Which one or two skills tipped sage/demon for you?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

*background*

I'm not the biggest fan of casters but I love knowing what I'm working with in squad. I don't like playing them as much, but I love when they're played well by others and so thats what I strive for. That way I can know what they're capable of.

So I have leveled my Mystic in spurts of 1-40, 40-70, 70-78, trying to drill the class but then took a long break. I have 5 other chars on that account 100+ and accumulated alot of exp orbs from BHs and my mystic jumped to lvl 91 without me really playing her... Bad, I know, but I'm insisting on learning the class.

So I have a 91 mystic that I am relatively uninformed about. Oddly enough, I'm still getting plenty of positive comments about being an excellent mystic but there is a ton of room for improvement. I've kept up on my culti but I'm under pressure to chose a path since I'm already 2 levels late, but still can't decide.

***


I know the "which is better: sage or demon" horse has been kicked to death. It seems neither culti is really that impressive, honestly. Its not so much balanced as just neither sage or demon seems to have a skill people love or can't do without. I've read ecatomb and I've read some of our other threads on it and still can't decide so I thought phrasing the question like this might help.

"Which skill (or two) were the game changers that made you pick sage over demon or demon instead of sage?" What skill are you impressed with, or do you love the most as a sage or demon mystic?

Brillance - Raging Tide

Chi - almost 2 years ago a longtime player said he couldnt imagine playing a Magic class that wasn't Sage, because of the Chi. (Argueable)

Sage Break in the Clouds - The 25% purify proc seemed better than the Demon 33% proc on random players in a squad. (Doesnt mean you are guaranteed a proc once every 4 casts for Sage. Just like with the Demon proc, cant pinpoint how many or which chars in squad will be purified. For me, the Sage single player 25% seemed to produce a slightly more controlled result.)

What turned out to be my favorite was the 3 second Sage bonus on Craglord.



More background please -

Armor type?

Do you plan to spend a lot of time PKing on your Mystic?

How do you play your Mystic - mostly healer, mostly DDer, combo of both?


Ive seen players switch back and forth so many times its not funny. I think that kinda proves the 2 cultis are rather balanced, which is why everyone says to read the spells you like to use, and see which bonuses you feel will benefit you the most.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Hmm, ty for the info.

I have a sage veno and sage sin and honestly rarely use the chi skill because it takes about 3 seconds to cast and I'm rarely standing still for 3 seconds, usually trying to be up with/ahead of my squad to support them. I only really use it when I log in or when we're waiting for afk players. I favor magic genies and spam cloud eruption since it gives 3 times the chi and doesn't take any time.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

More background please -

Armor type?

Do you plan to spend a lot of time PKing on your Mystic?

How do you play your Mystic - mostly healer, mostly DDer, combo of both?


Ive seen players switch back and forth so many times its not funny. I think that kinda proves the 2 cultis are rather balanced, which is why everyone says to read the spells you like to use, and see which bonuses you feel will benefit you the most.

Arcane armor, have most a G16 set from my cleric and will complete it whenever my BM is fully recasted, so will get the 6 piece bonus and a G16 weapon at 100 with +5-+7 refines.

I like the potential of pk on mystics but I'm honestly not a pker. PK gets stale really quickly for me. Its one of those things that 99% of the time will be PvE but I like the potential to PvP if the whim strikes, and mystics do have pretty excellent potential as far as PvP goes. Still, mostly PvE.

I play my mystic as support. Similar to how I play my cleric. Keeping people alive comes first, but if people are healed and I can make things go faster DDing or debuffing I do that. No point in spamming heals on a fully healed tank, or a sin thats getting 6k hp per second from paint and only taking 300 damage. Plus, I've learned on my cleric its usually better to freeze/sleep a mob and have no one take damage than to let mobs do damage and heal that. Or to debuff a mob so a sin gets more paint heals and the mob dies quicker, rather than stand there and just heal. Or just kill things yourself rather than heal a weaker DD thats taking too much damage.

Like I said, I prefer melees and being in the action but the ranged class I love is my cleric. They get to heal, debuff, dd, and both read and react to mobs and squads. They're a very busy class which gives me that same feeling of in the action that melees get. Similarly mystics are healing, dding, using pets, using plants, and reading situations to best help their squads. A good mystic can be very busy so it has some appeal there for me to be a ranged class I really enjoy.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Went Demon primarily for Gale Force. The higher chance of immobilize is important for squad play, since as a BM I hate when mystics seal mobs and make them run. It's still not 100% freeze though (came out to 82% freeze, 60% seal when I tested it).

But I think the biggest difference between the two cultis comes down to one skill: Break in the Clouds. Sage gets the chance of purify, which can really save a flag carrier in NW. Demon gets super-fast chi buildup outside of combat, which can be useful in both TW and NW.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Like I said, I prefer melees and being in the action but the ranged class I love is my cleric. They get to heal, debuff, dd, and both read and react to mobs and squads. They're a very busy class which gives me that same feeling of in the action that melees get. Similarly mystics are healing, dding, using pets, using plants, and reading situations to best help their squads. A good mystic can be very busy so it has some appeal there for me to be a ranged class I really enjoy.

Im support too. But I tend to be mostly DDing, even as main heal. A Mystic can produce some great DD. Even though I guess technically we are a range class, I found it very hard as a fledgling Mystic not to pull aggro. Seemed logical to play frontline to fix that problem. Ive played frontline in almost all cases ever since.

You can easily remain in the center of the action on your Mystic. You can even be the center of the action, depending on where you stand and how much of yourself you are willing to put into playing the char well.

GL no matter which way you go.

Brillance - Raging Tide

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Went Demon primarily for Gale Force. The higher chance of immobilize is important for squad play, since as a BM I hate when mystics seal mobs and make them run. It's still not 100% freeze though (came out to 82% freeze, 60% seal when I tested it).

But I think the biggest difference between the two cultis comes down to one skill: Break in the Clouds. Sage gets the chance of purify, which can really save a flag carrier in NW. Demon gets super-fast chi buildup outside of combat, which can be useful in both TW and NW.

Mind if I ask?

As a BM, if a Mystic waits for that spinning thingy (HF?), then releases a Thicket or GF, isn't that supposed to contain most of the mobs?

I never understood what the big deal was with mobs moving a short distance away then returning in a couple seconds. In other games, melee would just stop attacking for a second.

I accept you dont like those spells, nor a couple of the lysinged plants - it just helps one to hold themselves back so much if they figure out what the big deal is. Thanks.

Alexis - Lothranis

Choosing between cultis comes down to what you usually do on your mystics and your playstyle.

For PvE, sage sounds more appealing to me mainly cause you have the purify on the heal (a chance of it but it's spammable) and the extra chi on the attack skills and the chi gaining skill itself which means you're not gonna have problems with chi so long as you also attack not just support (I don't really believe in mystics doing just one thing at a time). And you also have extra pdef from VS. Demon gets a +1 for the freeze on GF.

For PvP it's all about playstyle. I picked demon, though not just for 1 skill. The extra chi on BitC and pets means you can get a lot of chi Passively, without requiring a target. Or otherwise you get chi while fighting defensively and healing yourself and so being able to prepare to switch to attack when you're ready. I also found the demon version of Falling petals and Res to make good support in TW.

The main star for demons would probably be Thicket, the "mini-hf" is an awesome add to have. If i remember right from my first tests the damage increase is 20%. What's awesome is that your target is gonna be freezed/sealed and also take that extra damage. If same gear, most of the time that's game over if they don't break off the seal at least. Though sage also has it perks... I know I, more than once, wished I had those extra 3 secs on the antistun...

There is also one skill I was curious about when I went demon. Verdant Shell, as I understand it acts like sin's Tidal Protection which would be awesome, and it's 15 secs with a cd of 20 secs, almost spammable. Tough as luck would have it, I didn't get my hands on it yet.

Brillance - Raging Tide

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1057311

Might wanna check it out. Has some good info, and starts off talking about VS. Some of the info might be out-dated as its more than a year old, and they cant seem to stop figuring out ways to mess with the class. b:angry

Alexis - Lothranis

Interesting so it's like Focused Mind and not Tidal Protection apparently...? Kindah goes against description. Still awesomely useful but you're right I won't be sure till I see for myself xD

klys

1 culti isn't exclusive to pvp or pve- look at the skills and decide- i'm biased towards 1 path cause i truly believe it to be more rounded, but i'm not gonna say which - cause i don't wanna start a flame war.
To the original question: there were way more than 1 or 2 skills that "tipped it"

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

I went demon for chi, gale force, swirling mist, aoe purify proc on comforting mist.
I'm mainly a PVP mystic.
I dont really feel that sage is inferior to demon in mystic pvp, it's all about play style. I think demon and sage mystics are probably one of the most balanced of culties in the game

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

I want sage for:

-Break in the Clouds: the 25% proc really often and it's a fast healing spell so for me personally mine proc every 2-3 shots 4 max. Plus with that you can use it on someone not in squad, like in NW if a barb have the flag and get stun I can use it on him even if he's not in my squad.

Some people say demon is better cause AOE, demon is AOE right, but long cd and chan, mystic almost don't use that heal for that reason, obviously cannot be use on people not in squad and if you don't get the proc on the first cast then people won't have the negative status anymore by the time you try to cast it a second time and usually on something like AOE stun you got stun to so can't cast it anyway. By the time a demon mystic cast that AOE heal a sage mystic would have time to cast 6 time his single heal.

It's like psychic they have AOE purify, but ask them, majority of time they use it it's for one person not for a full squad, cause for a AOE stun, sleep you will be stun and sleep too, for something like DG people run everywhere by the time to cast it you won't have anyone around you and will stand there like a idiot casting a slow AOE heal hoping to get purify proc for only you and for something like amp well same thing you will waste your time on a AOE heal with slow chan for one person.

wow I write so much.

I'll try go short for the rest, sage part I wanted was the sage verdant shell for more p.def, energy leech for 9 sec anti-stun and since I do PVE a lot sage NV is freaking awesome for chi.

Demon have nice skills, but what turn me off for demon was they are all ''a chance of'' nothing sure and it's like cragg demon has a chance to cost only one spark, ask on forum they all complain it always cost them 2 sparks.

Sage also have ''a chance of'' but on skills that we can spam like NV and BitC, while demon nice skill with ''a chance of'' are on skills that cannot be spam, like thicket, Comforting mist, GF.

So yea for me sage was about more chi, more safe on the effect and more survivability.

Eoria - Harshlands

Demon Verdant Shell is a tidal, not focused mind. It's only 20% though.

Anyway, **** I really like about demon mystic:

-Thicket (ofc)
-Gale Force
-Break in the Clouds (chi so good...sage is good too though)
-Summons (moar chi)
-Comforting Mist (dun use this skill in pvp, but it's awesome for pve, tbh)

Alexis - Lothranis

Good I was right. Well even if it's just 20% still sounds useful to me.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

I never understood what the big deal was with mobs moving a short distance away then returning in a couple seconds. In other games, melee would just stop attacking for a second.

Other games are different. In this game, when a target is moving you walk up to it, get ready to attack, oh they moved, walk up to it, get ready to attack, oh they moved... You cannot attack until they stand still. So by sealing mobs you've prevented all melee in your squad from attacking for a considerable period of time. Which lowers the overall damage of your squad.

Plus, if any of those mobs are ranged, they won't come back - they'll stop wherever they ended up and shoot at you. So the work the barb/puller did to bring all the mobs in close together so they can be aoed efficiently is lost. Now only some of the mobs are in aoe range and again your squad just lost overall damage.

It's not just mystics, venos do it a lot also. Which is a pain because neither of those classes has a wide variety of aoes.

tl;dr use Cragglord in Delta not Gale Force.

tweakz

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Demon Verdant Shell is a tidal, not focused mind. It's only 20% though.

Anyway, **** I really like about demon mystic:

-Thicket (ofc)
-Gale Force
-Break in the Clouds (chi so good...sage is good too though)
-Summons (moar chi)
-Comforting Mist (dun use this skill in pvp, but it's awesome for pve, tbh)

Status evasion might pose issues: When tanking BH SoT, or Aba; I'd like the 10% more pdef of Sage. If I evaded the bleed; timing of erupt (purify) could be thrown off.

How does the Gale Force work for demon? I ask because the Sage version doesn't make them run as far which is really nice in Rebirth at keeping mobs in AoE.

Is the chi gain more useful as a healer or as a DD?:

• "Has a 20% chance to recover 30 Chi upon hitting the target. " -sage NV
• "Has a 20% chance to gain 25 extra Chi. " - demon BitC

You could spam Comforting Mist 3 times spending 3k mp, take 12 seconds to do it and still not purify everyone in squad, or you could just heal through the ailment cheaper and faster on just the ones that need it. CM like Cleric's CHB should rarely be used imo.

Either culti choice is good imo for any of the 7 classes I play including Mystic.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

My argument with the 'Take the skills you use the most and look at those' is sometimes playstyle completely changes when you get the new effects of sage and demon. My seeker I play completely different with sage skills, have different orders and preferences, then I did when I was level 88. My veno uses fox form a ton more at 100 because of the growth of my physical defense. So I try to look at every skill, I try to use every skill, and get the advice of people who've done it for a while rather going on my personal experience because that may change.

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Went Demon primarily for Gale Force. The higher chance of immobilize is important for squad play, since as a BM I hate when mystics seal mobs and make them run. It's still not 100% freeze though (came out to 82% freeze, 60% seal when I tested it).

But I think the biggest difference between the two cultis comes down to one skill: Break in the Clouds. Sage gets the chance of purify, which can really save a flag carrier in NW. Demon gets super-fast chi buildup outside of combat, which can be useful in both TW and NW.

Ty, was LF proc rates on GF. I was also considering this as a major plus but going to ask if sage's effect of slow kept them in range, also.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

As a BM, if a Mystic waits for that spinning thingy (HF?), then releases a Thicket or GF, isn't that supposed to contain most of the mobs?

I never understood what the big deal was with mobs moving a short distance away then returning in a couple seconds. In other games, melee would just stop attacking for a second.

I accept you dont like those spells, nor a couple of the lysinged plants - it just helps one to hold themselves back so much if they figure out what the big deal is. Thanks.

Spinning dragon's is Heaven's Flame. It's a 100% amp for 6 seconds (lvl 10 or sage) or 9 seconds if demon. Double damage and stacks with most other effects so subsea would mean 260% damage, add amp and its 338% dmg... Big boost and its aoe.

When a mystic GFs about half the mobs get sealed and run away in all different directions. Any melee targetting them now chases them (often outside of bb) and stops attacking for 4-5 seconds to do so. This means your one aoe caused them to miss 2 or 3 opportunities to aoe. Lets say they tab target instead to a frozen mobs that isn't running. They lose a second moving over to it but continue to aoe, except our aoe range is usually 6-8 meters and half the mobs half ran beyond that and aren't being hit. And the mobs aren't coming back so our nicely packed zhenning circle has became a scattered bunch of individual mobs we'll kill 1 or 2 at a time. The barb may have to repull or dd's may have to go outside of heal range to attack. Ranged dd are also going to have problems since some run outside of a vortex or DB, some run into an archers half damage range, and some are just too spread out for aoes to hit them also.

In the meantime, the barb who has all mobs in physical range doing physical attacks now has had half the mobs run to range and switch to magic attacks. Depending on his mdef these are now doing 3-5 times more damage on him. They're also not in range of his attacks so he may soon lose aggro and someone else will have to tank the mobs and maybe die. The BM can't stun these or be backup tank because they're out of his aggro range too.

So... because the mystic wanted to do their 1 aoe, BMs and other melees are missing their aoes, everyones aoes are going to continue missing half the mobs, the barb is taking more damage and losing aggro....

Lastly, and this is a huge thing for me on my barb, mobs don't follow or give me chi. I'll whisper the BM "I use the mobs for chi so don't stun unless I lose aggro." Then I pull, circle back into the mobs and let them attack me for a second. Bestial rage gives me 8 chi every attack I take, so I quickly build 2 sparks for Sunder (100% crit rate for 5 seconds) and enough to Armageddon after. Sunder is a huge aoe attack, and you know Arma. They are my aggro guarantee. But while the BM knows not to stun the Mystic has frozen half my pull so they're not following, they've sealed the other half, so they're not following, and my Bestial Rage gets zero chi. I may not be able to invoke. I won't be able to Sunder+Arma. And aggro is going to be tricky, as well as grouping the mobs since now they're all over the place.

Just don't use Gale Force. We'd rather you just didn't attack.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Regarding Sage GF, the slow effect does prevent them from running out of aoe range but it still doesn't stop the problem of melees not being able to attack. Any movement at all, no matter how slow, causes a problem.

tweakz

I understand Sakubatou's concern on Mystic's AoE. I play a fairly average geared aps bm as well as a well geared Mystic.

Reasons to use Gale Force:

• It's hits much harder than an aps bm's AoE; even harder with Lucky Break and doesn't miss
• It protects the weaker tanks and plays an integral part in solo healing RB on Mystic
• If you use thicket: it's going to make the mobs kite anyway
• BM can tab a closer mob that didn't move, and often has to move around anyway for other reasons

In RB on a melee toon I believe I threatened to kick and even kicked a mystic for not using Gale Force. They complained that it would get them aggro (which it wouldn't if done tactfully), and the wizard (who could hold aggro) was dying for lack of GF.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

tl;dr use Cragglord in Delta not Gale Force.

Sure I'll waste 2 sparks for a medium damage while with 3 sparks+lucky+GF I one shot mobs in HF.

I did try in the past and that was way much more long to kill the wave with cragg then spark and GF.

BM are take in GV for HF nothing else, so to be honest I don't care if he QQ cause he cannot fists on a mob while I do great damage on all mobs.

I always GF in GV and never NEVER get complain about it by any class, in warsong yes, but in GV never.

As tweakz say if a got a mystic that don't GF in a GV he will get a kick, I don't take a mystic for DD on mobs one by one with NV, I take them for their AOE abilities.

Brillance - Raging Tide

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Other games are different. In this game, when a target is moving you walk up to it, get ready to attack, oh they moved, walk up to it, get ready to attack, oh they moved... You cannot attack until they stand still. So by sealing mobs you've prevented all melee in your squad from attacking for a considerable period of time. Which lowers the overall damage of your squad.

Plus, if any of those mobs are ranged, they won't come back - they'll stop wherever they ended up and shoot at you. So the work the barb/puller did to bring all the mobs in close together so they can be aoed efficiently is lost. Now only some of the mobs are in aoe range and again your squad just lost overall damage.

It's not just mystics, venos do it a lot also. Which is a pain because neither of those classes has a wide variety of aoes.

tl;dr use Cragglord in Delta not Gale Force.

I dont do it. I used to use thicket and GF in FC a year or so ago on large pulls, and that's where I was told by the BM not to do that. Since melee classes didnt have a lot of experience with Mystics, I used to tell them not to chase the mobs, they will be right back.

I do use Craggy. Its not difficult for me. Sage, Lvl 6 CE on genie, and plenty of tea in inventory if I happen to end a wave without 3 sparks (1 extra for Vital Herb, as I stand with the BM). Given recent attitudes, its nice to know I was always on the right track with not using it for so long, and not all old information is really outdated, lol.

I have a couple very low level melee classes that have never done anything with a sealer in the squad, so I have no frame of reference from that perspective. Thanks for taking the time to provide an answer.

An angry,
"Never do that!!"
"Why?"
"Just dont!!"
wasnt really helping me understand.

b:thanks

P.S. As a Mystic, we dont really have a good AoE. We do with summons, but a straight-up AoE DD spell that wont freeze and seal at all is just not there. =/

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

P.S. As a Mystic, we dont really have a good AoE. We do with summons, but a straight-up AoE DD spell that wont freeze and seal at all is just not there. =/

I feel bad for mystics, seriously. You guys have one traditional aoe and most squadmates hate when you use it but you don't have many other options.

But I had to lol tonight when I WCd for dd for Delta 2 and got "Mystic and I don't seal mobs" as a response. That got an instant invite and they were pro.

They were a demon mystic and they summoned cragglord each round, and also started with a Befuddling Creeper. They then would lyse the BC right before the cragglord exploded and start summoning and lysing other plants, rotating for all the debuffs and max damage. Cragglord damage is excellent but what made it even better was they were planning ahead on the debuffs, rotating them, and constantly aoeing without ever sealing, and the whole squad got to use their debuffs. This is much better than a class just spamming a single aoe.

Btw, compared to many other caster aoes GF looks kind of sad with 100% damage + 2700.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Tbh, I never had anyone complain to me about deals in delta. Now, I don't know if that might be because I chain my debuffs, use thicket+lucky GF and deal massive damage that way, or whatever.

And meh, cragglord. I only use him at the stun/seal waves. Why? Because I usually got mistress out aoeing aside to my own aoes. Cragglord makes me spam his skills. Move him to the next mob when something dies. All that time I could spend aoeing myself. b:surrender


The skills that tipped sage for me... hm. Pretty much all of them to be honest. There was one skill that appeared to be better in demon for me, the rest was just worthless to me. Probably the biggest influence at that time was break in the clouds. Yay purify Also rez buff seemed pretty appaling to me. I went sage way before morai came out.
I don't regret my decision at all, sage is the support path I love to play.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Sure I'll waste 2 sparks for a medium damage while with 3 sparks+lucky+GF I one shot mobs in HF.

I did try in the past and that was way much more long to kill the wave with cragg then spark and GF.

BM are take in GV for HF nothing else, so to be honest I don't care if he QQ cause he cannot fists on a mob while I do great damage on all mobs.

I always GF in GV and never NEVER get complain about it by any class, in warsong yes, but in GV never.

As tweakz say if a got a mystic that don't GF in a GV he will get a kick, I don't take a mystic for DD on mobs one by one with NV, I take them for their AOE abilities.

You're describing an overpowered mystic and an underpowered BM. In that situation, sure, one-shot the mobs. But are you really spending 380 chi per wave?

I personally am usually one of the stronger aoe-dds in squad so yeah if you make mobs run away from me I'm going to ask you to stop.

Delta mobs are ? level, so Cragglord does full damage while you do 25%. If you're not strong enough to 1-hit the mobs, just use Cragg. You'll make everyone happier.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Honestly, Sage Craggy is awesome in Delta. I have a triple spark, but no Lucky Break as of yet. Nothing extra special gearwise - full R8. Once my gears are better (Have Nirvy T2 in the bank, but as far as Im concerned its not better than my plain old R8, so I wont be using it until its T3), and I finish my culti, I will probably give Bella's way a try, no doubt.

As for choosing based on 1 spell, for me, that is true. I did.

At first I was going Sage, but after hearing people talk about both cultis in this forum, I had changed my mind. They truely didnt seem that much different, and I wanted a seksy red spark too! b:chuckle

As luck would have it, at the last possible minute, a discussion of the Sage/Demon purify proc began in the forum.

I desided IF there is a good reason to choose one over the other, that one certainly seemed like the reason to me. As others have said, just spam it and eventually you will get the proc.

Why would a purify be the desiding factor for me? What would make anything more important than a seksy red spark?

I wasnt power-leveled, and with BH69 still vivid in my mind (for some reason back then, only 2 of 10 clerics would actually know to use their Purify - even after the tank warning them to use it), I knew I wanted more control over a purify proc than the Demon CM was offering me. b:shocked

It really doesnt matter though. Ive met so many varieties of Mystics, even a 'PK LA Sage', that I have come to the definate conclusion that due to the variability of build, gears, playstyles - whatever you pick is going to work - as long as you take the time to learn to play the char, lol.

tweakz

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're describing an overpowered mystic and an underpowered BM.

I've been disappointed with the dmg from the pve axes on bm. I wanted to get S3 nirva axes but heard the dmg output another bm was getting from them and lol'd to myself. I wasn't disappointed because of gain over previous axes: I was disappointed because my Mystic hits so much freakin' harder even compared to S3!

I personally am usually one of the stronger aoe-dds in squad so yeah if you make mobs run away from me I'm going to ask you to stop.

I've been in so many fail 3BM RB squads that I cringe when I see 2 or more. I stopped once for someone that whined. -They barely were able to finish and could have had an easy ride otherwise.

Delta mobs are ? level, so Cragglord does full damage while you do 25%. If you're not strong enough to 1-hit the mobs, just use Cragg. You'll make everyone happier.

Cragglord's dmg is not that great. He doesn't last long. He has to move just like what you BM's are whining about just to hit mobs. He's very timing dependent (as if we can sync it with your HF as good as we can with GF).

I think what BMs are really bothered about is having to pay attention to what they're doing. Sins have it far worse getting their AoEs off with moving mobs (most often caused by BM).

AngelicOne - Heavens Tear

There were a few things that tipped the scales for me. First, the 100% hp on res meant less charm ticks (and before anyone comes up to me with "sage gives less exp loss" I don't honestly care at this point. I have the aoe res for people who like less exp loss on death, and 100% hp regain for people like barbs who enjoy not ticking charm for 10k+ on res).

Second were the 2 aoes. Gale force's extra immob chance really keeps people happier than sage (less ping), and (when I get it) the amp from thicket is gonna wreck some stuff (25% sounds like a low chance, but when you take into account there are 4 shots in thicket, the odds really stack up. The fact that it usually seals, immobs, or does both for a long time (never timed it. maybe 10 seconds?) is just icing).

Third was the heals (and yes, blah blah BitC blah). Falling petals' never lasted long enough to use it unless you toss it on right before a pull or whatever. The extra buffer time between when you need to cast it helps out a lot on longer fights, and is especially good since NW was released. Comforting mist is fairly overpowering at demon as well. I usually get a purify on half the squad every shot between healing the tank, which is really nice.

Fourth was verdant shell. Yes, verdant shell. The first time I saw the effects, I thought they both looked nice, with sage leaning on defs and demon leaning on the chance to immune to effects. I have enjoyed that quite a few times since I learned it. it's saved me from a fatal seal/stun/sleep a few times before, and will probably save me quite a few more once I figure out the perfect way to time it.

The last 2 that made it fairly obvious I should go sage were rapid growth and swirling mist. Swirling mist is obvious, with a debuff chance on demon side and extra damage on sage side, but with rapid growth the 10% less cooldown was just more consistant than the sage version's chance to reset, which is nice for the type of skill it is.

Finally, the shiny red spark was too great to resist, especially when I found out it stacked with rapid growth for a current 72% channeling reduc, which allows me to use more bulky gear while fast-casting rather than needing special gear for it.

tweakz

lol: I forget to mention to those proponents of Cragglord that Mistress isn't time limited, and also has mag aoe that's unaffected by [?] mobs dmg reduction. Mistress also costs no chi.

The world of Mystic is adaptation: Cleric just goes in and sets up Regeneration Aura and depends on squad for the rest. As a Mystic: I have to adapt to my squad. Tonight I had to use Salvation for solo healing. Normally I'd use Mistress but my squad wasn't short on DD; just survival. Usually it's short on DD. Likewise, when you're a weak mystic: Cragglord may be a better option for the squad than GF + SM.

Brillance - Raging Tide

tweakz wrote: »

lol: I forget to mention to those proponents of Cragglord that Mistress isn't time limited, and also has mag aoe that's unaffected by [?] mobs dmg reduction. Mistress also costs no chi.

The world of Mystic is adaptation: Cleric just goes in and sets up Regeneration Aura and depends on squad for the rest. As a Mystic: I have to adapt to my squad. Tonight I had to use Salvation for solo healing. Normally I'd use Mistress but my squad wasn't short on DD; just survival. Usually it's short on DD. Likewise, when you're a weak mystic: Cragglord may be a better option for the squad than GF + SM.

One of those proponents of Cragglord knows him to be the best DD she has right now. She's hardly weak, just undergeared by today's standard. The level you start doing Delta, you wouldnt even have R8 for it.

Its no big thingy to summon Stormy when Craggys done. Its no big deal to summon Cragglord again on a Wave if the mobs are still not down by the time his CD is up. It usually happen at Wave 4 and above.

I never feel stressed in Delta. As long as everyone is doing 'something', I always seem to have plenty of time to do what I need to.

Its nice to think I can use my Creeper now with no problems though. That used to be a big 'no-no' too. Whatever changed with that, AWESOME! b:chuckle

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

lol: I forget to mention to those proponents of Cragglord that Mistress isn't time limited, and also has mag aoe that's unaffected by [?] mobs dmg reduction. Mistress also costs no chi.

Cragglord usually is summoned prior to the mobs in delta/aoe situations. His aoe damage is basically passive because it requires no channeling or focus really. The only thing that does require focus is resummoning a Mistress to start using her aoes. Plus, you can't really complain about Craggs two spark cost when you're recommending replacing it with GF+Thicket combo which requires 2.3 sparks and 5 seconds of channeling time. Not to mention Crag has a few aoes also.

Which I kind of like demon for the fact that this combo of Cragg->Storm has a 25% chance of costing only 1 spark, and summoning Storm then gives 30 back.

Questions:
~Crags explosion vs GF damagewise? Pretty sure cragg explodes physical and Gale is wood damage.
~Can you overwrite Mass Resurrection with Resurrection (buff everyone at the start with MR, then replace as you run)
~Falling Petals, does it recover your mana or targets?
~Any of the new pet skills learned at lvl 11 notable?
~There was an argument the other day over demon Verdant Shell's "status evasion". Its status effects, like Tidal Protection does right? Someone was saying it negates attack like Focus Mind, not TP.
~Clarifying Energy Leech: sage goes to 9 seconds. Demon has a 50% for to be immune for 10 seconds or just 10 seconds of speed boost.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cragglord usually is summoned prior to the mobs in delta/aoe situations. His aoe damage is basically passive because it requires no channeling or focus really. The only thing that does require focus is resummoning a Mistress to start using her aoes. Plus, you can't really complain about Craggs two spark cost when you're recommending replacing it with GF+Thicket combo which requires 2.3 sparks and 5 seconds of channeling time. Not to mention Crag has a few aoes also.

Which I kind of like demon for the fact that this combo of Cragg->Storm has a 25% chance of costing only 1 spark, and summoning Storm then gives 30 back.

Questions:
~Crags explosion vs GF damagewise? Pretty sure cragg explodes physical and Gale is wood damage.
~Can you overwrite Mass Resurrection with Resurrection (buff everyone at the start with MR, then replace as you run)
~Falling Petals, does it recover your mana or targets?
~Any of the new pet skills learned at lvl 11 notable?
~There was an argument the other day over demon Verdant Shell's "status evasion". Its status effects, like Tidal Protection does right? Someone was saying it negates attack like Focus Mind, not TP.
~Clarifying Energy Leech: sage goes to 9 seconds. Demon has a 50% for to be immune for 10 seconds or just 10 seconds of speed boost.

I dont understand why anyone would summon Cragglord prior to the mobs in Delta. He only lasts 20 - 23 secs depending on culti. Craggy is summoned once BM starts HF. If for some reason BM never starts HF, he is summoned once mobs are gathered together at SP. I use Mistress while I wait to see if BM is going to HF, who is summoned once inside, and prior to the instance being started.

Of the non-culti skills of Craggy, one is magic (fire - elemental) and the other physical.

As recent as December 2012, a Demon Mystic claimed the 1/2 spark feature was bugged (i.e. it never ever happens), but thats no big thing, since Demons say they get plenty of Chi, and Sage version always did cost 2 sparks. Its not great that it may not do what it says it will do, but shouldn't make Craggy unusable, or stink.

It is worth mentioning that on that same thread several Demon Mystics claimed they never used Craggy, or never took him beyond level 1. (Could have been a troll fest - other Demon Mystics claim they do use Craggy elsewhere in the forum.)

Does it make sense that you would get a skill, and never ever use it? It might, if you only PK, or want to make your Mystic as inexpensively as you possibly can, and still have it function somewhat. I could post a link to that thread too, but dont wanna be accused of arguing or anything.b:chuckle

P.S. Just as Demon Craggy is bugged - so is Sage Salvation.