Community Update [September]

Jadsia - Lost City

JessJess - Raging Tide wrote: »

You are a rude know it all that knows nothing at all. Having this opinion does not automatically make me an FC baby, and in fact I am not. Despite hating FC as much as I hate TT I still have the opinion that this was a BS move that went against the wishes of most of the players that are still here....and they are dwindling fast. Opinionated much? b:shutup

Opinionated much? LOL! Pot calling the kettle black.

I saw what I saw over the 6 year period I played the game. It's a BS move if you were making money off of frost or a lacky skipping 99% of the game just to be a level 10x one shot wonder because lack of skill, lack of gear, lack of knowing the toon. As I stated. New players are not going to know what life in the game was like with frost so it's going to be completely irrelevant to them. They will be better players because they actually have to play their toon to advance instead of herp derping in an instance all day.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Not sure about other servers but mine had its best population before hypers were enable in frost and that declined afterwards when people were allowed to skip 99% of the game to get to 100+. Getting there is supposed to be the challenge of the game as it was before frost was hyper enabled not just being 100+ after getting it in a week.

This instance gratification **** needs to stop. It's what killed the game. Not actually playing it to its full potential from start all through the levels to end game.

When was the last time you actually saw a World chat for a 6x, 7x, 8x, or 9x party for TT to farm mats so these players can make their own gear? When was the last time you saw 6x+ farming mats to make the subs to make their gear? It was really refreshing to see WC for BH 39 and BH51 not to mention a WC for a PV for 4x toons last night.

I'm pretty sure Hypers didn't kill the game, considering my faction toped at almost 160 online during TW back then.

What did kill the game was R9. Why? Because it wasted existing players effort. It widened the gear gap. It made the game more p2w. But most importantly: It made it harder to stay competitive!

There is a clear correlation where the harder it is for a new player to reach a competitive level of gameplay, the smaller the player base became.

(Note: staying competitive vs being given everything are different concepts. A lv 100 can stay competitive to a 105. A TT99 is NOT competitive to R9rr.)

Why were people fine with TT gears back then? Because even the csers had only TT gears, and people could actually stay competitive by farming and wearing TT gears. Now? Do you honestly think TT gears are worth a damn? I saw full r9rr +12 players get freaking 1 shotted. What do you think TT gears will accomplish?

Will removing Hypers make TT gears competitive? No.
Will removing Hypers make people happy to have TT gears again? No.
Will removing Hypers make people be more willing to take people in TT gears on their Warsong/FSP/Whatever runs? No.

Basically, all this does is a disservice to any new players who actually want to be competitive. And I assure you, it is the competitive players that make the game more fun, it is the competitive players that drive PvP/TW/NW, and it is the competitive players that makes the company money - not the casuals.

Jadsia - Lost City

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

That is halfassed reasoning created to support your personal views and I dont find it too convincing. Actually its flatout idiotic argument - You really saying people are so bend on QQing they will take a side they dont agree with just to be able to QQ?

And you clearly have no clue what you are talking bout. There is absolutely no reason the forum would have higher % of say *** users than there is in game. I am sure % wont be exactly the same but there is no reason for it to be drastically different. Same holds for whole FC debate and I would argue its the ones who are against FC hypering that are more active on forums. The FCers are busy doing stuff(leveling) in game while the already leveled players with nothing better to do have time to browse forums. But that too is speculation w/o any proof.

rotfl. If I saw the kind of pathetic non stop QQ in the game as I do on the forum I would have quit a long time ago. Were you around when the forum was non stop goon QQ? I never ever saw anyoen complaining about that in the game and I very rarely even see anyone complaining about hypers being disabled in frost in the game now.

* Psst - Some can still use a training esoterica in frost. And those complaining about reborn not being able to hyper in frost you still get 4x exp boost from just being reborn before 100 and 3.5x for 2nd rebirth. Add that to the training esoterica. And as previously mentioned in this thread hyper in FBs. One can do that all day long.

JessJess - Raging Tide

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Opinionated much? LOL! Pot calling the kettle black.

I saw what I saw over the 6 year period I played the game. It's a BS move if you were making money off of frost or a lacky skipping 99% of the game just to be a level 10x one shot wonder because lack of skill, lack of gear, lack of knowing the toon. As I stated. New players are not going to know what life in the game was like with frost so it's going to be completely irrelevant to them. They will be better players because they actually have to play their toon to advance instead of herp derping in an instance all day.

Over 860 posts from you b:shocked Yeah, I would call it opinionated. One of those that spends all day going through forum posts that they disagree with so you can insult them for having their opinion. You think your 6 years of playing makes you extra special I think. I just have 4 years playing, QQ I will never be able to know it all like you do. b:sad

pachwenko

I'm still waiting for a new DQ system. Dont really care about the hypers or earning time, my fsp squad where i accidently kill the axes with a aoe might but oh well.

DQ system please! b:kiss

opkossy

JessJess - Raging Tide wrote: »

Over 860 posts from you b:shocked Yeah, I would call it opinionated. One of those that spends all day going through forum posts that they disagree with so you can insult them for having their opinion.

860 posts over 4 years.

That averages out to 1 post every other day, give or take.


That's... nowhere near as bad as you're making it sound. Really it's a pretty silly thing to try and use as a basis for your argument.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

They will be better players because they actually have to play their toon to advance instead of herp derping in an instance all day.

This is the single most ridiculous thing being said about hypers disabled in Frost.

They will be better players from grinding quests? Or because they repeat the same instances day in and out doing bh (herp derping, as you put it?)? Oh, I know...its the AFK zhenning that builds skills...or the mindless PV aoe (again, herp derping in an instance)?
The alternatives provide extremely little more in terms of learning anything over what could have been in FC.

What they've done is kind of extreme. FC is an 80+ instance. Why not just enforce that?

Jadsia - Lost City

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Hypers didn't kill the game, considering my faction toped at almost 160 online during TW back then.

What did kill the game was R9. Why? Because it wasted existing players effort. It widened the gear gap. It made the game more p2w. But most importantly: It made it harder to stay competitive!

There is a clear correlation where the harder it is for a new player to reach a competitive level of gameplay, the smaller the player base became.

(Note: staying competitive vs being given everything are different concepts. A lv 100 can stay competitive to a 105. A TT99 is NOT competitive to R9rr.)

Why were people fine with TT gears back then? Because even the csers had only TT gears, and people could actually stay competitive by farming and wearing TT gears. Now? Do you honestly think TT gears are worth a damn? I saw full r9rr +12 players get freaking 1 shotted. What do you think TT gears will accomplish?

Will removing Hypers make TT gears competitive? No.
Will removing Hypers make people happy to have TT gears again? No.
Will removing Hypers make people be more willing to take people in TT gears on their Warsong/FSP/Whatever runs? No.

Basically, all this does is a disservice to any new players who actually want to be competitive. And I assure you, it is the competitive players that make the game more fun, it is the competitive players that drive PvP/TW/NW, and it is the competitive players that makes the company money - not the casuals.

One can farm r9rrr if one is wanting to be competitive. It takes effort. The same kind of effort that one puts forth to leveling from 1 to 100 they way it was before frost and the way it is now. The way it is now is still much easier because there are so many more ways to do it than there ws before frost. End game gear is in the cash shop and is available for anyone to get. Those who spend money get it faster than those who farm it. But I know a lot of people who farmed it and didn't spend any real world money on the game. They farmed and spent other people's real world money for it. I just got my r9 ring and I didn't spend any real world money on it nor will I. I farmed my herc, my nix and my monkey king.

People are going to need TT gears to make upgraded TT gears. Then people will upgrade those to NV. Then upgrade those. r9rrr is supposed to be end game. It's supposed to be what end game people put their effort into getting to stay competitive. No, I cannot compete with r9rrr +12 now but if I work at it eventually I will be able to. Isn't that part of the process in playing the game? Not if you have the entitlement mentality a lot of the frost QQers have because they lost their instant gratification or their way of capitalizing off those who want that instant gratification.

Wealth, gear, experience, skills are all accumulative. Accumulating it is what the game is about. It all takes effort and time.

ovenusarmanio

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ok, not hypering in fcc does not really bother me either way. But, could we have some clarification. Either you or DoD stated in another thread hypers working in frost was a glitch. Now it is a change. Which is it really. If it is no longer going to be a exp instance why has it not been reverted back to the farming instance it was. And personally I think it "not never intending to be a exp instance" is not on the level. If that was the case, then why was everything in it changed. No drops at all. There are only coin drops and the occasional fc weapon/gear drop from bosses.

FC was originally a farming instance, but then it got turned into an experience instance. It was never intended to be hypered though and indeed we are the only legal version where that remained an option even after the goon glitch. Which is the point in time the other versions that had it turned it off. I knwo because a couple of them came complaining here blaming us. PWE wanted it because this game used to be a grindfest. PWCN has since introduced changes that make that no longer the case, but FC still wasn't changed back. Instead we just had our own custom version, and the error was that lately China has been accidentally sending us the FC that everyone else has instead of ours.

Considering that low game activity increased the last time it broke and that's also the case this time, they've decided to keep the change even though it was sent to us in error.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

rotfl. If I saw the kind of pathetic non stop QQ in the game as I do on the forum I would have quit a long time ago. Were you around when the forum was non stop goon QQ? I never ever saw anyoen complaining about that in the game and I very rarely even see anyone complaining about hypers being disabled in frost in the game now.

Who has real arguments in game anyways? Its quite horrible platform for such a thing. It has very little to do with people "QQing more" on forums. Its also the point where our staff might actually read these posts while in game its not going to happen and any QQ will be a complete waste.

Ps. That eso is totally going to make FC xp da bomb. Do you even read what you wrote before you press reply?

ovenusarmanio

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

One gotta love the stupidity of this statement. Why would forum have drastically different opinion from playerbase? Sure sample is small and not all that reliable but its quite clear majority wants hypers in FC in one form or another. But I guess Im just QQer, QQ.

First poll, majority voted in favor of restricting FC. Second poll it's fluctuated between 50/51 percent, with the current slim majority 51% in favor. Once you account for the alt votes, the community is split down the middle. That is no way a clear majority of people wanting hypers.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

That is halfassed reasoning created to support your personal views and I dont find it too convincing. Actually its flatout idiotic argument - You really saying people are so bend on QQing they will take a side they dont agree with just to be able to QQ?

And you clearly have no clue what you are talking bout. There is absolutely no reason the forum would have higher % of say *** users than there is in game. I am sure % wont be exactly the same but there is no reason for it to be drastically different. Same holds for whole FC debate and I would argue its the ones who are against FC hypering that are more active on forums. The FCers are busy doing stuff(leveling) in game while the already leveled players with nothing better to do have time to browse forums. But that too is speculation w/o any proof.

Also, actually the forums do tend to more strong negative bias than is present in game. But that's actually true of every forum, not just PWI. That's because people are more likely to post when they have a strong reason to and we as people tend to edge towards complaints more than taking the time to "formally" lodge compliments. The number of people who just enjoy using the forums and do it regardless if there is some more important opinion they want to expressl represent a smaller portion of the playerbase than the norm and they can go one way or another. Those people are your regulars. That said, once a major change happens that has either a large impact or leaves things in uncertainty there is also always increased activity in both directions. It makes a good time to take a poll and the poll's legitimacy is a good gauge of player opinion if not a flawed one.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

No FC hypering is going to directly affect any new classes, if those PW2 topics turn out to be an expansion for this game.
I, and others, simply won't want to play new classes, having to level them through the same quests and PV/bh instances that we've all done so many times before.
Personally, any alts I have below 90 are now dead and I have no interest in the new classes.
I have done the bh's, PV's, gammas, deltas, zhenning and even FQ way back in the day. I have no interest in putting months of grinding the same boring bh instances for an alt character.

I know the whole community doesn't feel that way, but I would bet a large portion of it does.

Jadsia - Lost City

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is the single most ridiculous thing being said about hypers disabled in Frost.

They will be better players from grinding quests? Or because they repeat the same instances day in and out doing bh (herp derping, as you put it?)? Oh, I know...its the AFK zhenning that builds skills...or the mindless PV aoe (again, herp derping in an instance)?
The alternatives provide extremely little more in terms of learning anything over what could have been in FC.

What they've done is kind of extreme. FC is an 80+ instance. Why not just enforce that?

I'd rather be ridiculous and see WC asking for squads for low level BHs and FBs and what not than be smart like you. At least I know that low levels are actually playing the game as it should be played.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

First poll, majority voted in favor of restricting FC. Second poll it's fluctuated between 50/51 percent, with the current slim majority 51% in favor. Once you account for the alt votes, the community is split down the middle. That is no way a clear majority of people wanting hypers.

I did say wanting hypering in FC in one form or another in part you did quote. I dont have to go check thread to say amount of ppl who want complete removal(current stage) is ~10% at most.

bloodedone87

I never seen Snowy Village so emptyb:laugh
I wanted FC back. not for the FC babies that lvl up from 1 to 100 in a weak( more or less) but for ppl that like FC squads after lvl 80 to get a little bit more exp, beside the other exp that things ppl already mentioned give.And that will make me to............ NOT quit the game. Just cause FC has been shut down wont make me quit. There are many other things to do in the game, not just FC.Its sad that has become a dead instance. At least they could have make it available hypering lvl80+ or a farming instance again.Im sad that will take me a little more time to lvl up my psy since i dont do PV and cube.But still wont make me quit. Im at lvl 94 with it and i work so much for him and his gear to just trow it all away. Also got mats for TT99 gear, suplies for raps and canies for T1 and T2 and molds and badges for T3. If i quit now i will trash all for nothing.
To lvl up i do BH, BQ, Divine Quests. And some days i go in hell or heaven and hyper kill mobs 8-9lvl higher than my char.
Reborn ppl dont need FC at all to lvl up since all exp is 4x after first reborn and 3,5x after second reborn.With just bh reborn 90+ can get 3mil exp per day. for finishing I. II, III bh.With BQ 1280000. If they do divines( lets say it just white divine) 700000 exp.Also the reborn quest lines give nice amount of exp.If i remember corect somewere at lvl90 you get like 12 mil exp just finishing a part of the quest.
I m even saving normal quests lvl80+ to do them after reborn.Those with 80 mobs nedeed to be killed. 4x exp per mob. and 4 x exp for delivering quest.

JessJess - Raging Tide

OPKossy wrote: »

860 posts over 4 years.

That averages out to 1 post every other day, give or take.


That's... nowhere near as bad as you're making it sound. Really it's a pretty silly thing to try and use as a basis for your argument.

Oh good grief. I posted my opinion about this topic and this person not only replied to my post to argue with my opinion but does the same for just about anyone that has an opinion that is not their own. Then when I called them opinionated for insulting me for having an opinion they said I'm the kettle calling the pot black. While they have 860 posts in 6 years and I have about 14 now in 4 years...meh seemed a pretty good basis for this particular argument.

ovenusarmanio

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

I did say wanting hypering in FC in one form or another in part you did quote. I dont have to go check thread to say amount of ppl who want complete removal(current stage) is ~10% at most.

No but it's pretty unclear to know whether those people would vote for no restriction if they had to pick between the two extremes. If you are going to count them though in a general group howeer, then it's more dishonest to say they want it kept the way it was. Because they voted for a restriction. Which would indicate they weren't happy with the current anything goes format of FC.

That's why I say it's unclear what the majority opinion on that was.

Jadsia - Lost City

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No FC hypering is going to directly affect any new classes, if those PW2 topics turn out to be an expansion for this game.
I, and others, simply won't want to play new classes, having to level them through the same quests and PV/bh instances that we've all done so many times before.
Personally, any alts I have below 90 are now dead and I have no interest in the new classes.
I have done the bh's, PV's, gammas, deltas, zhenning and even FQ way back in the day. I have no interest in putting months of grinding the same boring bh instances for an alt character.

I know the whole community doesn't feel that way, but I would bet a large portion of it does.

Out of all the toons on my server, say there are 700 or 800 active (as in been logged on iin the past couple weeks), I wonder how many of those are alts. I mean if an average person had 5 leveled alts in the game that would mean that there are like 140 to 160 active players on my server. When we do NW it's not hard to notice out of the 400 players there that a lot of them are just someone's alt getting tokens.

My point is that this game would best be served if we did away with it being a bonanza for alts and having actual players behind the toons. I'm not going to miss yours or anyone else's alts.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

At least I know that low levels are actually playing the game as it should be played.

So closed minded.
Well, I'm glad you take comfort in people being forced to regrind the same bh instances day in and out because you believe there's only one way to play and enjoy a game.
It's pointless to say much more when you take a stance like your personal idea of whats 'actually playing' is the only right way.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

No but it's pretty unclear to know whether those people would vote for no restriction if they had to pick between the two extremes. If you are going to count them though in a general group howeer, then it's more dishonest to say they want it kept the way it was. Because they voted for a restriction. Which would indicate they weren't happy with the current anything goes format of FC.

That's why I say it's unclear what the majority opinion on that was.

The only reason there would be 2 extremes is if, which likely is the case, devs are just too lazy to do anything bout it. I wouldnt put it past China to just say "deal with it" and our staff trying to look like its not the case. Either way I picked my words carefully for a reason and there is nothing dishonest in them. Forcing to choose between 2 extremes is in my opinion arbitrary.

ovenusarmanio

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

The only reason there would be 2 extremes is if, which likely is the case, devs are just too lazy to do anything bout it. I wouldnt put it past China to just say "deal with it" and our staff trying to look like its not the case. Either way I picked my words carefully for a reason and there is nothing dishonest in them. Forcing to choose between 2 extremes is in my opinion arbitrary.

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think they will enable hypers in the way voted on that thread. I'd like if they did, but PWCN and every other version haven't had hypers in there for years. It was a mistake that PWE asked to be kept in our version in the first place. Our was already a custom version just letting us use it with no limitation. I'm just saying we can't claim to know what the majority opinion on this is, so anyone claiming to be siding with the majority as the current poll is problematic at best. Lots of people spoke out but the community was pretty divided this time around.

Jadsia - Lost City

Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So closed minded.
Well, I'm glad you take comfort in people being forced to regrind the same bh instances day in and out because you believe there's only one way to play and enjoy a game.
It's pointless to say much more when you take a stance like your personal idea of whats 'actually playing' is the only right way.

And nobody does this at end game? ROTFL

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

And nobody does this at end game? ROTFL

You forget...what is the same regrinding that is FC...

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

but thats not boring repetition. Nope. *faceplant*

Jadsia - Lost City

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

You forget...what is the same regrinding that is FC...

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

but thats not boring repetition. Nope. *faceplant*

on 12+ different toons nevertheless.

Now that this frost issue is finally settled I'm surprised there aren't demands for compensation.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

One can farm r9rrr if one is wanting to be competitive. It takes effort. The same kind of effort that one puts forth to leveling from 1 to 100 they way it was before frost and the way it is now. The way it is now is still much easier because there are so many more ways to do it than there ws before frost. End game gear is in the cash shop and is available for anyone to get. Those who spend money get it faster than those who farm it. But I know a lot of people who farmed it and didn't spend any real world money on the game. They farmed and spent other people's real world money for it. I just got my r9 ring and I didn't spend any real world money on it nor will I. I farmed my herc, my nix and my monkey king.

People are going to need TT gears to make upgraded TT gears. Then people will upgrade those to NV. Then upgrade those. r9rrr is supposed to be end game. It's supposed to be what end game people put their effort into getting to stay competitive. No, I cannot compete with r9rrr +12 now but if I work at it eventually I will be able to. Isn't that part of the process in playing the game? Not if you have the entitlement mentality a lot of the frost QQers have because they lost their instant gratification or their way of capitalizing off those who want that instant gratification.

Wealth, gear, experience, skills are all accumulative. Accumulating it is what the game is about. It all takes effort and time.

Lets put it this way.

You played for 6 years, and you STILL cannot compete with r9rr +12. How can you expect someone who JUST started to reach a competitive level before this game shuts down for good?

First they must catch up to you. Considering it took you 6 years and you HAD Hypers, how long do you think it will take them? Then after that, they must catch up to the rest of the r9rr +12. But mind you, the rest of the r9rr +12s aren't just sitting there waiting to be caught up. They're also moving forward through the leveling of their S cards, making the gap even wider.

It's no longer about playing the game. It's no longer about making an effort. It's about hopelessness. Back then, there was hope for new players to reach end game. Every time they farmed and got something, they actually felt like they were progressing towards their end game goal. But as R9 got introduced, as R9rr got introduced, and as New Horizons got introduced, that feeling diminished. You used to be able to visibly countdown the number of mat pieces you needed. Nowadays you farm the mats, sell it in the auction, and maybe get back 2mil out of 1.5 billion. I remember when getting TT90 Green was big news. Today, people can care less if you just got r9.

The whole purpose of taking the time and effort to accumulate things is to actually end up somewhere. But what happens when people realize that after playing for a whole year, they still won't end up anywhere? It just isn't the same. Being able to FC to 100 quickly at least helped new players gain some hope.

My point is, Leveling is just a very small factor now. No one cares anymore whether you're level 100, or 100/100, or 100/100/100, "instant gratification" or not. It's all about the R9rr +12 josd and the S cards. And no matter how many Hypers you take away, you won't change that.

Progression is like walking down a long tunnel. People used to be able to see the light at the end from the first day they started playing. But with every expansion the tunnel gets longer, until the light is so far away that it is practically no longer there. Some people are persistent, and keep walking. But many more just give up right there and then.

Removing Hyper FC only makes the tunnel that much longer.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Gettiong to 101 should be your smallest issue on the way to r9rr. lol

Kemonomimi - Morai

ixmeepxi wrote: »

Well no FC, there goes new players and all the alts :P My poor veno will be forever 75.

My daily routine:
Do Dailies
Spam FC


New Daily Routine:
Do dailes
Log off

Your routine was boring and still is boring, soo nothing changed for you b:laugh

Eoria - Harshlands

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lets put it this way.

You played for 6 years, and you STILL cannot compete with r9rr +12. How can you expect someone who JUST started to reach a competitive level before this game shuts down for good?

First they must catch up to you. Considering it took you 6 years and you HAD Hypers, how long do you think it will take them? Then after that, they must catch up to the rest of the r9rr +12. But mind you, the rest of the r9rr +12s aren't just sitting there waiting to be caught up. They're also moving forward through the leveling of their S cards, making the gap even wider.

It's no longer about playing the game. It's no longer about making an effort. It's about hopelessness. Back then, there was hope for new players to reach end game. Every time they farmed and got something, they actually felt like they were progressing towards their end game goal. But as R9 got introduced, as R9rr got introduced, and as New Horizons got introduced, that feeling diminished. You used to be able to visibly countdown the number of mat pieces you needed. Nowadays you farm the mats, sell it in the auction, and maybe get back 2mil out of 1.5 billion. I remember when getting TT90 Green was big news. Today, people can care less if you just got r9.

The whole purpose of taking the time and effort to accumulate things is to actually end up somewhere. But what happens when people realize that after playing for a whole year, they still won't end up anywhere? It just isn't the same. Being able to FC to 100 quickly at least helped new players gain some hope.

My point is, Leveling is just a very small factor now. No one cares anymore whether you're level 100, or 100/100, or 100/100/100, "instant gratification" or not. It's all about the R9rr +12 josd and the S cards. And no matter how many Hypers you take away, you won't change that.

Progression is like walking down a long tunnel. People used to be able to see the light at the end from the first day they started playing. But with every expansion the tunnel gets longer, until the light is so far away that it is practically no longer there. Some people are persistent, and keep walking. But many more just give up right there and then.

Removing Hyper FC only makes the tunnel that much longer.

I wish there was a like function for posts. 'Cause this basically sums up all of my thoughts.

lbrandon

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

The community on all west coast and east coast and morai servers is not those 156 QQers who demand to camp an instance to level their chars.

The vast majority of votes ruled in favor of FCC, which a lot of us enjoy. I don't understand why you idiots with this huge ego think you're so much better because you quest to level, when in reality you're sitting in your boxers playing PWI the same as the rest of us. We just enjoy the game differently.

Jadsia - Lost City

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lets put it this way.

You played for 6 years, and you STILL cannot compete with r9rr +12. How can you expect someone who JUST started to reach a competitive level before this game shuts down for good?

I didn't even decide I wanted R9 until last week. Last year I was involved in another spirited discussion involving some QQer complaining that there was no way to make in game coin. During this thread i decided to prove my point by making a new character and set it up as a catshop. It started out with just the raps I made from NW tokens I got which was a pathetic 70ish. That was the seed product for my vending shop. In 5 weeks that catshop turned 70ish raps into 620+ million coin. If that wasn't good enough I traded all that coin for gold and blew it all on packs. I eventually made that catshop broke again and started all over. it took 6 weeks to make yet another 600+ million coin.

My point is I could have had r9rrr a long time ago if I wanted it. over those 6 years I estimated the mats and services I gave away for free was well over 3+ billion. This doesn't include the 800+ million for the 3 legendary pets I have. then the other 600 million for my current gear and refines.

I wasn't interested in r9rrr until last week because I am not a PvP player. I prefer PvE which 3rd cast NV +11 is more than enough for that.

It's not hard to farm r9. But I will say it wouldn't surprise me if the type of person who is happy to work for it that way is the type of person who would be more than happy to play the game without camping in frost to level.

First they must catch up to you. Considering it took you 6 years and you HAD Hypers, how long do you think it will take them? Then after that, they must catch up to the rest of the r9rr +12. But mind you, the rest of the r9rr +12s aren't just sitting there waiting to be caught up. They're also moving forward through the leveling of their S cards, making the gap even wider.

I leveled to 90 before hypers and frost were even in the game. If I could do that anyone could. It took me a week to get from 1 to 100 without hypers after I rebirth the 1st time. It took me 4 days to get from 1 to 94 the second rebirth without frost.

I'm not playing the game to catch up with anyone. I'm advancing at my own pace. There were people who started playing htis game before I started. I was always behind them because I came in later. This notion that one starts a new character and stresses because they are behind other players who already spent the time and effort into leveling and gearing their toons far longer than I have is stupid. It's like getting an entry level job at McDonalds and stressing out because s/he isn't the vice president of the corporation making $1 mil + a year after working there for just a few weeks.

There are always going to be someone above you and someone below you in this game. All that gear and **** with the S cards, etc. is accumulative. It requires cash or achievement. one way is fast and the other is slow. Either way provides the means to the same end.

It's no longer about playing the game. It's no longer about making an effort. It's about hopelessness. Back then, there was hope for new players to reach end game. Every time they farmed and got something, they actually felt like they were progressing towards their end game goal. But as R9 got introduced, as R9rr got introduced, and as New Horizons got introduced, that feeling diminished. You used to be able to visibly countdown the number of mat pieces you needed. Nowadays you farm the mats, sell it in the auction, and maybe get back 2mil out of 1.5 billion. I remember when getting TT90 Green was big news. Today, people can care less if you just got r9.

Hopelessness? Such is the attitude of someone with a severe case of entitlement syndrome. The only cure is desire + dedication + effort.

And watch. Now that players are going to advance through the game by engaging in level appropriate game play they are going to be required to do it with level appropriate gear. TT may once again be the thing to do for 6x+ characters. Not those 9x frost babies still wearing lvl 20 NPC **** with a bow to shoot heads. R9 is meaningless unless one is 101 anyway.

The whole purpose of taking the time and effort to accumulate things is to actually end up somewhere. But what happens when people realize that after playing for a whole year, they still won't end up anywhere? It just isn't the same. Being able to FC to 100 quickly at least helped new players gain some hope.

Then they really aren't playing the game if they spend a year and don't advance. Thinking frost is the only way to level is just plain ignorant and lazy. I have mentioned many times already that when frost was first hyper enabled it was the only way at the time to gain good exp. Can't remember if that was before or after BHs or even the genies but it was before the tideborn expansion. The tideborn expansion gave us quests at 5x with gave a lot of exp. Then hypers came and packs. Then morai, PV, primal world and all the other ways to get good exp.

I highly doubt if those who frost their way to 100 in a week have all their cultis and their skills that 100+ character should have at that level.

My point is, Leveling is just a very small factor now. No one cares anymore whether you're level 100, or 100/100, or 100/100/100, "instant gratification" or not. It's all about the R9rr +12 josd and the S cards. And no matter how many Hypers you take away, you won't change that.

And this is the exact sentiment which ruined a really nice game. The sentiment that one feels the need to bypass 99% of the game's content to be a decent player. This is contradictory to the spirit of this game or any other MMO out there.

Progression is like walking down a long tunnel. People used to be able to see the light at the end from the first day they started playing. But with every expansion the tunnel gets longer, until the light is so far away that it is practically no longer there. Some people are persistent, and keep walking. But many more just give up right there and then.

People who think like this have very low expectations to begin with. That's why they feel hopeless when faced with the fact that they need to put forth some effort to advance in whatever. It's pathetic to say the least.

Removing Hyper FC only makes the tunnel that much longer.

Removing hyper in FC will only make new players and the existing one who remain in the game to explore other ways to achieve the same goals they had before they removed hypers from frost. FC is just one freaking instance in a vast dynamic game. You people make it out to be a vast majority of the game. LOL