Class Nerfs?

thefallenreborn · December 2016

did duskblades get any sorts of nerfs like skills/damage increase/decrease? It seems like sins got a damage boost and db's still are kind of sitting below them and it almost seems like they got nerfed to be weaker than they were, but is that true?

capnk · December 2016

No direct nerfs, but the new crit damage reduction passive hits all the dex-based classes harder than others.

blazerboy · December 2016

@capnk @thefallenreborn in a way duskblades were yes due to the fact in the last two updates duskblades got more survivability/squad support based skills updates while sins actually got damage in both a rediculous imo. Its close to the point no reason to go anything but vit stone or Jsod as a dusk because even full deity db can't even compete in damage racing a jsod sin but eh community complained for a nerf. Above all duskblades are feeling it worst imo, heck even more than archers since archers can easily take pressure off them with spamable pushback and ultimate skill gaining more duration not to mention once zerk archers become meta it's RIP while db already have zerk and starting to struggle. Duskblade got nothing new to maintain their damage just reduce it in the past two updates while everyone got more defenses.

darkfalconknight · December 2016

@blazerboy, sry but the archer got hit the worst on the crit damage passive. so with that dbs are still being kept above surface while the archer has now unofficially sunk. Even with the pushback and ultimate, that still doesnt help the fact that archers are now one of the lowest dmg classes which has now made em completely useless to pvp and has made em retreat to pve. So i doubt that archers will be of any use less its to purge from range and even that is semi now getting nerfed with a lower % proc chance.

blazerboy · December 2016

@darkfalconknight tbh these updates were meant for g17 to be meta now I think china has 5th cast ppl by now iirc someone said. But yea once archer get zerk trust me they will be up there once again while db will fall behind. That's just PWI and PWCN having issues and giving us tourney so darn late ~shrugs~

daymond · December 2016

Duskblades weak?
Archers one of the lowest damage classes?

Time to lay off the drugs guys.

blazerboy · December 2016

@daymond well considering duskblades like sins used to be able to solo kill even fully buffed enemies equal geared not it's not really possible unless they get lucky with quad cancel kinda stands to reason they are getting weaker. Not just skill it's just pure damage compared to a sin db hits maybe 1/3 as hard and half as much when it's a deity db and Jsod sin. The guy asked if duskblades seem to be getting weaker and as I clearly stated earlier how and why they are. Archer has low atk power as db but it's managble but once they get zerk it will explode up leaving db in behind cuz they already have zerk and struggling

shopcheese · December 2016

If db getting weaker its good, then we just need a nerf to churning vortex

blazerboy · December 2016

@shopcheese I would be ok with db getting weaker if they did same with sins instead db getting weaker while sins are literally able to fill the gap between them and puri spell with the ability to one hit anything besides HA with a lucky cursed jail atk xD

angellicdeity · December 2016

blazerboy wrote: »

@daymond well considering duskblades like sins used to be able to solo kill even fully buffed enemies equal geared not it's not really possible unless they get lucky with quad cancel kinda stands to reason they are getting weaker. Not just skill it's just pure damage compared to a sin db hits maybe 1/3 as hard and half as much when it's a deity db and Jsod sin. The guy asked if duskblades seem to be getting weaker and as I clearly stated earlier how and why they are. Archer has low atk power as db but it's managble but once they get zerk it will explode up leaving db in behind cuz they already have zerk and struggling

Archers aren't getting by. Its completely misleading. The archers getting by vastly outgear their opponents. A G17 archer is just going to Win by the fact that when they get there, they're doing it with rebirthed card sets, godly star charts, +12 refines, Devil/Serenity stones.

If you geared DB's the same way you have geared archers, a DB is easily popping 10-20K hits.

blazerboy · December 2016

@angellicdeity having faced a full deity endgame db many a time and watching other dbs with similar gears on YouTube pk videos I assure you this is not the case. The fact is as gear passive etc goes up sin damage/ channel time in skills have gone up the same cannot be said for db leading to it being so that dbs cant deal enough damage in a ideal amount of time to get the kill. Now if the db merely ganks he will be fine likely but atm no solos for dbs like sins to be frank

blazerboy · December 2016

Archers at max range with zerk will do quite well imo and even better with ulti. These updates were worked out for g17 I believe so

thefallenreborn · December 2016

It pretty much seems like what @blazerboy just said is the case in terms of everything it seems that sins are just overpowering again in damage and being able to kill you through a charm is really stupid and unfair from using just 1 skill

blazerboy · December 2016

@thefallenreborn yeah pretty much the case. DB cannot do the same but any sin Aeu card set +12 wep can with ease

kyoske · December 2016

yall complaining about db sins and archers, what about poor bms the forgotten class. PWI pooped on that class

blazerboy · December 2016

@kyoske I always saw bm as a vanguard class who came in the nucleus of the battlefield CCed and soaked damage while remaining as flexible as possible. I think they do well in this

capnk · December 2016

BMs are fine. Aoe disarm with their stun, aoe reel in, more ways to get chi. They haven't been neglected.

blazerboy · December 2016

Ah they got more ways for chi? Then bms should be good. As stated earlier I don't think they were meant to play roles as a independent DDafter aps damage for them became a non factor and more classes began to surface. You don't see venos throwing nukes xD except maybe Iron wood proc nor do you see absorb soul ruining lives anymore. Seekers moved in that direction due to 2 proc defense charms in a way,they become more group and support rather than a full on DD. Heck DBs are going that direction becoming more support based (last two updates kinda confirm this). The only class I see remaining a independent DD who can get the job done in groups or alone is Sins

andadina1 · January 2017

well 1 thing that i see on etherblade server is people complaining how db are weak. think about it people, db is a class that can kill only when you can stun lock and to do that all your hits must be perfect because of the relative short lasting stuns/paralyzes on the skills. once a db been stunned is easy to take care of them. yet people dont complain of sins who lets see: deaden to save them from death , tidal to be unable to be stunned so easily , 40 attack lvl more than others. and the huge damage boost that they got with the new changes. And yet people complain about dbs? are they blind ???

csquared5 · January 2017

andadina1 wrote: »

well 1 thing that i see on etherblade server is people complaining how db are weak. think about it people, db is a class that can kill only when you can stun lock and to do that all your hits must be perfect because of the relative short lasting stuns/paralyzes on the skills. once a db been stunned is easy to take care of them. yet people dont complain of sins who lets see: deaden to save them from death , tidal to be unable to be stunned so easily , 40 attack lvl more than others. and the huge damage boost that they got with the new changes. And yet people complain about dbs? are they blind ???

You say this like all ccs are equal. 'Sins and dbs both do ccs'. Um, NO. Their ccs are NOT built equally. The cc of a db is way scarier to arcane classes than a sin's cc. With full buffs in, I can endlessly purify proc out of a sin's cc lock all day long, but a db (whether solo or supporting somebody else) will lock me in place no matter how much my weapon procs away.

So the long and short of it is, if you, like a derp, stand in one place and let a sin whack away at you, then yes the sin does more raw dps. No question about that. However, if, unlike a derp, you take advantage of all your purify procs, a sin is not nearly so dangerous anymore. The db, while doing less average dps, does still have extremely good nuke ability with their quadrature, and they'll lock you in place even if you purify proc. Since both dbs and sins do sufficient dmg to kill arcanes if the arcanes stay put, the class that can keep the arcane from moving, not the class that does the most dps, is the more dangerous of the 2 classes.

For this reason, I still fear dbs more than sins.

andadina1 · January 2017

yeah but thats from a 1v1 perspective , what about multiple people on a db /sin .

blazerboy · January 2017

@andadina1 I've been saying this for months. Though DB can bypass puri spell we still have MAYBE 1/3 the damage of a Sin since this current major update. Therefore all a db really is good for is for a added cc while the sin get the kill. Before DB came out there were wayy too many arcanes walking around mainly due to ppl rerolling. Sins couldn't stop them due to puri spell proc and how nerf archers got through the years. We needed this class xD now they can hardly kill arcanes just support cc GG can't even do properly what it was made for.

@csquared5 I understand how you feel about your wep not procing but atm sins are manageable for arcane classes,hope you fair well when sins cursed jail(most terrifying skill) gets paralyze and tele paralyze let's see people pretend like sin aren't a major problem. As it stands every class but arcanes suffering from the horrible damage sins have been given because we don't have puri spell. By the way quadrature? Still 3min CD vs 60 seconds from cursed jail At the most 30 second for other nuke like skills from sin. Spellcutter, condense thorn, Rift ok that's a balance gg... Even if db use ulti skill sins can still spam cursed jail more

csquared5 · January 2017

Your experience and mine are simply different. Dbs do less dmg to me but they can still kill me more effectively than sins.

Or, lets say I'm tanking somebody, lets say a seeker. Now, add in an assassin, or a db. If we add in an assassin, I will probably still be ok. With 2 ppl hitting me, the chance I get purify proc is quite high. I'll get it, and run away and pop a shield as I do so.
However, if we add a db instead, my chance of dying skyrockets, because my weapon will not save me.

Ok, this time lets say I'm tanking 3 or 4 ppl, maybe with ulti and plume shell at once. Add in a sin. My chance of getting purify proc goes way up. Might still survive. Now instead add a db in. I'm dead for sure. 99% for sure dead. Db locks me, weapon can proc 50 times and I'll still die from raw dmg.

Definitely still fear dbs more than sins. Please stop complaining about your lack of solo ability (who ever said dbs *had* to be the best/scariest 1vs1 in game ?!) and accept that you are a great support class, somewhat like the veno or bm, but with better single target dps.

Cheers.

dregenfox · January 2017

csquared5 wrote: »

Your experience and mine are simply different. Dbs do less dmg to me but they can still kill me more effectively than sins.

Or, lets say I'm tanking somebody, lets say a seeker. Now, add in an assassin, or a db. If we add in an assassin, I will probably still be ok. With 2 ppl hitting me, the chance I get purify proc is quite high. I'll get it, and run away and pop a shield as I do so.
However, if we add a db instead, my chance of dying skyrockets, because my weapon will not save me.

Ok, this time lets say I'm tanking 3 or 4 ppl, maybe with ulti and plume shell at once. Add in a sin. My chance of getting purify proc goes way up. Might still survive. Now instead add a db in. I'm dead for sure. 99% for sure dead. Db locks me, weapon can proc 50 times and I'll still die from raw dmg.

Definitely still fear dbs more than sins. Please stop complaining about your lack of solo ability (who ever said dbs *had* to be the best/scariest 1vs1 in game ?!) and accept that you are a great support class, somewhat like the veno or bm, but with better single target dps.

Cheers.

I'd say they are both equally deadly. DB is far more disruptive but also easy to cc and peel off, while the main danger from sins is that random, 20k crit that instantly kills you and their tidal.

They're both broken classes, just broken in different ways.

Sin is easier only because you don't have to depend on others to help you, and it's more of a skill based matchup.

With DB...there's 0 interaction and no counterplay, which is probably where your frustration comes from.

blazerboy · January 2017

@csquared5 honestly I understand where you're coming from and you're right our experience must be different. To me getting ganked by any class but sin due to the rediculous damage spikes they can get for absolutely 0 effort is no issue. Spark Harmony cursed jail condense thorn rift or spellcutter any of them zerk crit can mean 1 shot charm bypass like really? Db even as a non arcane getting out of their CC is child's play if you time skills like faith/AD or heck just fortify and actually pay attention. Why people see Quadrature and try to tank that mid gank escapes me. In my experience if I'm being ganked If I see db I'm like okay **** everyone else watch what skills he's about to charge or cast and counter because the rest won't be a big deal to hightail out if I outsmart db, if I see a sin I can expect welp if AD doesn't save me it's time to be insta deleted not from stun but raw damage.

My only issue is if you're ganna nerf db damage nerf sins just aswell. I won't talk about class roles in MOST mmo games because we know pwi defies this already so it's irrelevant. But making it so only arcanes really have a chance agianst Sins while the rest of us suffer is like gg...Even dbs will struggle agianst LA and HA but sin only 1/3 types of gear vs 2/3? GG... Not saying Duskblade should be completely 1v1 or even get damage boost but when you have two cc similar classes but one gets heavy nerf while the other heavy amp it's kinda a slap to face because we are already at a disadvantage. And inb4 someone says well sin have stun db paralyze. Newsflash people sins get paralyze in next major update after just getting major damage increase and will agian next update 600% elimination!? Let's all bank on g17 procs to save us from that when most of them have not the best proc % and sin will delete you in just a couple hits excluding multi hit skills. So let's continue to ignore it until arcanes start suffering that's where I see this discussion going towards. It's not a problem until arcanes hurting xD?

I respect your and many people's oppinions all I'm saying is bring their damage down without nerfing other classes xD

jsxshadow · January 2017

Sins damage definitly needs a nerf. No doubt to that. Easiest solution? Remove Chill of the deep like I keep preaching again and again. Ah and reduce tidal to 33% max if you not remove it entirely. It can still save the sin but it will be working alot less and will get sins rekt if they play just as careless as they play today.

Duskblades, if skilled, can beat any other class in a 1v1. Sins can beat most classes by just facerolling the keyboard with a very low chance of losing if they just have good enough gears. Most Sins dont rely on skill which is personally my only problem. If you are bad you are not supposed to beat/kill anyone. A bad DB can easily be dealt with by any class if there is no massive gear difference. A bad sin can still OS you on equal gears (depending on your class) while being nearly completely immune to counter-CC and debuffs.

Barbs, BMs, Seeker and Duskblades/Sins respectively have the same chance of winning if you fight with a Sin or Dusk. IF you are a skilled player than you have more chances of beating most classes with a duskblade. It's just that you dont have to be good as a sin which is a clear indicator for them needing a nerf. Duskblades CAN dominate if they are good. Sins dominate even when played by braindead people.

In the end...an equally geared barb disposes sins and dusks equally easy

Just gotta know them classes :P

mooglemonger · January 2017

Sins only do crazy damage on their own when they use their ulti. Other then that its debuffs are being put on a target before the sin damages said target. The sin ulti is op and so are other classes ulti, that is the point if the ulti for each class ( stormbringer and venomancer ulti's come to mind being if you sit there and try to tank their ulti you will die)
As for debuffed targets being killed its called teamwork... Other classes lay down the debuffs, purge, amp, cc, wbatever else I'm not thinking of while classes like sins, wizards, archers, any other class lays down the damage taking said targets down.

Disclaimer: What I just wrote only applies to fighting other endgame characters, not the alt standing afk in NW that takes 600k damage xD

jsxshadow · January 2017

mooglemonger wrote: »

Sins only do crazy damage on their own when they use their ulti. Other then that its debuffs are being put on a target before the sin damages said target. The sin ulti is op and so are other classes ulti, that is the point if the ulti for each class ( stormbringer and venomancer ulti's come to mind being if you sit there and try to tank their ulti you will die)
As for debuffed targets being killed its called teamwork... Other classes lay down the debuffs, purge, amp, cc, wbatever else I'm not thinking of while classes like sins, wizards, archers, any other class lays down the damage taking said targets down.

You do know that the damage increase on the sins ulti only works in PvE? It has 0 effect on players. That doesnt mean that the ulti isnt OP cause its basically a 16 second immunity.

Yes, debuffs and teamplay are the key. Which is exactly why Tidal is so stupid OP and why the Tidal proc will be stupid OP on G17 weapons for already very tanky chars like Barbs/BMs/Seeker. But meh.

mooglemonger · January 2017

Nowhere does it say Master of Shadows skill damage increase only works in pve. Even if you are right, tonnes of people just stand there and tank the sin in ulti. So is the ulti op or are people just not moving when they should be?

Sure Tidal is op but doesn't every other class have their own survivals? Assassins until endgame geared are extremely squishy.

Also again gear discrepency comes into play. Imo thats the real imbalance.

blazerboy · January 2017

@mooglemonger the fact the skill gives a buff that has the same icon as db buff and says it's PvE means nothing... okay.... The skill doesn't specifically says it but the buff does.

mooglemonger · January 2017

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af156/rmaygard84/426c7cee-e1c3-4724-b548-1fc7476e92a3_zpsrx2sxqbb.png

This link to photoshop is the description when using it. If foes translates to mobs only then well I could be wrong. However I have alot of experiences when using it and seeing high numbers show up on my damage log when doing so, if it's possible all those times were just a coincidence, this buff never did anything to help my damage then I dunno what to say.

I think the sin hate comes from people endgame geared but probably not like the attacking sin. Everyone needs to realize to that not everybody rerolls to the new classes and stays working on the same character. I've been working on mine since I started this game early 2011. never rerolled, don't have any other endgame characters, however tonnes of alts and let me tell you if my main alt, a psy, had my sins gear level it probably would be way more of a pain to fight.

My experience having a sin as a main is well yea endgame sins are op but its not like it's handed to us. Tonnes of other classes with similar gear are extremely tough for me to kill. Stormbringers, Seekers, clerics, Barbs, BM's. Now I am just repeating what I've said in other threads...

Class Nerfs?

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