the weapon swapping/skills with the current lag/delay on PWI. Dunno about you but my ping is usually around 90-100ms. In korea they're all within the same area, so they play with 10-30ms at most.
its really just a matter of getting used to it, once u started to get used to it swapping weapons would become a reflex so dat u can swap at the moment u wanted to swap.0 -
Devoted - Lost City wrote: »inorite, too bad all my friends on lost city sold their accounts and quit lost city the second we all hit 9x
i got my gx faster than you btw. and mine isn't like +2 b:cute
i'm just gonna let this video do the talking.
http://zoome.jp/gattun/diary/28
Wow thanks for posting the video its really interesting seeing an endgame warrior in action. On another note notice how he didn't use swords once. xD"you want 1by1 go play tekken la"0 -
I will try and answer most of the arguementsb:shockedb:shocked
My god, who is trying to make fist godly? have u even read any of the post? whoever is trying make them godly probably doesnt know what theyre talking about, so u by saying u can 1 hit kill us? is like saying YOUR godly,All we fists want to prove is that we are not as weak as u axe bms think we are, we are being put down too much, u guys say that fist so sucks coz axe bms are showing off with their awesome zerk kills, berserk and what nutz saying u can 1 hit kill us, have u even really fought a fist with the same lvl as u? with the almost the same lvl gear as u? or u making this up coz ur calculating in ur head that fist have low hp,low vit,low def since we have dex? Let me remind u that a true fist build isnt LA, its heavy, so matter where u look at it, fists are still BMs with almost the same def as an axe so if no axe can i hit kill u, what makes u think those axe bms can 1 hit kill us? coz of HP? lol (not unless we stand by and watch u use flame and thunder)
LOL accuracy powders, ill throw in what i say in another thread, if ur gonna use those powders in a duel? hell ill use a dmg absorbing powder or healing powders and let see how well those dmgs do in 30 secs.
and i wish i can record videos so i can show u that even a pure str axe ,7 lvls ahead of me can never 1 hit kill me or beat me just to show how fists really works. Again my point is that fist isnt the god of all bm class, i just want u guys to accept that fists can do well as u axe bms do. EQUALITY GUYS!!!
ANd the reason why most peeps use axe is becoz most peeps had already experienced using them, unlike fist who until now doesnt have a proper guide and is being degraded.
lol melees and tankers such BMs and barbs will stand long enough, even when they see us fist start using sparks they wont run unless almost dead, u know why? coz theyre too damn proud to accept fists hurts. and as for mages and archers they always do run against any melee class, but there are difference on how each weapon kill their enemy kiters
axe deals lots of dmg meaning they just need to get close enough to land a few hits so they can kill u,
Fists just need to stun just once, and get u killed during stun time specially on robes and LAs. Coz again fists dont have that low dmg as u think we fists have, of cors if u compare us to that likes of an axe they do have better dmg per atk but then again total dmg u do and how fast u deliver it against a person is all that matters in the end of a 1v1(this is only againts 1 on 1 not againts pk fest or tws coz if the entire pvp is to be considered there are more ways than one to fight for every classes , fist and axe are not excluded)
Again, who gets those special gears? the character or the player? not all can get those end game gears faster than active players so it all comes down that if u want ur char to be good and TRY to out best others its all up to the player its not up to the character.
Yeah that is a possibility but a TW is a battle between factions and not fist against faction, what makes u think a fist will go ahead straight right into the enemy? like i said in another thread fist arent axe, those two weapons have different fighting styles and usage in pk and tws, fists are not axes who jumps staright right into battle and mass aoe them all and luckly and blindly kill any unlucky peeps around, fists are more like assassins, supports as the best dpser in a tw, charm breakers to whoever is gang **** by the the fist's squad as seen in devoteds vid dat is ONE example of how a fist supports in TW (almost like it but that was hybrid vid), so again if u want to be the the brave who heads into battle with chin up, be an axe but if u like sneaky stealer ALMOST like an archer be a fist.
like i said in massive pk fest, fists and smart peeps with friends dont go alone in battle, if a player can purchase godly weapons im sure he can purchase fast mounts as well, and to break charms? the only thing fist would really have a hard time breakin one is on a barb and a high vit bm but among robes and LAs? 6 stun is enough to pull it off( a probability)ANd besides all Bms really do have a hard time breaking charms on any high vit and def melees, so its not really new to us, and of cors u wont try and break a barbs charm alone even if u have a chance against it... ur in a pk fest, get help ( and it doesnt mean when fists asks help we are weak, any Bms would do the same when they are in a pinch)
well i guess when it comes to choosing and giving guides to newbies the easyiest path is axe and is easier to learn since like i said in another thread fists build is too complicated that is why most newbies mess their build up when it comes to fist that is why u axe think we are weak coz only few have pulled it off and their are more axe bms than fist meaning a lot of peeps to ask advice from.
Well of ur gonna compare godly geared axe to noob geared fist hell yeah fist will lose, but be fair will yeah a godly fist vs a godly axe is godly match isnt? the outcome is still debatable since not everyne have goldy gears and not everyone is a high lvl fist.
Genies wasnt only meant for fist so we are not the only who are benefited from them.
Yey! im hybrid so i dont blow lol ...
Yeah money is a matter, thats why players who are addicted to the game are mostl likely to shine, but still perseverance and patience exist so if a player has dat he can pull that off, im poor but im have all weapons, not all skills maxed but still enough.
Yeah a sword can, but fist are better when it comes to normal atks per second meaning ur main weapon is a weapon u most likely will use everytime on normal occassions on normal battles or when normally atking an enemy.
aww i wana post vids as well, too bad i cant... im glad having all weapons has already been proven by someone else so now i can push myself being a hybrid hehehe...
yeah air means slower escape rate,cant use holy path and sprint, no running away that fast meaning mor chances for fists to have a grip on u. Most likely archers with increased range dominates in aerial battles and leaps for BMs are quite useful in aerial battles, u cant depend on accelerate to escape coz stun, +atks and u trying to slowly escape means a lot dmg dealt on u already, use drake (if hybrid use spirit chaser for sword) then bring out ur bow. most likely would work against running robes and LAs but to melees theyd rather risk standing still than take all those dmg just trying to escape. That for an aerial battle 1v1 but in pk fest its another story most likely all BMs whether fist or axe would try and get away from range and when they get a grip on any melees or any enemies im sure even axe will try and not let them go it means they wont take time trying to make evasive actions against fist whenb it comes to aerial, manuevering in air is really different in air.
hmm what will happen in sep 22th? i dont think i am that old to know dat >.<
its really just a matter of getting used to it, once u started to get used to it swapping weapons would become a reflex so dat u can swap at the moment u wanted to swap.
tl;dr
try posting without making peoples eyes bleed.b:cute
Sinnerz Lost City PvP.0 -
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Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »he still have some stuff to learnb:laugh
he used the utimate axes skill couple times, I would have used myriad.b:victory
Still, he might not have a good sword.
no he was using the axe curse buff on enemies, so dat his atk dmg would be amplified, well if an axe does the same to u and u are a sword use myriad to counter that since myriad decreases the enemies physical and magical atks,
he probably didnt use sword much since sword skills doesnt have much use in pvp but still having sword skills is a must for hybrid, mage bane and shadowless kick to counter those freakin mages with so freakin fast casting gears. And spirit chaser for a 2nd drake. but he didnt had the chance to use it since they killed almost all their targets during stun time0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »(501+554)*0.5*1.43=754
(582+1358)*0.5*.83=805
However, I always add shards on my weapons. lets add two shards of +50 each on both weapons. In other words we add 100 on each weapon with shards.
100*1.43=143=>754+143=897
100*0.83=83=>805+83=888
now both weapons are kind of the same. However, the chi created on fists should break the tie.
another thing I forgot to mention here, is that rings can have the same effects as the shards. Rather than adding two shards you can have two rings that add at least 60+ each. in other words you are adding 120 per attack
if you have the rings and the shards (120+100).
220*1.43=314=>750+314.6=1064
220*0.83=182.6=>805+182.6=987
in this case. fists are doing almost 8% more damage per second. and this is without going to refines which would make things go even better for the fists as I have shown in another previous post.0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »he still have some stuff to learnb:laugh
he used the utimate axes skill couple times, I would have used myriad.b:victory
Still, he might not have a good sword.
myriad wouldn't hit very hard at all compared to the 10+ hits he could have got in with dragon, in that video you actually see another warrior pull out the firelotus blade but instantly change weapons xD. also you see another warrior with the 99 green debuff spear trying to debuff that warrior.
i like the barb in the middle just normal attacking with cv bow trying to debuff people xD0 -
Devoted - Lost City wrote: »myriad wouldn't hit very hard at all compared to the 10+ hits he could have got in with dragon, in that video you actually see another warrior pull out the firelotus blade but instantly change weapons xD. also you see another warrior with the 99 green debuff spear trying to debuff that warrior.
i like the barb in the middle just normal attacking with cv bow trying to debuff people xD
myriad
Turn one's vigor into an immense sword to strike down the enemy.
Within 12.0 meters of the target adds 200% weapon physical
damage your base physical damage plus an additional 6096.8 damaging all
enemies and reducing their physical and magical attack 50% for 15 seconds.
heavens flame
Leap onto the opponent using your mana to summon a blazing
fire dragon dealing base physical damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 4135.7. Damages all enemies
within 12 meters of the target and causes them to suffer 100% of that
damage over 6 seconds.
I always ask myself this question though regarding flames. the conflicting part for me is the
"and causes them to suffer 100% of that
damage over 6 seconds."
what is the total damage of this skill?
weapon damage: 2,000
skill 4,135
damage on 6 secs: 4135?
total=10,270?
myriad:
weapon damage:1500x 150%=2250
skill=6,096.8
total=8,346.00
about= 10,270-8,346= 1,924. this does not look much to me, so lets say the difference was actually 4,000 for the sake of the argument.
if you consider all damage done by your enemies will be reduced by 50% for 15secs. That damage reduction should be way higher than 4,000.
So I think in most cases myriad will be ahead.0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »in this case. fists are doing almost 8% more damage per second. and this is without going to refines which would make things go even better for the fists as I have shown in another previous post.
Did your previous post about refines take into account this claim about fists not getting good refines?0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »myriad
Turn one's vigor into an immense sword to strike down the enemy.
Within 12.0 meters of the target adds 200% weapon physical
damage your base physical damage plus an additional 6096.8 damaging all
enemies and reducing their physical and magical attack 50% for 15 seconds.
heavens flame
Leap onto the opponent using your mana to summon a blazing
fire dragon dealing base physical damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 4135.7. Damages all enemies
within 12 meters of the target and causes them to suffer 100% of that
damage over 6 seconds.
Lol.
Heaven's flame amplifies the damage one deals to the opponent by xx% (depending on the skill level). At level 10, the opponent will take 100% more damage for 6 seconds (9 seconds with the Hell version).
So basically you deal double damage for the duration of the skill.0 -
Sinense - Sanctuary wrote: »Did our previous post about refines take into account this claim about fists not getting good refines?
sorry, I could not understand the table.
but regarding the refines I was going per pwdatabase/pwi
in which the two weapons were getting the same amount of damage incremental per attack on each refine.
I guess one of the two sources might be wrong, in case the website you are showing implies that fists gets less damage incremental per refine.0 -
Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »Lol.
Heaven's flame amplifies the damage one deals to the opponent by xx% (depending on the skill level). At level 10, the opponent will take 100% more damage for 6 seconds (9 seconds with the Hell version).
So basically you deal double damage for the duration of the skill.
ok so a better number should be 12,270vs8,346.00
difference about= 3,924.00. Lest say the difference is 6k for the sake of the argument
I still think myriad is ahead in most cases as you will reduce your oppnent damage by 50% for 15 secs
my current toon can do 3,753.75 damage per second in normal attack with my current fists.
15secsx3753=56k. So, 50% of that is 28k way bigger than 6k.
So, I still dont think why flames is better. I guess flames is better in cases, your enemy will not attack you or your allies.0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »ok so a better number should be 12,270vs8,346.00
difference about= 3,924.00. Lest say the difference is 6k for the sake of the argument
I still think myriad is ahead in most cases as you will reduce your oppnent damage by 50% for 15 secs
my current toon can do 3,753.75 damage per second in normal attack with my current fists.
15secsx3753=56k. So, 50% of that is 28k way bigger than 6k.
So, I still dont think why flames is better. I guess flames is better in cases, your enemy will not attack you or your allies.
I think you still don't get what Heaven's Flame do.
When you use Heaven's Flame, everyone in a range of 20 meters will get hit and take damage, on top of that they will get an Status, that will AMPLIFY all the incoming damage by 100% for the next 6~9 seconds.
That means if you were hitting by 3k now the next 6 second you will hit by 6k, if you crit you will hit by 12k and if you berserker and crit you will hit by 24k.
And it doesn't only affects you, anyone attacking your opponent will be able to use the effect too.
If a Wizard was dealing 5k damage, now it will be 10k damage, etc.
Heaven's Flame is better 99% of the time (and that 1% is when the party is messing up the things).
Let's say you have a BladeMaster, Wizard, Archer, Cleric, Veno and Barbarian in your party.
Now, let's say they will fight a boss. Myriad is not reliable since it has a 30 seconds cooldown and only works a few seconds on bosses. That means the party will have to set up bubble/heals/tank to be able to take the boss down, with that done, Myriad is already useless.
So what you can do is use Dragon every 30 seconds so your party can deal double damage for 6 seconds and they can kill the boss MUCH faster. Everyone will be dealing double damage.
In PvP Heaven's Flame is always better, dealing double damage means increasing the chance to one-shot or just kill the opponent, for you or anyone that is attacking the opponents affected.
Myriad is pretty much useless because it only reduces physical/magial attack by 50%, which is just around 15% of their real damage. Genie skills or a pill are much better instead of wasting 2 sparks on that.0 -
ok, now I understand the skill thoughb:chuckle.
but still I'm not too convinced since in flames your party gets an attack buff of 100% while in myriad your enemy gets an attack defuff of 50%. This should be equivalent. Unless the formulas are bugged.
However, if one last 15 secs and the other last only 6 secs. myriad should be ahead, unless if bugged again.
On my experience with bosses, the real issue is if you can take the damage the boss make since your attack will always be good enough to kill him sooner or later. I dont recall failing on a boss for lack of atttack but rather for lack of defence.
I wonder why reducing attack by 50% means only 15% while increasing attack by 100% is still 100% for you?0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »ok, now I understand the skill thoughb:chuckle.
but still I'm not too convinced since in flames your party gets an attack buff of 100% while in myriad your enemy gets an attack defuff of 50%. This should be equivalent. Unless the formulas are bugged.
On my experience with bosses, the real issue is if you can take the damage the boss make since your attack will always be good enough to kill him sooner or later. I dont recall failing on a boss for lack of atttack but rather for lack of defence.
I wonder why reducing attack by 50% means only 15% while increasing attack by 100% is still 100% for you?
When you have a party that knows what it is doing, Myriad is useless, and when you use Heaven's Flame you can see a bunch of HP going down from the Boss' HP bar.
Heaven's Flame amplifies the damage by 100%. That means the final damage with all variables and formulas already made.
Myriad only reduces physical/magical attack NOT damage. That means all the other variables and formulas still need to be taken into consideration.
For example: Hell Black Ice Dragon Strike
Focus one's energy and summon a water dragon that soars up to the sky and smashes onto the target and all surrounding enemies. Target and enemies 12.0 meters around target suffer Water damage equal to base magic attack plus 500% of weapon damage plus 13955.0. Has a 95%
chance to slow enemies by 60% for 8.0 seconds and a chance to cast without consuming Mana.
When you use Myriad, you will only reduce the base magic attack by 50% (the part in red), but you won't reduce the 500% weapon damage or the 13,955 add-on damage. It won't reduce the mastery either or any debuffs. And the formulas for defenses still need to be made.0 -
Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »When you have a party that knows what it is doing, Myriad is useless, and when you use Heaven's Flame you can see a bunch of HP going down from the Boss' HP bar.
Heaven's Flame amplifies the damage by 100%. That means the final damage with all variables and formulas already made.
Myriad only reduces physical/magical attack NOT damage. That means all the other variables and formulas still need to be taken into consideration.
For example: Hell Black Ice Dragon Strike
Focus one's energy and summon a water dragon that soars up to the sky and smashes onto the target and all surrounding enemies. Target and enemies 12.0 meters around target suffer Water damage equal to base magic attack plus 500% of weapon damage plus 13955.0. Has a 95%
chance to slow enemies by 60% for 8.0 seconds and a chance to cast without consuming Mana.
When you use Myriad, you will only reduce the base magic attack by 50% (the part in red), but you won't reduce the 500% weapon damage or the 13,955 add-on damage. It won't reduce the mastery either or any debuffs. And the formulas for defenses still need to be made.
I totally understand your post.
Again you rarely fail on a bosses for lack of attack but for lacking defence. On a boss I;m never concerned on his hp, I;m only concern with my squad HP.
Regarding physical attack , final damage. You are assuming they are not directly proporcional. You should bring some prove they are not.
final damage should be a percentage of your attack, a good hint, is that when you click on your defence stat, you will get a message saying:
"physical damage from enemies at your level will be reduced by x%"
however, I will not beat my life on it lol.
if it is a % then they are directly proporcional.
for instance:
attack 200
defence X%
flames
attack 200x2=400
defence=X%
=> final damage=400*X%
Myriad
attack=200
defence=2X%
=> final damage= 400*X%
Again if they are not directly proporcional you might be right. if they are not, myriad has an advange due to 15 secs rather than 6 secs.0 -
Perhaps you should go to the actual game and test both skills, and find your answers, instead of typing assumptions.
I know them already, so I don't assume.0 -
Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »Perhaps you should go to the actual game and test both skills, and find your answers, instead of typing assumptions.
I know them already, so I don't assume.
We are both assuming since you are not proving why they the final damage is not directly proporcional to attacks.
Still though 15 secs should make a difference compared to 6 secs.
However, I admit in a boss case a smart squad can team up to have their best skills applied during those 6 secs. while the boss will do the same attacks on those 15 secs regardless if the skill is on or not.0 -
I actually can prove it, I told you, go in game and test the skill, there is my proof.
Why is it that way? I don't know, ask the developers.0
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