The current class balance
suggestionman#1119
Posts: 39 Arc User
The 3 main highly unbalanced mechanics in pvp in this game are :
1) Demon ironwood scarab (veno skill) :
That 0 pdef debuff gets stronger and stronger as damage reduction from pdef gets closer to the cap. Going from 95% (which can be reached by an endgame barb in tiger form) to 0% damage reduction is a 20x amp. It's too strong and there is no real counter as the veno can cast it while the target is already being attacked by a phys class. The target won't have time to react and will die instantly (unless you wanna use faith/ad every time you see a veno channeling ironwood but it'll be a waste if it doesn't proc). Killing people thanks to demon ironwood doesn't require any skill to pull off. It's pure luck and anti-gameplay.
My solution to fix this issue : make demon ironwood scarab be a 180% phys def debuff like the primal version.
... It's like the devs were aware of this problem and made a fix but expected all the players to be stupid enough to learn the weaker primal version.
2) Sacrificial slash (seeker skill) and amount of def lvl available :
Sacrificial slash is not an issue at low def lvl but with +3 def stones a seeker can reach 230 def lvl (just with r8r def weapon, no G17).
With 230 def lvl, sacrifical slash becomes a 138 def lvl debuff and a 69 atk lvl buff. So the seeker has the equivalent of 207 atk lvl over the def lvl of his target. If the seeker attack lvl is equal to the target def lvl (say 150 atk lvl seeker vs 150 def lvl any class), that's about a 3x amp. And the sacrificial slash - qpq combo is free of chi with 50% uptime (15s duration with 30s cd).
This may not appear as an issue for many because there aren't many +3 def seekers atm and no one has 80 def lvl weapon yet. But the more def lvl is available the stronger seekers get even if everyone is given the same def lvl. With 80 def lvl weapon, a seeker can get 280 def lvl. The debuff is 168 def lvl, the buff is 84 atk lvl : total 252 lvls atks level over def lvl -> 3.5x amp
It also means seekers can shard full defensively be very tanky and still deal high damage at the same time. No other class can do so high damage without attack shard (except sin but see point 3
).
It also make JOSD about as good as or worse than vit stones/drakeflame/icebourne during sacrificial slash because the def lvl of the debuffed target is so far low compared to the atk lvl of those hitting it. They want people to pay for JOSD/serenity but at the same time they nerf them unless you're a seeker...
This skill should be put back to how it was : 40% debuff, 20% buff (not 60% / 30%).
Those 2 broken mechanics are a problem more in group pvp than 1v1 as seekers can be easily outcontrolled in 1v1 and venos only have 1 long cd phys skill to follow up ironwood.
3) Assassin class :
The have everything against a single target : highest pvp damage, good control, huge survival/anti-control with evade skill (tidal, force stealth, ulti stealth, aoe stealth, teles). Currently they can do : tidal -> ulti -> tidal and be almost unstoppable for 2.5 min. I know tidal cd will be increased to 120 sec (30 more sec) but they still have genie/apoth, force stealth, aoe stealth to cover that gap. I don't mind a class having high damage only or anti-control only but everything at once is overkill. Even if you get the best possible gear to tank a sin, he can kill your allies faster than you kill his allies in small fights and you can't stop him from doing so because of tidal/ulti. And now with paralyse on cursed jail and purge daggers they can easily solo kill purify casters.
They need a downgrade in damage or in anti-control (tidal rate shouldn't be 66% ...)
People often complain about DB class, SB vortex, wiz/SB mdef debuff but those are nothing compared to the above as we can do something to counter them.
1) Demon ironwood scarab (veno skill) :
That 0 pdef debuff gets stronger and stronger as damage reduction from pdef gets closer to the cap. Going from 95% (which can be reached by an endgame barb in tiger form) to 0% damage reduction is a 20x amp. It's too strong and there is no real counter as the veno can cast it while the target is already being attacked by a phys class. The target won't have time to react and will die instantly (unless you wanna use faith/ad every time you see a veno channeling ironwood but it'll be a waste if it doesn't proc). Killing people thanks to demon ironwood doesn't require any skill to pull off. It's pure luck and anti-gameplay.
My solution to fix this issue : make demon ironwood scarab be a 180% phys def debuff like the primal version.
... It's like the devs were aware of this problem and made a fix but expected all the players to be stupid enough to learn the weaker primal version.
2) Sacrificial slash (seeker skill) and amount of def lvl available :
Sacrificial slash is not an issue at low def lvl but with +3 def stones a seeker can reach 230 def lvl (just with r8r def weapon, no G17).
With 230 def lvl, sacrifical slash becomes a 138 def lvl debuff and a 69 atk lvl buff. So the seeker has the equivalent of 207 atk lvl over the def lvl of his target. If the seeker attack lvl is equal to the target def lvl (say 150 atk lvl seeker vs 150 def lvl any class), that's about a 3x amp. And the sacrificial slash - qpq combo is free of chi with 50% uptime (15s duration with 30s cd).
This may not appear as an issue for many because there aren't many +3 def seekers atm and no one has 80 def lvl weapon yet. But the more def lvl is available the stronger seekers get even if everyone is given the same def lvl. With 80 def lvl weapon, a seeker can get 280 def lvl. The debuff is 168 def lvl, the buff is 84 atk lvl : total 252 lvls atks level over def lvl -> 3.5x amp
It also means seekers can shard full defensively be very tanky and still deal high damage at the same time. No other class can do so high damage without attack shard (except sin but see point 3
).It also make JOSD about as good as or worse than vit stones/drakeflame/icebourne during sacrificial slash because the def lvl of the debuffed target is so far low compared to the atk lvl of those hitting it. They want people to pay for JOSD/serenity but at the same time they nerf them unless you're a seeker...
This skill should be put back to how it was : 40% debuff, 20% buff (not 60% / 30%).
Those 2 broken mechanics are a problem more in group pvp than 1v1 as seekers can be easily outcontrolled in 1v1 and venos only have 1 long cd phys skill to follow up ironwood.
3) Assassin class :
The have everything against a single target : highest pvp damage, good control, huge survival/anti-control with evade skill (tidal, force stealth, ulti stealth, aoe stealth, teles). Currently they can do : tidal -> ulti -> tidal and be almost unstoppable for 2.5 min. I know tidal cd will be increased to 120 sec (30 more sec) but they still have genie/apoth, force stealth, aoe stealth to cover that gap. I don't mind a class having high damage only or anti-control only but everything at once is overkill. Even if you get the best possible gear to tank a sin, he can kill your allies faster than you kill his allies in small fights and you can't stop him from doing so because of tidal/ulti. And now with paralyse on cursed jail and purge daggers they can easily solo kill purify casters.
They need a downgrade in damage or in anti-control (tidal rate shouldn't be 66% ...)
People often complain about DB class, SB vortex, wiz/SB mdef debuff but those are nothing compared to the above as we can do something to counter them.
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Comments
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as for the seeker whocares because i guess if your going to spend a bookake amount of your life savings and risk not paying a few bills then he/she should have that many def lvl i guess..
You fail to see my point. It's not about how many def lvl he can get, it's about how powerful that def lvl is on a seeker compared to other classes.
Even with just Josd and a r8r weapon which is not that hard to get F2P if you have been actively playing for a long time, the debuff is too strong.0 -
I have to agree that veno demon ironwood proc is unfair, but its has been on pw for ages and most likely never change, Kalyst would pretty much send a request to china for them to change, but as long its not broken or anyone is QQ'ing about that on china, it will never be balanced for us.
True, nothing much to say here, Full 3 def lvl Seeker SS can pretty much put your def level to negative even if you're full josd, put that with a purge and a devil Sin cursed jail, you're pretty much nuked if you don't have AD ready on your genie.
China Finally realized that Sin are broken and started with the tidal cooldown, its a long way from balance this class but hey, its a walk into a right direction, not much can be done here except hope for the best .
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Last i heard China players were complaining about demon ironwood especially in the arena so i dont know why they dont nerf this skill already. Demon venos can do just fine without it.
Seekers i think are not a popular class in China? so i think the SS buff was to help them there. Sins are clearly a problem there too if they finally got some balls to give them a tiny nerf but they should lower tidal % by a few or nerf their skill amps and glyph dmg for our version. The most geared class in pwi is sins cause its the class that gives you the most out of gearing up.
Paralyze status also needs a counter cause its out of control now. They should update genie skills and add something like fortify for anti-paralyze or make faith be the only skill that purifies it idk plus genie skills are long overdue for an update.
Imo sb vortex needs a change too like make it soulforce based or increased cd cause its too spamable atm would help to make it different colours too so we know which is enemy vortex and which is not.
I know China doesnt balance things for pwi but wouldnt hurt to tell them about our problems here @kalystconquerer#08760 -
I agree that Ironwood should be removed. CN tried to work around that issue by giving it some "upgrades" and honestly, those upgrades are not that bad for Sage venos. Actually they are quite nice and alot more balanced. Demon IW is the only skill that can get anyone killed instantly, no matter the gear/buffs so yeah, removing it would be best.
As for seeker...nah. Come on. It's an extremely powerful debuff but everyone and their mom has Expel or HoS. It's a very obvious attack and mostly only gets you killed when being AA'ed or if you are not paying attention. This is why I guess that's fine-ish. Don't get me wrong. Seeker have always been OP and they wouldn't have needed this update in SS but welp, it is what it is.
CN's Tidal CD increase is already a step in the right direction. I said it already many, many times. Remove Chill of the Deep or drastically reduce it's effect (like giving +1000 Physical Penetration instead of 40 Attack Level or even +20% crit (as they are at near max crit anyways but with that it would be 100% all the time). Furthermore (the most important fix): Change all of assassins Base damage multipliers to weapon damage. With those fixes even earthen rift, Condensed and spell cuter won't hurt as much and getting insta-killed by cursed jail will be also nearly impossible. Sin's damage will still be highest, but not as ridiculously broken as it currently is. Just saying, have you tried dealing damage on cap-def people with any class? Yeah, no damage incoming. Sins can still hit capped ppl for 20k+ zerkcrits...that's just so stupid, seriously.0 -
cosmosia1989 wrote: »As for seeker...nah. Come on. It's an extremely powerful debuff but everyone and their mom has Expel or HoS. It's a very obvious attack and mostly only gets you killed when being AA'ed or if you are not paying attention. This is why I guess that's fine-ish. Don't get me wrong. Seeker have always been OP and they wouldn't have needed this update in SS but welp, it is what it is.
"only gets you killed when being AA'ed" ? AA is what ppl should do all the time in group pvp. And tbh, a seeker can 1 shot most LA/casters with a crit zerk after SS - qpq, no assist needed.
Use expel, you can die to metal skill. Use HoS, you can die to phys skill. It's safer to AD/Faith if you're controlled with SS on and can't use class skills to survive.
As for paying attention, the skill has fast cast and the animation isn't flashy so you can't always notice the seeker using it before it gets put on you when you are surrounded by 40 ppl in mass pvp.
And no, seekers haven't always been OP. You must not have been playing the class when it was released. No SS, no zerk on metal, melee range or 10m range on main spam skills, no 110% base damage. The devs have been upgrading them over time because they were underpowered but they went overkill.
Does transposition glitch still work ? I haven't seen it happened for a while... maybe because they can just 1 shot the target instead now lol.
For ironwood/sin, I agree.0 -
suggestionman#1119 wrote: »And no, seekers haven't always been OP. You must not have been playing the class when it was released.
Actually, when seeker were brand-new, that was the time I played the class the most. During these times...any SS+Fortify on a CC'ed target (Stun port or Occult) resulted in a nearly instant K.O. if genie wasn't ready. Back in the day it was much easier killing people with seeker, especially due to the lack of double-tick def charms. Seeker has always been a trickery class. cast SS, watch people prematurely waste genie, blast it off with QpQ after effect wear off and finish the enemy. It was hilariously easy, just as much as it is now.
Before homestead was the time when seeker "struggled" the most and even then, time your stuff right and people just explode. I admit tho, now every half-baked seeker can just roll full def level and fire off leathal SS/QpQs all the time and yap, if it gets you then you are most likely dead. Seeker might've had a time in which they haven't been that great in mass pvp but in 1v1 they've always been very, very powerful if played correctly.Post edited by cosmosia1989 on0 -
suggestionman#1119 wrote: »cosmosia1989 wrote: »As for seeker...nah. Come on. It's an extremely powerful debuff but everyone and their mom has Expel or HoS. It's a very obvious attack and mostly only gets you killed when being AA'ed or if you are not paying attention. This is why I guess that's fine-ish. Don't get me wrong. Seeker have always been OP and they wouldn't have needed this update in SS but welp, it is what it is.
"only gets you killed when being AA'ed" ? AA is what ppl should do all the time in group pvp. And tbh, a seeker can 1 shot most LA/casters with a crit zerk after SS - qpq, no assist needed.
Use expel, you can die to metal skill. Use HoS, you can die to phys skill. It's safer to AD/Faith if you're controlled with SS on and can't use class skills to survive.
As for paying attention, the skill has fast cast and the animation isn't flashy so you can't always notice the seeker using it before it gets put on you when you are surrounded by 40 ppl in mass pvp.
And no, seekers haven't always been OP. You must not have been playing the class when it was released. No SS, no zerk on metal, melee range or 10m range on main spam skills, no 110% base damage. The devs have been upgrading them over time because they were underpowered but they went overkill.
Does transposition glitch still work ? I haven't seen it happened for a while... maybe because they can just 1 shot the target instead now lol.
For ironwood/sin, I agree.
Well said. I have gotten 1shot plenty of times in mass PK by seekers and there is very little you can do to counter it. Expecting ppl to see fast animation w/o flashy effects would be absurd. I have to say the new defense level debuff icon is a lot easier to notice, least to me, so that helps a bit.
The better players who have experience with seekers keep saying the class is broken but I havent really experienced that outside of getting hit for 35k+ ZCs. Granted I suspect the reason why I dont really experience other sides of seekers is because seekers I get to fight are garbage.
As for transportation glitch? You can still stick ppl into terrain if thats what you are asking, Defiance was notorious for using it in xTW by glitching barb(s) tanking the dragon into terrain. Defiance is however dead and those seekers moved to GD, who not so surprisingly also started using this "strategy". The only fix they did for transportation glitch was for TW where catapullers cant be relocated so transpositions and such dont work on them.0 -
cosmosia1989 wrote: »suggestionman#1119 wrote: »cosmosia1989 wrote: »And no, seekers haven't always been OP. You must not have been playing the class when it was released.
Actually, when seeker were brand-new, that was the time I played the class the most. During these times...any SS+Fortify on a CC'ed target (Stun port or Occult) resulted in a nearly instant K.O. if genie wasn't ready. Back in the day it was much easier killing people with seeker, especially due to the lack of double-tick def charms. Seeker has always been a trickery class. cast SS, watch people prematurely waste genie, blast it off with QpQ after effect wear off and finish the enemy. It was hilariously easy, just as much as it is now.
Before homestead was the time when seeker "struggled" the most and even then, time your stuff right and people just explode. I admit tho, now every half-baked seeker can just roll full def level and fire off leathal SS/QpQs all the time and yap, if it gets you then you are most likely dead. Seeker might've had a time in which they haven't been that great in mass pvp but in 1v1 they've always been very, very powerful if played correctly.
Except SS didn't exist when seeker was brand new.
After they added SS, it still wasn't a 3x amp like it is now and the cooldown was 60s not 30s. I would be fine with SS being so strong but not if it costs no chi, is ranged and with a 50% uptime.
Take HF for example. 2x amp is strong but it takes 1+ spark, has close range, flashy animation and only last 8s with 30s cd.
It's true that defense charms nerfed seeker a little but that's mostly for 1v1 not group pvp when others can tick the def charms for seekers and I already said SS was not really a problem for 1v1 as you can control the seeker more than he can control you.
Also when another class (except sin) goes full serenity, its killing potential on other serenity classes is limited or at least much lower then a devil/deity class. Seekers can get both defense and offense at the same time with defense shards to the point attack shards are useless for them.
A barb who wants to pull cata/hold dragon will go defense shards and struggle to kill a defense sharded seeker. A barb who want to kill seekers in 1v1 will go attack shard and struggle to survive when pulling cata/holding dragon. They can't have both at the same time. Seekers don't have to make that choice.
And I don't even think seekers are really strong for mass pvp at the moment. SBs, BMs and Venos (even w/o ironwood) are better with their aoe imo. But the fact that seekers can make you drop instantly with SS qpq crit zerk makes the game more luck based and less skill based.0 -
@suggestionman#1119 I mean, yeah. Gaining so much damage potential for not giving up any defenses is kinda like sins, only the other way around. Buffs like Adrenal and CotD are just too powerful. They alone kinda circumvent a whole set of shards, that's insane. Yap.
Seeker are pretty damn good in mass pvp if they focus on working together with other classes. That 5 sec full force Edged Blur is insane if you plant it with Ion Spike on a storm ulti. Add Seeker ulti and or trip spark to the equation and people drop like flies from DoT damage alone.
Yeah, SS is extremely powerful, but it's single target, can be blocked and will put the seeker in a dangerous place if he messes it up (tho with the current chi-rebuild + low chi cost on nearly anything chances are he just gonne trip spark it away). People still heavily underestimate seeker. Back in the day, in mass pvp, they've just been annoying flies but never really too dangerous and far too tanky to invest manpower to take them down. Now they are just as tanky but can also kill people in Mass-PvP thus you wanna focus them a little more now, naturally.
If anything is broken with seeker than it's the lack of sacrifices they have to endure for their built. High damage + extremely high tanky-ness, yeah that's OP indeed.
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As for transportation glitch? You can still stick ppl into terrain if thats what you are asking, Defiance was notorious for using it in xTW by glitching barb(s) tanking the dragon into terrain. Defiance is however dead and those seekers moved to GD, who not so surprisingly also started using this "strategy".
GD had no idea this could be done and it's never once been used lmfao!! Stop finding every little excuse to be salty and try slander GD just because you failed to defend Archosaur due to not knowing you could build wall guards. The only time I've ever see the transportation terrain bug is from DBs and Seek using it in NW.
Thanks for the tip though that you can use it on aggro barbs in xTW, I'll pass it on and hopefully put it into good use!#kylehawkinsuck
Moonshine drinker
In a world of 10s, be an 11.0 -
As for transportation glitch? You can still stick ppl into terrain if thats what you are asking, Defiance was notorious for using it in xTW by glitching barb(s) tanking the dragon into terrain. Defiance is however dead and those seekers moved to GD, who not so surprisingly also started using this "strategy".
GD had no idea this could be done and it's never once been used lmfao!! Stop finding every little excuse to be salty and try slander GD just because you failed to defend Archosaur due to not knowing you could build wall guards. The only time I've ever see the transportation terrain bug is from DBs and Seek using it in NW.
Thanks for the tip though that you can use it on aggro barbs in xTW, I'll pass it on and hopefully put it into good use!
All the main seekers from Defiance knew how to do it and kept doing it repeatedly, I dunno why they would forget how to do it. Defiance seekers move to GD and we have the double war xTW day with GD. And not so surprisingly I hear "barb stuck in terrain" in HQ on that xTW too.0 -
I love the direction this convo is going to personal faction vendetta105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
http://mypers.pw/5/#2589580 -
Nah no personal agenda just setting a fact straight. If your barbs got stuck tell them to run around instead of trying to jump over rocks and they won't get bugged. You do hear a lot of things that don't happen though in Karma so I'm not surprised as you do believe 99% of things that are said. Also, almost every xTW fight GD has is filmed so if one was glitched into terrain, it would be on a vidya but you're the only one who's ever mentioned it. You just seen a reason to QQ about GD so carpe diem'd it.
Back to topic tho, seekers are crazily OP if played right. There isn't really a certain class where you will be above others if you only have limited gears and skill. Its a matter of how well you know your toon with the gears it got. Any end game character is going to be seen as overkill if the players is skilled. There are full +12 Jades and Deities on Et who dies just as fast to lesser players by being outskilled. Also procs play a huge part..#kylehawkinsuck
Moonshine drinker
In a world of 10s, be an 11.0 -
I'd like to point out the mystic block genie skills could use a revamp or extension in CD ijs this spamable ability is even worse than paralyze imo. If you're being cc locked and your only hope is genie but you're blocked from that you either pray you love long enough to disrupt their cc (if there's 3+ ppl goodluck) or you're lucky enough they suck and you can use a potion. I'm not saying take it away but maybe making both 120 seconds cool down wouldn't be so unfair >.> or 120 on the longer on and 60 on the shorter. It doesn't weaken mystic at all imo but classes without a high hp/defense pool and not endgame literally have no chance against his105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
http://mypers.pw/5/#2589580 -
Nah no personal agenda just setting a fact straight. If your barbs got stuck tell them to run around instead of trying to jump over rocks and they won't get bugged. You do hear a lot of things that don't happen though in Karma so I'm not surprised as you do believe 99% of things that are said. Also, almost every xTW fight GD has is filmed so if one was glitched into terrain, it would be on a vidya but you're the only one who's ever mentioned it. You just seen a reason to QQ about GD so carpe diem'd it.
You cant truly be that stupid, can you? Why on earth would anybody claim "barb stuck on terrain, prepare to pull off dragon" in HQ if it wasnt in fact true? And no, this isnt bout jumping over rocks but an actual abuse of a certain glitch. I am sure you dont know bout it though. Then again things you don know bout this game could fill few libraries.
As for "QQing bout GD", why would I even care to QQ bout that faction? It gives us something to kill during weekends even if 25mins per TW doesnt give you a whole lot of time to kill stuff. I only pointed out the players who abuse this glitch, who all happen in fact to be in GD as least I havent seen factions from other servers doing it as of yet.
Ps. You trying to forum warrior your way back into GD?0 -
It's not actually been this strong for that long. When it first came out people were in TT90 so maybe when it came out an average 'endgame' player had like 50% phys damage reduction. Dropping that 50% reduction to 0% means that person now takes 2x as much damage. Since TT90 people now have much more pdef from better gear, primal passives, and stronger skills. A player with 95% damage reduction reduced to down to 0% takes 20 times more damage.nowayoutgtx960 wrote: »I have to agree that veno demon ironwood proc is unfair, but its has been on pw for ages and most likely never change,
It used to make people take 2x damage and now it makes people take 20x damage. That's the problem. It gets stronger and stronger over time. That's poor design.
Seeker debuff is similar in that it keeps getting stronger and stronger as more defense levels are available.0 -
Demon Ironwood is very broken, mostly because its a random effect with a low cooldown, making it very hard to counter. Even when you see the skill telegraphed, you have no idea what will happen.
Seeker combo is completely different and not at all broken. Its a guaranteed effect with a much higher cooldown. It's very telegraphed and countered by the same stuff that counters ironwood (any type of purify). Not only that but it isn't an instant effect, the seeker has to use multiple skills to set it up. It can't get much more telegraphed than that, the only thing that's missing is the seeker PMing you that he wants to kill you (it's almost like the new PvE boss mechanics!). All of this makes it very easy to counter, you literally just have to study what the combo looks like, and then pay attention. In any type of small combat this combo is completely worthless if there's 1 good cleric present or if people just save their faith for the only actually lethal combo from seekers. In large combat its a bit harder to notice, but a single target nuke is hardly impactful there, and even then the debuffs are very noticable so a good cleric should still be able to catch this without problem.0 -
before massive nerfs why not to fix the skills which are completly outdated first? for example most of the wiz morai/celestial skills, of all those skills just 2 work well now days(elemental invocation and mortal reversion)0
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suggestionman#1119 wrote: »The 3 main highly unbalanced mechanics in pvp in this game are :
People often complain about DB class, SB vortex, wiz/SB mdef debuff but those are nothing compared to the above as we can do something to counter them.
Seriously? but your not good enough to counter Seeker combo which takes a setup just like the sb and btw sb combo will drop anyclass if not countered.
dbs counterable? HAHAHAHA. they also get and have purge weapon and im sorry but are a broken class all around, you can half the gear of any other class and still kill them. sins dont even have that ability.
and wizz??? you actually bring up wizz?? its like the most ignored class that has been dealt with. still no anti stun skill unless you have puri on weapon!
using the argument "but can be countered so doesn't matter" can be said about all the problems you listed except for sins.
have you fought a NP db with purge weapon yet?
as far as balance goes all i keep hearing is "should be skill not luck" yet you skim over sbs and dbs. there is alot of imbalance. and its not just in the 3 things you mention.
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sins dont have the ability to kill someone who outgared them?WTF well yes if the other is another sin lol0
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suggestionman#1119 wrote: »The 3 main highly unbalanced mechanics in pvp in this game are :
People often complain about DB class, SB vortex, wiz/SB mdef debuff but those are nothing compared to the above as we can do something to counter them.
Seriously? but your not good enough to counter Seeker combo which takes a setup just like the sb and btw sb combo will drop anyclass if not countered.
dbs counterable? HAHAHAHA. they also get and have purge weapon and im sorry but are a broken class all around, you can half the gear of any other class and still kill them. sins dont even have that ability.
and wizz??? you actually bring up wizz?? its like the most ignored class that has been dealt with. still no anti stun skill unless you have puri on weapon!
using the argument "but can be countered so doesn't matter" can be said about all the problems you listed except for sins.
have you fought a NP db with purge weapon yet?
as far as balance goes all i keep hearing is "should be skill not luck" yet you skim over sbs and dbs. there is alot of imbalance. and its not just in the 3 things you mention.
What you call seeker combo is pressing 2 skills that cast faster than 1s each. You can't say it requires a setup in group pvp, when you can do it from range and let others tick the def charm. As I said, it can be countered but the counter is expensive. And the seeker "combo" is completely free and usable every 30s. I wouldn't mind an attack sharded character being able to put so much pressure on me because it could be taken out first, but seeker combo gets stronger and stronger the more def lvl they get. A ranged tank shouldn't have a free 3x amp 50% of the time.
As for SB combo, I don't see it dropping tidal'd sin or magic marrowed bm. SB is a class that is relatively easy to kill. If they have deity, yes the combo will be deadly but they'll be easier to kill. If they have josd, it won't improve the damage of the combo like it does on seeker.
When i say DB counterable, I mean in mass pvp. If a DB is CCing one of your allies (purge weapon or not) anyone can CC him to stop him since they'll be in melee range. They are strong agaisnt a single target but not to the point of what you are saying. Shards don't offer them the best of both worlds like seekers. A deity DB will die to sin and a josd DB will struggle to kill barb/bm with def shards in 1v1.
Casters and archers have no chance in 1v1 but that's it.
I don't disagree about the fact that wiz may be left behind. I just said I hear people complain about their debuff sometimes.
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Just a casual reminder to try not turn threads into inter-server guild versus guild PvP.
On a positive sidenote-I've started having more frequent meetings with the devs. That being said, I feel like this is a topic I don't want to bring up quite yet with them without researching things first. That is not to say I believe them to be infallible nor am I saying I don't believe the people entrenched in PvP day in and day out, but anything regarding class balances needs context for them to know where the problems lie.
I spend some time everyday to lurk and read threads like this, so even if I don't comment on them, I do read everything being posted!
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kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »Just a casual reminder to try not turn threads into inter-server guild versus guild PvP.
On a positive sidenote-I've started having more frequent meetings with the devs. That being said, I feel like this is a topic I don't want to bring up quite yet with them without researching things first. That is not to say I believe them to be infallible nor am I saying I don't believe the people entrenched in PvP day in and day out, but anything regarding class balances needs context for them to know where the problems lie.
I spend some time everyday to lurk and read threads like this, so even if I don't comment on them, I do read everything being posted!
Honestly, just remove seekers transposition skill. It keeps getting abused by sticking ppl into terrain in pretty creative ways. Ideal situation would be fixing it but I honestly dunno how you would be fixing it w/o just disabling it.0 -
If you're going to complain and want them to remove seeker Transposition you might aswell remove Duskblade skill Shadow Prey at the same time. It can be used to a similar effect in pulling off terrain and into an unfair advantage.#kylehawkinsuck
Moonshine drinker
In a world of 10s, be an 11.0 -
@valdisman Nah the Duskblade one is a 'pull', same as BM. The Seeker one is a forced teleport which can be used to permanently embed players in the terrain.0
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@valdisman Nah the Duskblade one is a 'pull', same as BM. The Seeker one is a forced teleport which can be used to permanently embed players in the terrain.
I know its a pull rather than a port but it still implies a similar disadvantaged effect.#kylehawkinsuck
Moonshine drinker
In a world of 10s, be an 11.0 -
How about we nerf the perma sparks of sins and perma stuns/freezes of duskblades, the unfair zerks from melee classes against arcane, etc then we can talk about unfair pdef reduction from a veno.
Geeze0 -
@jadasia arcanes can get zerk too ya know not sure why you brought that up and magic doesn't even miss.
@doods00 for a sb to fully combo you they need ultimate because they need to stack a mountain of debuffs then frozen lightning you before that procs and you hit with ultimate make sure you hit HoT and you will be fine if you can't HoS because you wasted genie or don't have HoS then you deserve to die
Fixxed and Snow I assume you mean by NP purge dbs. Ever video I've ever seen or pk I've watched the moment they were purged they instantly died due to having deity/Devil so all you need to do is purge and focus them stop acting like just because it's geared and a db/sb it's god dbs are extremely suceptible to death after genie down which isn't hard to force them stunlock/supportive damage105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
http://mypers.pw/5/#2589580
https://youtu.be/RkkWkigYd3k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0
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