Why does everyone hate hybrid builds?
Comments
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_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Please, name 1 thing you can do that a comparable sin or bm can't do in PvE. You can't.
I can solo 6 PV runs with ease.
I can solo TM 69 and 79. (useless now ok...)
I can flesh ream and invoke to tank bosses that go frenzy/aps or whatever.
TT soloing im not sure about yet. I was annoyed that with 16k HP i couldnt solo emperor. But then i asked a bunch of sins and they couldnt either. Even though they were the sins that tank mobless FW. Many said even 2-3 offers difficulties while i can solo that comfortably.
None is better, all have their strengths and weaknesses. Each of them have a crucial buff that the others need. (nope dont think only BP is crucial) Sin does 20% more dps but is squichy as hell. BMs have HF. Barbs can do the things i mentioned above.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
can't say that i am against hybrid build i'm just not entirely sure of the sense in it. All classes have strengths and weaknesses, if you want to be a dd then why would you chose a cleric? chose a DD, if you want to be aps be aps with and aps class. If you don't want to tank don't chose barb. just seems an *** about face way of doing things.0
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hybrid kitty best...
pure tank? cant kill a thing in 999 years
pure dd ? lack of def
hybrid ? fits every where
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Mind you, i'm maining a sin with a pure focus on PvE, pretty much maximizing every trick available to do what I do, knowing what my limits are and where I can push things.WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »I can solo 6 PV runs with ease.
That's easy, any class can
I can solo TM 69 and 79. (useless now ok...)
I started doing 69 that on my sin with a base hp of around 9k, 79 I never got to try
I can flesh ream and invoke to tank bosses that go frenzy/aps or whatever.
Ok, flesh ream is a skill only available to barbs, so is... raging slap? i forgot the name of the other aggro skill, a boss barely gets the chance to frenzy or APS, and even if it does, nothing APO or a genie can't fix
TT soloing im not sure about yet. I was annoyed that with 16k HP i couldnt solo emperor. But then i asked a bunch of sins and they couldnt either. Even though they were the sins that tank mobless FW. Many said even 2-3 offers difficulties while i can solo that comfortably.
...16k HP sins that can't solo emperor? Really? what kind of sins play on archosaur f:sweat, 2-3 is also easy as cake
None is better, all have their strengths and weaknesses. Both Barb and BM have my preference though for their versatility.
Price I pay is that I utterly and completely suck at PvP.
Defense wise I won't say barbs have the upperhand, they do, but in PvE it's nearly completely (if not completely) negligible.
Only thing I can think of from the top of my head that would give a lot of people problems in PvE is faction trial bosses, those are a decent challenge.
At least at the trials that give gold reward, the very last boss is nice to do.Soon™
Well, maybe later, semi-retired.0 -
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Biased test is biased.
So the sin gets to Wolf Emblem and Power Dash whilst the barb doesn't Devour nor BO.
Howaboutno?0 -
It's not my video... but Devour/BO won't make up for the damage difference nor the crits let alone both. Keep in mind that this comparison is also somewhat biased to the barb actually since a fairer comparison would give the sin R93 to make for a more even gear base. Let's put it this way: For me, Yan is 1 spark.0
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Trance - Morai wrote: »can't say that i am against hybrid build i'm just not entirely sure of the sense in it. All classes have strengths and weaknesses, if you want to be a dd then why would you chose a cleric? chose a DD, if you want to be aps be aps with and aps class. If you don't want to tank don't chose barb. just seems an *** about face way of doing things.
b:laugh this is a good point i guess, i cant speak for why everyone goes for these builds as i do not know their reasoning but as for my reasons. When i hit 100 i was a lowly refined tt90/99 barb and now that i had reached 100 i wanted to make another character, i chose a sin. Slowly i was getting more tank gears for my barb, slowly due to the fact that its rare to get help on rt for me, people like getting help from barbs but never as keen to give it back. my sin was making progress fairly quickly as they do and then i got demon spark and the amount of stuff that just ended up dying at my feet compared to me dying at their feet on barb was amazing. My alt, my little thing to do when bored, was out preforming my barb that i actually liked playing alot. Oh at i should also point out im a sage vit build at this point because thats what i was told i should be, apparently demon barbs were rubbish.
This went on for a while, if my barb would get stuck on a boss id just bring my sin and kill it but then i thought, why cant i just do this on my barb? i had heard rumours of aps barbs who could kill everything, but were only used in nirvana. I had a dig around and i found a few things on aps barb, this is actually the most important bit, i did my own research on both demon and sage barb, the skills, the benefits, the drawbacks and even made a few pwcalc builds. i had found one.
I had picked out all my gears, worked out what i needed and separated it from what i only wanted. A few months later im a near full t3 barb with a 2.86 base, considering changing to demon, before i restat i had 20k hp, well in t3 i now have 20k hp and can tank everything with more ease as i did before, i have enough aps to solo everything that i need and can go with squads and tank for the rest. The thing that made it for me though, what i spend most my time doing, is helping others. for a change it nice to be able to help people without saying "i can help, if you have a cleric"
So in a way i did it to be able to help more people, i did it to help my friends, my faction and me. but i guess the biggest reason i made it, i was rarely helped by RT. b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Changing to demon will be the best thing you ever did. Even if you would not be APS.
Demon sunder (to be followed by armageddon) so outclasses ever other consideration it aint funny.
Dunno about the changing process though. Since pleveling is so easy, i quickly decided to just build a new barb. So now i have a sage barb gathering dust while i play the demon one
Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »Changing to demon will be the best thing you ever did. Even if you would not be APS.
Demon sunder (to be followed by armageddon) so outclasses ever other consideration it aint funny.
Dunno about the changing process though. Since pleveling is so easy, i quickly decided to just build a new barb. So now i have a sage barb gathering dust while i play the demon one
still working on the conversion, im still on the culti to hit celestial sage, hopefully its not to taxing and i can get it over with soon[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Biased test is biased.
So the sin gets to Wolf Emblem and Power Dash whilst the barb doesn't Devour nor BO.
Howaboutno?
GL with switching to true form back and forth to Devour, while a sin can zerk crit with said above, plus the fact that sins basically only need to dump theirs stats on Dex and have it over 400+, and said stat increases their crit rate, accuracy and also their physical damage, while barbs will have to split between Str and Dex. b:bye0 -
The only time I was about to get mad argueing about builds with someone was long ago, well few years.. She was archer and was advising for magic build to wear the legendary Lv77 arcane wristguards for the -6% channelling. She was wearing channelling rings too, warsoul of heaven etc, to maximize her barrages damage... higher channelling = barrage does more often damage. She would have ~18%ish channelling and she could feel big the difference in damage, even so good it was worth getting more channelling...
.... f:stare0 -
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im a vit cleric
not not a big hybrid but ppl think im fail because I have a higher survivability rate
before reincarnating I had 109 base vit.
lvl 100 rb cleric I had 120 vit.
RA cleric is lvl 67 and she has 132 vit with just about 10k base hp
at lvl 70 ill have 10k hp. and at lvl 100 ill probably have 500 hp less then a panda form barb. and I get **** said about me as well
I ignore it. im a good cleric, I do my job well, my heals are better then LA cleric, but not as good as a pure mag cleric, that's why I have sage ironheart and wellspring0 -
In the absence of Walpurga I shall say this much:
Answers like that make me cringe.
DAT 0.1s it takes to switch weapons to Penetrate Armor.
Maybe it is good that most people hate APS barbs. Keeps the less capable at bay.
Meanwhile the sin on your squad can take advantage of your Penetrate Armor or whatever, plus the fact they have Dagger Mastery to further increase their damage output. b:pleased
APS barbs might deal more damage per hit than barbs using axes, but no way in hell can an APS barb deal more damage per hit than a sin.0 -
I'm a ha mystic stage 3 and I do just fine and heal proper and stay alive
And I love my 27k physical def buffed
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Rosie_Caster - Harshlands wrote: »im a vit cleric
not not a big hybrid but ppl think im fail because I have a higher survivability rate
before reincarnating I had 109 base vit.
lvl 100 rb cleric I had 120 vit.
RA cleric is lvl 67 and she has 132 vit with just about 10k base hp
at lvl 70 ill have 10k hp. and at lvl 100 ill probably have 500 hp less then a panda form barb. and I get **** said about me as well
I ignore it. im a good cleric, I do my job well, my heals are better then LA cleric, but not as good as a pure mag cleric, that's why I have sage ironheart and wellspring
Still dunno why anyone rages at vit clerics.
200 base vit all day here. b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I
Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
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Some people hate sins and some hate cashshoppers......... b:avoid0
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Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »Some people hate sins and some hate cashshoppers......... b:avoid
And some hate both.[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy0 -
As you may have found out from this thread... your word usage of 'everyone' is far too strong. b:avoid
Anyways.
I think a great deal of what I could say on the original topic has already been covered, but still it is true that many ppl shy away from hybrid build people due to a lack of understanding/belief that everyone who has a different/unique build is fail/their gear is completely rubbish.
Sadly though the truth of the matter is that "most" people with the weird builds, also kind of rather suck at their 'class' to begin with/don't know when its best to aps, or simply to try and tank the right way/keep aggro as much as possible. It can be real hard to judge with 100% accuracy when other people in your squad can actually tank, as in keep aggro, and not die repeatedly.
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That being said... the bit about an aps barb not holding aggro over a sin isn't entirely true... sure it is true if they are in/around the same gear... err weapon refines, but yea... if the barb is smart enough he can get aggro and keep it if the sin is weakish... but yea 9 times out of 10 that isn't the case. Still there are things an aps barb could do to get quick aggro if someone is about to die, after they stole aggro from him for being in aps stand up form. Still a lot of barbs do struggle to know when to tank in tiger form/when others can actually handle aggro. (The latter of which is nigh impossible to 'guess' correctly 100% of the time. Not to mention even when you ask and you have someone say 'yea I can tank' there is still plenty that could go wrong.)Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »As you may have found out from this thread... your word usage of 'everyone' is far too strong. b:avoid
Ill be honest, considering the responses i get from in the game i didnt expect such a positive reaction from the forums, especially for the HA casters. Its nice to see not everyone is as judgemental about hybrid builds as most people i encounter on RT.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I don't hate other people if they have a hybrid build, they are free to spend money anyway they see fit. I remember one of the best barbs I ever had in a squad was a mag based barb, but that was back before DW was server and before genies came out.0
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The part that's really off is where certain individuals are trying to compare an APS barb's damage output to that of a sins. As someone that used to main a barb, and made a new one to be aps, that is not the point of an aps barb. An aps barb bring a lot to the table that sins can not.
-Lv11 HP buff
-Lv11 Strength of Titans
-The ability to have similar HP and defenses to that of a vit barb, by having 2 sets of gear
-LV11 Devour
-Frighten (bread and butter skill on melee mob pulls)
-Roar
-AND the ability to add the same DPS as a BM
The piont isn't to try to be a bm or sin. APS barbs are their own thing and should be treated as such, even if there are bad ones. Baddies are everywhere, not just sins, not just aps barbs, or HA casters; everywhere.0 -
That^WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »Did anyone claim that ?
Sins in equal equip do 20% more dmg than APS barb. R9 APS barb should get a little closer with the 100str bonus.
@eraldus
That's what debuffs are for.
I was just pointing out that the video didn't show the correct approach of an APS barb.
~*~
To give us some closure
This is the best that an APS barb can do 336k damage within 10 attacks.
Whilst here is an equally geared sin 391k damage within 10 attacks.
(Yes, the necklace on the sin might look riddiculous but I had to keep it at 3.33 base)
(R9RR and T3 stats used at max in both builds. Didn't use the OP NW gear.)
(No skill effects appart from buffs taken under consideration)
(Attack levels already calculated into the damage. Damage unsparked.)
With Power Dash the sin would go almost-all-crit (90%) for it's duration + effects of Wolf Emblem (240% crit damage).
With Demon Bestial Onslaught the barb would have 60% crit rate. Bloodrush would PROBABLY add about 45k for it's duration. Poison Fang already calculated in.
Said sin would outDD the barb... but then we look at HP/defences/def levels.
What's left to argue about is whether you like to stealth and shadowjump or invoke and arma - personal preferences.
If I made any mistakes - feel free to point them out.0 -
Um.. you forgot tidal protection.0
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That^
@eraldus
That's what debuffs are for.
I was just pointing out that the video didn't show the correct approach of an APS barb.
~*~
To give us some closure
This is the best that an APS barb can do 336k damage within 10 attacks.
Whilst here is an equally geared sin 391k damage within 10 attacks.
(Yes, the necklace on the sin might look riddiculous but I had to keep it at 3.33 base)
(R9RR and T3 stats used at max in both builds. Didn't use the OP NW gear.)
(No skill effects appart from buffs taken under consideration)
(Attack levels already calculated into the damage. Damage unsparked.)
With Power Dash the sin would go almost-all-crit (90%) for it's duration + effects of Wolf Emblem (240% crit damage).
With Demon Bestial Onslaught the barb would have 60% crit rate. Bloodrush would PROBABLY add about 45k for it's duration. Poison Fang already calculated in.
Said sin would outDD the barb... but then we look at HP/defences/def levels.
What's left to argue about is whether you like to stealth and shadowjump or invoke and arma - personal preferences.
If I made any mistakes - feel free to point them out.
One big mistake, you can't use the best aps gear for barb into sin
R8r is the currently the best aps gear for sin, and it's much easier to get double int on the sin r8r chest than getting triple int on g16 dagger. With a total of int x3 on the sin r8r chest, boot, and legging, sin can has 5 aps with zerk.0 -
Yuuniee - Dreamweaver wrote: »One big mistake, you can't use the best aps gear for barb into sin
R8r is the currently the best aps gear for sin, and it's much easier to get double int on the sin r8r chest than getting triple int on g16 dagger.(Agreed) With a total of int x3 on the sin r8r chest, boot, and legging(r8r leggings? Can't have -int there), sin can has 5 aps with zerk.(No, with total of 3x -0.05 you are at 2.5 unsparked with Adversities)Yuuniee - Dreamweaver wrote: »With a total of int x3 on the sin r8r chest, boot, and legging, sin can has 5 aps with zerk.
Or if I misunderstood that part and you mean 3x on one piece of gear then the chances of crafting that are 1.72% ^3 (chest) vs 5%^3 (T3 Daggers)
Even if we were to split that to make 2x on the chest (which is more probable than T3 daggers) then we still would have to have 2x on the boots which is riddiculously low (0.15%^2). With such setting you are still better off asking Lady Fortuna for 3x daggers.
The last possibility is that you ment 2x int T2 zerk dagger but I believe that the topic of 40 atk lvls vs zerk has already been solved with attack levels being the chosen add for PvE.
Again. Please point out if I am mistaken.0 -
Or if I misunderstood that part and you mean 3x on one piece of gear then the chances of crafting that are 1.72% ^3 (chest) vs 5%^3 (T3 Daggers)
Even if we were to split that to make 2x on the chest (which is more probable than T3 daggers) then we still would have to have 2x on the boots which is riddiculously low (0.15%^2). With such setting you are still better off asking Lady Fortuna for 3x daggers.
The last possibility is that you ment 2x int T2 zerk dagger but I believe that the topic of 40 atk lvls vs zerk has already been solved with attack levels being the chosen add for PvE.
Again. Please point out if I am mistaken.
r8r chest with double 0.05 makes same amount of int as normal r8 chest
r8r boots with a single 0.05 makes up for the drop of TT99 int bonus
r8r legs makes you loose 0.05 int when dropping the g15 pants. Due to 0.1 int bonus from having 3 pieces of r8r you will gain a total 0.05 int.youtube.com/user/Cebloon
~ not that there is that much to see (yet?)0
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