Are TT Items Worth DQ Points?

Joshcja - Sanctuary

I'm for it b:cute

Azura - Lost City

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The underlying issue is there is no instance for farming gear besides TT and warsong/lunar. the warsong/lunar is crippled by design in several ways.

NW is a great farming instance, but its only open 4 hours a week

AEU is likewise very limited and repetitive

BH is pretty much the only available way to farm new coins

with the exception of AEU and NW, there has not been a new farming instance in this game since nirvana.

all gear farming culminates in the cash shop.

bottom line, there is no diversification, no innovation and no customization.

I really miss when there was more than 1 instance to farm money. In the beginning even farming fbs could be profitable.

But, the way PW has gone, it looks like it wants to make all farmers quit... Now the only decent thing to farm (alone) is HH/TT. Well, one can also get squads for lunar and tell them you are paying, so you take all the profits while they farm badges, but lunar is so boring.

What I would really like to see, and that probably would save this game: a instance to farm good gear (maybe the best) where everything that drops is tradable.

ovenusarmanio

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In regards to Nation Wars, you don't kill things, you kill players. Have you done the instance yet?

I know how to invest, this is something I can already do quite well, so well in fact that I'm investing without spending more than 10 minutes a day on this. Anyhow, when I started Perfect World the videos didn't show someone merchanting, it showed the destruction of land, the summoning of a boss, it showed the defeat of a boss by a hero. This trailer was created to captivate players, and if the game company knows this sort of the thing is interesting, rather than merchanting, then why would someone like you suggest players who have the capability to kill bosses to merchant for money? How is this the least bit interesting?

I find it wrong that you want players to wipe their chins and walk away, after farming these TT green mats. You tell them an alternative to this flaw in the game is to merchant, to spend time buying and selling, to continue on funding the buying and selling, which is stupid. It's stupid to continue on doing something, just to continue on doing something you don't like!

Wipe away their efforts? I'm saying they are alternatives already in place for them, and that they shouldn't introduce changes that wipe away the efforts of lower levels who are already at a disadvantage compared to them. It's not continue to do something, just do something you don't like. It continuing to do stuff that gives the f2p players who want to be competitive in pvp, the coin to do so.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why do you consistently make things seem different than they are in reality?

Do you know why people complain about free lunars? I'll give you a hint, "It's not the fact that it doesn't cost the players any money to do the run, it actually cost one squad member 3M coins still. The matter of the fact is that there is a drop worth more than 3M coins in there, and the person who pays 3M coins is under the belief that they deserve the item, which is worth more than the 3M. During 2x drops, the person offering to pay 3M, in exchange for a so called-free-run wanted both of these items, which together is around 8M coins. The players complained because each person contributes to the squad and each person wanted a share for their effort in this, so they would prefer the 500k fee and split instead of going on the so-called-free-runs.

People Actually Do TT runs because they like to do the runs.

I'm aware of why they complain. My point, was made facetiously as a response to another player claiming TT isn't good money. Obviously the answer to all those questions was no. My point is that people farm TT because it's good money, just like Lunar is good money now. They would not be farming TT, just like nobody wanted to do Lunar, if the costs exceeded the worth of the run. TT is already good money, that's why its one of the biggest farming instances now. It doesn't need to have even more value added. High end farmers are already making good money on there. When you make things more scarce and more valuable at the same, it impacts sellers positively, and buyers negatively. That's just fact. In this case though, the people who are under 100 are hard hit enough. They don't need any more changes that are going to effect them negatively. Anyone who is under 100 basically just has FC, being handheld through BH, or grinding DQ for coin. They have questing, but the 80+ quests are not worth the effort. They give too little coin, and too little exp, for the time it takes to do them. Which is why a lot of 90+ clerics for example will grind spiders for DQ items, and sell them off to people who have the coin to just buy the event gold they need/want. That is a market that would be negatively affected if those same buyers could just farm TT and get great coin, and great DQ points. I find it wrong you want to devalue the efforts of the people in the worst position in this game, just to give a boost to people with some of the farming gear out there in an instance they already turn a good profit.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The underlying issue is there is no instance for farming gear besides TT and warsong/lunar. the warsong/lunar is crippled by design in several ways.

NW is a great farming instance, but its only open 4 hours a week

AEU is likewise very limited and repetitive

BH is pretty much the only available way to farm new coins

with the exception of AEU and NW, there has not been a new farming instance in this game since nirvana.

all gear farming culminates in the cash shop.

bottom line, there is no diversification, no innovation and no customization.

I agree 100%. This game needs another high end instance, whose drops are sold to the high level people, that is farmable and worth the effort. It should be more balanced than nirvana was, but still profitable to those who want to participate. The real issue is lack of farming instances for both high end farmers, and lack of worthwhile content for anyone who is not 100.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

So long as R9r3+12 exists there can never be a "good high level instance that's profitable" because the armor is just far too powerful for anything they could put in game. Any part of the content that requires little thought will be facerolled, anything that does will be learned, countered, and then facerolled.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

You irritate me by quoting me out of context. Your first position against turning TT green materials into DQ points is that low levels would need these materials and wouldn't be able to afford them. Now you say high level clerics ( in their 90s) will lose potential coin profit from farming the DQ items to sell from spiders. The DQ system was designed for the players who kill the mobs, and then sells the items to NPC for DQ points. I have no sympathy for the player who chooses to farm DQ and sells for coin if such a change arrives, because that player isn't playing along with how the game system is designed. If the player is as you say, in their 90s, and a cleric, themn that cleric must be pulling at least 5 of the poison spiders at a time. Why is it that the cleric is capable of killing these mobs, but uncapable of working together in a squad with other players, with the same common goals of hunting down TT materials and killing bosses?

Let's not forget, if such change did occur, and the cleric who sells their DQ to an NPC. That cleric will receive the same amount of DQ points.

When said cleric does level and eventually feels comfortable doing TT runs, then wouldn't said cleric want the TT green mats ( which are unable to be sold to other players effectively) wish for them to at least be of value to DQ points? Why else would the player not want this? Let me remind you, it's not one players responsibility and gameplay style which should affect how lower levels farm, because this is the responsibility of the game developers.

Why is it that you didn't comment on my list of 90+ materials that don't affect the low levels also? The lower levels don't need these materials. Are you remotely familiar with the items I mentioned?

Before you forget another portion of the game, let me remind you of the Legendary Gears, since you didn't mention this at all, and I know many lower levels actually prefer this gear compared to TT gears. These bosses found in Bounty Hunter Runs ( which require group effort) drop molds, which can be turned into Legendary armor and weapons. Legendary gear is comparable to Twilight, and some is even better due to channeling and such add ons.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Wipe away their efforts? I'm saying they are alternatives already in place for them, and that they shouldn't introduce changes that wipe away the efforts of lower levels who are already at a disadvantage compared to them. It's not continue to do something, just do something you don't like. It continuing to do stuff that gives the f2p players who want to be competitive in pvp, the coin to do so.



I'm aware of why they complain. My point, was made facetiously as a response to another player claiming TT isn't good money. Obviously the answer to all those questions was no. My point is that people farm TT because it's good money, just like Lunar is good money now. They would not be farming TT, just like nobody wanted to do Lunar, if the costs exceeded the worth of the run. TT is already good money, that's why its one of the biggest farming instances now. It doesn't need to have even more value added. High end farmers are already making good money on there. When you make things more scarce and more valuable at the same, it impacts sellers positively, and buyers negatively. That's just fact. In this case though, the people who are under 100 are hard hit enough. They don't need any more changes that are going to effect them negatively. Anyone who is under 100 basically just has FC, being handheld through BH, or grinding DQ for coin. They have questing, but the 80+ quests are not worth the effort. They give too little coin, and too little exp, for the time it takes to do them. Which is why a lot of 90+ clerics for example will grind spiders for DQ items, and sell them off to people who have the coin to just buy the event gold they need/want. That is a market that would be negatively affected if those same buyers could just farm TT and get great coin, and great DQ points. I find it wrong you want to devalue the efforts of the people in the worst position in this game, just to give a boost to people with some of the farming gear out there in an instance they already turn a good profit.



I agree 100%. This game needs another high end instance, whose drops are sold to the high level people, that is farmable and worth the effort. It should be more balanced than nirvana was, but still profitable to those who want to participate. The real issue is lack of farming instances for both high end farmers, and lack of worthwhile content for anyone who is not 100.

I said wipe chin, not wipe away efforts.

ovenusarmanio

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You irritate me by quoting me out of context. Your first position against turning TT green materials into DQ points is that low levels would need these materials and wouldn't be able to afford them. Now you say high level clerics ( in their 90s) will lose potential coin profit from farming the DQ items to sell from spiders. The DQ system was designed for the players who kill the mobs, and then sells the items to NPC for DQ points. I have no sympathy for the player who chooses to farm DQ and sells for coin if such a change arrives, because that player isn't playing along with how the game system is designed. If the player is as you say, in their 90s, and a cleric, themn that cleric must be pulling at least 5 of the poison spiders at a time. Why is it that the cleric is capable of killing these mobs, but uncapable of working together in a squad with other players, with the same common goals of hunting down TT materials and killing bosses?

Let's not forget, if such change did occur, and the cleric who sells their DQ to an NPC. That cleric will receive the same amount of DQ points.

When said cleric does level and eventually feels comfortable doing TT runs, then wouldn't said cleric want the TT green mats ( which are unable to be sold to other players effectively) wish for them to at least be of value to DQ points? Why else would the player not want this? Let me remind you, it's not one players responsibility and gameplay style which should affect how lower levels farm, because this is the responsibility of the game developers.

Why is it that you didn't comment on my list of 90+ materials that don't affect the low levels also? The lower levels don't need these materials. Are you remotely familiar with the items I mentioned?

Before you forget another portion of the game, let me remind you of the Legendary Gears, since you didn't mention this at all, and I know many lower levels actually prefer this gear compared to TT gears. These bosses found in Bounty Hunter Runs ( which require group effort) drop molds, which can be turned into Legendary armor and weapons. Legendary gear is comparable to Twilight, and some is even better due to channeling and such add ons.

I simply misunderstood the expression, my apologies. I had never heard of it before. I didn't quote you out of context though, I quoted the entire thing. Moving on, So you have no sympathy for the DQ farmers, but all this sympathy for high end farmers. TT mats were meant to be farmed and worn by low level players, not high end selling to low end, initially. Game has changed since then, and high end farmers have every right to sell that stuff to low level players. Just like DQ farmers should be selling their wares to people who want to buy them. That is the entire point of farming. To sell stuff to people they can't or won't farm themselves. Otherwise the only farming that is valid is for your own gear only, and thus there would no excuse for your change at all. Who are you to say whose farming things people want to buy is valid, and whose is not? DQ farming for points has been around as long as there has been points. And it's not that they are not capable of doing it. It's that it would cost them money to run the instance, when you take into account the opportunity costs. This is because they incur way more costs time wise than a high end farmer. Time that could be spent doing things that are actually profitable. Once again, if it was worth the time and effort to be doing it, people would be. Just like there are still level 100s out there with hay farming alts in their 30s, or people using alts for Jolly Old Jones. Thus they will farm DQ and then buy from you. You want to crowd into their DQ market, and raise the costs of their gear, because one of the most profitable instances in the game isn't profitable enough for your liking. I don't give a darn if there are some things in there that aren't worth that much, there were things in nirvana that people didn't really want either, like the shards. That didn't mean you deserved something special for them.

I consider anything below 100 to be low level. Because there is very little content for them, and because half the content they do have is completely and totally deserted and thus unable to be used. Try rolling another server as a level 1 and tell me how long you last before you get frustrated and want to quit at the lack of interaction. Just because you don't notice it as a high level, doesn't mean it's not a huge problem.

And legendary gear is nice and all, but most people mix that legendary gear with the TT green gear they don't just wear legendary. And it doesn't change the fact that TT gear is still some of the most accessible and appropriate gear for their level, that they should be wearing it, and that there is no good reason to raise the costs of the most disadvantaged group of players in the game to benefit high end farmers that already make good money. There is a reason everyone is jumping into FC, it's because the content below level 100 is hard, lonely, and barely worth the effort. That's the reason the majority of the playerbase jumps into FC. I disagree with any idea that makes that problem worse. And that's not even to mention merchant markets you would kill by doing this. Dyes, charms, refines, all things players rely on. Not everybody has the gear to farm TT, be glad that you do.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I simply misunderstood the expression, my apologies. I had never heard of it before. I didn't quote you out of context though, I quoted the entire thing. Moving on, So you have no sympathy for the DQ farmers, but all this sympathy for high end farmers. TT mats were meant to be farmed and worn by low level players, not high end selling to low end, initially. Game has changed since then, and high end farmers have every right to sell that stuff to low level players. Just like DQ farmers should be selling their wares to people who want to buy them. That is the entire point of farming. To sell stuff to people they can't or won't farm themselves. Otherwise the only farming that is valid is for your own gear only, and thus there would no excuse for your change at all. Who are you to say whose farming things people want to buy is valid, and whose is not? DQ farming for points has been around as long as there has been points. And it's not that they are not capable of doing it. It's that it would cost them money to run the instance, when you take into account the opportunity costs. This is because they incur 10 times the costs time wise as high end farmer. Time that could be spent doing things that are actually profitable. Once again, if it was worth the time and effort to be doing it, people would be. Just like there are still level 100s out there with hay farming alts in their 30s, or people using alts for Jolly Old Jones. Thus they will farm DQ and then buy from you. You want to crowd into their DQ market, and raise the costs of their gear, because one of the most profitable instances in the game isn't profitable enough for your liking. I don't give a darn if there are some things in there that aren't worth that much, there were things in nirvana that people didn't really want either, like the shards. That didn't mean you deserved something special for them.

I consider anything below 100 to be low level. Because there is very little content for them, and because half the content they do have is completely and totally deserted and thus unable to be used. Try rolling another server as a level 1 and tell me how long you last before you get frustrated and want to quit at the lack of interaction. Just because you don't notice it as a high level, doesn't mean it's not a huge problem.

And legendary gear is nice and all, but most people mix that legendary gear with the TT green gear they don't just wear legendary. And it doesn't change the fact that TT gear is still some of the most accessible and appropriate gear for their level, that they should be wearing it, and that there is no good reason to raise the costs of the most disadvantaged group of players in the game to benefit high end farmers that already make good money. There is a reason everyone is jumping into FC, it's because the content below level 100 is hard, lonely, and barely worth the effort. That's the reason the majority of the playerbase jumps into FC. I disagree with any idea that makes that problem worse. And that's not even to mention merchant markets you would kill by doing this. Dyes, charms, refines, all things players rely on. Not everybody has the gear to farm TT, be glad that you do.

I'm 100% positive that TT wasn't designed for high levels to farm for low levels. The instance was designed for players in each level range, to work together in a squad in that level range to farm gear for that level range. It just so happens that high levels tend to sometimes farm to low-er end gear and resell to save time for lower levels.

ovenusarmanio

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm 100% positive that TT wasn't designed for high levels to farm for low levels. The instance was designed for players in each level range, to work together in a squad in that level range to farm gear for that level range. It just so happens that high levels tend to sometimes farm to low-er end gear and resell to save time for lower levels.

It's not to save the lowbies time, it's to make money. Same as lowbies farming DQ to sell to high end players. It saves the high end players time, and gives the low levels money. There is zero difference, except in the levels and quality of gear.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

It's not to save the lowbies time, it's to make money. Same as lowbies farming DQ to sell to high end players. It saves the high end players time, and gives the low levels money. There is zero difference, except in the levels and quality of gear.

Do you still believe that TT was truly designed for high levels to farm gear for low levels?

If this is the case, then I can see why new players now are in no comparison to players who started years ago skill wise.

I leave the game 7 months ago, and I come back and there is still no new barbarian ( by new I mean one created within the last 2 years) who is remotely close to as skilled as me. Why is this? It's not that I'm so used to a barbarian, it's that I was put into stiuations which pushed me to use skill, and lack of gear to overcome situations!

How does the first person do an instance, if in your theory "the instance is designed for higher levels to farm for lower levels" ? What gear did that player rely on in the first place to start their collection of gear?

Do you have full refines + 12 or Rank 9 3rd cast refined to at least +10 yet?

ovenusarmanio

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do you still believe that TT was truly designed for high levels to farm gear for low levels?

If this is the case, then I can see why new players now are in no comparison to players who started years ago skill wise.

I leave the game 7 months ago, and I come back and there is still no new barbarian ( by new I mean one created within the last 2 years) who is remotely close to as skilled as me. Why is this? It's not that I'm so used to a barbarian, it's that I was put into stiuations which pushed me to use skill, and lack of gear to overcome situations!

How does the first person do an instance, if in your theory "the instance is designed for higher levels to farm for lower levels" ? What gear did that player rely on in the first place to start their collection of gear?

Do you have full refines + 12 or Rank 9 3rd cast refined to at least +10 yet?

Where did I say that it was designed high levels to farm gear for low levels. I'm saying that low levels no longer farm it because it isn't worth it. The opportunity costs are too high. They have been crowded out of the market by APS farmers. I'm saying that those APS farmers are in a much better position to make money than the low level farmers just trying to scrape together some money for some gear. I'm saying that there is no reason to raise the costs, and devalue the items the lowbies do farm, to benefit a group of players that already have great gear. My gear has nothing to do with this topic. Nor does whether or not you're a skilled barbarian. That has nothing to do with the facts of the state of the game. There is little worthwhile content for low levels, and that is difficult as a result for them to make money. Messing up one of the few markets they have and making their gear more expensive so that one of the most profitable instances in the game, farmed by players with some of the best gear in the game, can have even more profit is a bad idea imo.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I simply misunderstood the expression, my apologies. I had never heard of it before. I didn't quote you out of context though, I quoted the entire thing. Moving on, So you have no sympathy for the DQ farmers, but all this sympathy for high end farmers. TT mats were meant to be farmed and worn by low level players, not high end selling to low end, initially. Game has changed since then, and high end farmers have every right to sell that stuff to low level players. Just like DQ farmers should be selling their wares to people who want to buy them. That is the entire point of farming. To sell stuff to people they can't or won't farm themselves. Otherwise the only farming that is valid is for your own gear only, and thus there would no excuse for your change at all. Who are you to say whose farming things people want to buy is valid, and whose is not? DQ farming for points has been around as long as there has been points. And it's not that they are not capable of doing it. It's that it would cost them money to run the instance, when you take into account the opportunity costs. This is because they incur way more costs time wise than a high end farmer. Time that could be spent doing things that are actually profitable. Once again, if it was worth the time and effort to be doing it, people would be. Just like there are still level 100s out there with hay farming alts in their 30s, or people using alts for Jolly Old Jones. Thus they will farm DQ and then buy from you. You want to crowd into their DQ market, and raise the costs of their gear, because one of the most profitable instances in the game isn't profitable enough for your liking. I don't give a darn if there are some things in there that aren't worth that much, there were things in nirvana that people didn't really want either, like the shards. That didn't mean you deserved something special for them.

I consider anything below 100 to be low level. Because there is very little content for them, and because half the content they do have is completely and totally deserted and thus unable to be used. Try rolling another server as a level 1 and tell me how long you last before you get frustrated and want to quit at the lack of interaction. Just because you don't notice it as a high level, doesn't mean it's not a huge problem.

And legendary gear is nice and all, but most people mix that legendary gear with the TT green gear they don't just wear legendary. And it doesn't change the fact that TT gear is still some of the most accessible and appropriate gear for their level, that they should be wearing it, and that there is no good reason to raise the costs of the most disadvantaged group of players in the game to benefit high end farmers that already make good money. There is a reason everyone is jumping into FC, it's because the content below level 100 is hard, lonely, and barely worth the effort. That's the reason the majority of the playerbase jumps into FC. I disagree with any idea that makes that problem worse. And that's not even to mention merchant markets you would kill by doing this. Dyes, charms, refines, all things players rely on. Not everybody has the gear to farm TT, be glad that you do.

Do you believe this? Do you now believe that TT should be farmed by people in the same level range, instead of high levels farming to sell to the low levels? If this is the case, then there shouldn't be an issue of TT Green mats being worth DQ points, because then nobody of importance will be affected. The players affected are the ones who are playing the game the way it wasn't designed. Players can also sell gear to people of equal level as well, to the less skilled, the less geared.

Do you still believe that the value of TT Green being converted to DQ points is still harmful to the game?

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Good point. There is a lot of harm this would cause.

@OP
For one things, the prices have gotten to be around the point it should be. Artificially raising the price by lowering the supply unnaturally won't help anyone but the people who are already making decent money farming TT. Raising the price of TT items by lowering the supply unnaturally would only hurt low levels, and this game is already too low level unfriendly. At least they can do JJ orders, and farm mats to buy the TT items they need. Having them be NPC'ed and scare and expensive would only hurt them. And don't kid yourself if you think it would help them. As long as the drops rates are not severely impacted by high levels coming in and wrecking the instance at easily 10 times the speed and with lower costs, TT farming will NEVER be a viable low level market. Since this isn't a suggestion, you won't mind people making their own suggestions right? I suggest anyone who sucks at making money in TT find alternate avenue for making money. Perhaps, do badge runs and craft peoples gear for them. Perhaps learn to merchant. Perhaps, gear up and get better at playing and go kill things in nation wars. Learn to merchant. Did I say that already? Well, I'll say it again. Learn to merchant. Perhaps farm books to sell. or Learn to merchant. There is already quite a few ways to get money to gear up nowadays, and the base gear is easier to get than ever before. The only people who really, really need more avenues to make money is new players. Because new players who are a portion of that low level market for those TT items, are pretty screwed. There is nobody to play with. There hasn't been any really good low level content added in ages besides the JJ orders.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Yeah. This game is really, really, really new player unfriendly. I can't agree with anything that exacerbates that problem, such as a suggestion that the costs for lowbie basic gear be raised so TT farmers don't have to bother DQ farming.

Why does it matter if the item price goes up if the lowbies can form squad in their level range to obtain these materials? So far it looks like the method of lowbies getting TT mats is through buying from high levels...anyhow let's continue!

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

So people don't use TT70 weapons? Lower levels don't grind the 30 and 35 dq point items and sell them to higher levels for 1.5 to 2x the npc price? Because that market would be affected too if they took away a portion of their customers, the people who would rather farm TT and buy their event gold from DQ with the money the earned, then spend all day farming DQ. Which is admittedly a much better use of their time. It does matter. Just because it doesn't matter to you because you have your gear, or because you are too high level to care, doesn't mean everyone does. The mats are about the right price atm. If you need that gear you can grind out mats to sell or do a couple of weeks of JJ orders to get the gear. That's what it should be. The market has set the price of those items, because that's the price point that makes sense based off the supply and the demand. Artificially raising the price by increasing the value, and lowering the supply would OFC help the sellers. But on that same end, it would ofc hurt the buyers. And in this case, the sellers are the high end farmers who already have a decent sized share of the coin in the game. And the buyers are low levels that this game is already hostile towards. It doesn't need to be more hostile to low levels just to give high end farmers a boost.



Scare items with decent demand makes items costs more. If they are all sold to the NPC, they wont' be available for purchase. If they aren't available for purchase, they become rarer and the price will raise. They might fall back down later, but never again below the value that was added by the NPC. That's how things work. The lower the supply, and the higher the demand, the more the item will cost. Decreasing the supply, while at the same time adding value to the item, will OFC increase the cost of the item. High end farmers are already making good money off of TT, even nirvana had items that weren't worth as much such as the shards. Complaining that not every last item a high end farmer comes across is worth a lot, is not a reason to **** over low levels and **** over merchants.

You are complaining again that the low levels would have to pay the big farmers more money for materials. Why can't the low levels develop the skills to play with people in their level range to farm these materials together??

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I simply misunderstood the expression, my apologies. I had never heard of it before. I didn't quote you out of context though, I quoted the entire thing. Moving on, So you have no sympathy for the DQ farmers, but all this sympathy for high end farmers. TT mats were meant to be farmed and worn by low level players, not high end selling to low end, initially. Game has changed since then, and high end farmers have every right to sell that stuff to low level players. Just like DQ farmers should be selling their wares to people who want to buy them. That is the entire point of farming. To sell stuff to people they can't or won't farm themselves. Otherwise the only farming that is valid is for your own gear only, and thus there would no excuse for your change at all. Who are you to say whose farming things people want to buy is valid, and whose is not? DQ farming for points has been around as long as there has been points. And it's not that they are not capable of doing it. It's that it would cost them money to run the instance, when you take into account the opportunity costs. This is because they incur way more costs time wise than a high end farmer. Time that could be spent doing things that are actually profitable. Once again, if it was worth the time and effort to be doing it, people would be. Just like there are still level 100s out there with hay farming alts in their 30s, or people using alts for Jolly Old Jones. Thus they will farm DQ and then buy from you. You want to crowd into their DQ market, and raise the costs of their gear, because one of the most profitable instances in the game isn't profitable enough for your liking. I don't give a darn if there are some things in there that aren't worth that much, there were things in nirvana that people didn't really want either, like the shards. That didn't mean you deserved something special for them.

I consider anything below 100 to be low level. Because there is very little content for them, and because half the content they do have is completely and totally deserted and thus unable to be used. Try rolling another server as a level 1 and tell me how long you last before you get frustrated and want to quit at the lack of interaction. Just because you don't notice it as a high level, doesn't mean it's not a huge problem.

And legendary gear is nice and all, but most people mix that legendary gear with the TT green gear they don't just wear legendary. And it doesn't change the fact that TT gear is still some of the most accessible and appropriate gear for their level, that they should be wearing it, and that there is no good reason to raise the costs of the most disadvantaged group of players in the game to benefit high end farmers that already make good money. There is a reason everyone is jumping into FC, it's because the content below level 100 is hard, lonely, and barely worth the effort. That's the reason the majority of the playerbase jumps into FC. I disagree with any idea that makes that problem worse. And that's not even to mention merchant markets you would kill by doing this. Dyes, charms, refines, all things players rely on. Not everybody has the gear to farm TT, be glad that you do.

Do you believe this? Do you now believe that TT should be farmed by people in the same level range, instead of high levels farming to sell to the low levels? If this is the case, then there shouldn't be an issue of TT Green mats being worth DQ points, because then nobody of importance will be affected. The players affected are the ones who are playing the game the way it wasn't designed. Players can also sell gear to people of equal level as well, to the less skilled, the less geared.

Do you still believe that the value of TT Green being converted to DQ points is still harmful to the game?

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Where did I say that it was designed high levels to farm gear for low levels. I'm saying that low levels no longer farm it because it isn't worth it. The opportunity costs are too high. They have been crowded out of the market by APS farmers. I'm saying that those APS farmers are in a much better position to make money than the low level farmers just trying to scrape together some money for some gear. I'm saying that there is no reason to raise the costs, and devalue the items the lowbies do farm, to benefit a group of players that already have great gear. My gear has nothing to do with this topic. Nor does whether or not you're a skilled barbarian. That has nothing to do with the facts of the state of the game. There is little worthwhile content for low levels, and that is difficult as a result for them to make money. Messing up one of the few markets they have and making their gear more expensive so that one of the most profitable instances in the game, farmed by players with some of the best gear in the game, can have even more profit is a bad idea imo.

Your gear matters because you are a high level. You're so friendly to the idea of players making decent coin at low level, instead of optimized coins at high level. If this is the case of your logic, then you probably do not have maxed out gear, and your method of obtaining more wealth at end-game will severely be limited. My skill level has a lot do with it because I have expereince. I farmed my gears instead of purchasing from higher levels. End Result. I'm one of the best. You only see coins in my opinion when you say it's harmful to the lower levels, but the reality of the matter is, the lower levels will become less skilled if they purchase their gear from others, instead of actually developing the skill to farm it, which in turn hurts them more!

If your gear isn't maxed out, then tell me: What's wrong with your farming method at a higher level? Are you unable to receive all of these great benefits that you speeak of high levels having?

ovenusarmanio

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do you believe this? Do you now believe that TT should be farmed by people in the same level range, instead of high levels farming to sell to the low levels? If this is the case, then there shouldn't be an issue of TT Green mats being worth DQ points, because then nobody of importance will be affected. The players affected are the ones who are playing the game the way it wasn't designed. Players can also sell gear to people of equal level as well, to the less skilled, the less geared.

Do you still believe that the value of TT Green being converted to DQ points is still harmful to the game?

You should re-read my post. Like actually read it. The part you highlighted means exactly the opposite of what you are claiming I said in your last post. That doesn't say that I believe TT was meant for APS farmers to sell to low levels.

Anyway, If you are going to claim that the DQ farmers buying gear from someone else who farmed it are playing the game in a way that it wasn't meant to be played, then you have to claim the same thing for the APS farmers. That they are not supposed to go to TT period. That they should all stop farming TT. NO farming is allowed for coin. Nobody should EVER farm for coin, only their OWN gear. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, correct? DQ farmers are NO different that TT farmers. Both are farming an item that they can farm reasonably, in order to get coins to improve their gear. There is ZERO difference between their farming and TT farming. At all. Highlighting portions of my post doesn't change the fact that farming for coin is farming for coin. If farming for coin is invalid, then there is zero reason to put DQ points on those items because nobody should be farming for coin. Who are you to say farming DQ for selling is wrong, but farming TT for selling is right? Both are farming things to sell. It's absurd to claim low level farming is wrong, and high end farming is right. At least the people farming DQ are fighting mobs whose difficulty is scaled to their own level range.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why does it matter if the item price goes up if the lowbies can form squad in their level range to obtain these materials? So far it looks like the method of lowbies getting TT mats is through buying from high levels...anyhow let's continue!

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You are complaining again that the low levels would have to pay the big farmers more money for materials. Why can't the low levels develop the skills to play with people in their level range to farm these materials together??

Who are they going to team with? In case you haven't noticed, the lowbie areas are ghost towns. Not only that, but as I said before. The reason they do not do it is because the cost is too high for them to do it themselves. I've addressed why over and over and over. The costs are too high.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do you believe this? Do you now believe that TT should be farmed by people in the same level range, instead of high levels farming to sell to the low levels? If this is the case, then there shouldn't be an issue of TT Green mats being worth DQ points, because then nobody of importance will be affected. The players affected are the ones who are playing the game the way it wasn't designed. Players can also sell gear to people of equal level as well, to the less skilled, the less geared.

Do you still believe that the value of TT Green being converted to DQ points is still harmful to the game?

Nobody of importance? New players are not important to the longevity of a game? You can have an MMO lasts for years without any new customers? In case you couldn't tell, I'm being facetious. Low levels are important. The low level farmers are just as important as the high end farmers. And it is a big deal because this game is already new player unfriendly, as I've said over and over and over again. Making things harder for a group of players that are already the most disadvantaged group of players in-game bar none, to make the one of the most profitable instances in-game even more profitable for the players with the highest caliber of farming gears, is harmful to everyone. This game needs to attract new players, it needs to be MORE new player friendly not less. That starts by making thing more worthwhile for the low level players.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Your gear matters because you are a high level. You're so friendly to the idea of players making decent coin at low level, instead of optimized coins at high level. If this is the case of your logic, then you probably do not have maxed out gear, and your method of obtaining more wealth at end-game will severely be limited. My skill level has a lot do with it because I have expereince. I farmed my gears instead of purchasing from higher levels. End Result. I'm one of the best. You only see coins in my opinion when you say it's harmful to the lower levels, but the reality of the matter is, the lower levels will become less skilled if they purchase their gear from others, instead of actually developing the skill to farm it, which in turn hurts them more!

If your gear isn't maxed out, then tell me: What's wrong with your farming method at a higher level? Are you unable to receive all of these great benefits that you speeak of high levels having?

I don't know how many times I have to say this, they don't farm it because APS farmers have priced them out of the market. Not because they can't. That's the state of the game. Anybody who has actually been playing instead of quitting for a while and then jumping straight back into a high end toon and pretending they have experience with leveling nowadays could see that. Your gear is irrelevant to the state of the game. The state of the game is a fact, that is true for all people in all tiers of gear. It's bigger than me and you. You can't change it just because it doesn't suit your arguments. There is a lack of low levels and a lack of new players, and this has caused the people who do stay in those level ranges to farm things they can do on their own, such as DQ. You are in a privileged position by being a high level. On dreamweaver, I am in a privileged position for having the gear to farm TT on my own. That doesn't mean I am just going to put my head in the sand and pretend that the game is still the same when I first played, and that I can reasonably expect people to do the same thing I did for their gear. APS farming has made TT costly for lower levels, that's why it's not done. They have been crowded out of the market. Their time is thus better spent on other things. That is just a fact. BTW, on Heaven's Tear I am not a high level. So unlike you, when I say reroll a server and see how lonely it is, I am speaking form experience.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

I take it you are one of those high levels who don't have maxed gear.

You are opposing something that will benefit you.

Not only are you opposing something that benefits you, but that'll benefit the next wave of high level players.

You can already feel the no-progress in your gear I suppose, so you settle, and you feel more closely to the low levels. This is where your sympathy and game play lies.

ovenusarmanio

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I take it you are one of those high levels who don't have maxed gear.

You are opposing something that will benefit you.

Not only are you opposing something that benefits you, but that'll benefit the next wave of high level players.

You can already feel the no-progress in your gear I suppose, so you settle, and you feel more closely to the low levels. This is where your sympathy and game play lies.

Nah, I just know how game design works. Sorry but your pvp gear has no relevance to farming TT, to merchanting, or to low level markets. You don't even need r999 to farm TT. Well maybe you do, I don't know. I don't. I know it's important to have new players, and that pandering to the base is a common cause of death of F2P mmos. I can see that not having new players is a huge deal for a game, and that this game is new player unfriendly. I didn't reroll because I couldn't deal, I rerolled because I had already done all the PVE stuff that I wanted to do in-game. Had almost every single piece of female fashion in the game? Check. Beautiful Flyers? Check. Able to do nirvana anytime I felt like it on 2x? Check. Able to Solo TT? Check. Ran a full delta for culti? Check. Got the sage/demon skills I cared about on cleric? Check. Participated in at least one TW in which we were victorious? Check. Soloed FC on a character that was not level 100, or even level 99? Check. Farmed the good stuff from the DQ quest? Check. Tanked Krimson on a cleric? Check. What was left, pvp? No thanks. That's boring.

And I'm not only interested in helping myself. I'm well aware this change would benefit me, being that I can solo TT. But it's a benefit I do not need, and the negative impact it would have on others leaves me unwilling to even want it. If you want free refines and charms, go earn them.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I take it you are one of those high levels who don't have maxed gear.

You are opposing something that will benefit you.

Not only are you opposing something that benefits you, but that'll benefit the next wave of high level players.

You can already feel the no-progress in your gear I suppose, so you settle, and you feel more closely to the low levels. This is where your sympathy and game play lies.

What does PWE gain if they made TT mats have trade-in value for DQ points?

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What does PWE gain if they made TT mats have trade-in value for DQ points?

They will not gain, they will retain. They will retain happy, skillful players.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They will not gain, they will retain. They will retain happy, skillful players.

Then this isn't in their interest since in their eyes, things look content for the most part to them.

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

So people don't use TT70 weapons?

To be honest, I don't know, as far as I remember, only a handful of people ingame do use TT70 weapons when I was playing.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Lower levels don't grind the 30 and 35 dq point items and sell them to higher levels for 1.5 to 2x the npc price?

I am sure most, if not, everybody don't even grind like they did back in the day.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Because that market would be affected too if they took away a portion of their customers, the people who would rather farm TT and buy their event gold from DQ with the money the earned, then spend all day farming DQ. Which is admittedly a much better use of their time.

The market has already been affected, this isn't even new. DQ got the value to 1 coin per NPC price, and worst of all people don't buy 41-71 at all. TT mats are overfarmed, nirvana mats have been overfarmed by NW. Molds have been valued less, nobody even bothers selling custom gears anymore and so on.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

It does matter. Just because it doesn't matter to you because you have your gear, or because you are too high level to care, doesn't mean everyone does.

It doesn't matter to everybody since basically everyone has gained high level with their gear and/or just quit the game. This game became new player unfriendly since people abused power leveling, I agree with you on that. However, if you see low levels, most of the time they are alts. Some people even quit before reaching even level 60 because they couldn't find anyone to squad with. The community only cares about endgame, nothing earlier than that.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

The mats are about the right price atm.

Not true for most TT items... Let me clarify this for you.

Piece of skeleton: No one buys or even sell this.
Chintien edge: It is hard to sell even for 10k on HT, why? That's because it almost always drop in TT1-1 and you always have to get through this boss (unless as a sin maybe?) to go to the last one or to even do OHT quests.
Soulgatherer's tentacle: Barely worth 50k, even though half the equipment you can make are decent.
TT70 gold mats: The ones that make ornaments, no one would take the time to even make it unless they are bored or something.
Claw of consumer of souls: There is nothing really redeeming about this item making it worthless
Giant ape's tooth: No one uses or sells this
Also listing the items dsholder was talking about.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

If you need that gear you can grind out mats to sell or do a couple of weeks of JJ orders to get the gear. That's what it should be.
The market has set the price of those items, because that's the price point that makes sense based off the supply and the demand. Artificially raising the price by increasing the value, and lowering the supply would OFC help the sellers. But on that same end, it would ofc hurt the buyers. And in this case, the sellers are the high end farmers who already have a decent sized share of the coin in the game. And the buyers are low levels that this game is already hostile towards. It doesn't need to be more hostile to low levels just to give high end farmers a boost.

I agree, it is a bad idea to have TT mats to gain DQ points now thanks to "botting" issues in PW-CN. It would have been a good idea if people can get full profit from the entire game instead of just cash shop but the devs have already ruined the low and mid level content to the point of people rather power level to 100 ASAP than be frustrated with trying to make coin below that.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

I'm glad to see that 37 players have voted for this idea so far.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I take it you are one of those high levels who don't have maxed gear.

You are opposing something that will benefit you.

Not only are you opposing something that benefits you, but that'll benefit the next wave of high level players.

You can already feel the no-progress in your gear I suppose, so you settle, and you feel more closely to the low levels. This is where your sympathy and game play lies.

so you are saying that people should support only something that benefits them? nice.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

I suppose you have a syndrome that doesn't allow you to see words after a comma.

Here you go, since there's now comma you may be able to read this sentence.


Not only are you opposing something that benefits you but that'll benefit the next wave of high level players.



I'm always happy to help the disabled.

RyuTiger - Raging Tide

You can say you had made a good TT run if you have gold drop but... not all golds are selling fast, some of them no one buy anymore. The problem is 80% of green mats we sell at NPC or dont even pick anymore. The only way to make money from TT is to have gold and that only works at X 2. It's beginning to look just like Nirvana instance now (farm at X 2 only) . I like the idea and I voted for YES. You cant make money from TT anymore so a lot of people sell T3 crafting, raps and uncanny, flowers and high lvl mats, Boutique items and other things to try and make coins but something must change in TT because sooner or later it will die just like Nirvana. I have 3 characters full of green mats and nothing to do with them because no one buy even at 70% discount from other catshops. b:shocked


Ohh i forgot. I think we dont need any new instance to drop mats or stuff. I think we need an instance with a lot of mobs who really drop coins instead of items that we hope to sell because otherwise 1 day it will turn in TT and nobody will buy those either. WE need coins drop not items that maybe and maybe we will sell them.
If the new instance will have mats and items drop and not coins someone will ruin the prices there to at some point and will be dead just like the rest of instances

Morridune - Raging Tide

I personally cant see this been anything but good for increasing player activity and helping the new player's

Firstly gives ppl more of a reason to squad up and go TT if they cant solo, currently apart from odd bh, fws AEU and lunar ( tho lunar is soloable just takes and age) what do ppl squad for any more? I'd rather people started been more active than sitting for hrs waiting for a bh or fws then quitting game cos its boring. There are days when you can log in a be finished all your dailies in less than an hr this give's a little more scope to what you can do with ppl

Lower lvl'd players will be priced out of market? this for me is the weakest argument at the moment these mats are worth f' all because there easiest to get, add DQ values wont change that it'll simply encourage lower lvl'd players to go get them themselves. Which as i remember back before there were lvl100's farming instances wen ppl hit lvl 60 they went and (insert shock and horror) got their lvl 60 mats same at lvl 70 same at lvl90 etc etc. point in fact at lvl70 i was duo'n 1-1 solo with a friend to collect mats for faction mates weapons so claiming that mat prices will out strip what lower players can afford is redundant if they just go farm them themselves and by adding dq you add incentive for ppl who already have gear to tag along/help for a share of the mats come end of the run, more ppl running=more mats on offer so although a lot will be gettin npc'd the current state is their npc'd for large part due to availability so whats rly going to change

Cost not worth rewards?? how so if ppl are running in squads it lowers the cost automatically because you're not taking all the damage or charm hits alone and for the tanks their more likely to have healers with them lessening the need for charms equipped ( you know like we use'd to play) every mat will be of sme value so w/e result of the runs drops every1 gets something of value. If you one of the ppl who solo (boo hiss for effect) you'r still getting some thing for those runs were luck simply wasn't with on drops and its dq points to go towards another charm or that ninja outfit so you feel more pro slapping bosses (im currently hoping to get a purple set to add to collection)

It will hurt the charm/refine merchants? Will it though I dont actually think this argument is all that thought through, 1st lets look at refines ok so ppl might be able to get their gear's to +5/6 easier but past that there going to want Dorbs and last time i checked there not in dq rewards as for charms well more refines a player has = more hp, more hp= bigger charm tic's. Silver charms are nice but simply dont last as well as plats or gold and for the times player rly need to be charmed i.e NW and TW you want like your gear the best you can get your hands on, add this to fact cos ppl try charging stupid amounts for charms most ppl don't bother with em until a sale's on and stockpile

on a last note to the merchants worrying how this would kill trade lets not forget more ppl farming = more ppl wanting hp pots/mana food and as ppl tend do do things the easiest and fastest way i ask you this Whats the easiest and fastest way to make subs?? tokens or buying em out a shop. even if you're an AFK hero you still need to be able to adjust to market demands and needs ijs otherwise as a merch ur not going to be doin very well as is and no changes to games drops are rly going to help you there.

So why wouldn't PWI implement this? well it might mean adapting a game to its customers needs heaven forbid lol more seriously they do seem to have some sort of schedule for updating game at moment but that doesn't mean it should be written off

What has PWI to lose? Nothing rly keeping new customers interested in game is only way to expand their client bases and keeping existing players actually playing over settng up shops and going to watch youtube is more likely to encourage people to spend RL cash on their toons.
The DQ reward systems already implemented by making it more viable or at least making so you can farm your DQ in a more varied manner they keep more active player's and thus more potential future zen sale's without having to code and entire new set of instances to meet player demands for more things to do in game while also helping to hold onto f2p player base who the cash shoppers need for in game custom/amusement pwn'n in pk cos remember who's going to spend $100' if there's no one to show it off to

ovenusarmanio

Morridune - Raging Tide wrote: »

snip because my post is long

Can't see it being anything but good? All changes like this have good sides and bad sides. Acknowledging the bad sides instead of pretending they don't exist, and then coming up with ways to counteract or mitigate the downsides is key to implementing positive changes.

Why would adding DQ points make low levels squad up to run it themselves. It doesn't change the fact that they can't and never will be able to run it as fast as APS. APS killed TT farming the same way Nation Wars killed Nirvana. Pretending that isn't true doesn't mean that it isn't. Back before APS, venos were the ones soloing TT. And even though venos got all the profit for themselves, they were typically slower than a squad. This mean that the opportunity costs were no so high as to pull them out of the market.

It won't encourage low levels to go get it themselves. I don't care what you did way back in the day, the game has changed since then. There are fewer genuine new players and people who intend to stay low level for any appreciable amount of time. Making it hard to get a squad for anything, even BH. How many times have you seen someone WC for a lowbie BH over and over again, only for you or someone you know to jump into their squad even though your a high level and rush them through the instance? Those lowbies that farm for DQ and level the old way are your customers. There is fewer of them than it was before making even getting a squad difficult. Than after all that, it is still more costly to run it than it's worth. Go look up "Opporutnity Costs" which must be factored into the cost of running a TT for a low level. There time, given the state of the game (how long it would take them to even get a squad together, the costs of apoth, the fact that any profit is split 6 ways, etc) is much better spent doing other things. That is the reason nobody does it. That's just a fact. If it was worth doing, people would be doing it. That's human nature, and it is true for all things.

Good luck on your purple ninja outfit.

Yes it would hurt the charm/refine merchants, not everyone can afford to merchant dragon orb oceans and the like. A lot of mid-size merchants get their start with things like 1 star orbs, tokens, perfect stones, etc. That's because these are easier to acquire and get started price wise, then something that is expensive. Yeah you have to adjust to the market, as a result. But no merchant in their right mind would ADVOCATE for their market to be crashed. In addition, the DQ farmers who sell 30 and 35 point DQ items, would have their market collapse. And they don't have all the other options that TT farmers have because they don't typically have the gear or the levels to do it.

Why shouldn't PWI implement this? Because it drives way new customers to suit the needs of customers that are by and large already content with the game. That makes zero sense. It also hurts their own refine aid sales, charm sales, and dye sales. Why would they hurt their own ability to do business and drive away new customers by making it even less low level friendly?

Keeping high levels in instances isn't going to attract new players. New players mostly concern themselves with the content they will actually reach, which is low-mid levels. They want to attract new players they need to ramp up advetisment, get people out onto the world map, and put in worthwhile content for their level range. So that when people join in this game, they can have epic battles and farming experiences we did.

It's not going to make them money. It might help with TT farmer player retention, but that's about it.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

It doesn't matter if low levels can't kill as fast as high levels. This is common sense. Who would have the motivation to level up if lv. 100s did the same damage as level 70s?

The low levels would still benefit from gaining DQ points from TT green mats also, despite how fast they can kill the bosses. They will thus have more DQ points to refine their gears, more DQ points to purchase dyes, more DQ points ot play around in the Event Botique!

ovenusarmanio

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It doesn't matter if low levels can't kill as fast as high levels. This is common sense. Who would have the motivation to level up if lv. 100s did the same damage as level 70s?

The low levels would still benefit from gaining DQ points from TT green mats also, despite how fast they can kill the bosses. They will thus have more DQ points to refine their gears, more DQ points to purchase dyes, more DQ points ot play around in the Event Botique!

Nobody is arguing that they should do the same damage. But it's silly to ignore the game design reason as to why low levels no longer run TT. They wouldn't benefit because they aren't running TT. They aren't running TT because the costs exceed the value, and it's better to spend that time doing something else. They are farming DQ and//or mats, doing quests, FC, and BH. They need the TT gear for the last 3 so it being more expensive hurts them. It also devalues that many are farming, which is the DQ. Because why would anyone buy from them, when they can just run TT get their fill of DQ points and possible have some gold mats to sell.

But let's assume all of that isn't true. It is true, but let's pretend it isn't. Why on Earth would you want MORE people farming TT? That would just increase the supply of the gold mats which would devalue them. Why do you think they are so cheap now compared to back in the day? It's because all those APS people that farmed nirvana and ignored TT are now all running TT. If the reason for this to make it easier on TT farmers?

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Nobody is arguing that they should do the same damage. But it's silly to ignore the game design reason as to why low levels no longer run TT. They wouldn't benefit because they aren't running TT. They aren't running TT because the costs exceed the value, and it's better to spend that time doing something else. They are farming DQ and//or mats, doing quests, FC, and BH. They need the TT gear for the last 3 so it being more expensive hurts them. It also devalues that many are farming, which is the DQ. Because why would anyone buy from them, when they can just run TT get their fill of DQ points and possible have some gold mats to sell.

But let's assume all of that isn't true. It is true, but let's pretend it isn't. Why on Earth would you want MORE people farming TT? That would just increase the supply of the gold mats which would devalue them. Why do you think they are so cheap now compared to back in the day? It's because all those APS people that farmed nirvana and ignored TT are now all running TT. If the reason for this to make it easier on TT farmers?

You're worried about the cost of materials rising for low levels, but you're afraid of gold mats being lowered? You're so biased and I don't think you truly care about other players here with your agument.

Maybe the low levels aren't running the TTs, because they know it's not worth it. I can care less if even 100 people a day constantly run TT, because then Everyone will have the materials they need more available and cheaper. It's not always about profiting in terms of coin.

Morridune - Raging Tide

im not saying lowbies be as fast as aps however if there is a more guaranteed reward for going ppl are going to go, what change'd after the mass influx of high aps toons was the reward for going got less and less as the lower or more common mats became worthless making many mats that were split at end of runs not worth time spent, add a system that means even the drops no1 wants for gears have value and it becomes worth the time going thus encouraging people to go and play the game
As for "customers by and large already content with the game" what forum hasn't now got ppl qq'n over the lack or server activity yes we need more content that i wont argue but that requires active player base in game and not a wall of AFK catshops lagging out west.
Mid lvl merchants will crash and burn, wasn't this an argument that could be applied to every time pwi does a discount on refine aids in cash shop or even by the implementation of the DQ reward system altogether? has't it actually stopped ppl maknig money? ofc it hasn't there is and always will be people willing to simply buy due to lack of time or excess of money and for dq merchants well erm it gives them new stock to sell not every1 will have time/will to spam TT just the same as not every1 is willing or has time to spend AoE grinding the 25-35pt dq mobs and im not suggesting the DQ points on ttmats massively out strip the current 1s.
Either way it doesn't remove the token market which is still by and large most efficient way to break into larger scale merchanting it'll at worst make you use your imagination a little more and show some business savy

ovenusarmanio

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You're worried about the cost of materials rising for low levels, but you're afraid of gold mats being lowered? You're so biased and I don't think you truly care about other players here with your agument.

Maybe the low levels aren't running the TTs, because they know it's not worth it. I can care less if even 100 people a day constantly run TT, because then Everyone will have the materials they need more available and cheaper. It's not always about profiting in terms of coin.

I'm not afraid of gold mats being lowered. I couldn't care less. I don't even play on DW anymore. I care about all the farmers, low levels and high levels both. I can see multiple issues being created to multiple markets by this suggestion, and see no real benefit since DQ points are NOT hard to get.