VOTE: Get rid of ARC and get our downloads back

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

So no one has cracked the password yet?

Or is no one trying?

I'd love to see someone manage it.

opkossy

I'm guessing the latter.

Due to the lack of people with the skill, inclination, and spare time actually using the system.

Sorry, sir! You're the best the forum gets to have! b:chuckle

Viktorian - Archosaur

i would try if i knew wat i was supposed to be doing

ovenusarmanio

Viktorian - Archosaur wrote: »

i would try if i knew wat i was supposed to be doing

^
This, I'd have no clue where to even begin. xD

Salari - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

So no one has cracked the password yet?

Or is no one trying?

I'd love to see someone manage it.

looks like a digest, at that length it would be improbable for any general user to crack that in a feasible time period even if you gave out how many letters your password is.

After running that hash through several identifier programs and online services it is probably a **** up digest algorithm or one that has been altered. Only way to find out is to rce the arc exe to find out what routines it is using.

It very well could be the product of several routines put together and not just "one digest" of that length.

Another note, there are several patterns in that digest that makes me think its just some **** work and has a lot of weeknesses.

Another note#2. If this is actual encryption and not a digest(even homemade), that is even more reason not to use arc, reverse engineering that encryption is just a matter or disassembling the arc client and locating the routine. You don't even have to identity what type of encryption it is. All you do is yank out the routine that creates the "encrypted password" and just reverse the process. it does take time to do this and identify the routine.

This is a very simple example of doing this, but at the same time it depends if the routine uses outside param's (server side) or not.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

I think it's a java-based AES encryption using octet data, I just need to figure out how many bits it is and work up a decoding algorithm. If only I had more spare time....

Viktorian - Archosaur

sylen
u need a hobby
i recommend fishing

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Viktorian - Archosaur wrote: »

sylen
u need a hobby
i recommend fishing

LOL I have several hobbies.

Modding cars (both performance, and detailing/customization)
Building PC's
Love tinkering with my Private server (which is not available to the public)
And games, lots of games. Both local, LAN, and MMO's

Salari - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think it's a java-based AES encryption using octet data, I just need to figure out how many bits it is and work up a decoding algorithm. If only I had more spare time....

its 512 bit

STrickeeN - Harshlands

"That would be correct. they've finally updated the main download version.

I have now updated the link in that post, and just for reference, here it is."

that link which version is of the game? do i need any password to unlock it?.. plz need help

GenesisRocks - Raging Tide

Other than the fact you may have to re download pwi I don't see an apparent problem with ARC. I doesn't make my game glitch or lag. As far as storing login information, why is that a problem? PWE already has our login information stored on their servers (you wouldn't be able to login to the game if they didn't).

What I do feel uncomfortable with is any personal finance information being stored in a public cloud. As far as I know ARC doesn't do this. So what's the problem?

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

STrickeeN - Harshlands wrote: »

"That would be correct. they've finally updated the main download version.

I have now updated the link in that post, and just for reference, here it is."

that link which version is of the game? do i need any password to unlock it?.. plz need help

That link is probably old now. I was going to check it later tonight when I get home to see if there's a new full-client version.

Edit: That link is still the current one available. I'll update that as soon as they put a new one out.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Just wanted to make a note, Arc updated last night for me, and the download for the main client files still hasn't changed.

BriarFoxy - Raging Tide

I like the idea of being able to download the game directly but also I like to use ARC as it is a cleaner way to view game info and a quick way to start the game on a specified account.

natamina

yes arc should be optional, considering i have played their games for a few years, recently i took a break from them and uninstalled everything well now when i try to download arc its bugged and dont work right so i cant even go back to playing fw or pw or what ever because arc will not work even when i used the repair option. so they should GET RID OF ARC!! or at the very least make it optional

motherhen

just came back to the game after 8mth hols lol so oh jeez as much as i anticipated downloading and logging on sure to be sure was never going to be easy.....disturbing to those who never get to try it because of the issues but sigh alas what now i ask?? want to continue on but seems i cant as it wont download with no error,read reread over and over try this that and the other...does the other even work no sigh.............8mths 1 new comp later i camt play my pwi lol ugh and so the story goes sigh.....

isakongming

I have just been told that ARC will be mandatory after beta.

PWI has lost me as a customer. I was about to take advantage of the ZEN sale today but will not. I will never install ARC period. I don't care what you can do with it, don't care about security issues either.

I will not install bloatware so I can start another piece of software, the ONLY reason why I use Steam is that they provide the service for the ENTIRE GAME INDUSTRY where you can buy any game from so many companies plus offer great sales on so many games.

ARC, provides NOTHING that isn't already provided by a better service. If you think the future of the industry is that every company has their own mass social media bloatware, you are kidding yourselves.

A smart company doesn't force a change like this not knowing if it will be excepted or not, they make it OPTIONAL, give people an actual reason to want to use it and still don't make it mandatory. WTF for when Steam already has your client!

Chrisssss - Sanctuary

My 2 cents worth, I'm fine with arch in general but can understand the security concerns there a lot of money players put in this game. Only real complaint I have is the DQ system not being a feature currently imo that was just down right dirty to take away something that ligitly helps demon/sage cards. Who knows I'm guessing Arc is still in the works, as far as paying customer they've lost me along time when you consider 100 gold = $ 100 USD and for something like MOG it's like 25 gold when u need 8 for r9. If pwi decides one day to make it like 1,000 gold for $100 USD then I come back as a paying cusomer but for not NTY.

azureblu

I'm sorry I really don' know where to post this. but PWI I just want to say, you ruined your site by adding ARC. It rendered everything useless and navigable.

I won't be buying Zen because I can't get into anything without installing ARC which I didn't want on my computer!

Big mistake PWI!! Fix it!

grnr059

Here is my opinion.
Arc will never be installed on my computer or any program like it, as it has no use for me. Im here for PW and not for extra programs that come along with that.

More programs on my computer means a bigger registry just to start with, which means a slower computer, even if just a little bit...
But as having read already Arc seems to do quite a bit more then being a harmles small no issues program. Keeping my login info stored... really... at what part would i start to be interested in that.
Adding stuff to my internet browser... seriously... im here for a game, not to possible make my browser slower, what gives them the idea i want them messing around with my browser in the 1st place. well i could go on like this, but whats the use.
Gues no comming back to PW for me.


b:angry

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

grnr059 wrote: »

Here is my opinion.
Arc will never be installed on my computer or any program like it, as it has no use for me. Im here for PW and not for extra programs that come along with that.

More programs on my computer means a bigger registry just to start with, which means a slower computer, even if just a little bit...
But as having read already Arc seems to do quite a bit more then being a harmles small no issues program. Keeping my login info stored... really... at what part would i start to be interested in that.
Adding stuff to my internet browser... seriously... im here for a game, not to possible make my browser slower, what gives them the idea i want them messing around with my browser in the 1st place. well i could go on like this, but whats the use.
Gues no comming back to PW for me.


b:angry

If your PC is old enough that you can't run a 30MB program, and a few lines of code in the registry slow it down, you're way past time for a new PC.

Sizzer - Raging Tide

That P.C needs to be stored in museum as it is a antic piece. b:chuckle

grnr059

SylenThunder:
If your PC is old enough that you can't run a 30MB program, and a few lines of code in the registry slow it down, you're way past time for a new PC.

Sizzer
That P.C needs to be stored in museum as it is a antic piece.

Were did you get that 1 of my 3 computers is old? I did not say or refer to that.
I did say that ii dont want extra programs on my computer making it slower, EVEN if just a little bit. And i will explain for the kids here, i have no use for that program, and for that i simply dont want it on my computer, i humbly hope i can get your approval for this.
If your having a bad day and feel like giving non related, repellent comments, to people, then be so kind to skip on my post for that.

Little sidenote here, A 5 mb virus can entirely crash or mesh up a computer. The size of a program does not necessarily state how much of a hazard a program can be to your computer.

Sparafucile - Harshlands

An extra registry entry adds what, a few microseconds to your boot time, unlikely you would notice that.

If the running of ARC causes your game to be so laggy as to be unusable, there is likely another issue there; I use it to play STO on my 6 year old, very basic spec pc, and there are no problems that I have noticed, the game runs as it did when I used it without ARC.

Sylen is looking into the issue of login details being stored, I suspect he will find that security around that is as good or better as them being stored on your own pc anyway, but we will see...

The only real issue imo is the fact that they intend to make it mandatory; though I have had no problems, other people prefer to use other methods to access pwi and its updates, and tbh I can't see why pwe would want to insist they use ARC. It brings no real benefits as far as revenue is concerned that I can see, just alienates a sizable section of the player base

grnr059

Ok let me get this part out of the way, I have no issues with my computers being slow at all, i would even say that my computers are quite strong. Each of my computers are more then able to run PW on high graphic settings without slowing down and running other programs in the background aswell at the same time.

As i have said in my 1st post, Arc will never be installed on my computer. Meaning it has not been installed on my computer ever. But Arc adds more then just a couple of registry lines. Otherwise it could not make those changes to the browsers we use aswell, and that is only for what we have been told so far in this thread.
Just for a note on this, Arc does not tell us that our browsers will be modified or does it give a option for this, if we dont want that. Yes i tryed that much of the install, and cancelled it before installing started, just to see what was possible.

Still thats not my main issue. My opinion is, i simply have no need or interest in having the program Arc on my computer, as i said with this line below before.

my first post quote:
Arc will never be installed on my computer or any program like it, as it has no use for me. Im here for PW and not for extra programs that come along with that.

But a well formulated reply with usefull info in it Sparafucile

Sparafucile - Harshlands

grnr059 wrote: »

Just for a note on this, Arc does not tell us that our browsers will be modified or does it give a option for this, if we dont want that. Yes i tryed that much of the install, and cancelled it before installing started, just to see what was possible.

I didn't know it modifies any of my browsers? Can you be more specific, as I haven't noticed any change (except for the plugin, which is easily disabled if you want to)

ovenusarmanio

Man, wall of text incoming!

Sparafucile - Harshlands wrote: »

The only real issue imo is the fact that they intend to make it mandatory; though I have had no problems, other people prefer to use other methods to access pwi and its updates, and tbh I can't see why pwe would want to insist they use ARC. It brings no real benefits as far as revenue is concerned that I can see, just alienates a sizable section of the player base

Firstly, I'm not pro arc being forced as a launcher by any means. I don't like it. But I don't think the above is true and my decision to continue playing or not is going to be based on all the facts as I know them, not just the ones from my perspective or convenient to my argument. Because it just goes against my life perspective and personality type. I like to take all the facts from a situation, on both sides, and make a logical decision based on what I believe to be best. It's in that context that I make this post.

They HAD to distance themselves from Pando, which is something people forget. They could no longer offer their previous download method and had long ago decided that directly downloading without some kind of program was not an option for them for whatever reason. Many of the people who are complaining about needing to install arc first to install PWI, used pando media booster without any complaint at all. And PWI had been using Pando Media Booster for years and years. I do remember when they offered CDs and such, but that had been not been the case for a long time. In fact, I'm wiling to bet the vast majority of people who downloaded PWI did so through an unnecessary program that was not needed to run the game once the install was finished. The fact that pando didn't get this level of hate, but arc does, is kind of amazing when you think about it from that perspective. Pando was poorly run bloatware that was easy to overlook and have steal bandwith from your computer. I remember a lot of people in the tech support forum back in the old days, didn't even realize they had it installed. Pando was frankly garbage, and Arc is superior to it in every way, shape. At least from user interaction POV. Although to be fair, I don't know the actual technical specs of it.

In addition, PWI couldn't continue to have pando assisting with the installs because it caused a lawsuit from a patent troll.

Krisnda wrote: »

For anyone interested as to "why", An anonymous source told me to google: Parallel Networks LLC

It is pretty standard for companies not to comment on pending litigation so the fact that this isn't being more discussed is really typical. Nevertheless, this happened. It's a thing we shouldn't just ignore because it's inconvenient to our arguments. The fact that they've been sued before for using something third party? It makes sense for them to protect themselves form that kind of liability again, by only offering downloads on a platform that they developed and own the rights to. Although, I don't know if they are completely protected if they are smart this should at least reduce risk.

During this time period, PWI did have a nifty little beta program that they had already been testing out that could install people's games just fine. It was called Core Client, back then. That's all Arc is, Core Client. Spiffed up and made to run better. As someone who used Core Client back in the day, I gotta say that Arc just runs better. It looks nicer too. It makes natural, logical, business sense to use it for installing our games in light of this.

But PWI being a business, they likely saw the good that could come from re-branding themselves using Arc. They are tweeting now from an Arc Games twitter. They have an arc games website. They have a clear cohesive way to distribute all their games. Before when it was just perfect world entertainment's website, each game had it's own distinct thing going on. There wasn't much tying them together in terms of themes, gameplay, or aesthetic. Arc fixes that.

Arc also allows them to deliver constant reminders of their other games, and news about them. This works as an advertising vehicle, and encourages you to try out other games. I know it worked on me, just visiting the website. Seeing that one of their other games seems to be doing pretty well in terms of downloads, seeing the freebie stuff they've given out on the playstation 3 console for that game, and being reminded of it every time I go to the website? It makes me want to play that game more. I probably won't, but I must admit it is effective. Before I thought it was interesting, and then I kind of forgot about it.

That last bit is a reason many gaming companies are using steam-like content delivery vehicles, I imagine. PWE is just another company using it. They aren't the first. Will not be the last. They are used so much because they do offer some clear advantages business wise, without mentioning any technical advantages I admit that I don't know enough about to comment on.

So am I happy about it? NO. From a consumer perspective, I can't see any positives to the impending replacement of the launcher. I''m dreading it in fact. And to be quite frank, the way they have handled this entire thing? And the way they have sold arc to us? It's left a lot of to be desired. It may be a requirement, but I still think they've should have done a better job at giving us a reason to want to use Arc.

But I'm not going to sit here and pretend it makes no business sense for them. It absolutely does make sense from a theoretical perspective. I can see why this was attractive to them. The question really is, does my understanding of that fact outweigh my annoyance at the inconvenience being forced on me? I can't answer that question yet. A lot of it will depend on how this all plays out. Thus far, it hasn't been enough of a pain for me to consider quitting. But that could absolutely change.

TL;DR I can see why this is happening, and am willing to give Arc a chance because of that. But I am apprehensive and nervous about this becoming the launcher, and will wait to see how it all plays out.

Sparafucile - Harshlands

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

It makes sense for them to protect themselves form that kind of liability again, by only offering downloads on a platform that they developed and own the rights to.
I still don't see why this should preclude the option of direct downloads, or torrents (though I never use torrents myself)

Except, because:
But PWI being a business, they likely saw the good that could come from re-branding themselves using Arc. They are tweeting now from an Arc Games twitter. They have an arc games website. They have a clear cohesive way to distribute all their games. Before when it was just perfect world entertainment's website, each game had it's own distinct thing going on. There wasn't much tying them together in terms of themes, gameplay, or aesthetic. Arc fixes that.
Yes, the march of the corporate image continues...

Arc also allows them to deliver constant reminders of their other games, and news about them. This works as an advertising vehicle, and encourages you to try out other games. I know it worked on me, just visiting the website. Seeing that one of their other games seems to be doing pretty well in terms of downloads, seeing the freebie stuff they've given out on the playstation 3 console for that game, and being reminded of it every time I go to the website? It makes me want to play that game more. I probably won't, but I must admit it is effective. Before I thought it was interesting, and then I kind of forgot about it.
This kind of advertising they already had on the old pwi website, you could look at, read about, and download any of the other games in the pwe stable. Interestingly, despite being a company that delivers mmo games, they seem unable to grasp the fact that the online community is interconnected to such a degree, that your best way to advertise is through a viral word of mouth method. This is generally accomplished by providing a good product/service, so good that people tell all their friends to get it, and they tell all their friends, etc etc... instead, players are probably telling their friends ''customer service is terrible, don't play this''

That last bit is a reason many gaming companies are using steam-like content delivery vehicles, I imagine. PWE is just another company using it. They aren't the first. Will not be the last. They are used so much because they do offer some clear advantages business wise, without mentioning any technical advantages I admit that I don't know enough about to comment on.
Lots of people like to listen to Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, and One Direction. Me, I will not do what everyone else does, instead I will listen to good music

So am I happy about it? NO. From a consumer perspective, I can't see any positives to the impending replacement of the launcher. I''m dreading it in fact. And to be quite frank, the way they have handled this entire thing? And the way they have sold arc to us? It's left a lot of to be desired. It may be a requirement, but I still think they've should have done a better job at giving us a reason to want to use Arc.
pwe, lousy PR..? Never... LOL

ormahgerd Venus... worra lorra stuff to reply to lolz

Mysticgoldy - Morai

i jused to have arc on mine laptop but with one update i got a error then i cant go furder on arc begus it would not let me to update again it sad that i got a error and then arc dint respont any more then i deleted arc to download again then arc was fine again but it sad that i needed to download hole pw again when pw was still on mine laptop i dont download pw again that is stupid when its already on the laptop or pc that you have so why most i go download pw again if its already downloaded and i want old site back arc site i dont get it cant find any thing on arc site and i saw that the arc site dont have i deal to buy zen manny people juse i deal you know not every one got a stupid credit cards or liking to buy for like 179 euro on pay safe cards if they pick that price out then you need to buy more then one or to pay safe cards begus you only can buy 10 15 20 or 50 on pay safe card so i found it verry stupid site the arc site the people dont think befor they act just act ride away befor thinking like hmm doevery one got that stupid credit cards if they dont why leave the i deal away i dont get that not every one got lots of money to buy a stupid credit card so think about this hard befor i deal disepeer mosed people buy it with i deal it handy safe and payed ride away you get the zen ride away you lose the best people that buy zen from i deal you know i know verry manny people juse i deal it good then buying like 5 pay save cards if they dont have the 50 paysay you forget also that if they dont have the 50 paysafe or 20 then you going to buy like 50 paysafe cards from 10 euro so you stand in shop then ask on the owner in shop wich paysafe they got if they say we got only 10 euro what then if you want the 179 euro you need to buy 170 paysafe from 10 euro and one of 5 euro were do you get the 4 euro to get the full 179 with i deal you just say the price fill in your code's and there stand thank you for buyingzen with out struggle about it in shops and stuff like that so get i deal back also on arc site if you want to keep arc and make it easer to find things on the arc site i only can find forum and stupid news not dg points that i have more then 2k on i lookt 100 times for it and cant find a thing i juse the old one for that but it dont work any more on the old site were i exsely can find it ride away if i press on the site pw to get to originale pw site that we had i want to go to dg points or the award points that i have also dint get begus i cant go on that stupid site begus i get a screen pop up that saying you wil telepoort to the new arc site in fuw seconds even if you press fast on were you want to go it stills come up the pop up saying it that you get telepoorted to the new site were you cant find any thing only news seport and forums for the rest i cant find the stupid dg points on ne site when that is still open the dg points i have the ride to get on the site to get mine points that i collect on pw so give the old site back i deal and think be for you act about leaving stuff out of the site or on pw it self b:angryb:cryb:shutup so please bring the old site back that every one gets it and the ideal

ovenusarmanio

Sparafucile - Harshlands wrote: »

I still don't see why this should preclude the option of direct downloads, or torrents (though I never use torrents myself)

They don't want to use third party software anymore, they've gotten burned by that before. And for whatever reason, direct downloading hasn't been an option for years. If you need to replace your downloading method, it makes sense to use the downloader you've already expended a lot of resources on developing. Especially when nobody complained about having to use a downloader before, and we as consumers had not been complaining about them not offering direct downloads.

They've likely put a lot of money into developing Arc, it makes sense to give it a full chance. There was no way for them to have known that giving us an unquestionable upgrade in terms of usability of our installer would cause quite this much backlash. I mean this isn't just backlash against it being a launcher. People were up in arms about this way before they announced that. And now that they've expended those resources, they are obviously going to continue to use it, and see the response once it's fully launched. Especially when a lot of the people threatening to quit, are still here, spending money. I imagine if in the end, when they've crunched the numbers, whether or not they've lost a lot of revenue or gained some will be a big factor on whether or not Arc is successful. We as consumers, have to vote with our wallets, to effect real change.

Yes, the march of the corporate image continues...

You say that like it's a bad thing. A company should care about it's image. And they should that by having good service, but sometimes have to take risks to repair it as well. Or rebrand themselves. Whenever rebranding happens, you can expect some backlash. But if it overall helps the company survive and thrive, you can't really blame them for it. The question about whether or not Arc is a success or a failure, will largely depend on if they get more revenue than they lose by people quitting.

This kind of advertising they already had on the old pwi website, you could look at, read about, and download any of the other games in the pwe stable. Interestingly, despite being a company that delivers mmo games, they seem unable to grasp the fact that the online community is interconnected to such a degree, that your best way to advertise is through a viral word of mouth method. This is generally accomplished by providing a good product/service, so good that people tell all their friends to get it, and they tell all their friends, etc etc... instead, players are probably telling their friends ''customer service is terrible, don't play this'

It wasn't as in your face, or effective. At least not for me. I could literally do everything from the PWI website and there was no reason for me to visit the PWE one. I literally never went on there. And never had the other games in my face. So I didn't know which of their games were the most popular. With Arc, when I view the news I also look at the arc news to look for codes. And that puts them right in my face. I won't forget. It's a smart decision on their part, in terms of the website. I hate the color scheme, but that's a whole different issue.

Lots of people like to listen to Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, and One Direction. Me, I will not do what everyone else does, instead I will listen to good music

I don't like any of them either, but good is mostly subjective. I won't cast aspersions on the quality of their music because people have different tastes. I think the world would be awfully boring if we all thought alike and liked the same things. Although I suppose you can argue that the stuff that was massively influential and important are objectively good, like Beethoven, Bach, etc.

ormahgerd Venus... worra lorra stuff to reply to lolz

Yea......I've been wanting to respond like this for a while now. But I don't want to be seen as pro arc either.I really don't want it to become the only launcher if it's done in a bad way. As is now I don't particularly like it, but I can live with it. It's not causing any problems with my laptop, and it's not that hard to use. And I can understand how we got to this point.b:surrender