Part two of the veno argument: Do you agree or disagree with this idea?

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  • Jrudora - Lost City
    Jrudora - Lost City Posts: 445 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i wish you people would stop QQing about "bleed" because it does what it is supposed to do. damage over time. 9 seconds for 1-2 extra hits. same thing as if you'd been poisoned.

    Way to destroy any credibility that all venomancers have been trying to earn.
    Talk for yourself.

    Look at every other class' bleed skills.
    Tell me if it does no reduced damage in pvp.

    Saitada gives us some good arguments.
    You? None.
  • Szioul - Heavens Tear
    Szioul - Heavens Tear Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »
    Keep in mind those who have a lot of pvp experience started off as archers because archers are widely regarded as the strongest pvp oriented characters.
    While many argue that if venos were so overpowered, people should all roll venos, that's not necessarily true.

    After all, those with pvp rankings usually earned it far before phoenixes were out.
    Not many are willing to throw away months of hardwork to roll a new class simply because of one little flesh ream.

    Having a phoenix doesn't magically give you 100+ hours to go pking to top ranking.
    Its earned over periods of time. Its not enough proof to say that just because Venos are on the lower count of pvp ranking, to say their flesh ream doesn't give them an advantage.

    People simply prefer to stick with the class they've spent months on.

    This is absolutely true. Phoenixes weren't out until Dec.3. So the rankings Saitada posted, are closest to the truth on Sanctuary, but still not accurate. Once the new servers come online, their rankings will be the most accurate.
    Legion: Sentinel
    Clan: RisenSky
  • Nubble - Heavens Tear
    Nubble - Heavens Tear Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    but u all knew that nix/herc will come soon or later on this version... since atleast 75% of players are from other versions ..so why u didnt make veno when u started here cuz u KNEW it will be so superpower class as u all say and
    cuz veno is so easy to lvl and kill all mobs on map.. just make one it shouldnt take much time like 3 weeks or so and ur like lvl70+ as u ppl say and go to solo TT and tel ur opinions...and what comes to bleed..i dunno much abt it but what i know archers/bm's/clerics/barbi's kill veno in 1 sec cuz of wearing arcane armor and nix's bleed wont help..and if u havent noticed that if u are veno and in pk mode on in SP and safe zone ppl can kill ur pet just like that even if ur safe zone :)
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Nubble - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    but u all knew that nix/herc will come soon or later on this version... since atleast 75% of players are from other versions ..so why u didnt make veno when u started here cuz u KNEW it will be so superpower class as u all say and
    cuz veno is so easy to lvl and kill all mobs on map.. just make one it shouldnt take much time like 3 weeks or so and ur like lvl70+ as u ppl say and go to solo TT and tel ur opinions

    Ah yes, this is true. Most of the players here came from other versions of PW. They were well aware of the phoenix and what it could do.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Semyezza - Heavens Tear
    Semyezza - Heavens Tear Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Ayreon - Lost City wrote: »
    You're an idiot.

    That's the best thing I've heard so far. b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "I. LIKE. TO. KILL. THINGS."
    - Richard the Warlock, LFG.

    visit my gallery on !! quelfish.deviantart.com !!
  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »
    Way to destroy any credibility that all venomancers have been trying to earn.
    Talk for yourself.

    Look at every other class' bleed skills.
    Tell me if it does no reduced damage in pvp.

    Saitada gives us some good arguments.
    You? None.

    like i said a few times in the other thread, i have not noticed bleed/flesh ream to do higher damage than anything else in pvp. so either my phoenix sucks or everybody is over-reacting.
  • Jrudora - Lost City
    Jrudora - Lost City Posts: 445 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    It doesn't do "higher" damage in pvp.. it does the "same" damage.
    That's why it is overpowered.
    If I could do full damage on you as a mage in pvp, do you think you'd live a simple level 1 pitfall from me? That's 6.4k damage PvE.

    All skills/damage should be reduced by some huge percent% in pvp (or something in those figures).
    Flesh Ream does not.

    Clear?
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »
    like i said a few times in the other thread, i have not noticed bleed/flesh ream to do higher damage than anything else in pvp. so either my phoenix sucks or everybody is over-reacting.

    Ok fine, when I get my phoenix in a few weeks, I'll test this myself once I get it upto a decent level.

    700 feathers and counting.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Obsessed - Heavens Tear
    Obsessed - Heavens Tear Posts: 670 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    chipsing1234 wrote: »
    Consider this.
    1. How many do you know have +12 weapons? What level are they? What level do most venos get phoenixes these days? What's with the huge level difference (exp wise)?
    2. How much does it cost to get +12 weapons? A 4 star refine orb costs 5 gold 60 silver. At base gold prices, 5.6 mil. That's for plus FOUR. If you add 3*, 2* and 1* required to even use the 4* orb, that's 5.6 mil + 2.25 mil + 90k + 20k. 7.9 mil already. Make from +5 to + 12 refine orbs, and tell me the total cost. Seeing as how the price over doubles from orb to orb, it would cost way over 20 mil to get +12.
    Don't even talk about demon venos. We're talking about the game in general, not the people who actually play long enough to get past lvl 89. Many will never even see that level.
    Edit: Oh wait, 5* dragon orb costs 13 gold. Man we're already over 20 mil at 5*s.

    I lawled at your number 2, 5g 60s = 560k, not 5.6mil. Also if you make the orbs with 1star orbs its much cheaper.

    Learn to math.
  • chipsing1234
    chipsing1234 Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I lawled at your number 2, 5g 60s = 560k, not 5.6mil. Also if you make the orbs with 1star orbs its much cheaper.

    Learn to math.

    Hmm that was a pretty big mistake on my part, I apologize.
    So let's disregard that. Fact is, when are you going to get + 12? Not until 9xes. Venos can get phoenix at any level they want. Plus, the amount of wealth they'll be able to garner from it will probably allow them to have high refined equips by lvl 9x.
  • Vixentriel - Heavens Tear
    Vixentriel - Heavens Tear Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    No.

    Venos are known to be able to solo, Theyr easy to pk, Like it or not, they have very week defence.

    They dont have superb skills like other classes ,and rely on ther pet SPECIFICLY.
  • Jitora - Lost City
    Jitora - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Vixentriel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    No.

    Venos are known to be able to solo, Theyr easy to pk, Like it or not, they have very week defence.

    They dont have superb skills like other classes ,and rely on ther pet SPECIFICLY.

    Heavy Veno anyone?...*Crickets*
  • Vixentriel - Heavens Tear
    Vixentriel - Heavens Tear Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Magical weap anyone????
  • hysteriumx
    hysteriumx Posts: 94 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh blah.

    ~S

    You're an idiot. Every veno in each server doesn't have a phoenix, and there are PLENTY of people below 93 on LC that are Venos, so much for your facts. You take 50 people from each of the 3 servers with a population of god knows how many and use that as an accurate justification of the whole? kkfailmoreplz.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ok fine, when I get my phoenix in a few weeks, I'll test this myself once I get it upto a decent level.

    700 feathers and counting.

    Or just use a pet that already has it if it's just for testing purposes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    The phoenix is the thing they complain about, the phoenix with the skill. Person I quoted before said theirs didn't do much damage with it. I plan to find out for myself.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Ren - Lost City
    Ren - Lost City Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jitora - Lost City wrote: »
    Heavy Veno anyone?...*Crickets*

    You forget that heavy foxes waste 120ish stats to equip heavy (which is mainly obtained from gear).
    Light is better, you can put those 120 stats on con instead, and gear adding int dex or str can also be resetted into con.

    Light has massively more hp and thus more overall survival than heavy, and much easier to stat for. Plus, they crit more, meaning more dps.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.
  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »
    It doesn't do "higher" damage in pvp.. it does the "same" damage.
    That's why it is overpowered.
    If I could do full damage on you as a mage in pvp, do you think you'd live a simple level 1 pitfall from me? That's 6.4k damage PvE.

    All skills/damage should be reduced by some huge percent% in pvp (or something in those figures).
    Flesh Ream does not.

    Clear?

    first of all, you need to drop the attitude. second, maybe i didnt word it clearly enough... i *DO* notice a reduction with flesh ream in pvp. same reduction i notice with regular hits from the nix. that's what i meant.
  • Aerilius - Heavens Tear
    Aerilius - Heavens Tear Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Copied/pasted from another thread, in response to a question of what exactly could be used as items for the other classes to use:

    "Maybe archers could get an endless supply of arrows. Maybe wizards could get a reduction on the MP cost of skills. Maybe barbarians could get a Flesh Ream that deals double damage or double length. Maybe blademasters could an increase in attack rate. I don't know, but there are too many different things to think of that could be implemented in the game, priced at whatever the price of a nix/herc is, and people would buy them. AND venomancers or the Flesh Ream of their phoenixes wouldn't have to be nerfed. Nobody would have much reason to complain anymore.

    But no, apparently I'm just a total moron for even questioning the options venomancers are given. Please, I'm so sorry for trying to find a solution that would please everyone. I truly am an idiot, aren't I."

    I want responses. Feedback. Instead of calling me an idiot (how mature, really), tell me why my idea won't work, and why so many venomancers are against it, when all I'm trying to do is find an idea that would avoid venomancers/phoenixes being nerfed and at the same time stop all the other classes from complaining. I'm trying to HELP.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2520089001&dateline=1235021362[/SIGPIC]
  • Obsessed - Heavens Tear
    Obsessed - Heavens Tear Posts: 670 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Copied/pasted from another thread, in response to a question of what exactly could be used as items for the other classes to use:

    "Maybe archers could get an endless supply of arrows. Maybe wizards could get a reduction on the MP cost of skills. Maybe barbarians could get a Flesh Ream that deals double damage or double length. Maybe blademasters could an increase in attack rate. I don't know, but there are too many different things to think of that could be implemented in the game, priced at whatever the price of a nix/herc is, and people would buy them. AND venomancers or the Flesh Ream of their phoenixes wouldn't have to be nerfed. Nobody would have much reason to complain anymore.

    But no, apparently I'm just a total moron for even questioning the options venomancers are given. Please, I'm so sorry for trying to find a solution that would please everyone. I truly am an idiot, aren't I."

    I want responses. Feedback. Instead of calling me an idiot (how mature, really), tell me why my idea won't work, and why so many venomancers are against it, when all I'm trying to do is find an idea that would avoid venomancers/phoenixes being nerfed and at the same time stop all the other classes from complaining. I'm trying to HELP.
    It wont work because we have no say, what-so-ever, in any part of this game.

    The dev's are in china. You're not helping anyone by making countless pointless threads.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Thats the problem Aerilius. Too many people will never stop complaining for 2 reasons.

    1: They are not happy unless they are complaining
    2: They want their class to be the best in the game at everything and will try to get every other class nerfed so this happens.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Jitora - Lost City
    Jitora - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Thats the problem Aerilius. Too many people will never stop complaining for 2 reasons.

    1: They are not happy unless they are complaining
    2: They want their class to be the best in the game at everything and will try to get every other class nerfed so this happens.

    I agree..and I get told to stop QQing quite a bit..though I believe my problems have merit rather than screaming "XXXXXX killed me they are overpowered"...My class is losing ground to a veno pet...FAST, and thats a real problem.
  • Cat - Heavens Tear
    Cat - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I'm trying to HELP.

    Ill make a special guest appearance in this thread..


    Just what are you trying to help lol? Out of ALL these threads made a few people may agree with you but in every single one, in every single poll, the majority of the people DONT agree with you..So your really not helping the majority of the game..

    And yes after all these posts, all of the same arguements, all of the same ideas, all of the same back and forth.. I have to agree with 1 thing..

    Your an idiot.. Stop making these threads already, suck it up and get on with your gaming life.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
    -Saitada

    Didn't anyone tell you that you wanted to sleep with me?!?! I thought you knew....
  • Aerilius - Heavens Tear
    Aerilius - Heavens Tear Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Your an idiot.. Stop making these threads already, suck it up and get on with your gaming life.

    Fine, I will. I didn't know that PWI had no control over what was introduced into the game, content-wise. I thought that the GM's might have had some direct sway over what items, events, etc. go into the game, and that they might notice this thread. I was wrong. What I didn't know was that people would literally start insulting me for trying to be creative.

    By the way:
    Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Your an idiot

    Such irony.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2520089001&dateline=1235021362[/SIGPIC]
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Making a single +12 item requires a combined total of 10140 dragon orbs and will cost $3,042. This is about 10 times the cost of a pheonix and herc combined for just one item.
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  • Ren - Lost City
    Ren - Lost City Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Making a single +12 item requires a combined total of 10140 dragon orbs and will cost $3,042. This is about 10 times the cost of a pheonix and herc combined for just one item.

    And it's only going to let you solo 30 foxes at once if your entire armor set is +12. That's +1200-1700hp per piece of armor, depending what armor it is.

    With a +12 weapon mages archers and wbs will be 2 shotting birds. And one shotting foxes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.
  • Jeagerjaques - Lost City
    Jeagerjaques - Lost City Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Ren - Lost City wrote: »
    And it's only going to let you solo 30 foxes at once if your entire armor set is +12. That's +1200-1700hp per piece of armor, depending what armor it is.

    With a +12 weapon mages archers and wbs will be 2 shotting birds. And one shotting foxes.

    Are you absolutely MAD?! We are not all Deities. Full +12 armor, as stated above, and a +12 weapon, will take approximately 18 GRAND!!! No ordinary person will have the money (or the desire) to spend ANYWHERE near that to simply "own" another person.

    And as for the CS pets, Hercules makes me feel inferiorb:cryb:cryb:surrender
    Damn right I'm good in bed! I can sleep for HOURSb:victory
  • Tigriss - Heavens Tear
    Tigriss - Heavens Tear Posts: 760 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    You got some really bad Veno-envy. Either that or your too lazy to make your main better then a veno. Which is entirely doable for anyone that isn't lazy. So you just want to nerf the veno so you have to do less work to be better.
    "Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
    -Saitada
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thankies Crystalynnex
  • Aerilius - Heavens Tear
    Aerilius - Heavens Tear Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Tigriss - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You got some really bad Veno-envy. Either that or your too lazy to make your main better then a veno. Which is entirely doable for anyone that isn't lazy. So you just want to nerf the veno so you have to do less work to be better.

    WRONG! For god's sake, have you read ANYTHING I said?? I do not want to nerf the veno at all, or its pets! Instead, I thought introducing comparable items priced the same as the herc/nix to the other classes might balance things out a bit, and stop the everlasting complaining that you, the venomancers, hate so much.

    Doesn't matter though, everyone was right. Nothing will change.

    I should infiltrate PWI headquarters and code my idea straight into the game while nobody is watching... they'll never see it coming...
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2520089001&dateline=1235021362[/SIGPIC]
  • Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear
    Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear Posts: 802 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

    I should infiltrate PWI headquarters and code my idea straight into the game while nobody is watching... they'll never see it coming...

    And they will probably never notice either until a MOD here tells them, lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will never do anything in this world without courage.
    It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.
    ~Aristotle

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