Boundless Purify Proc and Is Boundless Worth It?

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  • shade13
    shade13 Posts: 631 Arc User
    dblazen1 wrote: »
    Lies, you can not escape the kos venos police.
    If you are not a true veno, delete the fox from your signature.
    tiger-37.gif
    This is literally impossible tiger-2.gif
    Demon Venomancers benefit from the Boundless weapon because they are already equipped with more offensive skills. If my main was still Demon, I wouldn't consider going back.
    Apparently, only problem is money. In case of 100% refund these coins could be invested into future g17. But since they are spent and no1 is going to fully refund them (not only recast mats, but also refines for boundless), there is no point to revert. Done is done.
    aphrodita wrote: »
    the people in this Thread that keep talking about a "damage boost" might wanna use a pwcalc and face the actual truth about the r9.4 arcane weapons.
    Of course, not everyone of us rushed to make a new shiny weap without looking into calc, db and comparing numbers unlike some duskblades who failed to see the abscense of range on the boundless in the database. And don't forget that 200-300 digits may not be a win, but under heavy debuffs when you finally hit hard, these small % start making some difference.​​
  • demansfairy
    demansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    @aphrodita idk about you, but on my SB (CF set, max neuma, 15 aplitutde chart, all end game gear) the damage increase when i cacluated it to my dps was about 10% from my +12 3r9 wep ( which was at 23 Att lv 15 magic 12% chan) and about 1% increase to surivibilty which was nice. And the damage increase definetly showed when I got the wep and tried it out. I'm able to take out people that I could NEVER or almost never, kill before that's to the damage boost. Think I'd have to get neuma portal or something to that effect to make the 3r9 better than the 4r9 for me.
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • dblazen1
    dblazen1 Sh*tposting at the speed of light.Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    aphrodita wrote: »
    the people in this Thread that keep talking about a "damage boost" might wanna use a pwcalc and face the actual truth about the r9.4 arcane weapons.

    Yeah, or you should do a correct calc and see it yourself.
    Stats on CN r9rr beats our version of R9rr.

    here are 2 wizards (only the weapon are different, refined and sharded, couldn't be bothered to refine armour because this is about the weapon, also not switching to CN armor, because that wasn't the point):
    PWI version: http://mypers.pw/9/#435426 (the weapon is completely max statted here as well, which probably absolutely no one even has)
    CN version: http://mypers.pw/9/#435429
    side by side: http://mypers.pw/9/#435426/435429

    It's the armor that does not.​​
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  • splendideyes
    splendideyes Posts: 328 Arc User
    when you are max geared with josd as a psychic, you deal 100 additional damage per spirit blast on equally geared chars. mainly because of the attack level boost, since the magic attack is even far lower with r9.4

    and dblazen1: unlike you, i actually did proper testing on that website.
  • dblazen1
    dblazen1 Sh*tposting at the speed of light.Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    when you are max geared with josd as a psychic, you deal 100 additional damage per spirit blast on equally geared chars. mainly because of the attack level boost, since the magic attack is even far lower with r9.4

    and dblazen1: unlike you, i actually did proper testing on that website.

    Your point being what?
    He said "a damage boost", without giving actual numbers about what he means.
    A damage boost is a damage boost.

    So I don't know what you're trying to achieve, but you're just helping me prove my point.

    I have no idea what you mean with "the magic attack is even far lower with R9.4"

    Because it's not.​​
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  • magiceffect
    magiceffect Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    @splendideyes
    The actual difference varies a LOT based on the starting r9r3 wep, and stats, AND target deff level. Saying that you hit equally geared ppl 100 more is pointless. How many of your oponents, in a TW, or 1v1, are equally geared?

    Far lower base mag attk is..bull. There is a difference, but then again, in my case, I got 9 more attk levels, and more magic points (do not remember how many more, shld be around 8).

    If you really want to sound all ISmart-ish and shizz, saying things like 100 more damage with spirit blast is pointless. Some percentages would help more, even though that is also highly dependent on other stats.

    Skill wise, many of their damage is split between wep damage multiplier and base damage. I would naturally assume that specifying just one skill is also pointless.

    I am no pwcalc maniac and all, but just in my case, it FEELS like I am doing between 5% and 10% more damage with +11 wep (vs r9r3 +12), on mobs in FSP (so that we take out opponent stats variations to a degree). Remember, oponents that previously had 170 deff levels, while I had 180 attk levels, will now get hit a "lot" more when I have 189, since the attk-deff difference almost doubled!
    Dawnglory - SpellStormer (105 x 3): http://mypers.pw/10/#435948
  • catgirldesu
    catgirldesu Fluffy Fox Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    The R9r4 weapon gets more per refine than R9r3, and it has a magic attack add-on which brings the R9r4 to similar attack power as the R9r3. You also gain more magic points, assuming an average of 15 magic points on a R9r3 weapon (depends on luck). My base magic attack is actually higher with the R9r4 weapon. Then you have to consider the additional attack levels and critical. On top of it all you have a -12% channeling which can add to your DPS, if your R9r3 had a low -channeling roll. All in all, there is a noticeable increase in damage. Though, I don't know how it is for other classes. I only speak for Venomancers.

    ​​
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    The thing most people miss is that some arcane weapons had massive advantages over the weapons of other classes. So it heavily depends which class you compare. Psys and Mystics both got the 1200 mattack bonus for +12 refine (that any arcane gets on boundless btw) already on the limitless version and thus had an kinda unfair dmg advantage other the other arcanes that only peaked at 1050 mattack at +12. this is exactly why its always an upgrade (statwise) for wizards, clerics, storms and venos (sadly cler doesnt get the crit boost as well but meh).

    The higher your base stats are the more effective attack and def lvl become. remember that. I'd still say boundless is always an upgrade for any arcane stat-wise..but since I got my limitless back I can only say that this is of no matter. The difference in survi now with the limitless purify proc is soo much higher...I would never again consider boundless. That was one of the worst decisions I ever made in this game and I literally lost dozens of billions of coins just through pack gambling in my years in pwi..so that says alot.

    No matter which class you are...if you are not an absolute nonfactor and never have more then 1 enemy on yourself then go ahead. get boundless. If you have multi enemies on you stick to boundless or you will regret it like I did.
  • splendideyes
    splendideyes Posts: 328 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    you guys can keep attacking me with your assumptions, i even see a fellow psy thinking his new +11 weapon deals 10% more damage than his old weapon. thats pretty funny. you guys are wrong.
  • splendideyes
    splendideyes Posts: 328 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    http://mypers.pw/9/#432332 hf playing around.
  • catgirldesu
    catgirldesu Fluffy Fox Posts: 993 Arc User
    Don't take this as an attack, that's not my intention at all, but I would suggest not to rely on the mypers damage simulator too much. It's a pretty nice feature to use, but it doesn't completely reflect what happens in-game.

    While the simulator may show a small damage increase, the difference grows bigger once you start accounting for debuffs, gear difference (cards, star charts), number of hits and so on. Another thing to consider, as someone mentioned, is what stats the original R9r3 weapon had. Some people weren't so lucky, didn't want to reroll forever, so they kept average stats. A lot of these are not assumptions, but things players experienced in-game after getting their Boundless weapons.

    I'm not going to argue whether the cost was worth it or not. Since we ended up with this Purify Spell situation, most people will say no anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    ​​
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    The higher your base stats are the more effective attack and def lvl become. remember that.

    Attack and def lvl effectiveness is independant from other stats. You show once again how little you know about the game. :D
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016
  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    The higher your base stats are the more effective attack and def lvl become. remember that.

    Attack and def lvl effectiveness is independant from other stats. You show once again how little you know about the game. :D

    To be fair, the absolute amount of dmg per each attack level increases when there is more magical attack as there is more to multiply. You are correct in attack/defense levels working independently but fair bit of the time you are faced with multiple factors to account on your decision, like R9T3 roll.
    superfedee wrote: »
    again if you are an arcane and you maxed aeu rb2 set, nuemas, meridian, titles, matk fatestars lvl 50 20 apti chart,
    the 1k more base damage you get from boundless won't make any difference in your damage output.​​

    And how many such toons you can name? Thats right, you are talking bout extremely small minority while there is far greater number of players who do in fact gain fair bit of damage from boundless - depending on class of course. I personally would of gained some from going boundless but I cant justify spending billions on marginal wep upgrade when G17 will become affordable at one point or another.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • cosmosia1989
    cosmosia1989 Posts: 165 Arc User
    I still think you guys are missing alot here and only look at the comparision on a very facile-Level.

    First off. You must have all noticed that..no matter which Arcane weapon you look at..the min stat of the Base DMG is ALWAYS higher than the one from Limitless. Now if you would compare the AVG of Base DMG then you would clearly see that Boundless is alot superior purely statewise, compared to Limitless for anything but Psys. But if you now take into account that, even as a psy with a max stat Limitless, you'd still get +5 att lvl, +5 def lvl, 295 HP, higher min BaseDMG. If you just at that you get the equivalent of 5 josd/Deity. That alone outweights the cost factor for the weapon. That is just stat-wise tho and would be so nice if it wouldnt be for the crappy Boundless purify spell proc. Other classes, but esp venos, wizards and Stormbringer which have not even alot more min BaseDMG but also higher Max BaseDmg when comparing Boundless to a max stat Limitless...they also have more HP and 5% additional crit which makes a huge difference.

    When I first got my boundless from a 62 att lvl, 10% chan, 13 magic limitless and refined the boundless to +9 I had the exact same dmg-output, heck even a bit more due to the higher crit rate. Also...you are all correct about the minimal dmg increase when increasing basedmg by just 1k or 2k if anything besides that is already maxed. True. But you all seem to forget about the min 5 attack level you gain and that is exactly what pushes the dmg even higher ESPECIALLY if your stats are nearly maxed.
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    you guys can keep attacking me with your assumptions, i even see a fellow psy thinking his new +11 weapon deals 10% more damage than his old weapon. thats pretty funny. you guys are wrong.

    I dont think it was anyone's intention to attack you so I hope you don't take my response this way.

    I did upload your calc that you asked us to play with to try to find what you were seeing. I attempted to recreate an identical toon to the psychic you offered as a test subject to compare damage of US vs CN weapon. One thing to note is your character has the "PWI" version of crown of madness which is preventing the kestra's bonus from applying to your calc.

    The second point about using this calc is I was not actually able to recreate an identical toon. I have no idea what it is I'm missing, but even though this toon is verified by the calculator to have exactly the same buffs, stats, gear, star chart, spirit, cards, etc etc etc, and all stats are identical, this toon seems to deal more damage on my created toon. So I can't explain it. Maybe someone can see what I am missing.

    So I recreated ANOTHER toon (please take a moment to appreciate the time it went into recreating these test subjects >.<) with the exact same stats of the OTHER toon I made. And I came up with the same as everyone seems to belive: CN does about 200ish extra damage on like targets using glacial shards. Of course the damage difference will vary on different targets and using different skills.

    Here are screen shots of what I worked with:
    rK7ca2P.png
    Comparison of stats between your calc and test subject

    UC3ZHIH.png
    unexplainable damage difference between your calc and test subject

    ki71MQv.png
    New comparison of stats between test subject and test subject

    8twSryM.png
    Test subject vs Test subject both with CN weapon

    xSNmijA.png
    Test subject vs Test subject with CN weapon vs US weapon


    So, it could be that the calc you are working with has something off about it? Or just something I am missing maybe in your meaning as you're saying its about 100 extra damage. You're not wrong, the increase is really very small, but I suppose that small amount makes all the difference to some since its STILL a difference x)
    ​​
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    I still think you guys are missing alot here and only look at the comparision on a very facile-Level.

    First off. You must have all noticed that..no matter which Arcane weapon you look at..the min stat of the Base DMG is ALWAYS higher than the one from Limitless. Now if you would compare the AVG of Base DMG then you would clearly see that Boundless is alot superior purely statewise, compared to Limitless for anything but Psys. But if you now take into account that, even as a psy with a max stat Limitless, you'd still get +5 att lvl, +5 def lvl, 295 HP, higher min BaseDMG. If you just at that you get the equivalent of 5 josd/Deity. That alone outweights the cost factor for the weapon. That is just stat-wise tho and would be so nice if it wouldnt be for the crappy Boundless purify spell proc. Other classes, but esp venos, wizards and Stormbringer which have not even alot more min BaseDMG but also higher Max BaseDmg when comparing Boundless to a max stat Limitless...they also have more HP and 5% additional crit which makes a huge difference.

    When I first got my boundless from a 62 att lvl, 10% chan, 13 magic limitless and refined the boundless to +9 I had the exact same dmg-output, heck even a bit more due to the higher crit rate. Also...you are all correct about the minimal dmg increase when increasing basedmg by just 1k or 2k if anything besides that is already maxed. True. But you all seem to forget about the min 5 attack level you gain and that is exactly what pushes the dmg even higher ESPECIALLY if your stats are nearly maxed.

    I dont know if I am missing something but I feel like you guys are arguing about an agreement x)​​
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    superfedee wrote: »
    depends which skill you are using, skills that have +xxx% weapon damage added scale better with increased weapon damage (r9r3), skills with low or no +xxx% weapon damage added scale better with atk levels (r9r4)

    also its a josd vs josd scenario, which case is the only one where increased atk lvls have a bigger impact respect if u were in a unsharded vs unsharded, josd vs unsharded, deity vs unsharded, deity vs deity, unsharded vs deity scenarios

    and even in a non-maxed chart scenario like that, damage increase is just 3ish%, while u lose the good proc,

    worth? mhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i doubt

    also to who was saying wizards get the best from r9r4 weapon,

    wrong? wizards actually are the class that best exploits r9r3 weapon:

    stone barrier, it needs more hits to take the wiz down respect other arcane classes, you got good chances to proc puri in a actual reliable way... you could even change your meta around it with aquaflame or windshield (but yea paralyze ok, r9r4 puri would do surely worse tho)

    r9r4 purify it isn't a reliable proc, just like soul shatter on bows.... would you have the soul shatter bow or the spirit blackhole bow?
    same sh.it​​

    The skill xxx% bonus gets added on top of the patk/matk multiplier. And all of that is multiplied by weapon(+cards+...) damage.
    Wheter your skill does 1000% weapon damage or 1000+xxx% weapon damage, increasing the weapon damage has the same increase on skill damage if you neglect constant adds.

    To any uneducated ape/xHotx that wouldn't understand that... :)
    1000% * 5000 weapon damage = 50 000 skill damage
    1000% * 6000 weapon damage = 60 000 skill damage
    20% weapon damage increase gives 20% skill damage increase
    1200% * 5000 weapon damage = 60 000 skill damage
    1200% * 6000 weapon damage = 72 000 skill damage
    20% weapon damage increase gives 20% skill damage increase

    The only parameter in skill damage that affects the effectiveness of weapon damage is the constant not the xxx%.
    Atk level always give the same increase on direct damage skills

    As for wizards, when r9r4 Ruby realizes how much he is outperformed by r9r3 Ararat he will switch back. o:)
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    This is your cue to post a reaction time video dissolving a bm in base in tw @hawke1000

    As far as damage of cn weapon i figured it was already a given that yes it is a damage increase overall, it was up to personal preference whether the proc was worth the downgrade. I hate to kill my own thread but im not sure this is progressing.

    As far as the wizard thing goes it was only my personal opinion that wizards might be better able to make use of cn weapon, only because they already have excellent survival in pvp due to stealth teleport and cc skills. Your point is interesting about proc and one thought that comes to mind is watching someone like darca one versus one on tt. The guy is a pain at best due to puri. But imo its almost overkill in a skillfull wizards hands where someone making full use of cc and escape could make better use of extra damage.

    Still all my own opinion... But would i get cn on a wizard? The answer is no. Id far rather troll people by being unkillable even if i cant kill anyone :)
  • hawke1000
    hawke1000 Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    eirghan wrote: »
    This is your cue to post a reaction time video dissolving a bm in base in tw @hawke1000

    LOL XDD IKR! I'd do it too but then again, there's only so many cues that scream "TROLL" that I just look at the pablum of garbage that passes before my eyes and laugh...xDD

    eirghan wrote: »
    As far as damage of cn weapon i figured it was already a given that yes it is a damage increase overall, it was up to personal preference whether the proc was worth the downgrade. I hate to kill my own thread but im not sure this is progressing.

    As far as the wizard thing goes it was only my personal opinion that wizards might be better able to make use of cn weapon, only because they already have excellent survival in pvp due to stealth teleport and cc skills. Your point is interesting about proc and one thought that comes to mind is watching someone like darca one versus one on tt. The guy is a pain at best due to puri. But imo its almost overkill in a skillfull wizards hands where someone making full use of cc and escape could make better use of extra damage.

    Still all my own opinion... But would i get cn on a wizard? The answer is no. Id far rather troll people by being unkillable even if i cant kill anyone :)


    This! (in Bold)

    Eir you've literally summed it all up nicely in a few lines, props for that! - I pondered a lot over this & finally concluded there really is no "better" weapon, or at least not for Wizards. For some arcanes R9r4 might be downright inferior, such as Psychics IMO (They get +5 Def lvls I believe?) and in that case the purify proc on R9r3 makes it superior without question. This is totally different for Wizards at least, who get the +5% crit add on, which is basically why I stick to this weapon. The added attack levels (10 for me specifically vs my old weapon) are also a nice addition if not as much as the % crit that is added. I thought of several scenarios I could find myself in & tried to deduce the boons & drawbacks of having both weapons - So long as a Wizard is DDing without being engaged constantly, he will benefit with a R9r4 weapon and it will outshine the R9r3 counterpart. On the contrary, being focused heavily throughout might put him/her at a loss with the R9r4 weapon, in that case a R9r3 weapon would prove to be better overall. Basically which weapon is "better" will be highly subjective & situational; an R9r4 weapon despite having a lower proc rate will have more value for its procs vs the R9r3 weapon with its procs, I don't know how to elucidate this but an R9r4 weapon in its proced state will be superior for that very duration vs an R9r3 weapon in its proced state. Then there are several other scenarios that come to mind - there are occasions when I don't die at all throughout a mass pvp event - in that case, it would be generally safe to assume that the R9r4 weapon was a lot better than a R9r3 weapon would have been in the same situation.

    I myself feel that I am adept at kiting/surviving, with proper positioning & not over extending, I can survive just fine & so long as I am deleting my foes, I know that the R9r4 is helping me a lot there as compared to the R9r3 weapon. For most wizards though, R9r3 would probably be better since kiting/positioning seems to be the hardest part for them AFAIK but I certainly can and will roll with this R9r4 weapon & harness its true potential!

    Everything which you explained neatly in just two to three lines! <3<3:D@eirghan


    ~ Ruby_Inferno
  • dblazen1
    dblazen1 Sh*tposting at the speed of light.Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    superfedee wrote: »
    jesus @arspaulina#4310 @orinj how do i blacklist someone on the forums? why is this @notanyfox#3644 flaming anyone in any thread?

    also he really made a nonsense post just to try go against me.

    if you have a skill that is: base damage + 100% weapon damage
    and another skill with: base damage + 600% weapon damage

    the second skill scales better with r9r3, cause r9r3 has just a slightly better weapon damage value,
    while first skill will scale better with attack levels, because the skill itself just adds a little bit of weapon damage value.

    the added crit rate on wizard weapon i can't see it its usefulness...
    flame shield, sage bids...

    also in mid term horizon crit damage is getting heavy nerf, i won't trade crit rate for 4 times as much chance to proc puri

    it also comes down to your gameplay tho, if you prefere 1v1s yea r9r4,
    but in mass, r9r3 puri had been game breaking till primal mighty swing came up.

    You use asterelle's plugin, you can use that to filter out someone, no?​​
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  • dblazen1
    dblazen1 Sh*tposting at the speed of light.Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    superfedee wrote: »
    dblazen1 wrote: »
    superfedee wrote: »
    jesus @arspaulina#4310 @orinj how do i blacklist someone on the forums? why is this @notanyfox#3644 flaming anyone in any thread?

    also he really made a nonsense post just to try go against me.

    if you have a skill that is: base damage + 100% weapon damage
    and another skill with: base damage + 600% weapon damage

    the second skill scales better with r9r3, cause r9r3 has just a slightly better weapon damage value,
    while first skill will scale better with attack levels, because the skill itself just adds a little bit of weapon damage value.

    the added crit rate on wizard weapon i can't see it its usefulness...
    flame shield, sage bids...

    also in mid term horizon crit damage is getting heavy nerf, i won't trade crit rate for 4 times as much chance to proc puri

    it also comes down to your gameplay tho, if you prefere 1v1s yea r9r4,
    but in mass, r9r3 puri had been game breaking till primal mighty swing came up.

    You use asterelle's plugin, you can use that to filter out someone, no?

    how do i do that?

    Bottom right of a post, there should be Block, on the left to quote.
    Anyway, offtopic and stuff​​
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  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    superfedee wrote: »
    jesus @arspaulina#4310 @orinj how do i blacklist someone on the forums? why is this @notanyfox#3644 flaming anyone in any thread?

    also he really made a nonsense post just to try go against me.

    if you have a skill that is: base damage + 100% weapon damage
    and another skill with: base damage + 600% weapon damage

    the second skill scales better with r9r3, cause r9r3 has just a slightly better weapon damage value,
    while first skill will scale better with attack levels, because the skill itself just adds a little bit of weapon damage value.

    the added crit rate on wizard weapon i can't see it its usefulness...
    flame shield, sage bids...

    also in mid term horizon crit damage is getting heavy nerf, i won't trade crit rate for 4 times as much chance to proc puri

    it also comes down to your gameplay tho, if you prefere 1v1s yea r9r4,
    but in mass, r9r3 puri had been game breaking till primal mighty swing came up.​​

    People pointing out your convenient lies and misunderstanding of the game are annoying, right ? :)

    Weapon damage is included in base damage. So increasing weapon damage gives the same increase to both skills damage.

    base damage = multiplier * weapon damage
    so your first skill is : multiplier * weapon damage + 100% weapon damage = (multiplier+1) * weapon damage
    your second skill is: multiplier * weapon damage + 600% weapon damage = (multiplier+6) * weapon damage

    Do you still not get it ?

    I am disappointed by your aggressivity towards me. This kind of behavior will not get you back into Crisis. o:)
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016