The current class balance

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  • asterelle
    asterelle Posts: 861 Arc User
    valdisman wrote: »
    asterelle wrote: »
    @valdisman Nah the Duskblade one is a 'pull', same as BM. The Seeker one is a forced teleport which can be used to permanently embed players in the terrain.

    I know its a pull rather than a port but it still implies a similar disadvantaged effect.


    Pretty much any skill can be described as "disadvantaging" an opponent. Unless it permanently embeds you into terrain like the seeker skill can it's not similar. That's how the seeker one is being abused.    ​​
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  • capnk
    capnk Posts: 486 Arc User
    I see no problem with seekers in the current state of the game. They're hard to kill but they don't do anything, and their death combo is so obvious you can counter it easily. What the OP describes is something that may be a problem in the future but isn't a problem at this time.
  • cefre
    cefre Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    The most broken skill is the demon imbued tiger form / panda fom. That 5% critical damage reduction for 6 sec is nothing else then a bad joke....
  • fury85
    fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Imho I think that skill more/less useless are for any class.

    The real problem for me are:
    - 0 def from Veno and SB: realyl a stupid mechanic, also not predictable and you can't react in time.
    - Assassins are too strong. To many skills to survive, to much locks, to much damage. Damage is really OP, I have a barb full vit, sage, full JOSD with 70k hp, 80k phys def and 162 def level in tiger and can't tank an endgame sin. He force me to use SS in tiger and when I try to para (after Tidal is over), if i fail and he catch me i have to IG to not die. Like 20-25k damage in tiger, over 30k in human....

    Other than that... I think they need to focus on PVP because is going to die in any form due to the events that are set to an higher population.
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • beast21g
    beast21g Posts: 631 Arc User
    cefre wrote: »
    The most broken skill is the demon imbued tiger form / panda fom. That 5% critical damage reduction for 6 sec is nothing else then a bad joke....

    wanna take a look at the sage version?
    Doing nothing.
    Was supposed to give more def but it's not working :hushed:
  • scruncy
    scruncy Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    sage version is actually ok, it removes the dmg reduction from tiger form.

    This game has way to many stuns, freezes, seals ,para and idk what. This combined with a high dmg output makes some classes overpowered and some classes helpless. In my opinion any of those control skills should not do dmg ( like bm roar). Then the game would look totally different.
  • cosmosia1989
    cosmosia1989 Posts: 165 Arc User
    +cough cough+ That's why 1v1 is da best <333
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    ^ *cough cough* how many ppl actually are confident classes are balanced enough for fun 1v1
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  • cosmosia1989
    cosmosia1989 Posts: 165 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    ^ *cough cough* how many ppl actually are confident classes are balanced enough for fun 1v1

    Anyone xD IF we had a char builder with which you could pick gears/skills, kinda like in LoL, and then enter an arena to fight 1v1 vs your enemy then it would be extremely balanced. IF they rework sins and duskblades then you could even allow them in. At the current point of the game Sins and DBs have no place in "Balanced" 1v1. Only a minority of classes can compete vs them whilst others are completely chanceless. The other classes are pretty balanced with each other :D
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    The same could be said about bms due to the amount of damage to cc lock ratio,venos due to venos certain abilities, sb who can near 0 mdef ppl Serenity seekers whom can just gg ppl, g17.3 zerk deity/devil archers who can zerk crit arcanes even stupid index with magic. Give any class enough gear and skill and it's op in its own rite not just two just those two get most complaints one for too much damage and one for too much cc @cosmosia1989
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  • cefre
    cefre Posts: 23 Arc User
    scruncy wrote: »
    sage version is actually ok, it removes the dmg reduction from tiger form.

    This game has way to many stuns, freezes, seals ,para and idk what. This combined with a high dmg output makes some classes overpowered and some classes helpless. In my opinion any of those control skills should not do dmg ( like bm roar). Then the game would look totally different.

    The sage version is OP coz it's gives 100% pattack in tiger / panda form instead of 50%. Also gives 20 or 30 chi by transforming so not that useless then the demon version
  • cosmosia1989
    cosmosia1989 Posts: 165 Arc User
    @blazerboy Nah, it's not that any class has something OP about it.

    It's that both Sins and Duskblades can end up completely dominating other classes, no matter how good they play, no matter what genie they use, no matter how good their timing is, simply because those classes have so many pressure skills and survival skills that you can easily deplete all of the enemies defensive stuffs to leave them completely defenseless while having a very easy time staying alive themselves.

    Everything that is OP about other classes can be outplayed. IW can be outplayed by using phys def charms and taking care of the pet so you wont get them triggered easy. Seeker is HoS/Expel (depending on class), SB is Oxygen and HoS, vs Archer you also have HoS/Expel/going close range (outplaying them is also pretty easy if you are smart. Catch them in any sort of CC combo and they are pretty much dead with that glass cannon built. Use your ressources more wisely and you can win).

    None of the other classes can constantly beat you again and again and again in a 1v1 without any possibility to counter them. Only Sins and DBs can. If a sin or DB loses a 1v1 on equal gears then it is purely due to them making mistakes. If you don't make mistakes with these classes (on equal gears) then you most likely won't lose unless you are ultra-unlucky and lets be serious. Losing 1 in 10 fights cannot be considered "balanced".

    Look at my DB...I bet a million bucks, right away, that no one that is not a sin or db themselves would even beat me twice in 10 fights on the exact same gears as my db, ever. Impossible. At that gear level no one is tanky enough to withstand the debuffs and also dish out enough damage to OS a duskblade...with prepared genie, save skills, ulti, etc. Nah. Sins are even more ridiculous. Trip spark -> port to them -> nearly auto-triggers genie, ts/rds -> spark again, IH, cursed jail, ggwp. No AA/LA on that gear level survives a sparked cursed jail with potential 2-3 follow-up attacks. Nope.

    This is why Assassins and Duskblades have no place in regards of being balanced among the other classes. They need to be reworked hard to even be considered remotely balanced. If they were balanced then my DB wouldn't even had a shot at killing a nuema portal/cap pdef barb in a 1v1. That gear difference is absolute insanity, yet I've still won most fights. If that's not absurdly broken, I dunno what is.
  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    Since we moved on to complaining about every crappy mechanic in the game I'd like to bring up how stupid the accuracy vs evasion model is. As a BM I can do anywhere between 0% and 400% of my expected damage. The amount I actually get isn't a reward for proper setup, it isn't a reward for good play, its completely random. Playing Blademaster these days is just playing a casino class, where if the game wants it you'll randomly kill someone you yourself didn't even expect to kill, or if the game wants it you don't kill someone even though you did everything to properly set it up, by randomly getting you to miss your skills. You can make the argument to just stat dex, but the returns on dex is so incredibly low that since it doesn't also scale up your damage like with Duskblade/Assassin it's a terrible idea to actually stat it. BMs are basically participating in a permanent lottery at this point, and the game will decide how well they do, which is an absolutely terrible game mechanic
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  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    @cosmosia1989 there you go agian, and agian this game doesn't balance most classes in 1v1 mass is the direction they keep developing them db and sin are overpowered in 1v1 and devs don't care because that's not even the calling point of the game. You can count on 1 hand how many ppl on DA 1v1 advidly but dozens enjoy mass xD
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  • cosmosia1989
    cosmosia1989 Posts: 165 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    @cosmosia1989 there you go agian, and agian this game doesn't balance most classes in 1v1 mass is the direction they keep developing them db and sin are overpowered in 1v1 and devs don't care because that's not even the calling point of the game. You can count on 1 hand how many ppl on DA 1v1 advidly but dozens enjoy mass xD

    Then again, if you watch on youtube, across all server (even CN), the videos with 1v1 have massively more views/comments and generally generate alot more interest. Is aid that on my recent xTW video already, whilst people ingame care more about Mass-PvP, the youtube part of the PW community does not. Not in the slightest. Understandably so. One xTW vid is like all the others. People just wanna see the outcome if they have been involved themselves. Watching those vids if you didnt participate yourself or not having your faction involved or not for the means of assessing a factions power is ultra boring and kinda useless. In 1v1, unexpected things can happen. You can see people getting outplayed and it's alot more interesting in general.

    Maybe I should move on and focus on DS3 - 1v1 videos..those easily get 100k+ views per and that game in general needs alot more skill than PWI to begin with. Welp, can't help it but I still like PWI, despite the imbalance.

    Aside from that, DBs are not that big of a problem in Mass-PvP, yes. I agree. CC them, get genie gone, cc them more and they are dead. However, sins are a balancing issue in Mass-PvP as well as in 1v1. So naturally they need a fix. I wouldn't even need to fix DBs that much for Mass. Just remove the CD reset from ulti and reduce the chi gain of the Q-spam skills to half. Easy gg. With that, you would just need to pay more attention.
  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    cosmosia1989 wrote: »
    Then again, if you watch on youtube, across all server (even CN), the videos with 1v1 have massively more views/comments and generally generate alot more interest. Is aid that on my recent xTW video already, whilst people ingame care more about Mass-PvP, the youtube part of the PW community does not. Not in the slightest. Understandably so. One xTW vid is like all the others. People just wanna see the outcome if they have been involved themselves. Watching those vids if you didnt participate yourself or not having your faction involved or not for the means of assessing a factions power is ultra boring and kinda useless. In 1v1, unexpected things can happen. You can see people getting outplayed and it's alot more interesting in general.

    Large reason of that, imo, is because ppl keep posting **** mass PK videos by which I mean numbers arent remotely even. And its lot harder to determine if you are "wasting your time" with such a video than its when it comes to 1vs1 video, where relative gear levels can be determined trough dmg log pretty easily. As such, 1vs1 videos are a lot easier to enjoy and I cant blame people for liking that. My small channel has videos in order of popularity along lines of PvE > xTW > Mass PK > TW > 1vs1s. So I believe part of your results is also the fact your channel is focused heavily around 1vs1s and thats what ppl go watch when they think of your channel.

    The interest for Mass PK is a lot higher, you can see it with 1vs1s being something maybe 5 ppl on each server gets excited while you can multiply that number by quite a bit to get amount of ppl who get excited over mass PK. Like sure, more ppl do 1vs1s than the 5 but very small amount of those ppl are hardcore bout it.
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  • suggestionman#1119
    suggestionman#1119 Posts: 39 Arc User
    The reason most people don't 1v1is that you have to ask someone and wait for them to accept. And for some people you never know if they are actually willing to have a proper 1v1 or will bring friends/faction to gank. It's much easier to click 2 buttons and queue up for 3v3 or join a TW faction, show up at TW time and get squaded. In general people who don't like 1v1 like to be carried by others in mass pvp.
    A 1v1 mode in colosseum would fix that.
  • cosmosia1989
    cosmosia1989 Posts: 165 Arc User
    suggestionman#1119 wrote: »
    The reason most people don't 1v1is that you have to ask someone and wait for them to accept. And for some people you never know if they are actually willing to have a proper 1v1 or will bring friends/faction to gank. It's much easier to click 2 buttons and queue up for 3v3 or join a TW faction, show up at TW time and get squaded. In general people who don't like 1v1 like to be carried by others in mass pvp.
    A 1v1 mode in colosseum would fix that.

    I'm game.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    @suggestionman#1119 I feel like a lot of ppl will complain sin and db only can do this event and refuse
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  • suggestionman#1119
    suggestionman#1119 Posts: 39 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    @suggestionman#1119 I feel like a lot of ppl will complain sin and db only can do this event and refuse

    It would give ppl valid evidence of the unbalance between classes to ask the devs to nerf some.

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