Deity, Jades, or a blend?

ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

If you shard full deity on archer you're gonna lose most duels/small scale pvp's (except the ones where your opponent doesn't know you're deity sharded), but I think you'll be ok in mass pvp only because that's where archers are strongest.

Honestly imo the best classes to shard full Deity stones (at least in terms of dueling power) is, ironically, clerics/mystics, and ofc sins.

Clerics and sin because they are designed to control 90% of the fight, and can shadow escape/plume shell the 10% where they are vulnerable.

Mystics b/c they can tank anything that isn't a 1/2 shot due to the sheer speed of falling petals and BiTC, and they are consistent - due to lucky break and absorb soul, if they have a one/two shot combo, they can do it everytime, no depending on a lucky crit needed. And with deitys, they WILL have multiple 1/2 shot combos available.

Ofc no cleric in their right mind would ever shard deitys, but I think its viable on sins/mystics.

@Harshland - Could you imagine Ascii with R9rr+12 full deity? f:sweat

Burnout - Harshlands

ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Harshland - Could you imagine Ascii with R9rr+12 full deity? f:sweat

He's prob the only cleric I wouldn't be surprised to see with full Deity's on b:chuckle.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lol. Alright then. Anyone that has seen my TW vids vs vex in the few fights you actually turned up will see how much of a complete nab of an archer you are.

Multiple times you stand in stealth alone, triple spark then IG and get facerolled. A complete and utter disgrace to archers all over. I practically farmed you in TWs. You play like you're an aps sin. Total fail.

Most account buyers learn the toon and class, you however are worse than even fc noobs. Feel free to point me to where in my video you wipe my entire squad alone. I dont edit any bits out, unlike your vids which are a pain to even watch and omg boa on a group and victory. Gtfo here lol.

Faced dat nab in NW today. Was me (G16+7 armor +4 wep), Prindagelf (+10 bow +7 armor r9rr), cleric with G16 +4 and level 97 veno+ other nabs. He proceeded to die to purge, respawn, got chi, trip spark-->awaken-->IG-->trip spark and died a bit after. Killed veno and cleric and I don't quite recall but I think Prinda died too. Gonna watch his recording later if he makes one

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

@Dark, I'm not so convinced that your opinion of Fly is entirely accurate. I think what frustrates you is Fly's willingness to expend all of his resources so quickly, and possibly lingering jealousy over how he acquired his archer. His tendency to use high-chi maneuvers goes against your conservative principles (expend resources slowly and cycle through your defenses so you always have an 'escape' from a situation). I also need to point out that your gear is considerably better than his.

The fact is, though, that triple sparks are a legitimate response to a variety of archer situations. When facing difficult odds (multiple opponents, or a really tanky opponent like myself), a triple spark can have a good chance of killing enemies where nothing else could have. Naturally there is risk. If the triple spark fails to kill anybody, you just expended a lot of chi for no gain. However, in some cases, it will achieve results that your conservative style of play could never hope to replicate. Its a gamble, but its a gamble that could definitely work in your favor.

I'll be quite blunt. Fly probably has a better chance of killing me in 1vs1 than you do, due to his willingness to attempt those high risk/high reward attempts that can ACTUALLY KILL ME. As a jades archer, you can snipe and kite and save your chi as much as you like, but against my defenses, reaction time, and control skills, I will wear you down and kill you, more often than not. In comparison, a random triple spark on Fly could, depending on when he times it + a bit of luck with purge, end the fight before I can react. Some recent 2vs3 fights brought this point home in resounding fashion.

Naturally this is a strategy adopted from dps sins, you are correct in that much at least. However I wouldn't be so disparaging of triple-spark tactics just because of that. Whereas I agree that Fly could learn to manage chi better for longer fights, I'd also say that you could learn a thing or two about taking risks that could pay off big rewards.

All of this kinda reminds me of the whole jades vs deity debate. The entire deity stone BUILD is a high risk/high reward gameplay. You trade long-term survivability for more offensive potential. You survive less but you kill more. While individual archers have their own preferences, most people will say that for an archer, deity stones is a valid build, just like a jades build is.

In TW I can see a conservative style of chi management that avoids triple sparking leading to more average kills/time. In small group pvp or 1vs1, I can see a style that incorporates some triple sparking at opportune moments as being helpful to surprise the opponent, particularly when you get that lucky purge (lucky? triple spark increases chance of purge if demon after all).

Just sayin.

Quilue - Sanctuary

3 spark IG is a better TW strategy than 1v1 because you would be able to use that burst of power somewhere else if your target immunes. If you can 3 spark IG barrage into a group it's pretty effective.

On the other hand, if you pull some **** like 3 spark IG then kill like 1 person in TW or waste that power on one shots it's pretty pathetic. Bonus loser points if you 3 spark IG and get stunned.

RankNine - Momaganon

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

^

That's terrible! Just like Asterelle!

its not terrible, its all about fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_teaIkUDQo

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

On the other hand, if you pull some **** like 3 spark IG then kill like 1 person in TW or waste that power on one shots it's pretty pathetic. Bonus loser points if you 3 spark IG and get stunned.

This is what I was referring to. Multiple times. Go to move. Lol.

Aeliah, love how you're trying to justify the above in a TW.

His gear is better than mine, full +12 whereas I'm +11 armour and +12 bow. Which I got myself, which I am proud of and definitely not jealous, but you don't know me so think what you like lol.

Peachies - Dreamweaver

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Heartz hasn't killed me in 1 v 1 situations, and I've killed him in situations where 3 or 4 other people are attacking me. I could offer him 1 v 1 and prove that my winning chances vs. him will be much higher.

You can lie all you want but I was squaded with him and I was watching, you killed him like once out of what 6 times that you tried to spark IG him, this is sort of pointless because none of the things you've said is true anyway lol

Cantabrum - Archosaur

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

its not terrible, its all about fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_teaIkUDQo

b:dirty so fun dirty dirty archer b:avoid

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Nahhh, Dark. You still don't get it. Your insinuated claim is 'archers who triple spark and ironguard are noob'.

My counter to that is, sometimes triple spark + ironguard/absolute domain is actually a very good thing to do, depending on the situation.

Courtesy of some fights out at west yesterday, and a couple hours fighting FlyRanger in group fights and 1vs1, I can once again say that he's a lot more dangerous than you when it comes to actually killing me. Considering how long he's been playing an archer, that is somewhat surprising, but its the honest truth.

That his tactics sometimes lead to him dying quickly when his gambles don't work is important to consider, of course, where longer fights require more kills per time. However, when killing a key enemy is more important than getting multiple kills on weak people, triple spark is not just a valid choice, its sometimes the best choice. If you don't understand this, then well...

Also, its just not all about refines. You have emperor tome---which provides massive boosts to dmg, crit, hp, and magic defense---Fly does not. You have r9rr NW-ed ring highly refined---he does not. You have g16 NW-ed neck that is ELEMENTAL defense highly refined... he has normal g16 PHYSICAL neck. It is no wonder that he takes more damage than you... you must have at least 5k more magic defense than him, plus more defense levels, even if your hp is somewhat lower. For the purposes of fighting any arcane class, your gear is significantly better.

Risk. You and Fly are really two sides to the same coin, in my view. Fly takes too many risks. You don't take enough.

The question is, then, who is most likely to improve: will the person used to risk taking start being more selective about when to take risks, or will the person who never takes risks find the gumption to take them now and then when the payout is high?

I wonder...

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lol. Alright then. Anyone that has seen my TW vids vs vex in the few fights you actually turned up will see how much of a complete nab of an archer you are.

Multiple times you stand in stealth alone, triple spark then IG and get facerolled. A complete and utter disgrace to archers all over. I practically farmed you in TWs. You play like you're an aps sin. Total fail.

Most account buyers learn the toon and class, you however are worse than even fc noobs. Feel free to point me to where in my video you wipe my entire squad alone. I dont edit any bits out, unlike your vids which are a pain to even watch and omg boa on a group and victory. Gtfo here lol.

You should stake me in a 1 v 1 if you feel that I'm such a noob. I'm more than confident that I'm better suited at killing archers than you are. what do you say? Wanna stake and record it?

Heartz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You should get out of your dreamworld. most r9rr archers is more skilled than you, and your acting like your on top of the world.

Dark is out of your league skillwise lol, if "you" wiped his squad, it's more than certain you wasn't alone.

Too bad you don't fall in that category of most. Remember that group pk at West the other day when your team outnumbered us heavily? I remember you being the first person I killed, before my squad was even attacking you. You're just too squishy, and you'll always be targeted first. I guess this is why you left early after you died almost instantly at the first two parts of the time you came. Oh and by the way, I extend my offer to stake you as well, if you feel up to the challenge.

Heartz Gets Facerolled

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

dsholder pls go

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You should stake me in a 1 v 1 if you feel that I'm such a noob.

Gladly lol. Contact me in game son.

NeonZephyr - Archosaur

Deity because YOLO
Serious o.o

Eoria - Harshlands

You should probably delete your post, Heartz.

Heartz - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

You should probably delete your post, Heartz.

like the gms dont know. and over 40% of all married toons. Atleast It's my own toon, not like Dsholder playing Flyranger. On forums they reply it's ban, in tickets it's msotly " do it on your own risk"
Plus i'm kinda sure it saves all deleted posts for gms to see.
But I suppose your right, at least saves some tickets from haters.

freygin

does per 1 attack level still give 1% more damage beyond 100 ?

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

freygin wrote: »

does per 1 attack level still give 1% more damage beyond 100 ?

not even close

freygin

does that happen after 100+ atk level , and below 100 it's still 1% ?

atk level and def level cancels each other, is it after 100 atk-level-difference or any 100+ atk level on char info.

for example
a. an archer has 120 atk level, target has 0 def level, the active atk level is 120
b. an archer has 120 atk level, target has 21 def level, the active atk level is 99
c. an archer has 120 atk level, target has 100 def level, the active atk level is 20

only (a) got less damage ? or a b c , since they're all 120 (more than 100)

Jarkhen - Archosaur

freygin wrote: »

does that happen after 100+ atk level , and below 100 it's still 1% ?

atk level and def level cancels each other, is it after 100 atk-level-difference or any 100+ atk level on char info.

for example
a. an archer has 120 atk level, target has 0 def level, the active atk level is 120
b. an archer has 120 atk level, target has 21 def level, the active atk level is 99
c. an archer has 120 atk level, target has 100 def level, the active atk level is 20

only (a) got less damage ? or a b c , since they're all 120 (more than 100)

The only time one additional attack level would give exactly 1% more damage is when attack and defense levels are equal.

If attacker's attack level >= defender's defense level:
damage dealt = damage delivered * (1 + ((attacker's attack level) - (defender's defense level) / 100))

Else:
damage dealt = damage delivered * (1 + 1.2 * ((defender's defense level) - (attacker's attack level) / 100))


So going from say 130 to 131 attack levels against a 50-def-level opponent would give (0.01/1.8) = 0.556% more damage.

freygin

for example,
an archer has 20.000 physical attack in his char info, it hits a target with 80% armor defense. The pvp damage is 1/4 from 20k = 5000, reduced 80% by armor defense equals to 1000

now we have damage delivered = 1000 (this is without atk lvl and defense lvl involved).

with 130 atk level and target 50 def level damage dealt will be = 1800
with 131 atk level and target 50 def level damage dealt will be = 1810

if we calculate the increase from 130 to 131 it will be (1810-1800)/1800 , then the increase from 130 to 131 is only 0.556% like you said.

but if we calculate it based on the initial damage delivered, 1 atk level still gives 1% from it. Per atk level worth 10 more damage from 1000 = 1%.

lol it's confusing.

opkossy

Long story short: Attack level is 1% base damage added as long as you have higher attack levels than their defense levels.

Doesn't matter if you have 1 attack level or 10000. Adding another 1 attack level is gonna give another 1% based on your damage without any.


... But even though that's a static increase, because 1% more of 100 isn't as big of a boost at 1300% as it would be at 110%, for example, we've somehow wound up with people calling it a diminishing return.

freygin

yes, that's what i am trying to say, atk rank still gives constant 1% more damage but based on a supposed damage without any atk/def level puts into the equation, no matter how many atk level we have.

I am more confused if the target has more defense level, haven't figured out how to imagine it clearly.

for atk level, it's easier to imagine that it goes through armor defense , like the example i post above, target has 80% armor defense the damage would be 20%, if the attacker has 80 atk level difference than target, then it's 1.8*20%=36% (36%*5000=1800) means the armor defense is reduced from 80% to 64% , this game has a max value of 90% armor defense, so the point of attack level is to reduce that defense as much as possible.

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver

I can still hit Rank 9 Blademasters for the same Damage I deal on level 1 clerics.

So there is some problems with having too many attack levels.

Jarkhen - Archosaur

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I can still hit Rank 9 Blademasters for the same Damage I deal on level 1 clerics.

So there is some problems with having too many attack levels.

... remind me how you have the ability to even turn your computer on?

freygin

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I can still hit Rank 9 Blademasters for the same Damage I deal on level 1 clerics.

So there is some problems with having too many attack levels.

lol, I don't think that's possible, a lv 1 cleric newly created has only 3 defense ( 0.072% damage reduction), there is no possible way to do that even with the barb unequipped all his armors.

Frighten - Dreamweaver

I crit on both of them 28k damage, the BM had physical marrow ( with rank 9 3rd cast gears), the lvl 1 cleric had nothing.

opkossy

Frighten - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I crit on both of them 28k damage, the BM had physical marrow ( with rank 9 3rd cast gears), the lvl 1 cleric had nothing.

... No amount of facepalm is enough for this.

Slewdem - Dreamweaver

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nahhh, Dark. You still don't get it. Your insinuated claim is 'archers who triple spark and ironguard are noob'.

My counter to that is, sometimes triple spark + ironguard/absolute domain is actually a very good thing to do, depending on the situation.

Courtesy of some fights out at west yesterday, and a couple hours fighting FlyRanger in group fights and 1vs1, I can once again say that he's a lot more dangerous than you when it comes to actually killing me. Considering how long he's been playing an archer, that is somewhat surprising, but its the honest truth.

That his tactics sometimes lead to him dying quickly when his gambles don't work is important to consider, of course, where longer fights require more kills per time. However, when killing a key enemy is more important than getting multiple kills on weak people, triple spark is not just a valid choice, its sometimes the best choice. If you don't understand this, then well...

Also, its just not all about refines. You have emperor tome---which provides massive boosts to dmg, crit, hp, and magic defense---Fly does not. You have r9rr NW-ed ring highly refined---he does not. You have g16 NW-ed neck that is ELEMENTAL defense highly refined... he has normal g16 PHYSICAL neck. It is no wonder that he takes more damage than you... you must have at least 5k more magic defense than him, plus more defense levels, even if your hp is somewhat lower. For the purposes of fighting any arcane class, your gear is significantly better.

Risk. You and Fly are really two sides to the same coin, in my view. Fly takes too many risks. You don't take enough.

The question is, then, who is most likely to improve: will the person used to risk taking start being more selective about when to take risks, or will the person who never takes risks find the gumption to take them now and then when the payout is high?

I wonder...

Ummm!! So a range class that trip sparks an auto attack from a distance hmmm.. the way i see it is that they be at max damage seeing that their crit rate is already high + purge will always be a good thing to do seeing they have the chance to actually get away..if you ask me it's like playing a spark sin..... spark fortify IG try to kill not sucessful genie still ready for ad and that skill that gives archer all sparks back and just run away... they have all type of escape route if spark IG fail to kill... Sins force stealth after Spark IG fail-archer stealth or maybe just leap far away the run till all cds an repeat same thing.. Don't really see the difference there i could be wrong.

Even the last group pvp i did with azzin cleric even him said i don't see how fly ranger is able to purge so much...welllllll so with you know his luck so high to purge with spark does that make him really good or just luck be on his side at those times it happened?

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Slewdem - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ummm!! So a range class that trip sparks an auto attack from a distance hmmm.. the way i see it is that they be at max damage seeing that their crit rate is already high + purge will always be a good thing to do seeing they have the chance to actually get away..if you ask me it's like playing a spark sin..... spark fortify IG try to kill not sucessful genie still ready for ad and that skill that gives archer all sparks back and just run away... they have all type of escape route if spark IG fail to kill... Sins force stealth after Spark IG fail-archer stealth or maybe just leap far away the run till all cds an repeat same thing.. Don't really see the difference there i could be wrong.

Even the last group pvp i did with azzin cleric even him said i don't see how fly ranger is able to purge so much...welllllll so with you know his luck so high to purge with spark does that make him really good or just luck be on his side at those times it happened?

I think its both tbh. His luck is good to begin with, and then because he triple sparks, he gets in more hits when it really counts (aka, the purges he gets from a triple spark are usually purges that lead to somebody's death).

With a 93/100, 130 magic genie for lots of cloud eruption, the 'lotsa triple spark' style can kinda actually work in some situations.