Plevel noobs

ovenusarmanio

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On Dreamweaver the cleric and barb are rarely blamed for things, unless the barb can't handle a pull. Most clerics on my server get a free pass on everything. My faction mates even complain about sins all day in their squads >.<.




You realize that aggro for sins normally only bounced when one sin is going for at least 7-15 secs unsprked and the other one is? Aggro bounce between a sin and BM normally means the bm is more highly refined than the sin. In that case the BM normally wins if they constantly spark+DD.

When I played my sin on DW, I had a very different experience. And found myself telling people to calm down and explaining went wrong way more often on the cleric or tanks' behalf. I find the same problem with lowbie stuff in HT. And i'm not the cleric on there either. IDK, I just rarely see DDs blamed. I have had to apologize for my own derps before when someone called the cleric failed when I was the one that messed up. And I know few sins who time their sparks with each other, unless everyone is all sparking at once and timing their debuffs. And a lot of bms play aggro pong with you but dont' do anything to fix it, but you can fix it yourself by amping their spark. The same is true for BMs, if they HF the sins spark typically the sin will tank even if they have about the same amount of total DD. There is also chill or taking off your blessing if you need to get rid of aggro. Although there is no reason to get rid of it, if you can handle it.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

In turn, I have never seen a cleric that actually bothered to acknowledge when they'd screwed up. I have never actually seen a DD that blamed the cleric if they died.

I personally did saw that a lot on my server, DD jumping in a group of mobs without AOE and than when they die they trash talk the cleric for not healing, while if the cleric did heal they would have both die or a sin with 3-4k hp jump on a mob get one shot and blame the cleric saying ''STUPID CLERIC YOU DIDN'T HEALED ME''...

As I saw clerics admit it was their fault if someone died. Bad clerics don't admit they suck, but a good cleric that do a mistake for w/e reason will admit it.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Joe - Morai wrote: »

xD and you are doing the same mistake you think I was doing all along. You don't know me, you just assume one can't be that good for being able to judge other ppls playing style. Call it ignorance, but after playing ALL Classes for nearly 5 years now and actually trying things out with ANY CLASS.

So yes I've been playing clerics for so friggin long now. But thats not all. I've not just played all those classes. I talked with so many different players, tbh with some of the best players of nearly any class. I listened to their opinions and compared them to mine and discussed my playing style ideas with them. There have been months where I havn't done anything but talking about this game and it's classes.

If someone can judge other ppls playing style then I, for one, can. It's not like this is rl and anyone can do different things to achieve their goals. Even there, if you analyze the personal situation of ppl you can tell them what they did good and what not and how they could improve their working methods.

This is a game working due to known mechanics. There is no..."well it worked, that's all that matter". There are ways where things would always work if those ways were followed accurately. That is the thing. There shouldn't be stuff like squad wipes, no matter the gear. If anyone would play "perfectly" then everything would be fine.

Don't try to tell me that this is illusory, it is! Humans are imperfect, they can't achieve perfectionism....BUT you can guess what would be "perfect". Sometimes it just doesn't matter if you can achieve a goal or not. But it does matter if you work hard to achieve your goal...why? simple because that you will improve. You won't get perfect, but you surely improve. And that is what I am fighting for.

If you just tell anyone that it's ok how they play then they will never improve, correct me, but that is a bad thing isn't it?

You are this kind of person that thinks he knows so many about others, but obviously you are the very thing you thought I am. Don't be so closed minded.

PS: Sorry for the long post, I could write for an eternity about topics like that xDD so I better stop here. (:

Funny because that is exactly how I am, which is why i can call you on your bs. You'll find that those who know the most are often the most stubborn, but the opposite can be said. Symantics really.

Miss_menace - Raging Tide

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

What cleric was this? You should be able to remember that name. Personally, I wouldn't dare do a full delta - Spawn Point or Normal - without utilizing BB. Too much needless strain and the Damage Reduction is useful. Delta, in my honest opinion, is a definite Regeneration Aura recommended instance for random and known squads.

Of course, know what to do when/if BB is canceled. But to go completely without it? Madness.

Edit: I'm also highly inclined to believe that because your squad wasn't "op", assuming gear was no more impressive than +5 TT99s, you were forced to either:

A) Do a normal delta where all of the auras were activated and draw all mobs back/close to the Eye.

Use a ton of Apoth/Crab meat for emergency cases where if BB was up, it would have been unnecessary.

Or

C) Died a ton during the run. Again, needless deaths.

My point being: there are definitely some cases where BB is a godsend and necessary skill.

It was spawn point, she was a DD as well as a healer, and of course it helps that her barb hubby did his job. And her name is Tessy on the RT server. You can't believe it because like many people, they are conditioned to think that without BB, everyone will die.

BTW, yes there were a couple instances where she did see the need to get the BB up when a wave was overwhelming the DDs... but took it down right away when it was finished. No one complained about apocs or anything... this is a group that runs delta together regularly. The cleric was much more beneficial as a 6th DD to finish waves faster and relax in between. She's a smart cleric and I would squad with her any day.

No one died... honest. I am just as amazed as you are, except... i was there.

Such unbelievers. But I can understand if you've never seen delta without a BB. The day that you do, you will be a believer like me.

Thrieya - Lost City

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I personally did saw that a lot on my server, DD jumping in a group of mobs without AOE and than when they die they trash talk the cleric for not healing, while if the cleric did heal they would have both die or a sin with 3-4k hp jump on a mob get one shot and blame the cleric saying ''STUPID CLERIC YOU DIDN'T HEALED ME''...

As I saw clerics admit it was their fault if someone died. Bad clerics don't admit they suck, but a good cleric that do a mistake for w/e reason will admit it.

Maybe it's a server difference, I'm not sure. However, I know that having played a wizard for 4 years going on 5 now, I have always made it a point to AoE mobs and snatch aggro to save the clerics. That was how I was always taught in Frost. I once saw a tank die in a pull, and then the mobs abandoned his corpse to head right for the cleric. I opened zhen, took aggro, and died, but the few seconds it took for the mobs to kill me allowed the cleric to get BB up and save the rest of the DDs, who killed the mobs.

I didn't blame the cleric for my death, because I knew what would happen the moment I opened zhen and knew I wasn't going to survive that. I'm not, and will never be in the habit of blaming a cleric for my own mistakes. But for whatever reason, I run into a lot of clerics who seem to think they're wizards, and cause way too many squad wipes because of this mentality.

Joe - Morai

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Funny because that is exactly how I am, which is why i can call you on your bs. You'll find that those who know the most are often the most stubborn, but the opposite can be said. Symantics really.

Ultimately if we would have some things in common we would be unable to accept it. People like that have a hard time to accept that there might be others that are on the same level.

There is a huge difference between knowing whats right and doing whats right. Thats the human curse. I know that I can see if something is done right or wrong. I admit that I can't be perfect, how can I, I'm just a human like anyone else.

Like I said before, it's about the quest for being perfect that helps us improve. A human without a goal is already dead and to prevent that...why not try to achieve the ultimate goal?

It all goes down to the big topic about the sense in life...but I won't bore anyone here with stuff like that.

You should know that it's not all BS that I am writing and that one can comprehend if they just think about it long enough.

Miss_menace - Raging Tide

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On Dreamweaver the cleric and barb are rarely blamed for things, unless the barb can't handle a pull. Most clerics on my server get a free pass on everything. My faction mates even complain about sins all day in their squads >.<..

WTB Dion's PWI life. Damn, that must be nice.

On a different note, as a cleric, im definintely far from perfect. I'm still trying to adjust to the massive loss of channeling as i upgrade my gear. I often have brain freeze and have "oh ****" moments. It's like everyone else.

But what I'm saying is... I think I've moved past the "cleric just put up BB" stage. I continue to hone and enhance my knowledge of what my skills are capable of. And I am reaping the benefits in spades now that the new high level instances won't let you BB anymore... and PWI is smart to force clerics to be a true squad healer and not take the easy way out. IH is amazing... its a "buy you time" heal where you can cast a couple on the tank, so you can turn and respond and take care of someone else's out of control HP.

I ran with another cleric today in weekly aba -- and she was one of those "omg panic! i better BB" type of clerics. And if you know about the new abaddon instance, you know that BB's wont stay up. And no matter how hard she tried on bosses to get it back up, it would be down in seconds. I coulda really honestly used her to help me purify and IH some of the more aggro-proned players because honestly, I felt like I was on my own while she wasted all her time trying to figure out how to get her BB back up everytime it went down. So fail.

And on a side note: Ten-player squads definintely force me to rethink when i use the BB now... i probably have uped the number of times I feel I have to use it simply because there's way too many HP bars to manage at a time. Really sucks when BB won't stay up anymore... IJSing haha. But no worries... practice makes perfect. I'm getting the hang of it!b:victory

Malei - Sanctuary

Miss_menace - Raging Tide wrote: »

IYou can't believe it because like many people, they are conditioned to think that without BB, everyone will die.

BTW, yes there were a couple instances where she did see the need to get the BB up when a wave was overwhelming the DDs... but took it down right away when it was finished.

Such unbelievers. But I can understand if you've never seen delta without a BB. The day that you do, you will be a believer like me.

You just cracked your own point. There's a difference between "never using BB" and "only using BB for the overwhelming parts." My point is: BB is still necessary in Delta, regardless if the cleric keeps it up the entire run or takes it down. And if my squad is under-geared for Spawn Point, you'd better believe I'm going to do them a service by keeping the BB up during as much as the waves' damage would go, dropping it only when I feel the mobs have eased up enough to priority heal those who BB could not help as well, and leave the DD up to the actual DDs.

People aren't adding the clerics to delta to be a "Sixth DD", they're adding them to be clerics and keep them alive by any means necessary. Preferably, the easiest method. And regardless of how you feel, in some instances, BB is that easy and necessary method for everyone involved, not just you. I wouldn't want to run with half of the clerics in this thread because of how spiteful they seem to be, as well as having their own elitist attitude about how they feel they are required to heal in their own way and everyone else should shut up and merely deal with it - or get a 'noob' cleric.

Its just as bad as the noob clerics themselves.

This is not to poke a hole in your "there are more heals than BB" arguement though. As a cleric that's played since 2008, I wholly agree with the idea that in some situations, BB is considered a cop out and an unnecessary demand for those who don't' know better. But I won't knock it as well.

Miss_menace - Raging Tide

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

You just cracked your own point. There's a difference between "never using BB" and "only using BB for the overwhelming parts." My point is: BB is still necessary in Delta, regardless if the cleric keeps it up the entire run or takes it down. And if my squad is under-geared for Spawn Point, you'd better believe I'm going to do them a service by keeping the BB up during as much as the waves' damage would go, dropping it only when I feel the mobs have eased up enough to priority heal those who BB could not help as well, and leave the DD up to the actual DDs.

People aren't adding the clerics to delta to be a "Sixth DD", they're adding them to be clerics and keep them alive by any means necessary. Preferably, the easiest method. And regardless of how you feel, in some instances, BB is that easy and necessary method for everyone involved, not just you. I wouldn't want to run with half of the clerics in this thread because of how spiteful they seem to be, as well as having their own elitist attitude about how they feel they are required to heal and everyone else should shut up and merely deal with it - or get a 'noob' cleric.

Its just as bad as the noob clerics themselves.

This is not to poke a hole in your "there are more heals than BB" arguement though. As a cleric that's played since 2008, I wholly agree with the idea that in some situations, BB is considered a cop out and an unnecessary demand for those who don't' know better. But I won't knock it as well.

MY POINT is, not that delta doenst need a BB. It's that it's more beneficial to have the cleric out of BB most of the time.

You seem to think that she didn't BB the entire time because she was trying prove a point. She didn't BB because IT WAS UNNECESSARY!!!!!! In fact, the regular full delta squads that i run with, the real pro ones... we scoff when we see a BB. I dunno where you guys are in your server, but 90% BBing cleric is becoming a sign of a noob cleric where I play.

Yes you can take ONE LITTLE line in my point and not try to read through what I'm trying to say... pick at it all you want. In the end, if you want a cleric that BBs 90% of the way through delta... be my guest. I think my squads have way more fun... including the cleric. And we can afford to do that because we all know what we're doing.

I won't rain on your parade. If you want a BB cleric... be my guest. But keep me off your FL... cuz you're not getting that from me. I'll BB when i have to.

Miss_menace - Raging Tide

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is not to poke a hole in your "there are more heals than BB" arguement though. As a cleric that's played since 2008, I wholly agree with the idea that in some situations, BB is considered a cop out and an unnecessary demand for those who don't' know better. But I won't knock it as well.

I should acknowledge your words of wisdom here tho....

And I want to add that I can't go through an entire full delta at spawn point without at least BBing for the last couple of stages. I'm just not that good yet. Which is why I'm so impressed with Tessy. She's what we should be aiming towards. Heal when you need to... and help out with the kills. Like i said our DDs were weak... it was better that she DD with us.

Thrieya - Lost City

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

People aren't adding the clerics to delta to be a "Sixth DD", they're adding them to be clerics and keep them alive by any means necessary. Preferably, the easiest method. And regardless of how you feel, in some instances, BB is that easy and necessary method for everyone involved, not just you. I wouldn't want to run with half of the clerics in this thread because of how spiteful they seem to be, as well as having their own elitist attitude about how they feel they are required to heal in their own way and everyone else should shut up and merely deal with it - or get a 'noob' cleric.

Its just as bad as the noob clerics themselves.

Sweetiebot, please give Malei of Sanctuary 5 points for winning the Congressional Medal of Right.

Malei - Sanctuary

Miss_menace - Raging Tide wrote: »

MY POINT is, not that delta doenst need a BB. It's that it's more beneficial to have the cleric out of BB most of the time.

You seem to think that she didn't BB the entire time because she was trying prove a point. She didn't BB because IT WAS UNNECESSARY!!!!!! In fact, the regular full delta squads that i run with, the real pro ones... we scoff when we see a BB. I dunno where you guys are in your server, but 90% BBing cleric is becoming a sign of a noob cleric where I play.

Yes you can take ONE LITTLE line in my point and not try to read through what I'm trying to say... pick at it all you want. In the end, if you want a cleric that BBs 90% of the way through delta... be my guest. I think my squads have way more fun... including the cleric. And we can afford to do that because we all know what we're doing.

I won't rain on your parade. If you want a BB cleric... be my guest. But keep me off your FL... cuz you're not getting that from me. I'll BB when i have to.

Relax. You used an example of Delta as per to say that its one of the places where "BB is unnecessary - I know a pro cleric that can heal completely through it without the use and none of us were OP or anything!!!" And I was just politely disagreeing with you because there are instances and dungeons [ Delta being an example ] where Regeneration Aura is actually a better tool than to try and be 'pro' and use anything else - in overall costs, in damage reduction, in saving charms/apoth.

"We scoff when we see a BB." I really am concerned about Raging Tides if anyone scoffs at good clerics doing what they can to keep you alive, no matter what the heal is. "BB is the sign of a noob cleric." I thought Blessing of the Purehearted was the most noob sign, but times do change as the years go by. . .

I agree with most of your points made here, but the Delta example just made me record scratch. This is coming from an 'old school' cleric who owns three additional clerics on three different servers at various levels. [ I love the class, can't help it. ] So believe me when I know where you're coming from. I just know that being a bigot won't help the cause either. There are bad clerics and good clerics, and sometimes those 'good' clerics need to be knocked off of a pedestal if they're maintaining attitudes as such.

Sweetiebot, Malei - Sanctuary is my forum ID. This is the first chara I ever had b:sad

Thrieya - Lost City

Sweetiebot, all right, let's try for another baby.

Sweetiebot, give 10 points to Malei - Sanctuary for typing everything I'm too lazy to type.

SweetieBot - Lothranis

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

Sweetiebot, all right, let's try for another baby.

Another what?

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

Sweetiebot, give 10 points to Malei - Sanctuary for typing everything I'm too lazy to type.

Thrieya - Lost City awards 10 points to Malei - Sanctuary!
Malei - Sanctuary is now in 8th place for July 2013 with 10 points (10 points overall).
Thrieya - Lost City can still award another 20 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

ovenusarmanio

Cleaned up some posts from Sweetie. >:D So nice to see some Karma being awarded again, not so nice to see Sweetie fail or people using it as an excuse to derail things by chatting with her. So um, please don't. K thanks.

BungaSakura - Raging Tide

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

While I have CE on my genie I raaaaarreeellly use it. Only BB need's chi for healings. And I'd rather have Holy Path to keep up with the pullers than be ready to BB when BB is not needed the majority of the time it is used. Big full pulls in WS? Okay you MIGHT need to BB in Metal especially. Pull of Fire? Don't' BB it's gonna get interrupted just AoE heal and while is in CD use other heals and skills to save the party. I'm sorry but saying its a waste of a cleric to now have CE is stupid. A REAL cleric knows how to heal in any situation.

EDIT: As for not waiting if your cleric is ready.... That one is on YOU. If I say "one sec Chi or Genie on CD" and you roll on into the throes of danger I am NOT chasing you. I am going to wait and watch as you die or use up all your own resources to stay alive. Playing in a team is a team effort, I don't have to waste my resources healing you if you don't have the common courtesy to wait if I ask for a second to get ready for the next pull.

i agree with you completely. the problem of using CE is that CE cost alot of energy which makes cleric cant use holi path right away. the problem of some ppl in bh is mostly they dont wanna wait cleric while they ask to wait. and for apothecary, i think its just too much for using apoth all the time just for BH. i always ready apoth but that is for TW oriented not for pve such as BH. cleric is slow on running, so most part cleric need holipath ready if ppl want to rush.waiting for 10 seconds is no harm, unless u know from the beginning u dont need heal at all.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Miss_menace - Raging Tide wrote: »

MY POINT is, not that delta doenst need a BB. It's that it's more beneficial to have the cleric out of BB most of the time.

It depend on the squad, all squads are different, in some squads BB is not needed at all, in some squads it's just needed later on and on some squads it's needed all the time.

You seem to think that she didn't BB the entire time because she was trying prove a point. She didn't BB because IT WAS UNNECESSARY!!!!!! In fact, the regular full delta squads that i run with, the real pro ones... we scoff when we see a BB. I dunno where you guys are in your server, but 90% BBing cleric is becoming a sign of a noob cleric where I play.

There's 6 people in the squad, she is maybe good, but the entire squad was probably good too to be able to do it, it's a team work. So again, in some squads she could do it without BB while in other squads maybe she would need to BB.

It's not only on the talent of the cleric, but of the squad overall. The greatest cleric woud not be able to do anything if the rest of the squad suck.

Yes you can take ONE LITTLE line in my point and not try to read through what I'm trying to say... pick at it all you want. In the end, if you want a cleric that BBs 90% of the way through delta... be my guest. I think my squads have way more fun... including the cleric. And we can afford to do that because we all know what we're doing.

Yes people consider clerics that BB as fails, but clerics that BB where it's not needed, where BB is needed it's needed, I've done probably a thousand full warsong and did run with the most OP people that didn't change that good cleric or not BB was needed at the last boss.

I won't rain on your parade. If you want a BB cleric... be my guest. But keep me off your FL... cuz you're not getting that from me. I'll BB when i have to.

Answers in that color, I was to lazy to quote each thing.

People call clerics fails when they BB where back in time we didn't BB, like in BH59/79/89, back in time we never did put BB there and today people in the squad ask the cleric to BB, so yes that's fail if the cleric cannot do it without BB, cause we did it back in time with worse gears than what people use today.

But GV/RB/Delta clerics always used BB, it wasn't even a question it was needed, so people continue like that by habit, some people are just scare to try it without BB or just don't even think about it. Some squad will ask/force the cleric to set BB and in some case it's maybe better for the cleric to set it especially in a random squad, cause as I said earlier, even if the cleric is great if the rest of the squad suck it could end in a squad wipe and after that good luck for the cleric to don't get blame for the squad wipe. You will have 5 people that think you fail as cleric and that you should have BB, so what you gonna do? Try to convince 5 people that they all suck and it was only their fault and not yours? A squad wipe in that instance, if there was no BB, people won't go check far who's fault it was.

It's not about the instance in GV/RB/Delta, it's about the squad more than anything. I saw ''dream'' squads of cleric/tank/DD fail to finish the bh wave 2 while I saw crazy squads of 5 clerics and a mystic do the wave 3 easier than the typical normal squad with cleric/tank/DD and it wasn't cause of the gears, but on how people was competent in the squad.

Lonchot - Heavens Tear

Didnt he say he was pulling fire? Why would u put BB or Vortex there lol, 2 much interrumpts xD

b:shutupb:shutup

Haila - Sanctuary

Miss_menace - Raging Tide wrote: »

It was spawn point, she was a DD as well as a healer, and of course it helps that her barb hubby did his job. And her name is Tessy on the RT server. You can't believe it because like many people, they are conditioned to think that without BB, everyone will die.

BTW, yes there were a couple instances where she did see the need to get the BB up when a wave was overwhelming the DDs... but took it down right away when it was finished. No one complained about apocs or anything... this is a group that runs delta together regularly. The cleric was much more beneficial as a 6th DD to finish waves faster and relax in between. She's a smart cleric and I would squad with her any day.

No one died... honest. I am just as amazed as you are, except... i was there.

Such unbelievers. But I can understand if you've never seen delta without a BB. The day that you do, you will be a believer like me.

I have clerics myself with different builds and i call myself a bad cleric. I have done delta without BB also with some friends on cleric a few years ago. And when a cleric dc'ed in stage 7 or something and never came back, we managed to complete it without cleric.
I am not saying your cleric friend is not good, but it realy is about team work.

But when you are in a random squad and dont know anything about them, its recommended to BB XD

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

Sorry i'm no noob cleric just cause i use BB. It's just me. I admit i'm somewhat lazy to b:chuckle

I can play my cleric just fine for the most part. Usually in BB or i party heal. I know where to BB and when not to.

Colum - Raging Tide

Seems this discussion has awaken a lot of thoughts and opinions, which is of course very interesting and actually good for the PWI community - it's time to think our own playstyles on a deeper level!

I thought to share my opinion as well. My cleric leveled recently to 100 and has not the best gear but I have played him for a long time and worked a lot in squads. My cleric "has seen it all" - he has done everything except TW and AEU. Of course there is also a barb view in my opinions a it is my main character.

I apologize the grammar errors and "simple" english as it's not my native language. I do try my best.

1) Powerleveling vs Veterans

These both can cause harm to the community. Some of the powerlevelers decide to take the way of not learning their toons, CSing r9 (or not CSing r9 and getting into trouble with gears) and claiming they know the game. They usually have elitist attitude and they are used to do things alone.

Those who solo grind and never go into dungeons are very similar. They might know their own class well but some of them never improve their gear, never see how OTHER classes work and never want to take the advice from other players.

My faction does not powerlevel anyone that steps into it. You may go in FC from lvl 1 and not learn your toon if you wish but my faction won't do it for them. I also make it clear that I appreciate it when people listen to advice. I tell them if they end up non-skilled, it'll be their own problem. Usually powerlevelers leave pretty fast (at least the newbie ones) while the more experienced powerlevelers do stay and find it good I have such "harsh" attitude towards fast leveling when starting PWI.

My faction does a lot of dungeons and stuff together so I haven't faced the solo grinder type much. Those are usually rather factionless anyway.

2) Cloud Eruption

I don't see why any class SHOULD have a certain skill on their genie.

My barbarian has AD, ToP, Solid Shield, True Emptiness, Tangling Mire and Occult Ice on his main genie. I do not use holy path in pulls and I do not find the need for CE because I can build chi relatively fast and even do it while pulling. I am a demon barb. I rarely ever use chi apoth and I always have at least over 2 sparks when succesfully tanking and devouring a boss.

My cleric does have CE on his genie while he also has ToP, expel, AD and holy path. I honestly use CE only much in Lunar. Otherwise I want to save genie energy for Holy Path/AD. I build chi with vanguard spirit and my cleric is demon. When BB drops, I usually manage to heal the squad by other ways. I prefer other heals over BB.

3) BB.

I dont use it very much, honestly. All BHs from 29 to 89 can be easily healed without BB just with the wise use of IH, keep looking when boss turns at someone else etc.

In FC I stopped mostly BBing at pulls at 90+. I just IHd main DDs. If squad had squishy casters as main DDs I set BB up, however.

In TTs... I prefer IH over BB on almost all bosses. With the ones that have increasing AOE damage BB is good, though. On my barb I also rather have IH stack on me or the tanking sin. I can support the sin on my barb by frighten and devour. Squishy sins hardly get aggro from my barb and if they do, they do deserve to die as well because these sins are the type that have neglected their armor and refined their weapon.

Warsong.. Why BB? On metal pull it's nice... otherwise I don't see a must for it unless the tanking sin really needs it. In fire keeping BB up is pointless and also CHB is pretty pointless - IH is the best help to main DDs.

Delta is so easy you hould be fine without BB for the first few waves at least.

New Aba/SOT I'm not experienced enough to go through all bosses whether BB is needed or not.

In Lunar it depends. For pulls BB is quite helpful especially as I tend to do full pulls but people with good gears can handle it with IH stack as well. BB is nice on the Blink boss, on vile I prefer IH stack on tank because BB goes down anyway. HQ... doesnt matter. On Primal Fear it doesnt matter much either but if you try to BB vile, it's hard to keep up all the time without chi aids.

Just my thoughts.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Seems this discussion has awaken a lot of thoughts and opinions, which is of course very interesting and actually good for the PWI community - it's time to think our own playstyles on a deeper level!

I thought to share my opinion as well. My cleric leveled recently to 100 and has not the best gear but I have played him for a long time and worked a lot in squads. My cleric "has seen it all" - he has done everything except TW and AEU. Of course there is also a barb view in my opinions a it is my main character.

I apologize the grammar errors and "simple" english as it's not my native language. I do try my best.

1) Powerleveling vs Veterans

These both can cause harm to the community. Some of the powerlevelers decide to take the way of not learning their toons, CSing r9 (or not CSing r9 and getting into trouble with gears) and claiming they know the game. They usually have elitist attitude and they are used to do things alone.

Those who solo grind and never go into dungeons are very similar. They might know their own class well but some of them never improve their gear, never see how OTHER classes work and never want to take the advice from other players.

My faction does not powerlevel anyone that steps into it. You may go in FC from lvl 1 and not learn your toon if you wish but my faction won't do it for them. I also make it clear that I appreciate it when people listen to advice. I tell them if they end up non-skilled, it'll be their own problem. Usually powerlevelers leave pretty fast (at least the newbie ones) while the more experienced powerlevelers do stay and find it good I have such "harsh" attitude towards fast leveling when starting PWI.

My faction does a lot of dungeons and stuff together so I haven't faced the solo grinder type much. Those are usually rather factionless anyway.

2) Cloud Eruption

I don't see why any class SHOULD have a certain skill on their genie.

My barbarian has AD, ToP, Solid Shield, True Emptiness, Tangling Mire and Occult Ice on his main genie. I do not use holy path in pulls and I do not find the need for CE because I can build chi relatively fast and even do it while pulling. I am a demon barb. I rarely ever use chi apoth and I always have at least over 2 sparks when succesfully tanking and devouring a boss.

My cleric does have CE on his genie while he also has ToP, expel, AD and holy path. I honestly use CE only much in Lunar. Otherwise I want to save genie energy for Holy Path/AD. I build chi with vanguard spirit and my cleric is demon. When BB drops, I usually manage to heal the squad by other ways. I prefer other heals over BB.

3) BB.

I dont use it very much, honestly. All BHs from 29 to 89 can be easily healed without BB just with the wise use of IH, keep looking when boss turns at someone else etc.

In FC I stopped mostly BBing at pulls at 90+. I just IHd main DDs. If squad had squishy casters as main DDs I set BB up, however.

In TTs... I prefer IH over BB on almost all bosses. With the ones that have increasing AOE damage BB is good, though. On my barb I also rather have IH stack on me or the tanking sin. I can support the sin on my barb by frighten and devour. Squishy sins hardly get aggro from my barb and if they do, they do deserve to die as well because these sins are the type that have neglected their armor and refined their weapon.

Warsong.. Why BB? On metal pull it's nice... otherwise I don't see a must for it unless the tanking sin really needs it. In fire keeping BB up is pointless and also CHB is pretty pointless - IH is the best help to main DDs.

Delta is so easy you hould be fine without BB for the first few waves at least.

New Aba/SOT I'm not experienced enough to go through all bosses whether BB is needed or not.

In Lunar it depends. For pulls BB is quite helpful especially as I tend to do full pulls but people with good gears can handle it with IH stack as well. BB is nice on the Blink boss, on vile I prefer IH stack on tank because BB goes down anyway. HQ... doesnt matter. On Primal Fear it doesnt matter much either but if you try to BB vile, it's hard to keep up all the time without chi aids.

Just my thoughts.

I have to agree with a lot said here. I was always that solo grind player, and many factions don't help their members when they actually need it. Hell i spent 70% of the time in the game alone for 4 years until I jioned Vex (my TW fac). I still solo grind, but they taught me how to do all the endgames instances seeing as my sin was my first lv100 toon, and is still the only one.