From the 10 class which one is the most OP (PVP)
Comments
-
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »Yes and... no. See, here's the thing. A one-liner statement, made by a person who brings no qualifications to the table, which is oozing with spelling and grammatical errors, and which is also WRONG, irks me quite a bit. Given that the person in question either doesn't have a character high lvl enough to use an avatar, or purposely chose to use a no-name avatar, they, in my mind, deserve to be treated like the nub they appear to be.
Mmmf. Dat superiority complex.
A psychic will always resist a kill from somebody else, when that somebody else has to use a lot of hits to kill. That is, unless you use will surge, which is tricky, because you really need to save the genie for fortify sometimes. Basically, if I have to hit an endgame psychic more than 4 times in a row to kill them, me getting sealed is practically inevitable. Not to mention, if they have empowered vigor on, 4 hits will be longer than 6 seconds, and their charm will have ticked anyways. The most efficient way is really to one-shot them. Fortunately, because of their low base physical defense, they are able to be one-shot in a way that I simply can't do to other clerics, mystics, venomancers, or wizards. And fortunately, due to the fact that I can use healing debuffs to nudge down a psychics hp to half and then sleep them, setting up the one-shot opportunity is very easy. Once I have the psychic placed into seal of the gods, there is no switching from the voodoo either.
I don't recall saying anything about Psychic skills, simply that a well played one will be difficult to take down due to not simply camping voodoo or using the same predictable tactics over and over. This, in combination with sealing you ever few hits, makes them troublesome to combat. There are ways to get past a Cleric's combo setup and counter-attack even though some of them can drain your resources heavily, that combo isn't going to win you every fight. Seal of the God is going to give that Psychic 15 seconds to let their genie charge, if they've used a low-cost skill and have a good amount of magic that's a minimum of 30 energy they can re-gain which will most likely put them to full, not counting the time you spend putting them to sleep and setting up debuffs depending on when you use them. Considering that you're going to go for a physical attack they'll most likely have Expel at the ready assuming their genie isn't heavily drained seeing as most Psychics carry that skill. Even if they're in Black Voodoo you can't kill something that's fully immune to your damage.
A good psychic will, of course, switch voodoos if they see me spark and I haven't got them slept or sealed. However I will say I enjoy toying with some psy who start their fight in white voodoo, which I realize to be pointless, and use soul of stunning. I can take a few approaches to making them switch to black; either I ironheart myself a few times, pop 79 shield, and hit them on purpose, which will cause them to switch, or I can hit them right away on purpose anyways, watch for them to switch, use belief and toss a seal of the gods onto them and start my offensive instead.
You see, while that person irks you, you irk me. Because you failed to see the potential of Clerics in PvP until Purify Spell + Morai skills made their appearance. Clerics have always been capable of successfully PvPing even though it was a bit of a challenge. However you seem to rely on the same general combo from what I've seen from you, and while it's a very powerful combo, nobody can dispute that, you shouldn't grow too used to it. Chances are you'll become complacent, you won't need to use anything else and that's not a good thing. That will slow you down and put you in a situation later down the road where once people start resisting that combo reliably you won't know how to handle it. Clerics are extremely versatile, you yourself say that you're an all purpose Cleric. For your sake, I hope you develop more strategies for PvP than the SoG>MoW>Sleep setup, because Clerics are more than capable of being viable in pk even without those.
Replies in red.0 -
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »Yes and... no. See, here's the thing. A one-liner statement, made by a person who brings no qualifications to the table, which is oozing with spelling and grammatical errors, and which is also WRONG, irks me quite a bit. Given that the person in question either doesn't have a character high lvl enough to use an avatar, or purposely chose to use a no-name avatar, they, in my mind, deserve to be treated like the nub they appear to be.
A psychic will always resist a kill from somebody else, when that somebody else has to use a lot of hits to kill. That is, unless you use will surge, which is tricky, because you really need to save the genie for fortify sometimes. Basically, if I have to hit an endgame psychic more than 4 times in a row to kill them, me getting sealed is practically inevitable. Not to mention, if they have empowered vigor on, 4 hits will be longer than 6 seconds, and their charm will have ticked anyways. The most efficient way is really to one-shot them. Fortunately, because of their low base physical defense, they are able to be one-shot in a way that I simply can't do to other clerics, mystics, venomancers, or wizards. And fortunately, due to the fact that I can use healing debuffs to nudge down a psychics hp to half and then sleep them, setting up the one-shot opportunity is very easy. Once I have the psychic placed into seal of the gods, there is no switching from the voodoo either.
A good psychic will, of course, switch voodoos if they see me spark and I haven't got them slept or sealed. However I will say I enjoy toying with some psy who start their fight in white voodoo, which I realize to be pointless, and use soul of stunning. I can take a few approaches to making them switch to black; either I ironheart myself a few times, pop 79 shield, and hit them on purpose, which will cause them to switch, or I can hit them right away on purpose anyways, watch for them to switch, use belief and toss a seal of the gods onto them and start my offensive instead.
You know, your attitude towards someone simply stating their opinion really is uncalled regardless of what if they did not bring enough facts to the table. And talking about grammatical errors....Honestly why do 90% of the people I run into even bring that up as like an underlying secondary insult *Facepalm*, grammatical errors or not, English is not everyone's first language.But that's just my opinion, the choice is still yours.
Back on subject, my only issue with your argument is that your scenarios are placed mostly in a sense where the psychic is just playing into your hands or in other words just failing terribly xD. As much as I agree a psychic's kill strategy is mostly predictable a clerics kill strategy is almost just as much predictable( I am speaking end game cleric and psys 1v1ing both r9s3+12 etc etc).
When a cleric goes to fight a psychic that actually knows what he/she is doing, 90% of the time the cleric is going to do what he/she can to get the psychic to go Black Voodo before setting up a kill because lets face it, a Psychic sitting in White voodoo is not going down so easily. That being said the psychic also knows he/she will be vulnerable in this state and will ensure before going black he/she has some kind of stun/seal already placed or ready.
Yes I do see your strategy about using belief once that happens but the fact of the matter is the psychic still indirectly has the ability to also break your SooG/Sleep combo with belief(if necessary) as well or if it so happens a lucky seal, and in the end the psychic can throw back up Soul of Stunning or rely on his/her seals where as a cleric in that scenario only has shells(which wont be on if you got sealed/stunned and did not use before hand). Also lets not forget the use of apothecary as well as defense charms.
I fully agree with you that clerics are amazing for setting up a kill on an enemy, and also that psychics make themselves vulnerable in black. But the thing is psychics always have their seals to fall back on if all else fails, and with r9s3, purify is now also an alternative.
By the way I have seen you play before, I must say you are good at using your cleric in PvPb:chuckle.0 -
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »Yes and... no. See, here's the thing. A one-liner statement, made by a person who brings no qualifications to the table, which is oozing with spelling and grammatical errors, and which is also WRONG, irks me quite a bit. Given that the person in question either doesn't have a character high lvl enough to use an avatar, or purposely chose to use a no-name avatar, they, in my mind, deserve to be treated like the nub they appear to be.
A psychic will always resist a kill from somebody else, when that somebody else has to use a lot of hits to kill. That is, unless you use will surge, which is tricky, because you really need to save the genie for fortify sometimes. Basically, if I have to hit an endgame psychic more than 4 times in a row to kill them, me getting sealed is practically inevitable. Not to mention, if they have empowered vigor on, 4 hits will be longer than 6 seconds, and their charm will have ticked anyways. The most efficient way is really to one-shot them. Fortunately, because of their low base physical defense, they are able to be one-shot in a way that I simply can't do to other clerics, mystics, venomancers, or wizards. And fortunately, due to the fact that I can use healing debuffs to nudge down a psychics hp to half and then sleep them, setting up the one-shot opportunity is very easy. Once I have the psychic placed into seal of the gods, there is no switching from the voodoo either.
A good psychic will, of course, switch voodoos if they see me spark and I haven't got them slept or sealed. However I will say I enjoy toying with some psy who start their fight in white voodoo, which I realize to be pointless, and use soul of stunning. I can take a few approaches to making them switch to black; either I ironheart myself a few times, pop 79 shield, and hit them on purpose, which will cause them to switch, or I can hit them right away on purpose anyways, watch for them to switch, use belief and toss a seal of the gods onto them and start my offensive instead.
It's kind of messed up, since Zanryu has been know for quite a while. In both the cleric and BM forums. Really it just reinforces the facts that: you're new, you only started PvPing after leveling up to end game area, and you bought the heck out of the gear that most of your posts are based off of.
Attacking Zanryu did not help on any of that, and only reinforces other posts you're made that highlight the bad reactions of someone who still has to learn cleric PvP.0 -
I think you put far too much emphasis on what used to be, and far too little on the here-and-now.
Fact: you haven't demonstrated that you've played on your cleric very recently, and posting from it doesn't mean anything, because we know you don't even play on Dreamweaver anymore
Fact: pk has changed dramatically many times; most noteable changes were introduction of tideborn, introduction of r9 gear, and introduction of r9rr.
Fact: until you prove otherwise, your experience on playing cleric is out of date, and thus I can't really take seriously much of what you say.
Fact: I never, EVER, EVER EVER met any cleric on my assassin who had a snowflake's chance in hell of defeating me (on sin) with any sort of reliability, and on my assassin, I fought anybody and everybody. Full jades, +12, doesn't matter, to a sin's dps, belief on genie + stun lock, there was almost nothing you could do. Seal of gods wasn't very useful back in the day, before thunderball's dot actually did significant dmg, and before you could do healing debuffs and mark of weakness. Edit: this being before r9rr and morai updates.
Fact: clerics have always struggled to kill people they couldn't one-shot. One-trick pony, sleep, triple spark, hope for a crit. I know I'm right, because this is pretty much the only way I've ever died to a cleric, before morai updates and r9rr. By your own admission, Zanryu, pking 'was a challenge'. I've been pking on cleric in various capacities for several years now and I know you are absolutely right about that. What this likely means is that, relative to other classes, cleric's had to put in more effort to achieve similar results. Or, put another way, player of class X (not cleric) going up against a similarly-geared, similarly-skilled cleric, would have the automatic advantage. To win, clerics needed to be more skilled, better-geared, or both, due to inherent offensive limitations of the class. EDIT: to my knowledge, I was the first cleric able to defeat +12 r9 assassins in 1vs1 on a semi-reliable basis, and I couldn't do this until I had +12 r8r purify weapon and 12k hp. This was upwards of 6 months ago.
Fact: I've been playing this game in various capacities since early 2009, so don't even try to tell me 'I'm new' lol. I have 100+ barbs, archers, mystic, assassin, demon cleric, sage cleric, blademaster. Consider myself most proficient with assassin and cleric, though I WAS (not so much anymore) proficient with barb at one point.
Fact: Kill counts? Always red? These mean little, as skilled pkers know. All this really signifies is that you killed a lot of people lower levelled or more poorly geared than yourself, and in itself says little about your ability to fight evenly with others in similar gear.
Fact: Until he can prove otherwise, there aren't any videos of Zanryu pking on his cleric against similar or superior-geared people, and as such, the only person we are currently relying on to decide his skill level is *gasp* his own word. On the other hand, you can view any number of the videos I've been continually uploading to pick apart my strategies and tactics at your LEISURE.
Fact: I'm as adaptable as I need to be. I have many combos I can cycle between if you start trying to predict what I'll do, which is very possible. Even so, knowing what I'll do is a far cry from being able to prevent it. For example, when fighting a psychic, I'm using my healing debuffs and ocassional attacks to nudge down their hp to 50%. A psychic knows EXACTLY what I'm trying to do. But a psychic simply does not have the capacity to clear that healing debuff faster than I can reapply it. Inevitably I'm able to set up a scenario where the psychic is seal of god-ed, or slept, at just above 50% hp. Then the psychic has a few choices to make based on how he/she guesses I'll proceed. Expel in case I do physical? Heart of steel in case I do magic? Soul of stunning in case I don't do fortify, or soul of relaliation to minimize the dmg from one of my attacks (taking into account that I may use fortify after all)? Belief (most psychics don't have a genie set up for this, incidentally)? Typically I do a mix of combos, and I'm keeping a very sharp eye on the psychics self-buffs to know how to proceed. I debuff both magical and physical defense so the psychic is never sure which type of dmg I'll do.
If I'm feeling lucky, I'll do seal of gods, plume shot (do it right away in case you get sealed) to tick def charm, thunderball (if I need to bump their hp bit closer to half), debuff physical, magical, magical shackles, sleep (do this right after the thunderball if you suspect psy will use ad), and use extreme poison with razor feathers, hope for a crit. Sometimes I don't need it to end the fight. Now the beauty of this is, if they actually use expel, they still remain slept, so I switch to magic instead (always starting with mark of weakness first).
My ideal, hardest-to-block combo involves seal of gods when their hp is *just* above half, debuffing magical, physical, doing a thunderball (do it around 8s into the seal of gods in case you get sealed doing it), putting in magical shackles, sleep (their charm should tick right about now), mark of weakness, wield thunder or razor feathers plus click fortify, elven boon, great cyclone or plume shot (the 'or' means, you were watching their buffs, and seeing if they put in expel or heart of steel).
And while I'm at it, Sylvae: for somebody who talks a lot about pk, and feels comfortable commenting on other clerics, how about you put your $ where your mouth is: show me evidence that you, too, are a modern pk-er, and that what you have to say is actually relevant to this discussion. The thread is, after all, about which class is 'most OP', and I'm sure I'm not making a logical stretch to say this assumes endgame gear as well. Well?
Aeliah
Edit: Also, I'm not at all completely satisfied with my performance yet. The biggest limitation I currently have is when attacking multiple different people, I'm too slow to hit my attack skills, because my mouse travels too far from person in middle of screen to attack skills at bottom. I'm working to remove this limitation by acquiring a gaming mouse, which I'll program my attack skills onto for faster response times. I always smile when people say 'one day I'll catch up to you'. Or, when people say 'so and so was amazing'. Maybe gear wise you'll catch up. Maybe skillwise you were amazing. But just don't forget: I will NEVER stop improving, and if you don't work twice as hard as me, you'll get left in the dust.
That is a FACT.YOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »It's kind of messed up, since Zanryu has been know for quite a while. In both the cleric and BM forums. Really it just reinforces the facts that: you're new, you only started PvPing after leveling up to end game area, and you bought the heck out of the gear that most of your posts are based off of.
Nah Aeliah has been around for quite a while as well, and I've not known Zan to post much in the cleric forum
Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »And while I'm at it, Sylvae: for somebody who talks a lot about pk, and feels comfortable commenting on other clerics, how about you put your $ where your mouth is: show me evidence that you, too, are a modern pk-er, and that what you have to say is actually relevant to this discussion. The thread is, after all, about which class is 'most OP', and I'm sure I'm not making a logical stretch to say this assumes endgame gear as well. Well?
Aeliah
What's interesting, is you mention your experience well before Morai for how you know so much about PK, but yet are wrong about clerics not being able to kill equal geared and leveled other players back then. I know that's BS, because I was doing that.
And for the commenting on other videos, I remember how terrible I was when I was lvl 62 and starting to PK. I made mistakes that took me minutes to correct, and went from dieing to not dieing in a 2 v 1 situation with me being the 1. So when I see people not pay attention to something I learned so long ago, and it is still relevant, I'm not going to consider myself that good for learning it. I'm going to consider them that bad for not.
EDIT: Well, in the brief time I've been back, and for the brief amount of time I've played my cleric getting morai skills, I've learned:
How to cast a spell from mid jump, and also the ability to immediately sprout wings right after and take off with no acceleration time.
Thought up a genie combo and weapon swap I haven't seen mentioned on any caster forum, as well as a genie combo dealing with the above.
To cancel cast the morai skills for free healing, without needing the target to cast.
Learned an adjustment made to an old skill, that adds in relation to current skills.
Now this is just about 2 months of playing only the slightest amount, but how much have you improved the past 2 months?0 -
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think you put far too much emphasis on what used to be, and far too little on the here-and-now.
The past is as important as the future, old tactics and playstyles become re-invented and implemented into new strategies. Knowing how a class was once played can make it easier to adapt to the newer play styles as it gives you a basis for gameplay that you can develop as you get more and more new skills/gear.
Fact: you haven't demonstrated that you've played on your cleric very recently, and posting from it doesn't mean anything, because we know you don't even play on Dreamweaver anymore
Fact: Going up against Clerics constantly, and believe me I do have to put up with one in particular who always goes after me when we run anything together or if we're at West, means I'll have an idea of what tactics the class is using. I'm not speaking from a lack of experience, I know first hand what Clerics can do and what strategies they like to implement as of late. Just because I point out that you failed to see the potential of a class before it gained a lot of new skills doesn't mean I'm not aware of how it's played modern day.
Fact: pk has changed dramatically many times; most noteable changes were introduction of tideborn, introduction of r9 gear, and introduction of r9rr.
Fact: Tideborn is irrelevant, at least to the point you seem to be trying to make seeing as I was still actively PvPing on my Cleric after the Tideborn expansion. PvP has changed, I won't deny that, but I've already covered whatever I could say here in my previous statement.
Fact: until you prove otherwise, your experience on playing cleric is out of date, and thus I can't really take seriously much of what you say.
Fact: You just lost any and all credibility if you think you have to play a class to have a relevant opinion on its gameplay. If that were true then nobody would have any clue how to kill anybody else and we'd all be facerolling our keyboards. My experience with the class is not limited to pre-Morai and R9R3, and you're showing off quite a bit of ignorance in believing that just because I haven't played a Cleric in a while that I'm inexperienced when it comes to knowing how they work.
Fact: I never, EVER, EVER EVER met any cleric on my assassin who had a snowflake's chance in hell of defeating me (on sin) with any sort of reliability, and on my assassin, I fought anybody and everybody. Full jades, +12, doesn't matter, to a sin's dps, belief on genie + stun lock, there was almost nothing you could do. Seal of gods wasn't very useful back in the day, before thunderball's dot actually did significant dmg, and before you could do healing debuffs and mark of weakness.
Fact: That's YOUR personal experience, it does not apply to every Cleric nor every sin. You found people you could kill? Great, but that doesn't make sins > clerics set in stone. When I played my Cleric I beat every other Cleric aside from ones that severely outgeared me. I was taking on Clerics from Calamity which was the best faction at the time and winning. I managed to bring down a handful of people with +8-10 weapons while I only had a +5 weapon and +3 gear. Does that mean everyone with that gear can kill people in that gear? No.
Clerics may not have been as powerful as other classes back then, but when played right they could still perform very well. If you believe otherwise then more power to you, but if that's the case then you're horribly wrong.
Fact: clerics have always struggled to kill people they couldn't one-shot. One-trick pony, sleep, triple spark, hope for a crit. I know I'm right, because this is pretty much the only way I've ever died to a cleric, before morai updates and r9rr. By your own admission, Zanryu, pking 'was a challenge'. I've been pking on cleric in various capacities for several years now and I know you are absolutely right about that. What this likely means is that, relative to other classes, cleric's will have to put in more effort to achieve similar results. Or, put another way, player of class X (not cleric) going up against a similarly-geared, similarly-skilled cleric, would have the automatic advantage. To win, clerics needed to be more skilled, better-geared, or both, due to inherent offensive limitations of the class.
Fact: Sleep>Triple Spark is no different from the combo I mentioned in an earlier post. Still nothing but a one trick pony, which seems to be something you have an issue with for Clerics pking pre-Morai update. In both cases, pre and post Morai, Clerics are a one trick pony so if you're going to pick a reason to try to back up the claim that Clerics weren't as good at pking as other classes back then, please pick something reliable. Clerics were and are healers, less damage for the ability to heal ourselves and set up a combo, to run the opponent out of their genie so that we can debuff them and go for the kill? To set up the battle in such a way that whatever they did chances are you could stop it? That took effort, and it was well worth it when you survived what your opponent threw at you and even though you had less damage you could still come out on top. The "better geared" argument holds no ground because I was using +3 TT90 with a +5 TT90 magic sword, and I was beating people of equal and even higher gear. Oh, and let's not forget that according to an earlier portion of this huge wall of text you stated that as a Sin you ran into no Clerics you couldn't beat as if it applies to everyone, so it's fair to assume that my statement here applies in the same way rendering your comment about gear worthless.
Fact: I've been playing this game in various capacities since early 2009, so don't even try to tell me 'I'm new' lol.
Fact: Kill counts? Always red? These mean little, as skilled pkers know. All this really signifies is that you killed a lot of people lower levelled or more poorly geared than yourself, and in itself says little about your ability to fight evenly with others in similar gear.
Fact: Until he can prove otherwise, there aren't any videos of Zanryu pking on his cleric against similar or superior-geared people, and as such, the only person we are currently relying on to decide his skill level is *gasp* his own word. On the other hand, you can view any number of the videos I've been continually uploading to pick apart my strategies and tactics at your LEISURE.
Here's a few I just found for you. I could never record very well due to lag, so I stuck to screenshots of my kills. Those are on my laptop, which regrettably is out of commission due to a heatsink malfunction. These will have to do, I had them on a flash drive. They aren't as good as showing you the exact gear, or a video, but I'm sure at least some people will remember the gear they had when I fought them. I'm not going to go so far out of my way to dig up screenshots, seeing as these were easy enough to get considering they were in a flash drive. In any case they show that I at least had experience pking people with similar gear or even those with better gear. Not to mention I do have a few videos up on my youtube channel of pking on my BM, which though it may not be a Cleric can still show I've got some skill at the game.
TT99 Cleric
TT99 Cleric go boom.
aps kitty cat (which should have screenshots somewhere else on the forum)
One of the better geared BMs of that time, was at least 4APS sparked at the time.
Fact: I'm as adaptable as I need to be. I have many combos I can cycle between if you start trying to predict what I'll do, which is very possible. Even so, knowing what I'll do is a far cry from being able to prevent it. For example, when fighting a psychic, I'm using my healing debuffs and ocassional attacks to nudge down their hp to 50%. A psychic knows EXACTLY what I'm trying to do. But a psychic simply does not have the capacity to clear that healing debuff faster than I can reapply it. Inevitably I'm able to set up a scenario where the psychic is seal of god-ed, or slept, at just above 50% hp. Then the psychic has a few choices to make based on how he/she guesses I'll proceed. Expel in case I do physical? Heart of steel in case I do magic? Soul of stunning in case I don't do fortify, or soul of relaliation to minimize the dmg from one of my attacks (taking into account that I may use fortify after all)? Belief (most psychics don't have a genie set up for this, incidentally)? Typically I do a mix of combos, and I'm keeping a very sharp eye on the psychics self-buffs to know how to proceed. I debuff both magical and physical defense so the psychic is never sure which type of dmg I'll do.
Usually there's a set best course of action, and unless you know the opponent's playstyle extremely well you're going to try to cover your bases. Sure, that Psychic has many options but Expel is the one that will most likely save them. Or even a Domain near or at the end of Seal of God. Or Believe>White Voodoo after sleep. You have an array of combos, they have an array of options to defend themselves. I'm not going to sit here and talk about what "could" happen in a fight, that's pointless because there are far too many variables on both ends.
If I'm feeling lucky, I'll do seal of gods, plume shot (do it right away in case you get sealed) to tick def charm, thunderball (if I need to bump their hp bit closer to half), debuff physical, magical, magical shackles, sleep (do this right after the thunderball if you suspect psy will use ad), and use extreme poison with razor feathers, hope for a crit. Sometimes I don't need it to end the fight. Now the beauty of this is, if they actually use expel, they still remain slept, so I switch to magic instead (always starting with mark of weakness first).
Small variations on a one trick pony is still a one trick pony. You can argue that it isn't, but if you rely on the same setup for any combo and only change the last attack or two it's still predictable. The only issue is that as of right now there are very few true counters to a Cleric's setup combo and they can use it quite a few times before being unable to do so anymore.
My ideal, hardest-to-block combo involves seal of gods when their hp is *just* above half, debuffing magical, physical, doing a thunderball (do it around 8s into the seal of gods in case you get sealed doing it), putting in magical shackles, sleep (their charm should tick right about now), mark of weakness, wield thunder or razor feathers plus click fortify, elven boon, great cyclone or plume shot (the 'or' means, you were watching their buffs, and seeing if they put in expel or heart of steel).
How is your ideal combo relevant? "ideal" means nothing in actual combat because the likelyhood of getting it off is slim. If the opponent makes good use of their resources they can get you to waste chi, genie, apo, or any combination of those and prevent you from doing what you consider ideal. Not really relevant to this discussion.
And while I'm at it, Sylvae: for somebody who talks a lot about pk, and feels comfortable commenting on other clerics, how about you put your $ where your mouth is: show me evidence that you, too, are a modern pk-er, and that what you have to say is actually relevant to this discussion. The thread is, after all, about which class is 'most OP', and I'm sure I'm not making a logical stretch to say this assumes endgame gear as well. Well?
Aeliah
Replies in red, though I't beginning to wonder why I bother. You're ignorant, dense, and far too cocky when you haven't really earned the right to be. Oh well. Stay classy thilly goothe.0 -
You know, I've been thinking some more.
Its possible that my standards are too high for what I call 'skilled'. I mean, at lvl 62, did your opponents even know what defense charms were? Did they have charms? Were their skills even levelled up? Frankly, I'm dubious.
Is what you learned back then, even relevant today?
When I fight somebody, I expect a few things out of them. I expect that they'll be charmed, they'll spam defense charms, that they'll use apoths without hesitation, that they will use a variety of apoths to best suit the situation. I expect them to have put time and money into the acquisition of a very decent genie, and that they've practiced with it. A lot. I expect that they have the best gear they can currently afford, and that they've put thought into which ornaments to use (physical or magical defense).
These are things I'd consider the minimum standards. These are things I would do pking on absolutely any character I own.
And yet, so many people don't do any of those things. Sometimes people in great gear don't do these things, which is particularly saddening. It can become very hard to tell which classes are truly 'OP' (if any) unless everybody is maximizing their potential by taking advantage of these basic things that all classes have access to. There are people I kill with my cleric with startling ease, that really I shouldn't be able to kill easily or at all. And when this happens, I know that they are likely not utilizing defense charms, or they have a poorly built genie, or they simply have not done any research as to why my skills do, so they make elementary mistakes.
Which is why simply killing somebody else doesn't speak very much to me.
Now me, I'm not looking to boost my kill counts in pk. Lower-geared, unskilled people will fall left and right to my cleric or my assassin if I choose to go on a killing spree. However, that doesn't interest me very much, and I choose not to (talking world pk here). I fight the best-geared, most-skilled people I can find, and sometimes, I'll admit, its a challenge to find somebody who will keep my interest.
Just one of the downsides to being a serious pker I guess.
Now. You. Sylvae. You say you learned many important lessons way back in the day. I'm sure you did. Pking as Cleric 101: keep your eyes open. Don't afk in pk zone. If the enemy sparks, don't just stand there. Wear a bloody mana charm! Use plume shell on cooldown. Remember to heal yourself.
Sure, lessons like these are are always relevant.
But things change. Morai updates, new gears... new strategies and tactics. You have to know more nowadays than you used to, because there are many more skills that do many new things. Put another way, almost every class has gained a lot of new ways in which to kill you in a fight, and to fight against these classes, you have to know about these skills and how they work... and how to counter them.
Here are some questions for you, Sylvae, many of which deal with thing you probably could not have learned until endgame, or until recent changes to Morai skills.
What should you do when a bm pulls you towards him? When he tele-stuns you?
What are several good responses to blade tornado?
Tell me what colored diminished vigor's icon is and why its dangerous?
What color is a psychic when they use their immune-to-dmg skill?
How much does a psychic-s -channel debuff slow your channeling by, and what should you do if you've already started channeling another skill?
What are some clues that a barb is thinking about using armageddon on you?
Why is jumping into the air a bad idea when fighting a barb, and under what circumstance would you do it anyways?
What is the best way to deal with an archer triple sparking against you?
An archer just used a skill far away from you and they now have 2 new buffs, one brown, one orange. What did the archer just do, and how should you counter it?
What do you do when an assassin triple sparks near you? Far away from you?
In a 1vs1, which veno skills should you be most worried about, and why?
How can you tell when a seeker is about to qpq you? What should you do if he does?
How would you go about fighting a mystic? What should you do if they try to use absorb soul on you, and why?
When would you choose to use pious blessing over a different dmg-absorbing shield?
What would your general approach to fighting a similarly-geared cleric be? (Incidentally my answer would be: don't [lol])
And: when was the last time you pked outside of nation wars?
Feel free to answer none or all of these as you choose. If you can answer some of these, feel free to ask me some questions of your own. I spend more time than I care to admit simply researching other classes, and thinking through mostly hypothetical situations.
If you refuse to, or if you can't answer many of these questions (using your own knowledge of course), there's really no reason why I should pay attention to what you have to say. Naturally, you can go look up things you don't know the answers to, and I encourage you to. I think it'd be great if you learned something you didn't know before. Just have the guts to say you didn't know before looking it up.
Every single class that somebody has ever called dangerous, every single dangerous combo, has *some* counter, or many counters. There are definitely ways to counter a cleric, which involve radically different genies from what a lot of people have as their 'general' pk genie, but its still quite possible. Belief/Faith is key. Heart of steel is also very useful.
So until somebody can genuinely prove otherwise, I still think that there is no OP class, and that the user determines just how dangerous a class is, via gear and skill.
Cheers,
AeliahYOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »You know, I've been thinking some more.
Its possible that my standards are too high for what I call 'skilled'. I mean, at lvl 62, did your opponents even know what defense charms were? Did they have charms? Were their skills even levelled up? Frankly, I'm dubious.
Is what you learned back then, even relevant today?
When I fight somebody, I expect a few things out of them. I expect that they'll be charmed, they'll spam defense charms, that they'll use apoths without hesitation, that they will use a variety of apoths to best suit the situation. I expect them to have put time and money into the acquisition of a very decent genie, and that they've practiced with it. A lot. I expect that they have the best gear they can currently afford, and that they've put thought into which ornaments to use (physical or magical defense).
These are things I'd consider the minimum standards. These are things I would do pking on absolutely any character I own.
And yet, so many people don't do any of those things. Sometimes people in great gear don't do these things, which is particularly saddening. It can become very hard to tell which classes are truly 'OP' (if any) unless everybody is maximizing their potential by taking advantage of these basic things that all classes have access to. There are people I kill with my cleric with startling ease, that really I shouldn't be able to kill easily or at all. And when this happens, I know that they are likely not utilizing defense charms, or they have a poorly built genie, or they simply have not done any research as to why my skills do, so they make elementary mistakes.
Which is why simply killing somebody else doesn't speak very much to me.
Now me, I'm not looking to boost my kill counts in pk. Lower-geared, unskilled people will fall left and right to my cleric or my assassin if I choose to go on a killing spree. However, that doesn't interest me very much, and I choose not to (talking world pk here). I fight the best-geared, most-skilled people I can find, and sometimes, I'll admit, its a challenge to find somebody who will keep my interest.
Just one of the downsides to being a serious pker I guess.
Now. You. Sylvae. You say you learned many important lessons way back in the day. I'm sure you did. Pking as Cleric 101: keep your eyes open. Don't afk in pk zone. If the enemy sparks, don't just stand there. Wear a bloody mana charm! Use plume shell on cooldown. Remember to heal yourself.
Sure, lessons like these are are always relevant.
But things change. Morai updates, new gears... new strategies and tactics. You have to know more nowadays than you used to, because there are many more skills that do many new things. Put another way, almost every class has gained a lot of new ways in which to kill you in a fight, and to fight against these classes, you have to know about these skills and how they work... and how to counter them.
Here are some questions for you, Sylvae, many of which deal with thing you probably could not have learned until endgame, or until recent changes to Morai skills.
What should you do when a bm pulls you towards him? When he tele-stuns you?
What are several good responses to blade tornado?
Tell me what colored diminished vigor's icon is and why its dangerous?
What color is a psychic when they use their immune-to-dmg skill?
How much does a psychic-s -channel debuff slow your channeling by, and what should you do if you've already started channeling another skill?
What are some clues that a barb is thinking about using armageddon on you?
Why is jumping into the air a bad idea when fighting a barb, and under what circumstance would you do it anyways?
What is the best way to deal with an archer triple sparking against you?
An archer just used a skill far away from you and they now have 2 new buffs, one brown, one orange. What did the archer just do, and how should you counter it?
What do you do when an assassin triple sparks near you? Far away from you?
In a 1vs1, which veno skills should you be most worried about, and why?
How can you tell when a seeker is about to qpq you? What should you do if he does?
How would you go about fighting a mystic? What should you do if they try to use absorb soul on you, and why?
When would you choose to use pious blessing over a different dmg-absorbing shield?
What would your general approach to fighting a similarly-geared cleric be? (Incidentally my answer would be: don't [lol])
And: when was the last time you pked outside of nation wars?
Feel free to answer none or all of these as you choose. If you can answer some of these, feel free to ask me some questions of your own. I spend more time than I care to admit simply researching other classes, and thinking through mostly hypothetical situations.
If you refuse to, or if you can't answer many of these questions (using your own knowledge of course), there's really no reason why I should pay attention to what you have to say. Naturally, you can go look up things you don't know the answers to, and I encourage you to. I think it'd be great if you learned something you didn't know before. Just have the guts to say you didn't know before looking it up.
Every single class that somebody has ever called dangerous, every single dangerous combo, has *some* counter, or many counters. There are definitely ways to counter a cleric, which involve radically different genies from what a lot of people have as their 'general' pk genie, but its still quite possible. Belief/Faith is key. Heart of steel is also very useful.
So until somebody can genuinely prove otherwise, I still think that there is no OP class, and that the user determines just how dangerous a class is, via gear and skill.
Cheers,
Aeliah
You need to stop with these walls of text. I'm trying to watch tv. I'm gonna make this short and sweet and only respond to a few of the things you said here. You say you only fight those that are skilled and well geared, but I recall a video of you fighting two BMs that were not very skilled. Their locks were sloppy, the couldn't coordinate their Smacks, and both of them failed to keep Magic Marrow up at all times. One of them doing that is acceptable if you're focusing on keeping them locked down, but both of them managed to let it go down while remaining unslept or sealed at certain points. That's the sign of a bad BM.
Every class and combo has counters sure, but while skill does play a part there are certain things that are overpowered. Sins used to be very overopwered, if you deny this then you're everything I've stated previously, ignorant and the like. Now Purify Spell is overpowered, specifically Wizards with it. As the game changes and new things get added different things become overpowered because PWE has no idea how to properly balance their game. It's just how it is, I'd love if things were balanced but as of right now that's not the case.
Oh, and those questions you asked Sylv, they're situational at best. You two won't have the same playstyle and as you said yourself there's different ways to counter different things. You can't ask someone to answer questions like that and be taken seriously when there's different things they can do based on their playstyle, available apo, and genie setup.
But really, stop with the walls of text.0 -
A reply specifically to Zanryu: I don't believe that you were not skilled, and I don't disbelieve that clerics couldn't fight. To clarify and simplify my position from the post above me, a cleric in the past had to be more skilled or better geared to do well. I'm not doubting you were skilled, or that you could kill superior-geared people on your cleric. You have (ty) shown some video evidence, and I do recall that you were one of the best cancel-casters on your bm I have EVER come across. What I do take issue with is the belief that clerics were GOOD at solo pk. As a class. Playing another class, demonstrating same skill, another class should do better. Clerics had too many offensive limitations.
Basic example:
On my assassin, there was no class I could no defeat. Defeating people above my gear lvl wasn't the exception, it was the norm. Back then assassins had huge advantages in 1vs1; I was almost unstoppable. Other assassins had the best chance of defeating me, of equal or better gear to my own. Assassins offense in terms of how fast they could kill other classes and each other was a stronger defense than some of the best r9 +12 gear you could get on another class. Consider the tempest skill: in the time it takes a cleric to channel and cast that skill, the old trump-card of a cleric which you would hope to bypass the enemy's charm, an assassin could kill most players several times over with straight out, no-chi-necessary dps.
On my cleric, I could hold my own against most classes, as long as I was similar in gear. With a few lucky crits (heh it can happen to anybody) I could defeat people better than me. Against well geared dps sins, my chance was almost nil. Archers defeated me with humilitating regularity because my gear wasn't good enough to tank a few hits after being purged, to give me time to rebuff or put plume shell, and clerics aren't exactly able to outrun or outdps an archer, which forced clerics to fight a defensive battle. The archer created far more opportunities to kill (simply quickshotting and stunning) which cost the archer no chi; it gave the archer chi! Archers could do all this without having to worry much about sudden deadly offensive counters from the cleric (the cleric could not match the archer's offense even remotely, and tempest takes a long-*** time to channel). As I see it, to even fight against an archer back then, or an assassin, a cleric had to have a fairly significant gear advantage to have reliable success.
This basic example demonstrates to me that, back then, clerics were not a strong solo pk class.
To pk on a cleric was to see how long you could survive, and hope that the enemy got frusturated and expended too much of their resources (chi/apoth/genie). To hope that the enemy made a mistake before you did, and to seize the opening fast enough. In other words, your strategy was defend, get the enemy to waste their resources, then attack when they are weakened. Against smart pkers who knew what the cleric was up to, this advantage was minimized. Two can play the waiting game after all. If the game is to get the enemy to expend chi, well, archers, psychics, venomancers, blademasters, barbarians, and wizards can all use some form of control skill without expending chi, allowing them to gain chi while you gain none. Assassins hardly count, because they are chi-machines... oh yes, their tackling slash gives them chi too. In comparison, every movement-stopping or skill-disabling skill a cleric has takes chi.
Against people the cleric could not one-shot, the clerics lack of dps made killing others more difficult than it was for other classes. After expending sleep, if the person wasn't dead after your initial attack, the rest of your attack was likely to be a failure, since you had no great way of preventing a counter, which counters there are a-plenty. Recall how clerics used to have the worst damage? In a straight up attack vs attack, a cleric will lose most encounters; in order to attack, clerics had to, and still have to when not in violet dance mode, mix in heals.
Then there is the completely defensive strategy of spam-healing. You can heal as much as you like against an archer, but when that archer purges you all your heals don't mean a darn thing. You could heal as much as you wanted, but a sin would still kill you through those heals, and if they triple sparked, they could burn out your plume shell in under 2 seconds tops. You can heal all you like, but a wizard could still one shot you if they debuff with 79 + spark from genie, unless you stop to purify the debuff, which (if sage) costs chi.
I sincerely believe that a cleric's best strategies were trumped by other classes best strategies, certainly in 1vs1 anyways. Recognizing this, smart pkers wanting to dd in pk didn't choose clerics. A cleric in a group as support is another situation entirely; your allies do the dmg for you, and you get to stay 100% on defense keeping your dds alive. After all, clerics do support best: its what they were originally designed for. In group pk, pure defense is a viable strategy. But when the CLERIC had to do the damage him/herself, you faced an uphill battle. It could be done: but other classes did it better.
Which is why I still say that clerics only recently got the offensive upgrades necessary to be a genuine threat all by themselves: solo, not needing a group of dds to do the killing for you. I don't think my position is mutually exclusive with what you've shown: yes, clerics can kill; yes, they could fight; but---yes, other classes killed faster/more efficiently/simply *better*; yes, clerics had to be more skilled than the enemy to be successful in pk.
AeliahYOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »You know, I've been thinking some more.
Its possible that my standards are too high for what I call 'skilled'. I mean, at lvl 62, did your opponents even know what defense charms were? Did they have charms? Were their skills even levelled up? Frankly, I'm dubious.
Is what you learned back then, even relevant today?
etc.
Ok, stop here. You made a challenge, you said that unless I skilled up faster than you, I'd be left in the dust. Because your gear is much higher. I specifically answered your challenge, and like in the past listed things that require knowing how your class operates at a rather deeper level than the "this skill does X damage." And instead of acknowledging what I actually wrote, in relation to your challenge, you make a new challenge and totally disregard the previous one.
See, I've done this stupid game before when discussing Cleric AoE. I'm not playing that dumb game again. You sent the challenge, I answered. So to you I posit these things:
Do you even know what the heck I am referring to?
Are you going to hide behind, "it's a glitch," while ignoring the fact that if you played at all well, you would have found the same ones and at least known what I was talking about?
Have you really discovered anything that isn't derivative of someone else's work in the past 2 months? (and if you're sharded JoSD, you're welcome)
See, before making a new challenge for me to prove my worth, you might want to close off the one you issued previous. I'm not going to jump through a new hoop each time I show you up, if you can't match it. At least earn your arrogance, before wearing it.0 -
Clerics have always been magic sins in 1v1. b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I
Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »EDIT: Well, in the brief time I've been back, and for the brief amount of time I've played my cleric getting morai skills, I've learned:
How to cast a spell from mid jump, and also the ability to immediately sprout wings right after and take off with no acceleration time.
Thought up a genie combo and weapon swap I haven't seen mentioned on any caster forum, as well as a genie combo dealing with the above.
To cancel cast the morai skills for free healing, without needing the target to cast.
Learned an adjustment made to an old skill, that adds in relation to current skills.
Now this is just about 2 months of playing only the slightest amount, but how much have you improved the past 2 months?
Ah missed this. Ok lets see.
Using a spell in mid air: click the skill, press spacebar, skill goes off, press wings, press accelerate, press spacebar+s ... yes? I don't tend to do this for a few reasons. 1) prolonging the time you are in air or 'free-jump' is very dangerous, if you get caught in a stun or immobilize, you cannot purify to break free of it, only use genie. Hope that if an archer just caught you with an immobilize, that you don't get purged while they freely aps you at maximum dmg. 2) while in air, my purify on weapon won't result in me flying faster; often being on the ground is actually safer. 3) if I'm attempting to kill somebody, jumping into the air halves my dmg while keeping the dmg from person on the ground 100%. As a defensive move, jumping into air and flying backwards is great, but I disagree with attempting to use skills while in mid-air. I can, of course, double jump and pull out my wings. With my current set up, I could improve on my ability to accelerate by shuffling skills around a bit to put accelerate right next to flying icon.
Weapon-swapping is definitely something I am familiar with. For many months I was the cleric who had both +12 r9 weapon and +12 r8r weapon. I swapped them all the time; refer to my first-ever PV video, where you can see one of the last examples of my dual-weapon system. While it definitely had its uses, not having to switch weapons definitely is superior. 1) getting caught in a stun while in regular r9 weapon could be lethal. 2) the extra time it took to click between weapons slowed my offensive counters.
Cancel casting morai skills I've tested and it didn't work for me... the healing comes after the channel is completed. If you say it stills works, I'll look into it more ofc. I have never heard about being able to use these skills without having a target SELECTED... and from my experience it can't be an ally, or a baby pet.
Adjustment to old skill? Clearly thunderball is what you are referring to. It is one of my favorite skills for killing the especially difficult-to-kill people. I use it before their charm ticks, then when their charm does tick, they are sustaining a bit extra dmg from the damage over time portion of the skill, leading to higher chance that I can chew through their hp before their charm ticks again. Mostly used on other r9rr +12s, and on barbs/seekers. Disadvantages include: if skill crits, only the initial portion crits (leading you to wish that you'd used wield thunder instead), and it only gives 5 chi, whereas sage wield thunder gives average of 30 chi (50% of time being 15, and 50% of time being 45).
Back two months? Improvements? Since starting my Cleric Pk Video thread I like to think I've made significant improvements to my technique. I have, ofc, made enormous advancements to my gear, as can be evidenced through my videos...
If this conversation is a battle of the wits, you just tried to block my offensive with another offensive, and I've successfully countered with a defense and a subsequent offense. You still haven't answered any of *my* questions. And telling me you've been back for only 2 months after a long absence isn't a great way to convince me that you have the authority or ability to debate the pros and cons of modern cleric pking. Just sayin...
Cheers,
AeliahYOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »Now. You. Sylvae. You say you learned many important lessons way back in the day. I'm sure you did. Pking as Cleric 101: keep your eyes open. Don't afk in pk zone. If the enemy sparks, don't just stand there. Wear a bloody mana charm! Use plume shell on cooldown. Remember to heal yourself.
Sure, lessons like these are are always relevant.
But things change. Morai updates, new gears... new strategies and tactics. You have to know more nowadays than you used to, because there are many more skills that do many new things. Put another way, almost every class has gained a lot of new ways in which to kill you in a fight, and to fight against these classes, you have to know about these skills and how they work... and how to counter them.
Here are some questions for you, Sylvae, many of which deal with thing you probably could not have learned until endgame, or until recent changes to Morai skills.
What should you do when a bm pulls you towards him? When he tele-stuns you?
What are several good responses to blade tornado?
Tell me what colored diminished vigor's icon is and why its dangerous?
What color is a psychic when they use their immune-to-dmg skill?
How much does a psychic-s -channel debuff slow your channeling by, and what should you do if you've already started channeling another skill?
What are some clues that a barb is thinking about using armageddon on you?
Why is jumping into the air a bad idea when fighting a barb, and under what circumstance would you do it anyways?
What is the best way to deal with an archer triple sparking against you?
An archer just used a skill far away from you and they now have 2 new buffs, one brown, one orange. What did the archer just do, and how should you counter it?
What do you do when an assassin triple sparks near you? Far away from you?
In a 1vs1, which veno skills should you be most worried about, and why?
How can you tell when a seeker is about to qpq you? What should you do if he does?
How would you go about fighting a mystic? What should you do if they try to use absorb soul on you, and why?
When would you choose to use pious blessing over a different dmg-absorbing shield?
What would your general approach to fighting a similarly-geared cleric be? (Incidentally my answer would be: don't [lol])
And: when was the last time you pked outside of nation wars?
Finishing up The Grey, then passing out. Killled a bottle of VSOP Hennessy, and it's about 4 AM. So if I don't respond for here, it's because I'm out like a light.
Gear deals alot with these questions, though I am impatient and about to say F it and get R8 recast thanks to merchanting and NWing on BM. So with that and 1.5K event, I'll go with R8r +10 as my basic answer for these.
First off I'd stay mainly in the air for the first bit. As my BM already proved, sins suck in air for their skills. And my cleric already has more mdef and the same pdef as my current BM. AD and wing drop followed by popping wings after a 10M or so drop gives the finger to them, and allows me to set up properly for whatever combo. Though as usual I will likely Cyclone then aftercast cancel Chromatic Seal, with a full cancel if the damage of Cyclone is high enough.
BMs don't have tele-stuns, they have Reckless Rush which is a finisher when your health is already low. You must be thinking sins, in which case AD to wing drop, GL or WoP should they catch me during the drop. I learned a long time ago stacking IB when they are next to me is utterly idiotic, have to trust the charm to do its job and prep with it in mind.
For BT, unless they've RotPed and then BTed because they don't give a damn about chi, pop wings with accel or just HP out. While usually people use Cloud Sprint, it only gives them around 9.5m/s movement. It's easy as hell unless they somehow lock you down in it, which usually requires another team member. If I can lock down 2 people and just IG through it, and both are high refine, good chance I'd do that and mock them in WC. BT by itself is a joke to get out of, and takes a while to proc its first damage hit at that.
And my back just had sympathetic pain with the dude who failed to cross that ravine, ouch.
The psychic skills require them to actually use them, and that occurs maybe once in an entire NW instance. Most are concerned about getting the damage/kill, so they focus on skills that help them gain that. Which is why I allow their SoV to get some damage to the point that it ticks my charm and I can kill jaozi, but then AD when I finish them off. So is this a theoretical debate to deal with something that really never happens? Because in those cases, I whip out my Mickey Mouse Charter Member card, and sing Kumbaja. And I might feel bad, if DW wasn't known to be even worse in pvp. People are simply looking to boost their contri, and unless they see a R999 UV cleric, they aren't going to DV.
And do notice, this counts the psychic's -channel as well. To count that, would be as inane as counting Magebane when fighting a BM. It simply doesn't freaking happen. The only time it occurs, is when you're fighting an OP squad. And with that you either drop wings and HP away on the ground, or kiss the arrows darting into your body while you're in the air. Which will require either proc (not skill), or someone coming along to save their ***. Otherwise they defensive pot (if they have purify), or IG and hope someone comes along.
Big clues a barb is about to arma? They sit their and tank a crapload of people hitting them. When you see them do it, it can mean they are soaking damage before leaving, or building chi to arma. At that point check your range, and start stacking you health debuffs. They will typically turn humanoid form and alot of the time a debuff for phys def is involved for set-up. The big key is a combination of ToP, and demon BO which will show you a crit boost icon, assuming they don't already have a base faction buff already going. It's pretty easy to avoid for everyone really, and they typically void it when they get purged from veno or spear spam.
The main barb worries involve being on the ground with them, and even my BM hasn't ever had to fear them in fights solo. So it would most likely involve Ancestral Rage locking me in place, preventing movement away. Regardless, I'd AD or IG becuase it is either a set-up to a collaboration, or I can expect a Arma coming soon after the typical set-up. And I'd be clicking the heck out of Guardian Light if I AD'ed, or HP if I IGed. No sense hangning around, and it's always been fun to jerk barbs around.
When it's good to jump? Whenever getting away from a barb expected to arma, and somehow everything is in CD. The extra height adds to over-all distance, and can cancel it out if (i just got robbed on that movie damnit, liam neeson should have won) you manage to jump beyond the max range. This is usually on newer players though, so HP plus jump would be preferrable.
Archer triple sparks? ****ing leave. Are you married to that spot? Hell, that goes for just about any class really. Leave, kill others, and then come back. If you actually have some control of the situation (OP squad and landlocked from any reinforce) feel free to Plume Shell during spark, then sleep them once spark ends. Stack em and drop em once spark ends. Definitely NOT advised unless everyone involved on your side is on Teamspeak or that other thingy.
One brown one orange...... my BM hunts R9 archers and even I don't know what the heck you're talking about. Are you referring to their gimpy Winged Shelled, which quick skill break, or are you referring to their anti-stun skill Wings of Grace? I mean it's cutesy to try to hide it, but it effects BMs alot more than clerics. So chances are, I've seen it. But more importantly, they are far away. What the **** do I care? Are they harrying the flagger on my team? Because if not, I got a hand gesture for their actions. It doesn't involve buttons.
Let's see, an assassin triple spark near me. My BM trip sparked back, Smacked em, then Roar'ed and APS'ed while laughing. Cleric if flying would drop wing, laugh, then most likely silent seal and nuke em. Because Sins that dumb usually have terrible resists, and sleeping them would see someone else nuke em. Really as long as Plume Shell goes up, and with mana charm and mana food, why does a sin even rate mention? They would literally have to completely surprise someone, and trip sparking: biggest coming out ceremony the world has ever known. It almost requires a pat on the head and a gold sticker for trying. It's just that close to the special olympics, and I mock the hell out of sins that even try their stupid jump stun. I think it's a pre-requisite to breathing.
For my cleric, Lucky Scarab. That would stun, then their damn phoenix would come up and stun lock while they go fox form and purge every defense so someone else can whoop me while I am stunned and can't do ****. Purge is the stupid obvious answer, but without something else there is nothing tieing me there to dumb along with them. So lucky scarab would be the best set up for them, though AD could neutralize. Then it's a lucky proc on the Myriads to watch out for: but again, without the purge who gives a ****. So it's more the sequence to watch, really.
QPQ? It wouldn't be considered so OP if everyone had the chance to sit and stare at them while they set it up, now would it? It's usually a pain in the ***, because they hit you while you are busy elsewhere. And in a stunlock, it's pretty much lube your cheeks praying it doesn't hurt so much.
But alot of the drama queens love their little crimson powders, and since their APS sucks it's a pretty big red fricking flag some QPQ is gonna wallow out someone's canal. But hey, if your metal resistance drops while you hopefully have plume shell up, you may want to hit GL at some point. Or even WoP and get the hell out of there to Purify. It's not like it costs chi for a decent cleric.
For Absorb Soul, can I just point out WoP would totally negate it even though it really shouldn't? No, ok.
I'm also gonna assume I'm in my +phys def and garn shard gear, because my wood farming gear with 20k wood def would be ridiculous. Even though it's currently in my inventory. **** it, let's say I'm UV, that should even **** up.
Well, I should have my apoth charms up. I just leveled the ****er, so damn well I'm gonna use it. Though I do recall something about Absorb Soul not being blocked by....I believe it was just DEF and such. So should hit the phys def charm unless I'm hugging a BM for world peace. If it also bypassed that somehow, then since I'm not hugging my MasterCard I'll just have to choose my self-respect. But pretty sure the charm would win out here.
Pious Blessing over the others? When I plan to ****ing die. Hahahaha, no but seriously when I plan to die. It takes time to cast, so without alot of -chan it falls too much into the stun bait range for me to be comfortable with. I mean even plume shell channels faster, and casting that at point blank range is begging for death. It's either up previously, or an instant is saving my buttocks. Using it during a fight against say a BM is like saying you think they are too stupid to pull off a stunlock. Guess how many clerics live through that? I would honestly use it more to lure out their chi and genie skills, than I would to save myself in this instance. Because it would be flat out stupid to do it.
Fighting a similarly geared cleric? Get them arrogant. Make them play to a certain style, by pretending to do the same. And once they commit enough, change it. Start flying to get them flying. Assuming it's not NW, you can set up situations where you are on the ground, they are in the air. You can divebomb past them and use genies skills that specifically benfit from you on ground, them in air, and them close, to amp damage. And use a sac strike weapon in hand when you do it. Swap back when you pass and either pop wings or land. Most clerics are ridiculously repetitive, and changing up even the slightest thing has them stopping and rethinking exactly what they are doing.
But at the same time, the hell does 1 on 1 prove? It's alot of fun in DT, but so is winning a 6 on 1. It doesn't prove much, and with the rumor for future shards coming out, it could prove ridiculously inane to even attempt. You're basically forces to showcase alot of your tricks, for no actual gain. And then an archer will write a post showcasing it to everyone, and then you're screwed. So just play dumb, and smile while raking in the money. Mission accomplished.
That's as much as I can focus on at the moment, if something was missed reiterate for me to mock. Cuz I'm likely going to still be feeling good in the morning.0 -
Seekers for sure with their high def levels and sacrifcial slash+QPQ debuff combo can drop pretty much anyone without using any chi what so ever. Not to mention edged blur hitting through AD and IG.Archer Build:
pwcalc.com/d38eec6e1f27c7a6
Sin Build:
pwcalc.com/d74f267d3be727840 -
Interesting interesting... looking at your answers, it did broaden my perspective a little bit. There isn't always one right answer, there may be several right answers, depending on gear, playstyle, and other factors.
Just in case you were interested, here's what I was thinking (there is nothing particularly special about these questions, just stuff I pulled out of my hat, so to speak, lol). You were mostly right on most questions, partly right on some, and a bit wrong on just a few.
~
Bm pulls you towards himself -> use fortify on genie, walk out of his (practically inevitable) stun; if plume shell is in and its fresh, consider doing nothing and break bms stun lock when fortify is ready later, or if you just want to save genie; if by pulling you bm brought you into group of enemies, ad while in the process of being pulled, so you can walk out of the stun and the subsequent dmg
Bm 'tele-stuns' you -> this was a trick question; its actually, as you correctly pointed out, a tele-immobilize; 3 seconds long. Use fortify, walk out of it, but beware of bm using a skill to slow your movement speed; good idea to plume shell as well
Bm uses blade tornado -> if stunned, use expel, not absolute domain, because it lasts longer, fly away asap; if not stunned, use holy path; do NOT put in plume shell/guardian light, because blade tornado ignores those shells; do not try to use defense charms, it ignores those too; if you don't have good gear, don't try outhealing it, it hits way too hard; if you do have good gear, consider using vanguard spirit (sage) or stream of rejuvenation (demon) to boost physical defense, then ironhearts, but not recommended, because your charm is practically guaranteed to tick
Psy using diminished vigor -> they only bother if you have really good gear, which is why you haven't experienced it much yet; without it a psy may not be able to kill well-geared players; its color is blue, and don't bother purifying it, because you can't, just be aware that its on, and play safer; it increases cd on charm ticks from 10 to 13 seconds, hence its danger to you
Psy using their immune-to-dmg skill; it stuns them and turns them a pale icy-blue color; their hp is filled to 100% after. If you see it, build chi up/attack somebody else, nothing you can do to them till its gone
Psy -channeling skill increases channeling speed by 80% for 15 seconds (sage) or 100% for 12s (demon); it is far too dangerous to leave on, so you should purify. If you have just started channeling a wield thunder, thunderball, mark of weakness or especially tempest, more total time is usually saved by using esc key to cancel the channeling, hitting purify, then redoing the previous skill
Barb, clues he is gonna arma -> a sudden switch to human form followed up by penetrate armor and tangling mire; clever barbs realize tree of protection is too easily spotted and furthermore uses too much genie energy, and opt for tangling mire instead; furthermore, a barb will often arma right after using their 20% chance purge skill 'clean sweep' whether or not it purged or not (they hope for a purge and want to use the arma before you can react), so learn to recognize the animation of Clean Sweep (bright punch/spear of light).
Barb, jumping in the air can be bad idea -> skill called berserker's wrath, uses 2 sparks, does triple damage to targets in air, and has a chance to prevent you from flying (debuff that can't be purified) for 30 seconds; this skill can one-shot many many ppl if crits, zerks, or especially zerk-crits. Consider that if a barb hits 1k on you, this skill by default will do 3k, and a zerk crit will do 12k. Now consider that the barb may hit considerably more than 1k on you; may have you debuffed; may have double or triple sparked previously to hit even harder. Flying is very dangerous!
Barb, jumping in the air, when is it good idea -> once we realize a barb is aware of how dangerous Berserker's Wrath is, it can become an easy way to get the barb to waste 2 sparks. Before jumping into air, put in plume shell and wings of protection. We want the barb to use Berserker's Wrath to make him waste chi, knowing that it will not kill us (though it may tank the mana charm), then resume fighting barb on ground, but now we have chi advantage over barb.
Archer, triple sparking on you -> as you stated, run. Unless you've been fighting archer a while and know that his genie will likely be in cooldown, you cannot say if the archer will use ad, which would foil your sleep, or will surge, which would foil your Seal of the Gods. If you are close range to the archer and know you couldn't get away in time, consider running up very close to the archer and using Guardian Light, then timing elven boon just after his spark is finished, THEN using sleep/seal of gods.
Archer, used strange skill and has two new buffs -> the archer just used galvanic aura; their crit is increased by 25% for the next 5-9 hits (with high soulforce archers, it'll be 9; low soulforce archers, 5), and their range increased by +6 for next 30 seconds. What this means is they'll hit you from further away than you'd normally expect, and that the next few attacks that land on you will almost certainly crit. Holy path away, or put in plume shell and vanguard spirit and prepare to watch your mana charm take a big hit, hope that you don't get purged on first few hits.
Assassin triple sparks near you -> gear dependent. I would plume shell, hit mana pot, vanguard spirit, then try firing control skills onto sin in the hopes that one of them sticks (elven boon, silent seal, chromatic seal). With lesser gear I would holy path away if out of occult ice range. If close to sin, I would consider expending a vacuity powder or fortify + ig or shadow binder powder, and resume my offense while kiting small amounts, after making sure to use plume shell
Veno, 1vs1, which skills are most fearsome? -> gear dependant. For me, in 1vs1 purge isn't so scary because I can rebuff. The truly nasty ones are chi burn (they suck away 150 chi in exchange for 50 chi of their own), and turn-you-into-tiger seal, which drops you if you are flying, and which cannot be purified by any means (they use it to build nice stun locks). If the veno is demon, they will also combine chi burn with their Mo zun's taunt, making you lose 200 chi every time, which is very difficult to counter, and really reduces your options. Best counter is to get them slept or sealed before they can use chi burn on you
Seeker, when is he about to qpq -> inevitably they start with blade affinity, which looks something like inner harmony that an assassin uses, a quick whirl of light by the seeker's head. You can recognize it easily on a sage seeker because in addition to the light brown -channel buff they get, they also temporarily get a short-term, green tidal protection buff (like what you see on assassins). Counters can include ensuring you plume shell before the qpq lands, hitting will surge so you can purify the debuffs before the seeker lands a dmg skill on you, sage vanguard to boost your physical defense, or offensive counters like chromatic seal or seal of the gods (but be warned, these have a 50% chance to fail because of the tidal protection buff from blade affinity)
Mystic, how to fight -> with difficulty, avoid fighting 1vs1 if possible. They are very good at defending your combo without resorting to genie, due to their fast, powerful bulk heal. Your best option is to bypass their charm with a razor feathers crit; you need the full combo (seal of gods, healing debuffs, magical/physical defense debuffs, chromatic seal, mark of weakness, double spark, razor feathers, elven boon if still alive (hope for a seal), and then plume shot or great cyclone. If this doesn't work, not much will.
Mystic, if they use absorb soul -> in this case you are wrong, do not bother putting in any dmg-absorbing or reducing shells/shield, because absorb soul ignores them; it also ignores defense charms. It acts, in other words, exactly like blade tornado, though not quite as dangerous. If you see mystic channeling absorb soul, purify; absorb soul does double dmg if the debuff from nature's vengeance is on you, so purifying that halves the dmg from absorb soul instantly. If you've already purified, consider using vanguard spirit/stream of rejuvenation to increase physical defense, because physical defense is the only thing absorb soul takes into consideration (oh, it ignores your def lvls too, also like blade tornado). If you are stunned and cannot do any of these things, expel, ad, or tree of protection (expel may backfire if they can still kill you with magic).
When to use pious blessing over different dmg-absorbing shield -> pious blessing cannot be purged. In fights against multiple people, where you cannot predict if you'll get purged (example, veno + archers involved), or if you are almost certain you will get purged but instantly need a way to keep yourself alive longer, pious blessing will help more than a shield; in fact, by using pious blessing, you can save your shields for after the purge you know or suspect is coming. Basically, when fighting a lot of people at once, especially if your guardian light is in cooldown, and where plume shell won't be enough because of magic dds, pious blessing > shells.
Cleric, how to fight -> same as mystic. With difficulty, avoid if possible, but otherwise seal of gods, mark of weakness, healing debuffs, sleep, double spark, hope for a crit to bypass charm.
Last time I pked outside of nation wars -> couple days ago
~
Cheers,
AeliahYOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »Not to mention edged blur hitting through AD and IG.
Pretty sure this is in duels only, not actual pk, but I'm not 100% sure, if somebody else wants to comment...YOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »Pretty sure this is in duels only, not actual pk, but I'm not 100% sure, if somebody else wants to comment...
it doesn't.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Heehee, didn't delete you post fast enough there, archer YOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
Seems here is a goon-leveled cleric with little too high ego going on.. * Sigh *
Guys, PK isn't black-and-white. Tactics change, classes change, places change, the tiredness level of one player changes etc..
I do not believe in most OP PK class at all. That is just me but in my opinion in PWI history there always have been and will be some "top classes" in PK and "weaker classes" in PK. Any of these "top classes" can fall bit behind, make a mistake or just be too hard to control for players effectively enough. Also any of the "weak classes" can turn into unstoppable killing machine WHEN and IF their player has tactic, he has eyes, he is prepared to all possible situations as well as he can and he is aware he can loose but he can also win.
Behind classes there are always players, not computers. In my opinion this makes a bit needless to think which class is above all. There are players who cover very well the weak points of one class and there are classes with no much weak points but the players aren't too aware of controlling their class and so on.
We can, however, always discuss about PK situations and the top classes in general shining there but lets not forget to specify what kind of PK we are talking about... NW, TW, open world PK, 1vs1, squad vs squad, massive load of players vs other massive load of players, 2 vs 1....
Not arguing here, just bringing out my honest opinion. If someone disagrees with it it's their opinion. I am not saying I am right.
Please put down the huge egos. We all are players, human. We should have equal rights to speak regardless of the character level in avatar, lack of PK videos, lack of this and that, nationality, grammatic errors - you name it.0 -
^ The poster above is me, I had wrong account logged on, sorry.Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101
Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 470 -
Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »^ The poster above is me, I had wrong account logged on, sorry.
*cough* Please feel free to check out the 3 PV videos I posted... link to youtube channel below... guarantee that I am not goons-leveled ;o
In general, I agree with you 100%, the whole idea of an OP class is far too vague. Any OP-ness is situational at best.
AeliahYOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
seekers with a well known combo can zerkcrit skills that can actual deal something very close to "true damage" (ss fortify qpq ion heart batto) if you dont have heart of steel on genie its GG, they see stealth, they also have 40 def lvl more than other classes and they are HAs, they also have a better version of wizard's spatial reversion
psys unpurgeable souls combined with purify, soulburn, psy will and ranged CCs are OP, but to get a def level advantage they need actually to destroy their atk level and that's ok, seeker have those def levels just for free...
archers well are just broken 2 no chi cost leaps, purge, full chi skill, 2x anti-CC, any kind of ranged CC, 30 sec amp, stealth, at least they are LAs... but still u can pop flyer stealth and leapx2 away
imo sins are underestimated cause majority of them were aps noobs...and aps is just outdated... a sage dph sin can really destroy any class (cept maybe archers and surely seekers)
wizards can have op damage but its really easy to counter undinespark, CC or kite them, also once they get their stone barrier purged they are 1-2shot
to the cleric that posted above well i am not judging your gameplay w.e. but getting killed by a cleric imo its a shame... also i get mad when in mass pvp (tw nw) cleric goes dding instead of healing the real DDs...
just heart of steel man... and dont tell me cleric can kill equal geared chars with phys damage skills0 -
It's like I've told others...clerics are continually underestimated, because nobody knows all that much about how the new skills gave clerics such an enormous offensive boost. It has been a VERY very long time since I met somebody that gave me problems in multiple 1vs1 fights, and in group pk, I'm still as indispensable as ever as a support.
I mean, at this point I'd prefer that more people know about how dangerous I am, because honestly its getting boring beating the same r9rr people with the same combos. They should know better by know. In part though i can understand; there aren't enough clerics yet to justify massive genie overhauls just to fight me. Even so until they prepare genies and counters for me, I'll continue to dominate most people I fight against, regardless of their gear.
And hell yes I can kill people with physical dmg, lol. Are you still thinking of that +5 tt90 cleric who you saw in your last bh run? My plume shot packs 134 attack lvls, and I can, with my tangling mire genie plus dimensional seal, debuff your physical defense nice and low if I want to, and amp it 20% besides with extreme poison. It makes for a good switchup on bms using magic marrow without demon-belling, on light armor in general (if somebody is near dying and a wield thunder would be too slow), and arcanes (wizards excepted).YOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310 -
Aeliah should realize there's only very very few clerics with full R9rr +12 (or 10, whichever you have) and JoSD gear sets. Or Azzazin, or whoever it is that owns that account, I don't even know anymore.
You are only looking at clerics from your own perspective, any toon with full R9rr +10/12 and JoSD sharded gear would be crazy overpowered against the regular geared people.
You're too biased, in my opinion. Not to mention your gigantic ego in your last post.0 -
_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Aeliah should realize there's only very very few clerics with full R9rr +12 (or 10, whichever you have) and JoSD gear sets. Or Azzazin, or whoever it is that owns that account, I don't even know anymore.
You are only looking at clerics from your own perspective, any toon with full R9rr +10/12 and JoSD sharded gear would be crazy overpowered against the regular geared people.
You're too biased, in my opinion. Not to mention your gigantic ego in your last post.
;P Well with power comes ego - in most cases. Aeliah is the best cleric on DW atm, no doubt, but he should seriously consider keeping a lower profile or he's going to shoot himself in the foot.
And Aeliah your right, we dont want to gear genies with heart of steel and faith just for you. Requires a 91+ lp genie to even get a decent setup, and for tw genie it jsut wont work for alot, as you cannot have AD+faith+cloud eruption same genie. And as the situation is now, there is no reasoning to gear genie towards 1 or 2 clerics on server, if its gonna make someone less effective agaisnt the resrt of the server. You greatness relay heavyly on our will not to get faith and heart of steel, dont make it bigger than it is.105 - 105 - 105 (14th march 2014)
Join date: November 2008 - HT.0 -
I m tired of reading these essays. Please no more super duper long replies explaining the same thing. I have my English class for that[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
-
In CoD we call these people "tryhards"b:chuckle ...you know the ones who run around only using a smg and akimbo mp's thinking they are hot stuff then call you a cheater when you take their guns and get a nuke or 2. Y so srs?0
-
problem wiht aeliah is that she always kill ppl that are not match for him. once she get some1 that match his gears he start giving invalid arguments.
one example: when islashu completly teached him how ot pk wiht a sin.
yes ofc, his sin is op, i never managed to kill his sin in a 1 vs 1, but he always had better gears than my bm. then when in one point his cleric has around same gear as i have, i killed him 3 times. then when he improved he killed me.
who do u kill r9rr?fayhumming??? even i can give him/her a good fight and i am not r9rr +12 as u both.
u said that u can easily kill r9rr ppl in dw server. well....i dont know to who are u figthing all the time, but i never saw u figthing the top players of dw. just some noobs.
is simple, if i, wiht r9 +10 can stand a good fight agaisnt those ppl that u call the top players, then it is clear they arent top players.
nowdays i dont know who are top players in dw. not couse of only gears. u can be one of those top players in dw, couse u have the skills and the gear for it. but ur ego is blinding u. u are not figthing ppl that can really stand u a fight.
i will start naming some ppl i know, that doesnt mean they are the best players or something like that, it is ppl i know. they are all good players.
i would like to c u figthing throck if he ever manage to get full +12 and jods as u are atm, i would like to c u figthing marangelus, he is probably the only one that can match ur skill and gear. i always considered lunality as one of the best wizards in server, i dont know if she still plays or what but if she ever match ur gears perhaps that could be a good fight too.
but tbh only 1 person there could match ur skills+gear and it is merangelus and tbh i never saw u figthing him. sooo yeah u probably are the best cleric on server, but u never fight the same geares ppl as u and/or with same skills.
is like what it happened to me yesterday, i was pking agaisnt a r9rr sage sin +12, i lost after i almost kiled this sin and after 1 silver charm wasted, the sin kept telling me why i ran as a cleric, and i answered, ok next time i will stand there infront of u tanking ur spark...duh.... thats the problem of some ppl, they think they are the best but they never fight same geared ppl. to me, being able to kill this sage sin r9rr +12 me bieng a bm r9 +12 weapon, is awsome, couse it means i learned something about this game in my years here. and i am sure this sin think he is super good couse he killed a bm r9...but he doesnt look to him and what happened in the fight..thats what it is happening to u, u dont look to urself and others. try look who are u figthing and look at u.
my 2 cents0 -
Merang doesn't pk, you know that. Goodness knows I've tried to get him to fight, lol. If you think you'll succeed where I've failed, by all means... I do have some footage of me fighting him in Nation Wars, but as you might imagine, setting up a 1vs1 just isn't gonna happen all too often (refer to march 1st nation wars video). Flyranger I've fought a number of times, but we all know he simple doesn't have the experience Merang does. That being said, he is one of the few people who took the time to adapt a genie specifically to fighting me, and he started winning some fights again. Perhaps I'll finish editing that footage and upload it.
A quick look at the updated rankings (search pwi french forums, then click 'classement' (thats french for rankings I guess) and then selecting Dreamweaver forums, will quickly show that Dreamweaver doesn't have as many people pking as other servers, even one's of same age. Raging Tides has lot more people pking, apparently, and its a much newer server.
I'm not shooting myself in the foot. Boredom worries me far more than actually finding somebody who will give me trouble. Yes, there are a lot of people I'd love to fight, but they are simply NEVER in pk. Perhaps I should upload some more of the limited pk footage I have from the past few weeks, but even this isn't purely representative of who might be considered as DW's best.
Duh, there are counters to a cleric, I've been the one saying it all along, Faith and Heart of Steel. For reworking one's main genie (like the 91+ ones some of the best players undoubtedly have) putting in heart of steel, probably not valid. Even so, these players are surely well-off enough to slap together an 81+ that performs well against clerics, while incidentally giving them a pretty good chance against other archers and seekers!
I mean this is the first time I'm in a position where my gear is the best of my class. I'm not exactly sure how this works, but I suppose I could go fighting people without my full gearset in. Not exactly sure how I feel about that, nerfing myself intentionally.
islashyou was the hardest sin I ever fought, no question about it. He learned my tactics and did em better than I did, and the +12 gear he had helped no doubt, lol. Course, he doesn't play anymore, but I was never bored fighting him.
I do have some recent footage of me fighting crittycat, whose improved quite a bit recently in the skills and gears department, but still, critty is full dot r9rr, not full josd. cojones is on his way to becoming full jades but he's still a vit build barb as far as I know and a fight against him would likely be a big charmfest and draw.
I've fought fay... once in pk. Now talk about having a hard time getting somebody into pk. After about 25 minutes I finally managed to win, but I had stopped recording long before lol. Otherwise I'd upload that but... oh, and when I fight you tim, they'll say 'but he's dot psy, not jades' and that'll discount any wins I get against you. Hrmmm...
Man, DW really does lack a lot of pkers. I do sometimes wish I was on a different server for just that reason, otherwise I really like it here. Better atmosphere overall imo than other servers, but the lack of people to fight... if I don't fight the best geared people, people say its my gear winning. When I try to fight people geared like me, there isn't anybody unless I go to extraordinary lengths to get them into pk. What would YOU do? Do you even know?YOUTUBE CHANNEL:
youtube.com/user/csquaredcsquared
CLERIC PV GUIDE (complete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1531411
CLERIC PK GUIDE (Incomplete):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=180279310
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 697 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk