Which one or two skills tipped sage/demon for you?

tweakz

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Plus, you can't really complain about Craggs two spark cost when you're recommending replacing it with GF+Thicket combo which requires 2.3 sparks and 5 seconds of channeling time. Not to mention Crag has a few aoes also.

I didn't recommend replacing it with that combo. I've only been using Thicket with chi aura which is rare.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Just gonna hop in and respond to the original question of the thread;

My mystic is stuck at lvl89 for now as I'm working on other things but once I get back to it, eventually, it's going sage. I'm planning to play as support mostly so the purify chance of Bitc is quite important to me.

Additionally, Verdant Shell's defence bonus. Energy Leech grants a short anti-stun as well, which I'd rather have over a speed increase.

Questions:
~Crags explosion vs GF damagewise? Pretty sure cragg explodes physical and Gale is wood damage. I'm quite certain Cragglord has one skill that deals physical damage and the other that deals magic damage.
~Can you overwrite Mass Resurrection with Resurrection (buff everyone at the start with MR, then replace as you run)
~Falling Petals, does it recover your mana or targets? Asked a Mystic friend and it appears that it recovers your mana, not the target's.
~Any of the new pet skills learned at lvl 11 notable? Salvation gets an AOE shield which is handy instead of having to apply it one by one. The devil gets a boost buff to hit harder (guess something like pets' Claw or so).
~There was an argument the other day over demon Verdant Shell's "status evasion". Its status effects, like Tidal Protection does right? Someone was saying it negates attack like Focus Mind, not TP.
~Clarifying Energy Leech: sage goes to 9 seconds. Demon has a 50% for to be immune for 10 seconds or just 10 seconds of speed boost. It's the chance to get a speed buff as far as I know (hence I prefer its sage version).

I saw nobody else answered to your questions but I don't have an answer for all of them b:surrender

Alexis - Lothranis

Yes, Resurection over buffs Mass Resurection (I tried MR and afterwards normal Res and after death came back with 100% hp from the demon effect). And yes on energy leech only the speed boost lasts for 10 seconds. Storm Mistress at lvl 11 gets a 3 seconds seal. Small but still useful.

tweakz

Test on Venemous Ghoul:

Lucky Break + Galeforce - 104804 dmg
Sage Cragglord L10 Cometfall - 24716 dmg
I took my aps bm with +6 pve G15 axes and +18str out and hit the same mob with demon fissure for a mere 13591.

*Note that this is not erupted, rapid growthed, energy leeched, etc dmg, but invigorate was used, and it was a single test hit using a wand.

L102 Sage Cragglord's pertinent specs:
patk 6989
matk 6920

Cometfall (Cragglord's AoE):
"Deals 3 times the summon's basic attack damage to all enemies within 10 meters of itself."
Channel: 1
Cast: 1.5
CD: 10

Galeforce:
Channel: 1
Cast: .5
CD: 8

I discovered during the test that Cragglord would not move to the targeted mob, and that he'd hit NOTHING if nothing is within 10m of it. Galeforce has a range of 12m and will hit all within 14m.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cragglord usually is summoned prior to the mobs in delta/aoe situations. His aoe damage is basically passive because it requires no channeling or focus really. The only thing that does require focus is resummoning a Mistress to start using her aoes. Plus, you can't really complain about Craggs two spark cost when you're recommending replacing it with GF+Thicket combo which requires 2.3 sparks and 5 seconds of channeling time. Not to mention Crag has a few aoes also.

Which I kind of like demon for the fact that this combo of Cragg->Storm has a 25% chance of costing only 1 spark, and summoning Storm then gives 30 back.

Questions:
~Crags explosion vs GF damagewise? Pretty sure cragg explodes physical and Gale is wood damage.

As others said cragg have a physical and magical attack, but as tweakz said the range is short and for the AOE magic if the target is not close he will walk to the target (when your cragg walk 5 sec to get to a target the 20 sec go fast), but for the physical one he don't move to the target so if the target is to far the skill is cast, but don't damage, it's not like us if the target is far and we use a skill our char walk to the target then cast it, well with cragg it cast it nvm if the target is out of range.

~Can you overwrite Mass Resurrection with Resurrection (buff everyone at the start with MR, then replace as you run)

I can't answer that since I'm sage, but by logic I'm sure demon mystic AOE ress buff the squad and don't waste mana to ress buff people one by one after AOE ress buff and for some reasons some people care about mp, ress buff one by one cost 17.4k mana for a squad of 6, for something like TW/NW that would be 29k (plus one by one is long cause 30 sec of cd) so I guess demon will AOE ress and single buff ress when people die and need it again, I would personally not waste 17.4k-29k mana to ress one by one when I can AOE ress buff all for 3.9k mana.

The reason ''less charm ticks'' is ****, other class are happy to get ress buff so demon or sage people don't care cause they have ress buff, people don't ask me if I have sage or demon ress buff, they say simply ''Yay ress buff'', usually when you die you charm did tick so when I ress myself I trow a BitC and my charm don't tick or same on someone else, the charm have 10 sec cd, so if the person ress ASAP I trow a BitC and the charm don't tick.

~Falling Petals, does it recover your mana or targets?

Our mana, but we recover less then the skill cost, that was a skill people was telling me make them go demon cause it stay 4 more minutes, but at the end if the person get hit 5 seconds after you cast it it will be gone as fast as sage.

~Any of the new pet skills learned at lvl 11 notable?

Salvation got the AOE shield so yes it's useful in PVP and PVE.
Devil got a boost on his attack, I use only devil in PVP for stun so to me the third skill is not useful.
Mistress get a skill that silence, useful in PVP.

~There was an argument the other day over demon Verdant Shell's "status evasion". Its status effects, like Tidal Protection does right? Someone was saying it negates attack like Focus Mind, not TP.

I'm sage so I don't know about that, I'll let a demon answer that.

~Clarifying Energy Leech: sage goes to 9 seconds. Demon has a 50% for to be immune for 10 seconds or just 10 seconds of speed boost.

Demon don't have chance to be immune, they have 50% chance to increase movement speed by 60% for 10 seconds. Sage 9 sec anti stun (total).

Answers in purple.

Here a link if you want to see the summons description skills: http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Mystic_Summons

tweakz

I use devil's L11 skill when soloing Black Hole Devourer, and on Vile Snake Fist.

I've stated to someone in game who wanted advice that if you need Salvation: you're squad is fail and thus Salvation is rarely useful. I've found more use for Salvation lately in not so fail squads w/o cleric but would still suggest prioritizing Mistress. I tend to sway on the DD/ Tank side of being a Mystic though but will rise to the challenge when it comes to healing.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Yeah I like the aoe bubbles not as a primary source of healing but just as something "a little extra" that you can throw out while you're healing the tank. Gives you a buffer if someone grabs agro by accident.

mrcharlyplustwo

tweakz wrote: »

I use devil's L11 skill when soloing Black Hole Devourer, and on Vile Snake Fist.

I've stated to someone in game who wanted advice that if you need Salvation: you're squad is fail and thus Salvation is rarely useful. I've found more use for Salvation lately in not so fail squads w/o cleric but would still suggest prioritizing Mistress. .

Why do you say it's a fail squad? I use Salvation if I'm working as sole healer - keep shield up on the tank, cast it on the tank before tank pulls etc.

Salvation's shield doesn't pull aggro, so it's useful if a squad member has to pull a boss away - say if the tank dies and someone else pulls the boss so tank can revive and rebuff.

Please bear in mind I'm only lvl86 so not been in instances past bh79 (but have managed to be sole healer in there and bh69).
Rock on sage so I can get chance of purify.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

mrcharlyplustwo wrote: »

Why do you say it's a fail squad? I use Salvation if I'm working as sole healer - keep shield up on the tank, cast it on the tank before tank pulls etc.

Salvation's shield doesn't pull aggro, so it's useful if a squad member has to pull a boss away - say if the tank dies and someone else pulls the boss so tank can revive and rebuff.

Please bear in mind I'm only lvl86 so not been in instances past bh79 (but have managed to be sole healer in there and bh69).
Rock on sage so I can get chance of purify.

He speak about Salvation lvl 11 with the AOE shield, which you can't have at your lvl.

Mechsiao - Sanctuary

Back onto topic

PVE - Sage Nature's Vengeance - More chi and 50 Chi skill
PVP - Sage Leech Pet gives 3 seconds more anti stun

Hid - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

"Which skill (or two) were the game changers that made you pick sage over demon or demon instead of sage?" What skill are you impressed with, or do you love the most as a sage or demon mystic?

I went demon, honestly because at the time sage was viewed as the support path and demon the DD path. In reality, either culti can do both pretty competently, but the skills I really went for were demon Thicket, GF, Petals and Tornado b:dirty sage was tempting purely for BiTC and Shell but demon won out and I don't regret it in the slightest. Admittedly the longer antistun from leech might be nice, but with the right genie skills I don't feel it's that great a loss b:chuckle

Jelloid - Sanctuary

I chose to be demon because of the BiTC and res buff. I could gain chi in between breaks such as before starting a pull in warsong or in between waves in delta. The mass res already saves the same amount of exp as sage i think so I might as well use that in one go. Also demon res buff bypasses charm tick when you res b:victory

tweakz

"Also demon res buff bypasses charm tick when you res"

-How many people use mp charm on a mystic anyway? Most of the time I don't even need to pot.

Jelloid - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

"Also demon res buff bypasses charm tick when you res"

-How many people use mp charm on a mystic anyway? Most of the time I don't even need to pot.

I meant HP charm lol b:surrender

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Jelloid - Sanctuary wrote: »

I meant HP charm lol b:surrender

I'm sage and my hp charm don't tick when I ress.

Alexis - Lothranis

Charms tick when your hp is below 50%. Normal/sage Res takes it to exactly 50% so it doesn't tick.

Jelloid - Sanctuary

Well I guess I don't notice my charm not ticking often when I have mass res on b:chuckle I always tend to res right before something attacks before I can cast a heal and BAM the charm gets working! (-shakes fist at high ping)

But anyway its nice to be able to res during NW with full HP without worrying about heals and surprise lucky+gale the melees who were attacking me b:dirty

Kyrael - Dreamweaver

I chose demon because of BitC, verdant shell, gale force, thicket, and summons mostly.

Honestly, it was a tough choice. I think the two paths are very balanced. BitC and summons let you get a large amount of chi very quickly outside of battle (or in a battle where you are spamming them, like getting devil stuns off while sacrificing him or other summons), gale force makes mobs run a lot less often or freezes players more, verdant shell is like a mini tidal protection, and the amp on thicket is spectacular.

I love other demon skills, but those are huge bonuses to me. Do I miss no purify on break? Sure, but if I'm stuck in a healing role the extra chi lets me spam down vital herb and even do some extra DD with cragg or amp with thicket a lot more often. If a fast purify is necessary for an instance, take a cleric. Extra pdef on shell is awesome, but if I know I'm going to have someone try to stunlock me, that tidal protection can save you. I don't care too much about the mana savings on the summons, so demon wins there. Sage cragg is great, but saving a spark sometimes can also be great.

The two paths are really balanced, and it just matters which skills you use the most that you like. Whatever you miss from either path, genie skills can make up for, too.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Jelloid - Sanctuary wrote: »

I chose to be demon because of the BiTC and res buff. I could gain chi in between breaks such as before starting a pull in warsong or in between waves in delta.

Kyrael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I chose demon because of BitC, verdant shell, gale force, thicket, and summons mostly.

Honestly, it was a tough choice. I think the two paths are very balanced. BitC and summons let you get a large amount of chi very quickly outside of battle

I just want to make a point here, cause people make it sound like sage BitC wasn't giving chi.

In GV I'm back full chi way before the next wave come, same with ws pull.

BitC and healing pet have a really fast channeling and low CD which make it really fast to get chi ''out of battle'' even if sage BitC don't have the 20% change to gain 25 extra chi.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Does it matter for GV? No. Does it matter for TW and NW? Yes. Every second counts there and the faster you can chi up the faster you can get back into action.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Does it matter for GV? No. Does it matter for TW and NW? Yes. Every second counts there and the faster you can chi up the faster you can get back into action.

In NW I prefer NV on a barb to make chi cause I get points in the same time, while when you go make chi with BitC in a corner you don't make points and waste time that you could make points.

I tried demon and yes some skills was nice, but I always was out of chi and needed to stop for heal myself to build chi then go back continuing what I was doing, while on sage I never got chi issue and no need to stop fighting to go make chi.

Maybe it's my play style that make me have chi issue as demon, but not as sage. Mystic is so versatile then there's not only 1 way to play it.

For me even if demon had 50% chance to 30 chi more I would still stay with my chance of purify, it saved my life and other people over and over again and in NW you can use it on the flag carrier without need to be squad with him and many time the person would have not make it without the fact I can purify.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Thought I'd update with what I chose and give my reasons. It's been 2-3 weeks since I got most the responses and I've come back to this thread 10-15 times, lol. I've also gone over ecatomb's comparison list 10+ times.

I finally chose demon.

The three skills that tipped it for me fall under the "support" category:

Cloud Comfort- I had to weigh Cloud Comforts 35% chance at a squad purify vs BitCs 25% chance of purify. CC has higher odds, but also a longer cast time, longer cooldown, and cannot be used on member outside a squad. BitC only effects 1 player and has a lower chance or success. I weighed the 35% chance of it working on 6 people vs the 25% chance of having to do it for 6 people individually vs the need to purify only 1 person and having a roughly 3 second channel and cast (after -channeling gear) skill with 6 second cooldown. I chose CC for the higher success rate. When you need something to work its better to gamble on the higher odds for 1 time success, rather than spam success.

Gale Force + Thicket combo- I believe GFs freeze rate is 50%. If demon actually increases it 35% that is an 85% success rate, meaning only 15% of the mobs are running and pissing off my squad mates. If Thicket also has a roughly 50% success rate that means half of the 15% mobs missed will be freezed too, and they may get Thickets 9 second curse effect. So (assuming 50% success rate on both skills, I could be wrong here) thats 92.5% of mobs frozen and 25% of mobs cursed. One of my fears was having a mystic that really can't aoe because it makes mobs scatter but this makes aoeing worth it.



All other skills were balanced enough or chi based and chi management can be done with playstyle. I've played veno and cleric and constantly heal players and pets to keep up my chi. Also, every character I have has a genie with cloud eruption on it except my veno. My mystic will have cloud eruption and will probably spam it, which is what I do on most chars. I'm used to it and its become part of my playstyle. Pets aren't something I resummon often (summon once, keep alive until you need a different summon). So 15 chi vs 155 less mana cost wasn't a big deal. The only pet that I went "ooohhh" for a skill was sage Cragg and I don't use my Cragg enough for that to weigh heavily.

ChevaIier - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thought I'd update with what I chose and give my reasons. It's been 2-3 weeks since I got most the responses and I've come back to this thread 10-15 times, lol. I've also gone over ecatomb's comparison list 10+ times.

I finally chose demon.

The three skills that tipped it for me fall under the "support" category:

Cloud Comfort- I had to weigh Cloud Comforts 35% chance at a squad purify vs BitCs 25% chance of purify. CC has higher odds, but also a longer cast time, longer cooldown, and cannot be used on member outside a squad. BitC only effects 1 player and has a lower chance or success. I weighed the 35% chance of it working on 6 people vs the 25% chance of having to do it for 6 people individually vs the need to purify only 1 person and having a roughly 3 second channel and cast (after -channeling gear) skill with 6 second cooldown. I chose CC for the higher success rate. When you need something to work its better to gamble on the higher odds for 1 time success, rather than spam success.

Gale Force + Thicket combo- I believe GFs freeze rate is 50%. If demon actually increases it 35% that is an 85% success rate, meaning only 15% of the mobs are running and pissing off my squad mates. If Thicket also has a roughly 50% success rate that means half of the 15% mobs missed will be freezed too, and they may get Thickets 9 second curse effect. So (assuming 50% success rate on both skills, I could be wrong here) thats 92.5% of mobs frozen and 25% of mobs cursed. One of my fears was having a mystic that really can't aoe because it makes mobs scatter but this makes aoeing worth it.



All other skills were balanced enough or chi based and chi management can be done with playstyle. I've played veno and cleric and constantly heal players and pets to keep up my chi. Also, every character I have has a genie with cloud eruption on it except my veno. My mystic will have cloud eruption and will probably spam it, which is what I do on most chars. I'm used to it and its become part of my playstyle. Pets aren't something I resummon often (summon once, keep alive until you need a different summon). So 15 chi vs 155 less mana cost wasn't a big deal. The only pet that I went "ooohhh" for a skill was sage Cragg and I don't use my Cragg enough for that to weigh heavily.

Lol you made the right decision but you think too much

Brillance - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cloud Comfort- I had to weigh Cloud Comforts 35% chance at a squad purify vs BitCs 25% chance of purify. CC has higher odds, but also a longer cast time, longer cooldown, and cannot be used on member outside a squad. BitC only effects 1 player and has a lower chance or success. I weighed the 35% chance of it working on 6 people vs the 25% chance of having to do it for 6 people individually vs the need to purify only 1 person and having a roughly 3 second channel and cast (after -channeling gear) skill with 6 second cooldown. I chose CC for the higher success rate. When you need something to work its better to gamble on the higher odds for 1 time success, rather than spam success.

Is that true though? When it procs, will it purify equally everyone in your squad?

I'm asking because when I made made my choice it would not. It would purify randomly a few members of your squad. Maybe 2 of 6.

No worries from your perspective. Either way you made a good choice, I'm just asking to see if the spell has changed.

Thanks.

klys

This was a PVE question?
Both cultis roll PVE.
Also, Comforting mist is one of the least used skills we have.
If your main reason for going demon was for fear of scattering mobs in PVE - i think you were hasty in your decision.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Yes the Comforting Mist procs seperately for each person in squad. So generally two out of six people will get purified in squad with use. Still has way too much cooldown to be of much use.

Brillance - Raging Tide

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes the Comforting Mist procs seperately for each person in squad. So generally two out of six people will get purified in squad with use. Still has way too much cooldown to be of much use.

Thanks for the swift answer CapnK. b:thanks

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

klys wrote: »

Also, Comforting mist is one of the least used skills we have.
.

That.

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes the Comforting Mist procs seperately for each person in squad. So generally two out of six people will get purified in squad with use. Still has way too much cooldown to be of much use.

I personally didn't know that, maybe cause I'm sage and when people ask demon or sage, demon mystic say AOE purify>single purify, BUT I never saw them say it wasn't totally AOE, but random (tough I didn't read every single thread/post on mystic section). I would have personally be **** off if want demon for that skill thinking it was totally AOE and find out it wasn't AOE at 100%. So is it 35% chance of proc on each person or 35% to proc then randomly work on some people?

Well Gz on culti.

Eoria - Harshlands

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

So is it 35% chance of proc on each person or 35% to proc then randomly work on some people?

It's a 35% chance to proc on each person.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

It's a 35% chance to proc on each person.

Ok thx.

Well I guess we learn new stuff everyday. xD