State of PWI - January 2014

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not terribly familiar with that depth of coding, but it sounds like what you're describing would require completely redoing the game engine (y'know, Angelica, the 10-year-old one), and probably the whole map with it. At that cost, they may as well make an entirely new game.

me neither. Im just digging up my memory lol.

as far as cost is concerned we know how good china is at making it low as possible f:bike

edit**
there we go
http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/20131009/71614.shtml

Crixxix - Raging Tide

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I believe there are certain people who were associated with it that couldn't keep up with the project, for various reasons. That's all I know. And of course v4liance's departure didn't help any.

While it would be great to reboot that project and I'd be all for it, the problem is not so much communication with the CM (because let's be honest, only the CM is really supposed to be our representative per his job description). The problem is that even if the CM supports what we want to do, s/he has to play telephone with wanmei, and the likelihood of anything substantial being fixed at that point is next to none. Issues like power creep / gear disparity and Frost powerleveling have been given CM attention in the past, but nothing ever came of it. Ultimately, the problem is that no one on our side of the pond makes the decisions... it all comes from the wanmei devs, who get their instructions from the top brass in Beijing. What we need is a clearer, more consistent line of communication with that top brass... but after five years around here I've never seen it happen.

If this is true, then perhaps we should get a group together to compile all of this information, and find a way to open a line to the "top brass"? What power does PWE have to do things by themselves, without Wanmei's permission? I'd think there's got to be something we can do to help support the game.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

werent the original devs who came back also talking about a new graphics engine for pwi

if so that would shine light on some lag issues

I heard nothing about this, I'll read your linked Wanmei site later. Going to be podcasting here in a few.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

If this is true, then perhaps we should get a group together to compile all of this information, and find a way to open a line to the "top brass"? What power does PWE have to do things by themselves, without Wanmei's permission? I'd think there's got to be something we can do to help support the game.

PWE has very limited abilities to affect the PWI client (whether by simple lack of access to the uncompiled code or lack of authorization to make changes to it, I couldn't tell you). Mainly all they can do is (a) update the cash shop, (b) correct text and localization errors, and (c) turn on and off certain flags such as 2x. Anything else is limited to on-the-fly GM abilities (I once saw a GM manage to cause the reappearance of an event NPC). And most of those abilities are server-side, not client-side. You'll see client patches that exclusively mention text/localization changes and fixes, when so much else could conceivably need fixing. The reason is that they haven't gotten a client from wanmei yet that fixes the real issues.

If you take a look around these forums and wonder why everyone's so cynical... there's a reason. It's because many people have tried to "help support the game," pushing for game balancing initiatives, and for the most part these changes have appeared to fall on deaf ears. In the past, this used to be even worse because the PWE staff didn't seem to want to acknowledge their dependency on wanmei. Nowadays we have people like DefenderofDreams who openly admit that certain issues need to be investigated with the devs before any fix can be promised. So, y'know, honestly. Step in the right direction.

But as far as communication goes... reviving the GA program is probably the first step, because we need people to streamline player concerns to the CM (and, let's face it, challenge the CM so that they can in turn challenge wanmei as much as possible). Unfortunately there's going to be an upper limit on that... because the sad fact is that wanmei is not beholden to our CM, and even if the CM is sympathetic with us on a major rebalancing concern (Frost powerleveling being a recent example), there's nothing stopping wanmei from blowing them off.

Somewhere on that trek across the pond, the urgency of our requests either fails to be noted, or is outright ignored. And since we don't know much about wanmei staff (for example, who the liason(s) are that our CM communicates with), we can't even guess at what's holding up those requests. So that's why we all feel like there's a brick wall between us and the devs.

And that's assuming you can even get the PWI community to agree on much (which has repeatedly proven to be about as successful as herding cats). One thing's for sure: if the GA program is ever revived, its members will have their work cut out for them.

heerohex#3018

Yes I remember their being talk about a new Engine However I have not seen anything since last year.

A lot of PWIs Limitations are because of the Game Engine. For a Start the Lag and the Rubber banding where a issue. Not to say the way the quests where designed as well. After all this is not the First Version of PW anyway. This is PW 2.0 the first one to my info is lost to the archives.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

heero200 wrote: »

Yes I remember their being talk about a new Engine However I have not seen anything since last year.

A lot of PWIs Limitations are because of the Game Engine. For a Start the Lag and the Rubber banding where a issue. Not to say the way the quests where designed as well. After all this is not the First Version of PW anyway. This is PW 2.0 the first one to my info is lost to the archives.

they only announced such thoughts the end of 2013 so i doubt it would come that fast, at the least it would be a years wait

Crixxix - Raging Tide

So then theoretically, nothing is stopping PWE from saying, "okay we want these people to be game advisors", just that they wouldn't be able to give us any power within the game itself. They could even make any one of us a GM, if they so chose, I would assume.

As far as not knowing about who these liaisons and whatnot over in China are, I would think it would be possible to find out, assuming you can read Chinese or Google Translate would work half way decent.

I'm a persistent person, so I'll do some digging to see what I can find out, but things are gonna change, play time's over.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

well, they do have a career site here
http://www.pwe-inc.com/career

GMs are one of the paid jobs. Keep in mind tho their juggling 15 diff. games atm o.o and prolly more later on

Elemental_w - Heavens Tear

Perfect World is near to being done for; regardless of the rumors going around and their constant "updates" due to the return of Archosaur Studio's. Read this and maybe you'll be a 'bit' enlightened!b:victory

Once upon a time; In a distant land which was Perfect World International there was the primary development team, Archosaur Studio's. Around the time they finished their newest expansion, Rising Tides, PWE wasn't getting much profit from their flagship game. The marketing team said 'Hey! Lets add this amazing invention called 'Packs!' that'll basically be gambling! We'll make tons of money from this!"

Archosaur studio's was like "Heck no. That'll just make everything cash shop-superiority and plus, our economy is going dead because of the decrease of players." - since PWE stopped advertising PWI online, they stopped getting new players.

Eventually Archosaur studio's dipped out because they thought it was all bs in the direction that the game was going.

Ever since this. The game has been a complete PW-CN mirror, with no development inside of the game by PWI's own team.

---

Mk, now lets cut to the chase. PWI is no longer being developed on the scale that it once was. If anyone here played the game when it was released you would obviously see a huge difference in what it used to be, and what it is now. The development that's happening now is being limited and catered to 'high end players' aka. Cash shoppers.
The newest system doesn't benefit the average player other than a small to medium increase in stats; whilst a Rank 9 player would be hugely affected on the battlefield.

A lot of people wonder why there's such an emphasis on PvP now other than PvE, and that is because the game has to go in that direction. With such little developments in the game for the PvE player, the best option for profits as well as overall growth would be PvP. People will charge money to be better, Nation wars was made to encourage PvP due to the lack of TW on many servers since open world PvP is next to non existent on PvE servers as well.

Their doing this trying to be sneaky and saying that they are catering "both parties" which is utter bull. Anyone who used to play the game when actually exploring the map; doing FB's, BH's and all of this actually meant something would know this better than the pure PvP based players.

As for the Arc system? Oh please, a steam for PWE? Yeah right. PWE can barely keep 5 games at one time operational with sub-par populations. If anything they're trying to keep the engine looking more flashy and better designed so the average user can use it. They did copy-paste many features from the steam app into the Arc, which is a given. They are most likely going to develop the app into an engine similar to "Raptr".

On the bottom line, this game is going to be relatively the same. Nothing will improve; little things may get better, however there will not be any big leaps in the future until they decide to advertise for their game. From what I see right now, they're just making money off of PWI with small updates, new systems, and sales to sustain their money needs. If things start to go sour I believe that the servers will continue to be merged until eventually we're the equivalent of Pan Gea where we're all one server. This can be seen with 'Morai' being a merge between two.

I'm glad with the return of Archosaur Studio's which actually made this game great and not completely obsessed with money, however unless the whole entire system has a whole overhaul: Such as active GM's in game, events, and much more, this game will be lacking to all other MMO's greatly & the numbers will continue to drop.b:surrender

Crixxix - Raging Tide

Why is it so far-fetched that they could do a complete overhaul? And you mention advertising, did you ever stop to think that the best form of advertising is, and always will be word of mouth? Get your friends into the game, make some youtube videos and promote the game. I plan on doing this in the coming weeks myself.

heerohex#3018

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

So then theoretically, nothing is stopping PWE from saying, "okay we want these people to be game advisors", just that they wouldn't be able to give us any power within the game itself. They could even make any one of us a GM, if they so chose, I would assume.

As far as not knowing about who these liaisons and whatnot over in China are, I would think it would be possible to find out, assuming you can read Chinese or Google Translate would work half way decent.

I'm a persistent person, so I'll do some digging to see what I can find out, but things are gonna change, play time's over.

Well i brought the Idea back up when i started to do the Suggestions. The idea Died with Val. I have Spoke to DoD about this but as your all aware his workload is more than the time he has not to say with covering as our CM.

They can make anyone a GM yes. However with the GA program we wanted a GA Logo rather than a GM one. This would have to be coded and im guessing the only people that could do this where the Original Devs. The whole point of this is so people know they are not a GM and cant do everything a GM could. I still think to this day it would make the game Stronger. Something a CM would be dealing with.

If people still want this ill keep trying but I can only try!

Azura - Lost City

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Why is it so far-fetched that they could do a complete overhaul? And you mention advertising, did you ever stop to think that the best form of advertising is, and always will be word of mouth? Get your friends into the game, make some youtube videos and promote the game. I plan on doing this in the coming weeks myself.

Honestly, I think most ppl nowdays just play this game because they have been here for like 2-3 years, or even more, and they met many people along the way.

However if you think for a second, what does this game have to offer to the new players? Nothing new, and people are looking for new stuff, or something cool.

If someone wasn't playing PW, I wouldn't recommend him/her this game, because I know all the work you need to do in this game to be competitive, and how hard the game later on pressures you to use real life money.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Elemental_w - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Perfect World is nearblaahhh snip
Ever since this. The game has been a complete PW-CN mirror, with no development inside of the game by PWI's own team.

---

Mk, now lets cut to the chase.
snip
to drop.b:surrender

arc isnt finished yet. ;o
business is diff. in pwi here as opposed to there in china. But the game itself has a big media placement in china so its no where near 'out', its just PW usa has other games to shine their light on too.

pple betch too much and wonder why theres no new blood for any reason lol a good portion of it is because the current players dont realize they are warding them away. b:surrender then their like herp derp the game is dead derp

dont like it, fine, but dont ruin it for the rest of us. Those sort of pple are like the glitches in the game, except its in the player population

Crixxix - Raging Tide

heero200 wrote: »

Well i brought the Idea back up when i started to do the Suggestions. The idea Died with Val. I have Spoke to DoD about this but as your all aware his workload is more than the time he has not to say with covering as our CM.

They can make anyone a GM yes. However with the GA program we wanted a GA Logo rather than a GM one. This would have to be coded and im guessing the only people that could do this where the Original Devs. The whole point of this is so people know they are not a GM and cant do everything a GM could. I still think to this day it would make the game Stronger. Something a CM would be dealing with.

If people still want this ill keep trying but I can only try!

I say keep trying! I'd be their CM if I lived on the west coast, even though I see no reason why this can't be a remote job. It would definitely let the job be filled easier, and it is most definitely doable. I agree that the GMs need some breathing room, so getting a dedicated CM should be a priority for them.

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly, I think most ppl nowdays just play this game because they have been here for like 2-3 years, or even more, and they met many people along the way.

However if you think for a second, what does this game have to offer to the new players? Nothing new, and people are looking for new stuff, or something cool.

If someone wasn't playing PW, I wouldn't recommend him/her this game, because I know all the work you need to do in this game to be competitive, and how hard the game later on pressures you to use real life money.

This game has more to offer than some of the subscription based games that I've seen.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

arc isnt finished yet. ;o
business is diff. in pwi here as opposed to there in china. But the game itself has a big media placement in china so its no where near 'out', its just PW usa has other games to shine their light on too.

pple betch too much and wonder why theres no new blood for any reason lol a good portion of it is because the current players dont realize they are warding them away. b:surrender then their like herp derp the game is dead derp

dont like it, fine, but dont ruin it for the rest of us. Those sort of pple are like the glitches in the game, except its in the player population

I agree with this. A lot of the problem is the player base when it comes to lack of new players. On the flip side, the new starting area could be a little more refined, such as removing the embrace requirement. However, that's way less damaging than the player base. You almost need therapy after dealing with certain players here. b:laugh

Elemental_w - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

arc isnt finished yet. ;o
business is diff. in pwi here as opposed to there in china. But the game itself has a big media placement in china so its no where near 'out', its just PW usa has other games to shine their light on too.

In China, PW is one of the top MMO's there. Where the majority of players are so active they're all max-geared out and that's why they need to keep on making a "better" version of gear, as incentive for people to play. Lol.

PWE here in the USA is just basically a sponser; technically making PWI a private server for PW-CN. Instead of focusing on PWI, their most popular game- PWE would rather sponsor horrible projects (aka. most the games they sponsor) and waste their funds on that than support their flagship. Did ya'll know that only about 30% of their profits are going towards PWI? which is sad imo.b:shocked

Crixxix - Raging Tide

Elemental_w - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In China, PW is one of the top MMO's there. Where the majority of players are so active they're all max-geared out and that's why they need to keep on making a "better" version of gear, as incentive for people to play. Lol.

PWE here in the USA is just basically a sponser; technically making PWI a private server for PW-CN. Instead of focusing on PWI, their most popular game- PWE would rather sponsor horrible projects (aka. most the games they sponsor) and waste their funds on that than support their flagship. Did ya'll know that only about 30% of their profits are going towards PWI? which is sad imo.b:shocked

If this is all true, then I would agree. Do you have any proof showing that 30% of profits are going towards PWI?

We also have a CM now xD

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Elemental_w - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In China, PW is one of the top MMO's there. Where the majority of players are so active they're all max-geared out and that's why they need to keep on making a "better" version of gear, as incentive for people to play. Lol.

PWE here in the USA is just basically a sponser; technically making PWI a private server for PW-CN. Instead of focusing on PWI, their most popular game- PWE would rather sponsor horrible projects (aka. most the games they sponsor) and waste their funds on that than support their flagship. Did ya'll know that only about 30% of their profits are going towards PWI? which is sad imo.b:shocked

not sure how true the 30% is but lets pretend its near that.
If so then thats a pretty hefty amount, considering all the other games they sponsor.
You dont know if a game will be a flop or not, the players dont, nor the developers. (who would have thought D*TA would be all popular with those kiddy graphics?) Just cause its doing sub par doesnt mean they can trash it immediately. Similar to how it takes time for any game to merge empty servers.
The gaming society and economy are completely diff. from china and usa. Because china is doing good does not mean usa can follow their lead and just focus on a single or two games. PWE as a company cant take such a risk, especially when the game variety and turn over here is pretty fast unlike the communism limited net space there.

Rjwashere - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

arc isnt finished yet. ;o

arc is useless

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Rjwashere - Dreamweaver wrote: »

arc is useless

yo face is useless! f:sneaky

Rjwashere - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

yo face is useless! f:sneaky

Come At Me Brob:bye

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Rjwashere - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Come At Me Brob:bye

someone cant seem to take a joke >.>

Crixxix - Raging Tide

This is NOT to become a troll, flaming/shame, harassment thread.

Rjwashere - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

someone cant seem to take a joke >.>

Whoa calm down man o.o

Eoria - Harshlands

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly, I think most ppl nowdays just play this game because they have been here for like 2-3 years, or even more, and they met many people along the way.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Rjwashere - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Whoa calm down man o.o

b:angry

impossibru...

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

As far as not knowing about who these liaisons and whatnot over in China are, I would think it would be possible to find out, assuming you can read Chinese or Google Translate would work half way decent.

I'm a persistent person, so I'll do some digging to see what I can find out, but things are gonna change, play time's over.

I don't mean to discourage you, but you aren't the first optimistic "reformer" to grace the forums. I would think if it were possible to contact the dev team directly, someone would've found a way after five years.

As far as GMs/CMs goes... as has been stated, both are paid positions and you would apply for them like any other job. And as anyone who's been around long enough will tell you, our CMs have been very different from each other. Some were great, some... we try not to talk about. But one thing that always remains the same is the brick wall they all have to face at wanmei.

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Why is it so far-fetched that they could do a complete overhaul?

Because what counts as a "complete overhaul?" You couldn't even get this forum community to agree on that, I guarantee you. I mean sure, I have my own laundry list of changes I would make to restore the game's stability. And some others would have different lists. Who can say, without any arrogance, that their list is the right one? That's the mentality that leads to private servers.

Elemental_w - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Once upon a time; In a distant land which was Perfect World International there was the primary development team, Archosaur Studio's. Around the time they finished their newest expansion, Rising Tides, PWE wasn't getting much profit from their flagship game. The marketing team said 'Hey! Lets add this amazing invention called 'Packs!' that'll basically be gambling! We'll make tons of money from this!"

Archosaur studio's was like "Heck no. That'll just make everything cash shop-superiority and plus, our economy is going dead because of the decrease of players." - since PWE stopped advertising PWI online, they stopped getting new players.

Eventually Archosaur studio's dipped out because they thought it was all bs in the direction that the game was going.

Ever since this. The game has been a complete PW-CN mirror, with no development inside of the game by PWI's own team.

It was before that. Archosaur Studios left the project before PWI ever launched. And their exit wasn't an over-romanticized "eff you." Wanmei bought the unfinished game from them. Let's keep our facts straight, here.

Also: if you really believe that PWI is an exact "mirror" of PW-CN, then you need to stop drinking the kool-aid. The use of hypers and the prevalence of R9 in all forms are two things you will never find on PW-CN. Granted, it would be nice if certain former staff members (*coughfrankierayecough*) hadn't perpetuated that over-simplified explanation as an excuse for not actually doing any work on our behalf.

heero200 wrote:

Well i brought the Idea back up when i started to do the Suggestions. The idea Died with Val. I have Spoke to DoD about this but as your all aware his workload is more than the time he has not to say with covering as our CM.

They can make anyone a GM yes. However with the GA program we wanted a GA Logo rather than a GM one. This would have to be coded and im guessing the only people that could do this where the Original Devs. The whole point of this is so people know they are not a GM and cant do everything a GM could. I still think to this day it would make the game Stronger. Something a CM would be dealing with.

If people still want this ill keep trying but I can only try!

I can't say I know you, but if you were involved with this project, then yeah, you should revive it and I'd be willing to help. But as of yet... DoD has been less than perfect at answering PMs lately.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I can't say I know you, but if you were involved with this project, then yeah, you should revive it and I'd be willing to help. But as of yet... DoD has been less than perfect at answering PMs lately.

DoD is no longer our interim CM. Try PMing our newbie CM, sparkiesoft.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly, I think most ppl nowdays just play this game because they have been here for like 2-3 years, or even more, and they met many people along the way.

My case.

In addition: busy real life which makes me not want to start a new MMO with the potential of getting hooked on it. If I get bored of PWI, I just play some of my Nintendo/Playstation games instead which I can play at my pace. Even if you're not totally serious in an MMO, there's still the pressure of "catching up", if not on gears then on new additions (may or may not apply to everyone).

I try to appreciate whatever this game has left to offer me.

Arsla - Dreamweaver

what the game lacks is the fact that PWI is a slave to CN cannot Do anything By themselves or modify or correct any files without CN consent.

this itself makes the game boring and PWI also does nothing to drive new players to stay in the game i asked a Relative of mine to play he said

" i liked the beginning area where they gave us a mount to fly etc looked good only to see it all taken away and i had to start from ground zero... and the worst thing about the game is Spamming quest. i found my entire quest list spammed with ridiculous not interesting in any way quests that just put me off ."

and i too completely agree with him i tried a new character and the questing is lame ...

when you ask other players all they say is pay me 1 mill il take you to FC -.-.

take the tide born quest chain for example,,,,, make all quests like that and new players or even old players might find a drive to play.

PWI just adds new stuff and dosent change the old .... and that is one reason the game is dying.

Crixxix - Raging Tide

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

DoD is no longer our interim CM. Try PMing our newbie CM, sparkiesoft.

You've been ninja'd.


You guys make some good points, in that old content also needs updating, etc, but this does take a massive amount of time and effort. Archosaur Studios has been back, what? A month? Give it some time. This last update has been the best update that I've seen in a long while.

I also agree that the chokehold that PWCN has on us is crippling, something that I wish there was a way to change. If only I won the lottery, I'd free us all. b:laugh

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

You guys make some good points, in that old content also needs updating, etc, but this does take a massive amount of time and effort. Archosaur Studios has been back, what? A month? Give it some time. This last update has been the best update that I've seen in a long while.

See, you have to be careful about stuff like this. New content has to be approached very carefully so that it doesn't mangle the content that we started with. Several things about New Horizons were good, but several things weren't as well. They replaced several lowgame quest gear rewards with items far beyond what's required for the lowgame... Lv1 armor that's comparable to armor for a Lv30 character, for instance. And they removed a number of lowgame mold items, which had no reason to be removed and didn't cause any game balance issues at all.

This is why I say be careful of talking about "overhauls." Every time this game has gotten an "overhaul" of any kind, it's always of the "bigger and tougher" variety. They "overhauled" TT3-x, Aba and SoT BHs, and Warsong City in part because they'd already created gears which made every PVE activity trivial. So then the "overhauls" happened, which only caused people to adopt more and more ridiculous gear "standards" to match them. This is disastrous in the long term. Look up Power Creep sometime.

You can't be afraid to remove something once in awhile that presents a clear and present threat to game balance. PWI's devs have repeatedly proven that they're terrified of removing anything major lest people whine about it, so all they do is throw new content at us and hope for the best. But new content is not the answer anymore.



I just saw the thread about the new CM, though. Good news, for sure. Hope he knows what he's in for.