Nice Update for CoA Event

124

Comments

  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    PvP vs PVE gear ...

    Here is Wizard, switching gear to increase damage output:







    How much is cost of Wizard's gear ?

    As I know ... they pay not less than melee and they have ability to be interrupted by skills/hits of enemy:






    Close range attackers for Wizards are bad .... and ?

    Archers too *Edit*



    Most of bosses attack in close range ...
    Is this disadvantage for Wizards ?

    cost of wiz gear..., did you miss the part about melee (bm sin really) needing 2 sets of gear instead of 1? melee skills are interruptable too

    close range..being able to use range attacks has no damage pentalty well there should be some cost to that concept - it was defense but not anymore (archers at least have range penalty) many bosses are ranged now actually
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    cost of wiz gear..., did you miss the part about melee (bm sin really) needing 2 sets of gear instead of 1? melee skills are interruptable too
    ...

    1. To achieve high channeling speed some Wizards use gear with -channeling bonuses (as additional gear).

    It is not cheap.

    Gems and refines too.

    Because those gear is without defensive bonuses high level Wizards rare use it in PvP.


    2. How often melee use his skills ?

    Wizard use them always.
    Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...

    close range..being able to use range attacks has no damage pentalty well there should be some cost to that concept - it was defense but not anymore (archers at least have range penalty) many bosses are ranged now actually

    Attack of enemy in close range can interrupt Wizard's skills.
    Some bosses and mobs have skills to decrease channeling speed and interrupt channeling.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    1. To achieve high channeling speed some Wizards use gear with -channeling bonuses (as additional gear).

    It is not cheap.

    Gems and refines too.

    Because those gear is without defensive bonuses high level Wizards rare use it in PvP.


    2. How often melee use his skills ?

    Wizard use them always.



    Attack of enemy in close range can interrupt Wizard's skills.
    Some bosses and mobs have skills to decrease channeling speed and interrupt channeling.

    6% chan neck/belt are like 500k each, all endgame rings have -6% chan

    really gonna give up 30 atk lvl and 100 magic bonus for a few channeling?, a wiz MIGHT change their necky, but then loosing 5 atk lvl and 3% crit, so lol - endgame a channeling set decreases your DPH not very practical

    gems and refines? the hell, gemming and refining 1 set of gear is more expensive than 2? please channelign sets were common before s3 somewhat, before r9 yes, but now theyre highly impractical greatly lowering damage

    some bosses have skills to decrease attack speed, interrupt attacks, and BRAMBLE, and of course 75-90% melee reduction damage, not to mention bramble works in NW
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...
    some bosses have skills to decrease attack speed, interrupt attacks, and BRAMBLE, and of course 75-90% melee reduction damage, not to mention bramble works in NW
    Some bosses immune to Magical damage (Fire/Earth/Water)...
  • Nenor - Dreamweaver
    Nenor - Dreamweaver Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Some bosses immune to Magical damage (Fire/Earth/Water)...

    And some things are immune to physical damage. So what was the point again?


    Edit* btw, where is the just squad up option?
  • Toliman - Raging Tide
    Toliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Nenor - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    And some things are immune to physical damage. So what was the point again?


    Edit* btw, where is the just squad up option?

    I say about it exactly.

    Update for CoA and some other instances is necessary to balance game.
    MP draining over time AOE - someone can tell me about it (in PM), because I saw this ability for Slitt only - is it dangerous for casters (I mean during attack of Ancient Spearman, for example) ?
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited September 2013
    Remember any squadding would have to be done after being ported into the instance and you've found someone you can stand working with and find as trustworthy. The latter, of course, being one of the bigger problems for most people.

    The reason for that is simple: CoA will teleport you to the various "rooms" randomly regardless of squad setup. So even if you were to join a squad and have casters in it, you have no guarantee you'd be in the same room as the casters instead of being stuck alone.

    If it were similar to NW where squads were not broken up, only the lower leveled players or those who are somewhat undergeared, relatively speaking, and thus unable to really utilize DPH very well (After all, you don't get R8/G15/G16/R8R/R9 or high refines the instant you've hit 100+) wold have any reason to be upset here.

    Granted, there's always going to be people like some of the ones in this thread that don't seem capable of using their brains and adapting to things. However, that doesn't lessen the legitimate issues that some changes will cause.
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  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    How often has a caster/ranged DD k'sed a melee DD?
    questing in the old days, back when questing actually was done - anyone with range could easily KS a melee DD. Two reasons for this. 1 - in the time it takes you to run up to a mob you intended to attack, the archer/wiz/veno etc is channeling their first attack - which more often than not places them ahead of you. 2. Old school melee DD were not built for aps, and a "fist BM" was a joke one shot for any str based meleer.

    More recently though, actually over the past few years since -int was commonplace and fishies were introduced - aps style meleers win out so long as a couple conditions are met: a) apser gets there first b)apser might not get there first, but if the target has a larger HP pool (boss for example) the apser has the luxury of catching up in DD even if the boss is around 1/4 down on HP.

    APS still outperforms in other instances such as Warsong and TT. Alas these are team based instances, so there's no prize all to yourself for out damaging the casters around you.
    Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you're missing a few key points:

    1. an APS set of armor/gear sucks especially with r9s3 typical aps gear is 1 shottable, this requires havign 1 set of armor for APS and 1 for everything else (not to mention rerolling interval is quite a challange); all while casters have 1 obvious do-all set of gear endgame; lets not forget with the even stronger set bonuses an APS user is 50-60+ atk levels short of a caster right off the bat..and 100 stat points just from bonus..
    even with these considerations, many sins and even bms still out DPS any DPH class unless they are trying not to.
    2. anyone remember the term glass cannon? no they dont anymore because wiz has more pdef and mdef than a LA class, the point was arcanes were suppose to be squishy, badly scaling buffs and new gear made casters less squishy then LA/HA in many situations
    2.a range- being melee is a damn drawback when hitting/tanking- range should be a benefit with a cost
    So sins/bms that deal insane amounts of damage on an aps setup should also have some negative draw back? Sure you aren't as well protected from damage as some end game geared wiz - but you get BP which means for the most part you can just twitch away at most things and not use a single potion. Wiz doesn't have that luxury. Their skills use mana pots, and if they aren't self healing (as a means to keep potential to a maximum) they'll inevitably charm tick or need to use HP potions.
    3. arcanes were always DPH, arcane weapons never had a special buff like non AA weps, this was balanced with a higher attack range though- scaled to make up for various weapon procs, aa procs or not- they are designed to win in DPH

    What does having longer range have to do with their advantage over CoA? Is it that they don't have to move as far? I've seen lots of sins kill a boss, move to the next kill it.. and still have time left before the first respawned. Does this happen for casters? For the record - I've seen some pretty powerful sins actually out DPH my seeker and an equivalently geared wizard while we were in delta. He actually managed to hold aggro on waves with his aoe combos while vortex and db were up. If that is possible, im thinking that it would be possible to out dph in CoA as well.
    4. the "brokenness" of APS was established long before tideborn even came out, that they would offer a class with amazing potential then every update strip that potential (and of course mislead other APS classes) away when all the "OPness" of it was well known beforehand... is misleading at best and **** at worst
    I think the anti-melee buff came as a response in part to playerbase complaining that APS ruined squad play, even the "game" itself - since no one really wanted a regular squad setup anymore once APS started to become more mainstream. If things could be done in a spark cycle or two - that was how they wanted it done, and anything else was just considered "too long" anymore. Non aps characters found it very hard to get anything done anymore unless they had a friends who didn't mind running with them.

    The anti-auto attack buff is an answer to a lot of those concerns, but IMO it came way too late. I used to say back in the day that they should put random bramble up on bosses - so that sins couldn't just solo everything. That didn't happen back then, and sins/bms/archers/barbs who all went aps style got the luxury of solo farming lots of stuff for a long time. Many people even caved and "adjusted" to that era in pwi gaming and rolled an aps toon themselves. Some just quit. Now we have a system that attempts to balance things back out to how they used to be - and people are still complaining. Oh well. The devs can't please everyone I guess. I say it is a welcome change though as it (the buff itself) gives some of the original classes a purpose again. People used to not care about if Aba/SoT had a barb - now most squads wont go without one. Casters had the short end of the stick getting into squads, all for the sake of making things faster with an apser. Now, casters have a role again. SoT boss for example goes by much faster with casters in squad than it does with mostly bms and sins.
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    OPKossy wrote: »
    Remember any squadding would have to be done after being ported into the instance and you've found someone you can stand working with and find as trustworthy.

    And to be sure the one that pick the drops don't DC.

    Anyway, eventually the price of the pages will drop so COA is not a huge farming instances, aps still have TT that casters cannot do.

    And as someone said the ring is not something people want anymore since a long time.

    can't wait to see aps toons cry at the tiger event too.
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  • MasterPerian - Lost City
    MasterPerian - Lost City Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I find it extremely funny that a full +12 r93rd BM kinda struggles in this place after buffs wear off....

    TWO FKING GOLEMS IMMUNE TO DAMAGE STUNNING THE ** OUTTA ME FOR EVER!

    excuse my rage b:chuckle

    still pretty straight forward and soloable however the instance has certainly become something I can't just spark to victory on.

    Please Jesus get rid of them golems. b:laugh
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  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »
    And to be sure the one that pick the drops don't DC.

    Anyway, eventually the price of the pages will drop so COA is not a huge farming instances, aps still have TT that casters cannot do.

    And as someone said the ring is not something people want anymore since a long time.

    can't wait to see aps toons cry at the tiger event too.

    Why would they? They are competing against each other in tigers, not against casters/archers.

    The point bout CoA really is, melee DDs have to have something over ranged ones to balance it out as range is major advantage. In days of aps it was dps, maybe by too big margin but if ranged DDs now also get more dps, what the point of melee ones? Honestly, while aps was broken, this antiaps bandwagon we got going with devs is just as gamebreaking.
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  • Cross_Marian - Harshlands
    Cross_Marian - Harshlands Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    don't try to make the server cool and better with this, cause u r unbalancing the server, this is not cool and this is not better, CoA was balanced, Physical immune and normal bosses, melee can kill boss and casters too, so why need to make unbalanced on it?
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Actually endgame DPS with R999 gear is better than most 5.0 damage output. The advantage is having the attack speed to keep the sparked DPS up, but any boss that can die to a party in a few minutes will not warrant the need for a switch to 5.0 gear, especially if the important amps and debuffs gets cast at the beginning.

    5.0 is still useful to help people tank and solo, but as far as most PvE activities are concerned, I don't think I've seen 5.0 being used for awhile now.

    This, coupled with 5.0 gear sucking complete balls in PvP, really doesn't justify trying to nerf the gear setup artificially anymore. It has a place in a few niche PvE activities and nowhere much else. Everyone just needs to let it go.
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  • Sevchenko - Dreamweaver
    Sevchenko - Dreamweaver Posts: 661 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Oh no, you bought R9R3 4 Aps and takes 5 minutes to kill things?

    So bad for you. b:bye
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  • Linc - Raging Tide
    Linc - Raging Tide Posts: 589 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    b:dirty b:dirty

    Waaaaa WAAAAAA waaaaaaaaa

    ku ku ku ku KUMBIA!!!!! aha aha aha


    Well i guess now my level 100 alt sin 3.33 aps sparked that I haven't logged on to this year at all is now worthless for an event which I never once attended on the sin?

    And even worse, my sage vit built cata barb will be doing about what it used to in old CoA?

    My my my, why can't i get a broken exploit break from the devs, i don't know whats wrong with them.

    don't they see how much coin i spend and how much i deserve to get stuff that the normal players who play the game for enjoyment and not for players so dedicated to aps and farm farm farm farm farm farm and farm some more.

    b:sin

    i know there might be folks that enjoy farming themselves into oblivion and a stack of big notes and then they can siggy themselves to show everyone how they spend zero real life coin and that makes them better somehow

    if i had anymore room in my siggy, then i should announce my pride and joy of being graced and fortunate enough to farm the real world and spend some of that discretionary income on this game, but alas my siggy seems more full than the forums will allow.

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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »
    Why would they? They are competing against each other in tigers, not against casters/archers.

    The point bout CoA really is, melee DDs have to have something over ranged ones to balance it out as range is major advantage. In days of aps it was dps, maybe by too big margin but if ranged DDs now also get more dps, what the point of melee ones? Honestly, while aps was broken, this antiaps bandwagon we got going with devs is just as gamebreaking.

    You didn't read the update about Tiger event?

    That's fine you will see it tonight. =)
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  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »
    You didn't read the update about Tiger event?

    That's fine you will see it tonight. =)

    I can't wait to see what that brings about
    *pulls up a chair*
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  • Lolitta - Raging Tide
    Lolitta - Raging Tide Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Maybe sins should change the class. APS people have TT, they kill so fast every boss on game and magic DD are kinda useless now, maybe is time they farm something for a change...
    Sins are OP and they kill 10 times faster then any magic DD and now maybe we have what to farm again after Nirvana . I just wish the instance will not be so OP and T3 gear people can play to not build just for R9 people with 20k HP b:shocked
  • scruncy
    scruncy Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    wait untill you see the tiger event update b:chuckle
  • Aeliah - Dreamweaver
    Aeliah - Dreamweaver Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    So... I'm not sure if anybody suggested this compromise, but it seemed really obvious for me.

    They should do the same thing in CoA that they did in tiger event, or at least a variation that looks something like this:

    Half bosses are immune to elemental and have, for example, 3mil hp.
    Half the bosses are immune to physical and have 1mil hp.

    Each would drop same # of astral orbs.

    Also another possibility:

    1/2 of bosses have 3mil hp
    1/2 of bosses have the anti-aps buff, with 1.5mil hp; these bosses would be strictly melee, so that archers don't get a huge advantage by auto attacking from range (and modern casters have no trouble tanking CoA bosses anyways)

    Seems like these would be more fair ways of addressing the problem than the solution PWI implemented. I don't really mind personally because... I'll just go on the cleric instead of assassin now. It is odd though that they would ostracize dps so much from all of the popular events... I can understand adding in benefits to being non-dps, but to completely eliminate dps seems a bit extreme. Ah well.

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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »
    Why would they? They are competing against each other in tigers, not against casters/archers.

    As I predicted I saw little aps fishes cry tonight. =)
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  • Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721
    Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721 Posts: 651 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Kitty doesn't understand this QQ about sins and BMs being "totally useless now as 5APS-herpderp-triple-spark-oops-boss-died-so-quick-QQ". Now it's just time for them to finally learn their class properly f:cute

    A sin that knows how to DPH doesn't lose to casters, and hardly for archers. Some sin with G15 or G16 dags with +5 can do a combo that would hit about 120-150k to [?]-bosses once every min, and about 50-80k while waiting Inner Harmony to get off the CD. That makes time to solo a boss in CoA on sin about 5-8 mins. And Kitty thinks she still underestimates the damage. Some combo-practising, anyone? Also squading up might be useful now f:hehe

    Kitty thinks CoA also wasn't meant to be 30 min APS-herpderp-fest originally. This makes it take longer and in some ways maybe fancier.
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  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »
    As I predicted I saw little aps fishes cry tonight. =)

    I cried a bit tbh. Then again it was cause I got to last tiger with my aerogear glitching. Resulted in me losing the 1 spark I would of gotten on said boss as I tried to get off aerogear for~10s till I gave up and just sparked on air, managing to hit it few times before it died. In the end I was still first on sins prior to random points, which put me on 2nd place by 200 points. You win some, you lose some, shame I lost my likely one chance to win sins as N3+12 really is quite far from R9T3+12 in terms of dps.

    Ps. Some people who dont understand the concept of how broken it is if ranged DDs have the same dps as melee DDs, freaking seriously. Its not like range is supposed to be an advantage or anything, lol.
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  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I want to ask if its intended bosses regen 500k hp on random intervals? Almost 20mins down of the instance and I have killed 2 or 3 bosses total as those jerks keep regening that hp. Seems like its not even worth it as a freaking archer if you arent R9T3+12. If I could count the times boss has gone from <100k to 500k+, I could count pretty damn high.
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  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Which boss were you killing? I noticed it sometimes on the ice giant boss, but not on the one phys immune boss I usually do.
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  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    Which boss were you killing? I noticed it sometimes on the ice giant boss, but not on the one phys immune boss I usually do.

    I am on twin room as CoA is kinda dead tonight. I am estimating that CoA simply isnt worth doing with my archer that has N3+10 bow, bosses regen too often to kill them efficiently. The pot/charm use killing Ceneguus really isnt worth it and somebody pulled my gaurnob somewhere ~10mins ago.
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  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Cenequus isn't really worth it due to the AOE spam if range-tanked and I'd avoid it like the plague.

    Just do Gaurnob or Bronze if you're gonna be in that room.
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  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    Cenequus isn't really worth it due to the AOE spam if range-tanked and I'd avoid it like the plague.

    Just do Gaurnob or Bronze if you're gonna be in that room.

    Yea, got my gaurnob back while ago, no idea where it was. Bronze thingy was taken by somebody and when CoA is that empty, I didnt feel like taking it from them <.<. But this is kinda absrud, it takes so long that I still kinda question the point of doing this. I can see pages multiplying in price though.

    Edit: Meh, 1h is the time limit though I believe? Archo couldnt hit 3k tonight <.<.
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  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »
    Yea, got my gaurnob back while ago, no idea where it was. Bronze thingy was taken by somebody and when CoA is that empty, I didnt feel like taking it from them <.<. But this is kinda absrud, it takes so long that I still kinda question the point of doing this. I can see pages multiplying in price though.

    Edit: Meh, 1h is the time limit though I believe? Archo couldnt hit 3k tonight <.<.

    I don't think page price will go up that much if at all, tbh. There's still plenty of other routes to get pages that weren't tweaked and two of the rewards from the new instance are pages. And one hour is the time limit, yeah.

    I basically doubled the amount of pages I was getting through CoA with this update so w/e.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • Untamed_pain - Archosaur
    Untamed_pain - Archosaur Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Hide how was it dead i couldn't get in...it gave me my money back it was full instance.
    untamed_pain demon veno 103-100-101
    SweetAzHoney Sage Cleric 102-currently rebirthing
    xXZoeMarieXx sage seeker 101-currently rebirthing
    StormyRainz Demon Mystic 101 Not rebirth yet
    EsmeStorms Demon wizzy 101 not rebirth yet
    UhitLikaGirl Almost sage barb 100 buffer
    and loads of other alts...

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