New DQ System Suggestion Thread

bluestuffzzz

orangeladey wrote: »

For clarities sake -- what does everyone consider a DQ system?


Cause even though we had the dragon points gimmick, I still consider the actual Dragon Quest as the DQ system.

But nobody actually complains about the Dragon Quest. I'm probably one of only a handful of people who actually do the thing, at least regularly.

So . . .

PROBLEM 1: Too much coin generation from selling DQ items.

SOLUTION 1A: Incentive to discourage selling items. I.E. make the items useful, either as questing/crafting/etc items.

SOLUTION 1B: Rebalance the drops so there were fewer DQ items dropped - or have them drop like older quest items - into the quest inventory so that only people doing a DQ or Tiger Badge Quest can get them. Since the DQ items are a frequent drop, a great number of drop tables would have to be restructured.



PROBLEM 2: People don't do the Dragon Quest or Tiger Badge Quests.

SOLUTION 2A: Make the Quests worthwhile. The rewards achievable in a reasonable timeframe. And items suitable for all levels

--Of course I've found the DQ to be somewhat profitable if I pick up all the coins and sell the other drops. Not greatly but 50k - 150k per DQ run through depending on the DQ level and which DQ items I have on hand, and that final number include repair costs.





I don't quite see the point of Event Gold, but then I've never done much besides browse the Event Boutique, so I'm probably missing something. DO NOT GET INTO THAT SUBJECT HERE!!!


But ... Would you do a DQ or TBQ for Event Gold directly? If 10 Copper Dragon Order could be exchanged for 1 Event Gold, 2EG for a 15 Silver DOs, 5EG for 30 Gold Orders? Keeping in mind just how many craft materials you need for high-end gear, you'd have to do a lot for Event Gold. Also recall that DQ gives a nice chunk of XP and SP.

If you would do the quests for Event Gold, remembering the grindy nature of PW, what would be a ratio of completed quests to EGold you would consider fair?



::Grumbes:: I still like my eariler idea of having an alternate for the genies slot (a dragonnette!) that guards an extra-dimensional storage for you. To make and upgrade you'd need DOs, and while you could trade/sell/lose dragonnettes, your dragon vault wouldn't be available to other players in any way, but without a dragonette, and a payment of dq items to feed it or something, you can't access it.::

Not really sure why you are delving into the Dragon Quests. DQ originally sold for decent NPC coin. The NPC price was nerfed by about 20%. Then we received the nerf for 1 coin on some of the DQ. Finally, after the upcoming expansion, we will see a reduction of all DQ to 1 coin. Sure, you can do quest actual quest. The quest for the horse mount is pretty stale and outdated, but sure you can do it if you want. DQ items aren't disappearing. Botting is the reason the NPC prices have consistently been nerfed.

Furthermore, the DQ point system is what people have been referring too. That is what this thread is in reference too, that is what people want/have wanted a replacement to, and that is what was prior to this thread existing.

So, perhaps I fail to understand what you are getting at.

orangeladey

bluestuffzzz wrote: »

Not really sure why you are delving into the Dragon Quests. DQ originally sold for decent NPC coin. The NPC price was nerfed by about 20%. Then we received the nerf for 1 coin on some of the DQ. Finally, after the upcoming expansion, we will see a reduction of all DQ to 1 coin. Sure, you can do quest actual quest. The quest for the horse mount is pretty stale and outdated, but sure you can do it if you want. DQ items aren't disappearing. Botting is the reason the NPC prices have consistently been nerfed.

Furthermore, the DQ point system is what people have been referring too. That is what this thread is in reference too, that is what people want/have wanted a replacement to, and that is what was prior to this thread existing.

So, perhaps I fail to understand what you are getting at.

That kind of is my point, that the old DQuests are stale.

I'm not a dedicated player, but I've been around over 5 years now. I remember BEFORE there was a Dragon Point System. And before there was that first price drop.


My point is also: Instead of replacing an inconsistent out-of-game system, given PWs track record is unlikely to work better - work with what is in the game already and make it fresh, and give it purpose.


Yeah, I realize I'm kind of out of touch with normal players - I've kept my character at Level to earn the Penetrator via DQ. I'm about to quit currently holding at L70 where I've been grinding 1-man-Army and Wanted quests, etc. trying to get my Rep to R7 without Wraith badges (I've earned close to 2000 rep doing this, yes I'm nuts, no i'm not close to R7 yet).

Still as a mostly solo, grind-happy L70 Archer, my biggest expense is ammo. I DO NOT GET why players are so desperate for coin. Never have.

I'm a mediocre player. I play because I enjoy the look of the game, the music, and pretending I'm actually helping NPCs with their quests and during events.

I believe that hardwork can make the result all the sweeter, and that I can actually manage to accomplish some of these difficult tasks.


Frankly a lot of what I see and hear sounds like a large number of spoiled brats. 'Gimmee! Gimmee!' People looking for shortcuts and cheats.




Players charge exhoribitent amounts for items, other players are desperate enough to pay rather than working for that same item. Basic economics supply and demand. The price is what people are willing to pay.

We have a market dictated by the sellers.

I could go on a long tangent about economics, real and in-game, and don't be mistaken, the in-game economics follow real world principles, only they do so in an artifical environment.




I've made plenty of money not selling DQ items. Perhaps not as fast as selling them would earn me. But again, I don't have the need to earn coin.



You say people want a replacement for the Dragon Points. Fine. When I first read this thread a while back - A thread that asked for ideas - in maybe the first 20 pages, only had maybe a handful of valid ideas, and nothing was actually a suggestion for an actual 'system'. The rest were jokes, whining, demands, etc.



The first step in designing anything is knowing what you've got to work with. What are the problems you are trying to address? What are you trying to accomplish?

NOBODY is addressing those questions and issues in this thread!!!! I don't see anyone else actually asking them either!


Why do we need a Dragon Point System? Because we had one? Thats a poor reason. If I recall rightly, the DPS was player compensation for the price nerf. That was years ago.

That first price nerf was to reduce coin generation. Did that work? No obviously not.


For whatever personal reasons a player has people seem to want the event gold most - so they ground more. This of course generated more gold.




I think it would be a simple thing to add a trade screen to the DQ assistant. If by completing DQs you can ultimately trade for event Gold that would address a few issues at once.

-Players, with some effort, can get what they want.
-Reduce coin generation (admittedly putting the prices to 1 coin already does this)
-Bots become marginally less useful as the DQs are limitedly dynamic.


I've been trying to highlight that there is currently still a DQ system in place. The second one was added and taken away. We were asked for ideas. Get creative people! b:thanks




As for botting being the reason. Nope. That is a symptom.

The reason is people.

People being lazy. People thinking that they need coin to buy things. And people thinking they can make coin by selling things at unreasonable prices.

Bots are a tool. So is a car. So is a phone. So is a gun.

How people perceive the gameworld as needing coin might more precisely address this specific issue. The purpose of tools is to make things simpler - if you can change the perception that we need excessive coin in-game, then you will fix the botting problem.

Whoz_Nutz - Raging Tide

Dear Sir or Madam orangeladey,



"That first price nerf was to reduce coin generation. Did that work? No obviously not."

No, the DQ nerf was because of the botting in PWCN.

While it was nice of PWI to ask for suggestions, PWCN pays employees to make those decisions. This is PWCN's game and they get it programmed the way they want to see it.

Did PWI/ PWCN lie to us intentionally or unintentionally ?

I say yes

Will they admit they lied ?

I say No

Do they care ?

I say No

So, what can we do ? I say keep reminding them and request in the name of Pan Gu and the spirit of Tiananmen Square the we should be celebrating the 1st Year Anniversary of the Announcement of a New DQ System by giving a gift worthy of those who have waited so long.

Come on PWI, where's the love and sharing for your members for the 1st Year Anniversary Gift of the promised new DQ System ?

The way this has worked out, I would expect PWCN to authorize something from a list like: (feel free to add your suggestions)

2x 1-* dragon orbs

1x Charger Orb

1x Mirage stones

10x Rough Fur

b:dirty BOHICA b:kiss

orangeladey

Whoz_Nutz - Raging Tide wrote: »

Dear Sir or Madam orangeladey,



"That first price nerf was to reduce coin generation. Did that work? No obviously not."

No, the DQ nerf was because of the botting in PWCN.

But isn't the point of botting to get the drops and sell them --> i.e to generate coin? (Or, well, generating exp, but which is more likely?)

Perhaps I'm naive, but I never understood how dropped prices would reduce bots. Thing may not be as profitable, but that first price drop wasn't as bad as people made out. Especially in comparrison to the current price for most dq items.

I thought it was counter productive to lower price, because then people would think they needed to bot more to make up the difference.

While it was nice of PWI to ask for suggestions, PWCN pays employees to make those decisions. This is PWCN's game and they get it programmed the way they want to see it.

Did PWI/ PWCN lie to us intentionally or unintentionally ?

I say yes

Will they admit they lied ?

I say No

Do they care ?

I say No

So, what can we do ? I say keep reminding them and request in the name of Pan Gu and the spirit of Tiananmen Square the we should be celebrating the 1st Year Anniversary of the Announcement of a New DQ System by giving a gift worthy of those who have waited so long.

Come on PWI, where's the love and sharing for your members for the 1st Year Anniversary Gift of the promised new DQ System ?

The way this has worked out, I would expect PWCN to authorize something from a list like: (feel free to add your suggestions)

2x 1-* dragon orbs

1x Charger Orb

1x Mirage stones

10x Rough Fur

b:dirty BOHICA b:kiss

You know it's sad that many Chinese don't have a clue what we mean if we mention the incident of Tiananmen Square? Couple years ago there was an article that talked about showing the footage to University level students from China studying in the US, and I don't believe any of them knew what the footage was from.


As for 1 year gifts ideas, well, if I was still trying for that Blacksmith Skill quest the Rough Fur would have been very nice.

As for gift suggestions ...

1ea. L3 elemental soulgem - collect the rainbow!

5 - non-stackable time-limited fashion packs, only openable with Golden Hammer.

20 - Keys for Nanmuwood chests

1 - irremovable(no trade/sell/stash/npc/drop) dq promisory note - redeemable for dq credit once you collect 500!





Okay - I'm getting too cynical for my own tastes now



And I still stand by my question of two posts ago - Would you do the Dragon Quests and/or Tiger Badge if you could trade the rewards for Event Gold directly somehow?

sylhoul

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

You do realize they already removed the old DQ system...even though we were told way back before that that they wouldnt remove it till the new one was in place. Not to mention the fact that they tried to sneak in the removal of DQ in the first place without mentioning changes to the DQ items themselves till i made a thread taking note of this. Then suddenly the patch notes were revised to not the change to DQ items......cuz yea.

Yeah, I remember that too. Like the boy who cried wolf though, there is only so many times a development team can lie to its player base before many of us stop believing anything they say all together.

My suggestion on this DQ thread? Put in any system, and actually try to restore the credibility that is pretty much in the garbage right now.

My suggestion to the developers? Stop lying to your player base. If you remove a system as you did this one and never intend to actually replace it with an equal system? Don't lie to us and claim you are working on a 'great new system!" to replace it and get people's hopes up. Tell us the truth from the start.

Sorry if anyone has perceived my tone as yet another whiner. I don't intend to be. I'm just sick of being lied to repeatedly on this and many other issues you've promised.

Start keeping your promises please. Things may be different in some other cultures but here in America, repeated falsehoods really do drive away your credibility and your business.

Father_gold - Sanctuary

at this point, there is a literal TON of stuff to farm in game without DQ's. while i feel they need to add back something to make up for the lack of coin drops we had with Dq's, i dont really care to keep arguing for a replacement system that will never come.

1- replace DQ's, since they will be useless now, with other drops. either add better pots or increase the amount of gear or the value of gear drops, higher level gear can also just decomp into more useful items at no cost instead of the current cost. simply, add the coin back without letting it be abused the way it is.

2- I like the current trend of codes being administered over the site. if they could figure out a way to distribute those codes in a sustainable way that people can earn different tiers of.... that would be pretty reasonable.

at this point everyone should be on the same pages as to the causes and history of the DQ debacle. there is really NOTHING that has not been plainly and truthfully stated, besides an honest response from the companies running this game.

this and many other issues in the past and present have proven that player input is about the 100th things the dev's take into consideration (behind "did i feed my cat?" and "should i buy a new pair of slippers, or a gold watch?")

Saethos - Raging Tide

Something should also be done with the Chest of Coins, I'm sitting on a couple hundred, just waiting...

Sir_rusty - Dreamweaver

13 Yes 13 months and still no replacement for dragon points how are players now supposed to get there dragon orbs +10s OH thats right you want $50 each for them when they are supposed to be a reward for years of playing and paying. you want money but are not willing to give anything in return no more coin to PWI till there is a way to earn orbs b:angryb:angry

tmllover

Mods and/or sparkie, please un-sticky this thread.

It is obvious nothing is going to replace the DQ system.
Nothing has been said about it in months. Hell, we were never given any more information other then "we are working on it"


Please just un-sticky it and let the thought die and fade away.

Sir_rusty - Dreamweaver

Thats exactly what they want to do let it die they never had any intention of replacing it but if we keep calling them out on it they might get the idea that those of us that been playing this game a long time still demand it be replaced.
The game is dead ( wonders if staff know which tosser is killing game and would they fire them if they had the brains to work it out )b:angry

Burnificator - Archosaur

Guys! Guys, guys, GUYS!

Just stop posting in this thread for a month or so.

Then, someone post in it so it can be closed for necro.

Problem solved.

gamer4jesus

Burnificator - Archosaur wrote: »

Guys! Guys, guys, GUYS!

Just stop posting in this thread for a month or so.

Then, someone post in it so it can be closed for necro.

Problem solved.

Only problem is that sticky threads never gets closed. b:laughb:cryb:laugh

Ahmas - Archosaur

this should be worked on since pwi takes away all of our farming options in game to force everyone to cs for every single little teeny thing since level ****** 1

Sky_the_fair - Heavens Tear

Seems kinda useless now since alot of good players have already left, their chances of getting anything decent was cut down by the removal of the DQ system, among some of the few things.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Here's a question....

Since they're obviously ignoring this completely... Why is it still a sticky thread?

opkossy

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why is it still a sticky thread?

Because mods aren't touching it (various reasons) and unstickying it would probably raise another fuss even though it doesn't need to be a sticky. b:avoid

Nahktuul - Archosaur

OPKossy wrote: »

Because mods aren't touching it (various reasons) and unstickying it would probably raise another fuss even though it doesn't need to be a sticky. b:avoid

Too many damn stickies in this forum anyway. It looks like a post-it addiction gone cyber.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

but... Riots are fun.......

opkossy

Nahktuul - Archosaur wrote: »

Too many damn stickies in this forum anyway. It looks like a post-it addiction gone cyber.

I was honestly just thinking that looking at the forum... but new expansion and all so meh. After the fuss dies down it'll get reduced.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

but... Riots are fun.......

Fine but I'm using you as a shield! b:laugh

you101

lets just hope the new DQ system has something worthy to play and farm dq other wise is not worth some people were farming dq to make money and now sinceu changing it atleast lets hope u put something useful in new dq system and not random cheap *** items >.<

Whoz_Nutz - Raging Tide

The rally cry will be "All DQ Matters." The national rally will start in San Francisco led by the players unions, anarchists and communist party members. "No DQ, No Peace!! No DQ, No Peace!!" Shut the streets down and burn baby burn. If you're going to riot, don't do it half way.

b:shutup

Larkel - Heavens Tear

I understand the issue around dq's and the havoc it has caused in the economy of the game. However, there is and will be a huge divide of players with/wo coin. I think dq's new system should help alleviate this gap, since it is the reason for both sides of the fence.

Some suggestions:

1. They could be used to get into special events that have higher drop rates of coin and loot.

2. Used to trade for perfect tokens of luck

3. Traded for low to high end materials for gear

4. Reverse the PW boutique agent DQ2, and add a tab to exchange the DQ for special books,
weapons and gear.


5. traded for reputation


I do hope the new system is used in a way that makes them very useful to collect while at the same time helping out struggling players.

sarabethali

PLEASE, oh please don't make another convoluted system. Just give us back a coin value for the drops and let us spend it as WE choose.

There are so many worthless items in the game now -

mysterious chips --- seriously? items are far overpriced, it doesn't make sense to use them. And please tell us how to get them out of inventory.

Nirvana keys - there's a head banger, no one does Nirvana anymore. Why do you give them as BH 'rewards'? On the off chance that someone wants to actually go in Nirvana the keys are available in RT.

Fairy box keys - ummm have you noticed that there aren't any Fairy boxes to be had????

For once, please, just some common sense straightforward value to drops. Again, so we can spend coins on what we choose.

It gets a little tiresome when you need a 1,000 page manual just to play a game. The focus should be on actual gameplay and figuring out stats and equipment to do the fun things like run instances, not trying to be bean counters for another series of things to collect - it's just one more pain in the neck, and there's enough of that already.

How about applying the KISS method to this 'improvement'? Keep It Simple Stupid.

This lack of income has really hurt already and more delays waiting for some magical formula to complicate things just makes it worse. It's VERY discouraging. So yeah, for once, a SIMPLE straightforward solution - just some drops with coin value to npc, please. Oh and maybe some nice event gold to make up for the delays and help us forget that it ever happend.

While we're all just waiting around, 2x coin drops from mobs would help out a bit. Here's another Simple solution - why not just reinstate the DQ drops coin value while we're waiting around?

Just make it simple for US and for yourselves. If you all need some busy work, how about just working on all the glitches?

Yes, I'm getting burned out on the game. It's getting to be more headache than fun. I can't truly believe that it's your intention to discourage players.

Thanks for listening.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

sarabethali wrote: »

PLEASE, oh please don't make another convoluted system. Just give us back a coin value for the drops and let us spend it as WE choose.

There are so many worthless items in the game now -

mysterious chips --- seriously? items are far overpriced, it doesn't make sense to use them. And please tell us how to get them out of inventory.

Nirvana keys - there's a head banger, no one does Nirvana anymore. Why do you give them as BH 'rewards'? On the off chance that someone wants to actually go in Nirvana the keys are available in RT.

Fairy box keys - ummm have you noticed that there aren't any Fairy boxes to be had????

For once, please, just some common sense straightforward value to drops. Again, so we can spend coins on what we choose.

It gets a little tiresome when you need a 1,000 page manual just to play a game. The focus should be on actual gameplay and figuring out stats and equipment to do the fun things like run instances, not trying to be bean counters for another series of things to collect - it's just one more pain in the neck, and there's enough of that already.

How about applying the KISS method to this 'improvement'? Keep It Simple Stupid.

This lack of income has really hurt already and more delays waiting for some magical formula to complicate things just makes it worse. It's VERY discouraging. So yeah, for once, a SIMPLE straightforward solution - just some drops with coin value to npc, please. Oh and maybe some nice event gold to make up for the delays and help us forget that it ever happend.

While we're all just waiting around, 2x coin drops from mobs would help out a bit. Here's another Simple solution - why not just reinstate the DQ drops coin value while we're waiting around?

Just make it simple for US and for yourselves. If you all need some busy work, how about just working on all the glitches?

Yes, I'm getting burned out on the game. It's getting to be more headache than fun. I can't truly believe that it's your intention to discourage players.

Thanks for listening.

Restoring coin value to drops is a 100% no go. It was not possible years ago even with a CM who did a lot of negotiating for the player base. The most we can hope for is a revamped DQ point system.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

You guys still have hope... I gave up on that a while ago. I still look at it from time to time but I guess it won't change.

Suggestions? They had aplenty of them over a year, besides the point there were good and bad ones alike.
They won't give a status on how it's progressing, since maybe it never existed or got abandoned quickly.
They never replied on how they could do it, because they won't.
They all could now say that the devs are the bad guys and that we won't get any modified form of the old system (or even a restored one), but they won't even tell us if it's a yes or a no.
It was a nice bonus, crippled by a bugged system. It is long gone now.

I've learned to accept it as a long-time player. It felt like those movies where a stranded guy on a desert island keeps waiting everyday, first hoping that he will get rescued, then slowly accepts he has to go on and focus on surviving.

...

I'm kidding, but really, It's another example a wasted opportunity, another hollow wish we just were given. Am I offended by it? Nah. I sure feel that it was a cheap, easy way to get bonus points towards a tired, irritable community though...
For real, it's just a daily, endless "whatever goes" feeling I nowadays sense for this game named PWI.

celtthunder

Larkel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I understand the issue around dq's and the havoc it has caused in the economy of the game. However, there is and will be a huge divide of players with/wo coin. I think dq's new system should help alleviate this gap, since it is the reason for both sides of the fence.

Some suggestions:

1. They could be used to get into special events that have higher drop rates of coin and loot.

2. Used to trade for perfect tokens of luck

3. Traded for low to high end materials for gear

4. Reverse the PW boutique agent DQ2, and add a tab to exchange the DQ for special books,
weapons and gear.


5. traded for reputation


I do hope the new system is used in a way that makes them very useful to collect while at the same time helping out struggling players.

Oh no! That's actually practical and makes sense, therefore it's probly doomed.
___

Back to the original post on this thread.

I don't wanna kill the messenger, but you gotta realize it doesn't make sense that DQ coin was taken away because something wasn't "living up to your standards". If that was the case, why not take away DQ drops altogether instead of insulting us by lowering the value to 1 coin? If that was the case, why take roughly 90% of the value of equipment drops as well? The story might marginally fly if not for that.

While the system is being "revamped" (oops, but unknown how long this could take...) why not just restore the original coin values to DQ drops? and to useless (mostly) equipment drops?

I know what you said, or rather were told to say, but it doesn't mesh with what actually happened. To many of us it looks like what happened was that pwi said "let's take away coin value from most drops and see what happens when players realize that it will hurt the economy all the way down the line! Should be interesting".

Here's a question I don't expect an honest answer to: Does anyone that works for pwi actually play the game on a regular basis? My guess is no, or you'd have a better perspective.

Sorry, this isn't "living up to MY standards", but it does answer the question "how stupid does pwi think we are?"

TurdBurglar - Harshlands

moo is moo

Thessalya - Raging Tide

This is really ridiculous!! I used to go out and help people kill mobs for cultivation quests and help lower level players all day long with their BHs. Before the insulting decrease in value of drops i was able to pay the repairs on my gear and have some coin left over but now I end up almost a million coin in the hole if I decide to spend my day playing my character. This is a huge insult to players that actually play to earn coin to buy their gear and it's a slap in the face to those who can't just throw real life money into the game. It's not just a little money here and there, it's hundreds if not thousands of dollars to get good gear.

I stayed through the nirvana fiasco when a lot of my friends quit the game because they are not PVP players and adapted. I stayed though the change in FC even though the dailies that replaced the exp gain take a lot longer. But this change in which you take away all value of all drops is ridiculous. I understand the goal of PW is to make money but come on! Let the few of us that actually farm our gear have one little way to actually farm it while playing our character.

I am usually the last to complain but I was so upset i really just needed to vent it out. Give us back at least SOME value. If I kill a mob there's no reason it shouldn't drop coin or something worth value. Give back to the people who are willing to work for their coin some coin. At least let me earn back enough to cover damage to my equipment.

midnight1313

sadface DX

Servetje - Morai

Make a Sin+ a cleri buffbot... Get Sin geared ASAP (Aps gear+r9 weapon) And farm gold mats in TT 3-1,2,3 f:money

It's the most fast way to earn cash or make 3-4 alts and do cube runs with them.