Sins Were Op But Then.....so 6 Months Later.......

Auerlius - Archosaur

Ok basically quit after running into mod supported propaganda that sins were fine and balanced. Just checking in now, don't care enough to try to help the game change. However I am curious. How do people feel? Are sins perfect as is or too op? does anyone even care about 1v1 pvp in this broken *** game?

On arch pvp is basically dead now, only tw and nw are outlets and i refuse to do either as gimped as stuff is. How much is too much when it comes to cards? was this the new power creep for us to chase? and if so when does it balance out? once everyone has S or S+ cards?


Lots of questions for the trolls to get at, but a convo is what you make of it. i hope both sides can present a logical and enlightening contribution to this thread. thank you.

Evryn - Morai

Sins are still sins. Stealthy, heavy phys damagedealers, but with limited control options - best suited for taking out arcanes, and worst when pitted against Seekers, BMs and Barbs (in that order). I'm not bothering with 1v1 PvP myself, the balance is simply too far off to make that fun. On the NW I can handle equally geared sins on my BM usually (I'd say 3 out of 4 fights I'd win - problem is my gear's still rather crappy).

Eoria - Harshlands

Pretty sure people rightfully bagged on you because you kept claiming archers were OP which is the furthest thing from the truth and you sucked at playing a cleric. Not because of sins.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Pretty sure people rightfully bagged on you because you kept claiming archers were OP which is the furthest thing from the truth and you sucked at playing a cleric. Not because of sins.

Its key, the brotherhood of stick and string will get further nerfs on next expansion.

Fail_BM - Raging Tide

I really thought this was another veno thread. As Evryn said, sins are still sins.

opkossy

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Pretty sure people rightfully bagged on you because you kept claiming archers were OP which is the furthest thing from the truth and you sucked at playing a cleric. Not because of sins.

+1 to this comment.

Now excuse me while I proceed to roll my eyes at this thread. "Mod supported propaganda" lololol

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

OPKossy wrote: »

+1 to this comment.

Now excuse me while I proceed to roll my eyes at this thread. "Mod supported propaganda" lololol

#bankossy2014

afkitsune

I'll tell you one thing, archers are not overpowered. If an archer hits your full g16 veno/cleric/mystic for 40,000-60,000 a hit. It was because you don't know how to use your classes skills right, didn't remember to get war avatar cards, or you put the wrong shards in your armor b:shocked

Anyone who knows what they are doing will find R9R3 archers to be a mild annoyance in 1 vs 1.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

afkitsune wrote: »

I'll tell you one thing, archers are not overpowered. If an archer hits your full g16 veno/cleric/mystic for 40,000-60,000 a hit. It was because you don't know how to use your classes skills right, didn't remember to get war avatar cards, or you put the wrong shards in your armor b:shocked

Anyone who knows what they are doing will find R9R3 archers to be a mild annoyance in 1 vs 1.

Archer's 1v1? Unless they completely out skill you, arent too much of a problem.

And if you are getting hit for 40-60k, your gear is either very bad, or they have a neuma portal set.

On another note, this guy is mad because he was put in his place several times about the reality of sins and archers, and the fact he isn't the best cleric out there. Sins do what is within their bounds, not what is outside of said bounds.

OPKossy wrote: »

+1 to this comment.

Now excuse me while I proceed to roll my eyes at this thread. "Mod supported propaganda" lololol

That was hilarious.

Auerlius - Archosaur

thanks for setting me straight but i neither said that they were OP or any statement about archers in this post. when i said arch i was refering to archosaur the server. for that matter, i simply asked how do people feel now... and thank you kossy for running to prove the the mods do care.....about the game.....lmao.....;-) honestly though just poking fun. i really don't care enough to make the efforts i once did. with that being said back to obscurity for me...in shame. you guys hurt me so, especially you dion, you every word slices me to the bone....suicide is my only option now.

XXHotXx - Morai

lawl limited control and limited to kill arcanes,

last nws it happened that a sin on my server hitted someone with 55k hp, 80k p def, 120 def levels and 1200 spirit for 38k damage

a good sin will **** you in 1on1 and will **** your team in mass pvp

if you try to focus him down, he wont get purged (either he can stealth or kite away easily)

and anything that's not purged at endgame it's really almost impossible to kill (except archers)

killeresras

I will always have to agree with this. I find the damage output of sins to be to much.Getting spark eliminated/cursed jail by every sin is very annoying. I want new charms sins hit to hard to be able to bypass charms with 3 of their top hitting skills. Seriously what is the point of giving them a buff that gives them uber atk lvls with the downside of attack speed if they are just going to ignore the downside.If I do survive I have to wait out tidal and if I get that far they typically stealth and then have tidal by the time they come back. Stealth pots shouldn't be level based it's very annoying as stealth is typically the only way I lose to sins(their are exceptions). Also stealth pots should last longer because alot of times sins holypath away and stealth pots are a quest...they have a while before they activate. Honestly stealth should be exactly like "share the stealth" it has a time limit and a decent cd nobody would mind sins having multiple time limited stealths. But 2 Perma stealths (1 being able to stealth while being attacked and then on top of it getting a spark for being saved) is very OP and boring to fight against.

-no more charm bypassing multi hit skills please(what's the point of p.def charm if they block the weakest hit?) Every hit has a chance to zerk crit (yea that's fair).
-longer cd tidal please
-timed stealthing please (it is so boring waiting for sins to finally come out of stealth and needing to be prepared just waiting for like an hour to click expel)
-remove stealth sparking

Stop loving sins so much.

Also archers are only op in group pvp. They are quite average in 1v1

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

killeresras wrote: »

Also archers are only op in group pvp. They are quite average in 2v2.

Archers and OP in same sentence, I want some of that stuff.

killeresras

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Archers and OP in same sentence, I want some of that stuff.

Archers mow Arcanes down in mass pvp because of how hard and how fast they hit and not to mention their purge chance if r999

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Pull up OPs prior threads and note the same people are posting with more or less the same opinions.

Sins are OP
Archers are OP
Wizzys didnt get nerfed
Clerics suck in 1v1
Venos are weak

Discuss.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

killeresras wrote: »

Archers mow Arcanes down in mass pvp because of how hard and how fast they hit and not to mention their purge chance if r999

If you ever tried played even geared PK, you might have some idea. Archer is extremely efficient killing undergeared targets, purge is useful but the procrate isnt really that amazing. Archer isnt a DD with current endgame and upcoming expansion will nerf that aspect of the class evern further. And if you want support DD class, Venos, Barbs, BMs are far superior to archers.

Ps. Anybody who claims archers hit hard on even gear is an idiot.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Ps. Anybody who claims archers hit hard on even gear is an idiot.

Truth.

Quilue - Sanctuary

What really happened is that endgame chars all got a lot tankier and a lot of new skills gave them either good utility or good damage, which was necessary; except archer skillset didn't really improve with Primal at all.

Further screwed is the fact that archer is just about the only class left that rely on auto attacks, and they are nerfing this to the ground next update. This version, you already see a Primal damage amp that works with skills, not attacks - essentially giving every other class an additional mastery.

Except archers.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

What really happened is that endgame chars all got a lot tankier and a lot of new skills gave them either good utility or good damage, which was necessary; except archer skillset didn't really improve with Primal at all.

Further screwed is the fact that archer is just about the only class left that rely on auto attacks, and they are nerfing this to the ground next update. This version, you already see a Primal damage amp that works with skills, not attacks - essentially giving every other class an additional mastery.

Except archers.

Its more or less the fact of defense passive. It beefed up everyones defense. Crit and skill dmg buff were introduced to counter the effect, sadly neither is exactly amazing to an archer.

unrefuted

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Pull up OPs prior threads and note the same people are posting with more or less the same opinions.

Sins are OP
Archers are OP
Wizzys didnt get nerfed
Clerics suck in 1v1
Venos are weak

Discuss.

I think this is attributed to the fact that people don't change their opinion unless they experience it themselves.

People who claim sins are OP need to go play a sin and fight a good barb in 1v1.
People who claim archers are OP need to go play an archer and fight a lot of classes out side of mass pk.
People who claim wizards are under powered need to fight a good wizard.
People who claim clerics suck in 1v1 need to go fight a good cleric.
People who claim venos are weak need to go fight a good veno.

The real problem is that there isn't a single server with equal gears where everyone can go and fight each other on to prove or disprove things.

Quilue - Sanctuary

PW just needs to make up their damn minds about whether archers are support or damage. Damage-wise,they are getting none of the high damage nukes other classes are getting; support-wise, the costs and cooldown of amps and debuffs are too high.

2min cd on BV, 1min cd on Inferno, 3min cd on Frost Splash, 3min cd on Alacrity; not to mention the spark cost. The only decent thing that is spammable is STA. There is like nothing to do rest of the time except pea shoot for crappy damage.

Can't rely on an archer to do anything during the crucial moments. Aim Low and Stun both have chance to miss and to fail, on top of possibly procing Purify. None of this gets updated, not this update, not next update. I find myself in TW acting like a debuffer, stun/freeze/debuff and move to other targets and Barrage when I can. It's so stupid because a cleric or veno would suit the role much better on top of dealing more damage.

Speaking of which...

With Primal Cyclone, clerics now beats archers in continuous ranged DPS, benefiting fully from the Primal damage amp passive, outputting Cyclones at almost the same rate as auto attacks, slowing move speed continuously, receiving twice the chi gain, and only having to deal with mag buff instead of multiple layers of phys buffs. Plus extra weapon damage multipliers from both Cyclone and UVD...

I can probably go full UVD cleric and do better in a damage role in TW doing 3 spark cyclones with constant Spirit Gift buffs. Heck even robes nowadays have more pdef than mdef.

Really how many max geared archers are left on Sanct? How many archers have moved on to other classes? Most of the people who don't reroll are just pissed because all their Meridian, titles, 105/105/105 etc. would have to be redone and re-spending forever on this stupid game is not worth it.

HESOKA - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

PW just needs to make up their damn minds about whether archers are support or damage. Damage-wise,they are getting none of the high damage nukes other classes are getting; support-wise, the costs and cooldown of amps and debuffs are too high.

2min cd on BV, 1min cd on Inferno, 3min cd on Frost Splash, 3min cd on Alacrity; not to mention the spark cost. The only decent thing that is spammable is STA. There is like nothing to do rest of the time except pea shoot for crappy damage.

Can't rely on an archer to do anything during the crucial moments. Aim Low and Stun both have chance to miss and to fail, on top of possibly procing Purify. None of this gets updated, not this update, not next update. I find myself in TW acting like a debuffer, stun/freeze/debuff and move to other targets and Barrage when I can. It's so stupid because a cleric or veno would suit the role much better on top of dealing more damage.

Speaking of which...

With Primal Cyclone, clerics now beats archers in continuous ranged DPS, benefiting fully from the Primal damage amp passive, outputting Cyclones at almost the same rate as auto attacks, slowing move speed continuously, receiving twice the chi gain, and only having to deal with mag buff instead of multiple layers of phys buffs. Plus extra weapon damage multipliers from both Cyclone and UVD...

I can probably go full UVD cleric and do better in a damage role in TW doing 3 spark cyclones with constant Spirit Gift buffs. Heck even robes nowadays have more pdef than mdef.

Really how many max geared archers are left on Sanct? How many archers have moved on to other classes? Most of the people who don't reroll are just pissed because all their Meridian, titles, 105/105/105 etc. would have to be redone and re-spending forever on this stupid game is not worth it.

Stop your BS QQ and learn your class.

I've rekt every class except SOME assassins when I played an EA. And I didn't face trash players at all.

Archers at end game are Gods if played smart. I've seen end game archers in RT who use faith when I put them to sleep, next stun lock they die and later QQ Sins are OP. Darn idiots.

HESOKA - Raging Tide

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

lawl limited control and limited to kill arcanes,

last nws it happened that a sin on my server hitted someone with 55k hp, 80k p def, 120 def levels and 1200 spirit for 38k damage

a good sin will **** you in 1on1 and will **** your team in mass pvp

if you try to focus him down, he wont get purged (either he can stealth or kite away easily)

and anything that's not purged at endgame it's really almost impossible to kill (except archers)

Do us a small favour and go read a Venomancer skill called "Ironwood Scarab", perhaps next time you can come up with a hypothesis for what I think is probably a made up story of yours.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »

Stop your BS QQ and learn your class.

I've rekt every class except SOME assassins when I played an EA. And I didn't face trash players at all.

Archers at end game are Gods if played smart. I've seen end game archers in RT who use faith when I put them to sleep, next stun lock they die and later QQ Sins are OP. Darn idiots.

Dont kid yourself. After certain point of skill on sins part it doesnt matter how godlike archer is, sin will win in the end. Same goes for every HA class and pretty much all the rest too. If you rekt people on EA, it only meant they really werent that good. Really, the only way EA is ever gonna kill people at endgame is if their opponent goes herp derp offensive and basically hands the kill on a silver platter.

HESOKA - Raging Tide

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Dont kid yourself. After certain point of skill on sins part it doesnt matter how godlike archer is, sin will win in the end. Same goes for every HA class and pretty much all the rest too. If you rekt people on EA, it only meant they really werent that good. Really, the only way EA is ever gonna kill people at endgame is if their opponent goes herp derp offensive and basically hands the kill on a silver platter.

You're just a typical gamer so I don't blame your ignorance about archer's capabilities.

XXHotXx - Morai

HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »

You're just a typical gamer so I don't blame your ignorance about archer's capabilities.

your ego doesnt match the box of rocks held by your neck

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »

You're just a typical gamer so I don't blame your ignorance about archer's capabilities.

Oh why dont you enlighten us with your limitless knowledge? Start with how you reliably beat say barb, BM and psy that arent completely incompetent. Anybody can act like they are all this but it proves nothing bout their ability to play whatever class they claim to be good at.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

*snip*

Archers are still the most end gamed class at my server, and we still don't have an endgame sin.

hiitsmeguys

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

lawl limited control and limited to kill arcanes,

last nws it happened that a sin on my server hitted someone with 55k hp, 80k p def, 120 def levels and 1200 spirit for 38k damage

a good sin will **** you in 1on1 and will **** your team in mass pvp

if you try to focus him down, he wont get purged (either he can stealth or kite away easily)

and anything that's not purged at endgame it's really almost impossible to kill (except archers)

This kind of damage on a character with gear of that caliber is only possible with demon IW + debuffs.

tsyfall

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

your ego doesnt match the box of rocks held by your neck

This is just...
Wow.

Sorry. Give me a moment to compose myself.

This is just the most gorgeous, simply fabulous, absolutely most wonderful insult I have seen in nearly 6 months. I applaud you, kind sir. Thank you for brightening my day.

Quilue - Sanctuary

I've watched RT TWs, almost everyone on there are one shots. You don't know what a tanky HA or even AA is, not surprised at all someone on RT can still spew BS like "archer can rek."