Purify on R3 weapons is making 1 class Godlike - Nobody tought of that or what?

opkossy

... And yet the fact remains that were it not a caster with Puriy getting attacked by that many people, their survival would be lowered and all those small hits would be helping actually kill them.

When you get better survival by having more people attack you, that's an obvious problem.

MasterPerian - Lost City wrote: »

don't you guys have god of frenzy? I've been one hit by a r9 3rd cast sin +12 ( he was in 3 spark ) I think he hit me for 17k through my full r9 3rd cast +10 wizzy gear. b:shocked

I think thats OP enough.. killed me right through charm and im 16khp buffed...

Also +12 r9 3rd cast BM destroys me daily. Critting me for 15k easy b:angry

should calm down and think about things before saying its NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP or comments like that.

Acting as if casters can't do damage like that from range to multiple targets without GoF. The entire reason melee get GoF is because they deal lower damage than casters to begin with based on their skills combined with the damage formula. Wanna complain about GoF? Go complain about how casters deal so much damage and have the skills and damage formulas changed so that they match melees first. THEN you can whine after seeing how **** your damage becomes on anything endgame without those GoF/crits.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

If the caster uses IG to dig the flag then they will have access to neither their genie nor apoth while carrying the flag. That leaves them incredibly vulnerable the whole way to the capture point.

That video is a poor example because none of the opponents are similarly geared. Almost all of the hits are dealing only 3-digit damage (in fact I don't see anyone other than an R9 psy and a g16 BM that do more than 1000 damage with the exception of a few random crits).

Just because using a torrent of low damage hits is no longer effective against endgame casters doesn't mean they are now godlike. Plenty effective strategies exist and have been posted in this thread.

The fact that a torrent of low damage hits is no longer effect is exactly the reason that they are now godlike. On ANY class with non purify proc, both now and before, a torrent of low damage WILL kill them due to the fact that they can be stunned and rendered defenseless. It is perfectly possible for a group of people to take down a full r9rr +12 barb without full r9rr +12 gears, but it is almost impossible to a caster class unless your gears are almost on par with theirs.

If you don't mind, could you please list the effective strategies that you speak of? For I have not really seen any strategy other than the proposed disarm debuff which happens to be a rare morai skill/100 skill.

Fissile - Archosaur

OPKossy wrote: »

When you get better survival by having more people attack you, that's an obvious problem.

So we should take away bestial rage from barbs then, since gaining chi and magic shields while being attacked is an obvious problem. And the Infinite weapon proc.

Yes purify increases survivability but that increased survivability is still far less than a same-geared barb, BM, or seeker, any of which could win that same instance just by holding the W key long enough.

ArmaniEx - Harshlands

Feels go to be on the broken side, remember that time 5.0 sins herp derpd their target in seconds, remember that time hits didn't show up on log when sin pops from stealth, remember that time sins went from barrier thorn no zerk to darkthorn sacrificial zerk. Lots of ppl went and rerolled assassin, now ppl going to have to reroll a caster.

Now remember that time they made AA > the auto attack classes. Ofc it has to be a defensive proc if you give mages a weapon proc that deals more dmge it would just tip the balance to one side.

I could care less about the speed proc, purify and antistun is all we need to be broken

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

ArmaniEx - Harshlands wrote: »

Feels go to be on the broken side, remember that time 5.0 sins herp derpd their target in seconds, remember that time hits didn't show up on log when sin pops from stealth, remember that time sins went from barrier thorn no zerk to darkthorn sacrificial zerk. Lots of ppl went and rerolled assassin, now ppl going to have to: (a) reroll a caster or (b) quit the game.

You forgot option (b).

Believe it or not, tons of players did just that (rage quit) during the height of the "QQ Sins too broken" crisis back in the day.

Fissile - Archosaur

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you don't mind, could you please list the effective strategies that you speak of? For I have not really seen any strategy other than the proposed disarm debuff which happens to be a rare morai skill/100 skill.

Maybe it is just your server, but blade hurl isn't rare at all on Archosaur. I would guess plenty of BMs have it on your server, but you don't notice because they don't use it on you personally.

Try any combination of debuffs and stuns that don't cause damage followed by a single high damage attack.

On a seeker: sacrificial slash, voidstep, tangling mire, crimson soul powder, blade affinity, quid pro quo, extreme poison, (edged blur if you've got chi), gemini slash. (I was 1-shot by an R8 seeker with this.)

Barb: Tangling mire, untamed wrath, extreme poison, armageddon.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

If the caster uses IG to dig the flag then they will have access to neither their genie nor apoth while carrying the flag. That leaves them incredibly vulnerable the whole way to the capture point.

That video is a poor example because none of the opponents are similarly geared. Almost all of the hits are dealing only 3-digit damage (in fact I don't see anyone other than an R9 psy and a g16 BM that do more than 1000 damage with the exception of a few random crits).

Just because using a torrent of low damage hits is no longer effective against endgame casters doesn't mean they are now godlike. Plenty effective strategies exist and have been posted in this thread.

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

Maybe it is just your server, but blade hurl isn't rare at all on Archosaur. I would guess plenty of BMs have it on your server, but you don't notice because they don't use it on you personally.

Try any combination of debuffs and stuns that don't cause damage followed by a single high damage attack.

On a seeker: sacrificial slash, voidstep, tangling mire, crimson soul powder, blade affinity, quid pro quo, extreme poison, (edged blur if you've got chi), gemini slash. (I was 1-shot by an R8 seeker with this.)

Barb: Tangling mire, untamed wrath, extreme poison, armageddon.

Fissile, you're done talking now since it seems to come from your behind instead of your brain.

Debuffs - Including Blade Hurl - are purified away by the purify or the proc. You are 100% reliant on luck that the proc doesn't fire, and that enough damage is able to get past the person's charm tick and HP total.

Keep in mind fighting a wizard with 20k pdef/mdef, lets say 50 Def levels or more, and 17k+ HP. And they have support. In most situations regularly getting purified, speed buffed, and antistuned.

It's a game of whichever well build wizard IG digs the flag first in these circumstances.

opkossy

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

Try any combination of debuffs and stuns that don't cause damage followed by a single high damage attack.

On a seeker: sacrificial slash, voidstep, tangling mire, crimson soul powder, blade affinity, quid pro quo, extreme poison, (edged blur if you've got chi), gemini slash. (I was 1-shot by an R8 seeker with this.)

Barb: Tangling mire, untamed wrath, extreme poison, armageddon.

And this will not work in any form of mass PvP because.... it's mass PvP. In a 1v1 where you can set this up and your opponent doesn't do anything, fair enough... but Purify isn't super broken in 1v1s anyways.

Against someone with half a brain in a mass PvP situation when they have a purify weapon? Good luck getting it off without being interupted, having them do nothing, AND not being screwed over by your own side going off and.. .y'know... doing ANYTHING and thus making purify go off.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Please, Fissile believes genies can be used while you are holding the flag, and that APS apparently has GoF on them. If his solution is to make APS capable of getting GoF, that could be interesting I'd take GoF fists in place of axe will all those same adds for R999, no prob. If that's how they want it balanced, sure.

Barbs aren't an issue anyways, even when they all out turtle there is at least 3 classes off the top of my head with the ability to purge all those buffs off with their intended gear. 5+ if you count those using non-intended gear. And considering how cheap it is to get, it's more a lack of coming prepared if they can't.

Casters aren't like that. It's either have that 1 class there, or no purge. And since just the one class can do that, if it is even there, the Purifier just needs to target them as main priority. Other than that, they're golden. Whereas the barb will be stun locked until purged, then murdered. Happens plenty in NW just that way.

Class knowledge and skill can beat the other R999s, with purify that is not enough. The ones saying "learn your class" to beat purify have no idea what they are talking about: but at least they are showing how ignorant of PvP they themselves are. Likely why they need Purify to not be utterly terrible in it.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

I meant to say this the other day...the proc would be fine if it had a cooldown period, or was greatly reduced in regularity (Seriously, its not hard to get hit 10-20 times a second), like the stuns and slows being cast upon the person do.

The only other semi balanced alternative I could see is it procing the anti aps buff.

As is its a bit too powerful. In the end, just get someone with it on your team and have them IG dig the flag first. I'm happy to stun/slow/aoe pave the way clear for them.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Seeing as it appears to be mostly an issue in NW, I think the speed (and maybe anti-stun) part of the Purify proc should be disabled when carrying a Flag.

I generally suggested for the speed boost (and maybe the anti-stun buff) to be removed and leave only the purify proc and, perhaps, lower the proc rate since it's a defensive add. It's nice to have an occasional purify of the stun, sleep, debuffs etc. I believe that would be balanced enough

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seeing as it appears to be mostly an issue in NW, I think the speed (and maybe anti-stun) part of the Purify proc should be disabled when carrying a Flag.

I generally suggested for the speed boost (and maybe the anti-stun buff) to be removed and leave only the purify proc and, perhaps, lower the proc rate since it's a defensive add. It's nice to have an occasional purify of the stun, sleep, debuffs etc. I believe that would be balanced enough

Speed part is whatever. Its the purify and antistun that removes all the CCs and debuffs that allow the person to be killed. The speed section is a huge nonfactor.

klys

Purify proc doesn't make any1 OP. R999 HIGH refines HIGH shards makes people OP, it doesn't matter what class.
An arcane is silly enough to dig the flag? Purge it then shoot in the face with arrows, I don't see what the problem is.

There is no reason equally geared opponent cant take down some1 who cant use a genie and is slowed.

Undergeared and can't kill it? well that's how the game works.

trying to aps something in pvp? yea nice.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

klys wrote: »

Purify proc doesn't make any1 OP. R999 HIGH refines HIGH shards makes people OP, it doesn't matter what class.
An arcane is silly enough to dig the flag? Purge it then shoot in the face with arrows, I don't see what the problem is.

There is no reason equally geared opponent cant take down some1 who cant use a genie and is slowed.

Undergeared and can't kill it? well that's how the game works.

trying to aps something in pvp? yea nice.

Purge and shoot it in the face with arrows procs the weapon and they leave. Even with both at high refines.

It's not the aps or the undergearing. We're speaking from experience with groups of +12's on both sides here.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Seeing as it appears to be mostly an issue in NW, I think the speed (and maybe anti-stun) part of the Purify proc should be disabled when carrying a Flag.

I generally suggested for the speed boost (and maybe the anti-stun buff) to be removed and leave only the purify proc and, perhaps, lower the proc rate a little since it's a defensive add. It's nice to have an occasional purify of the stun, sleep, debuffs etc. I believe that would be balanced.

opkossy

klys wrote: »

An arcane is silly enough to dig the flag? Purge it then shoot in the face with arrows, I don't see what the problem is.

Only one class gets that guaranteed purge and that one class can be filtered via T-menu and killed before it gets the chance.

Meanwhile literally anyone else attempting to do almost anything is simply going to help the person with this weapon. R9 and its variants were bad enough before this but with it? That's just adding overkill to overkill.

klys

A r999 archer shooting a purged r999 caster? Does anyone actually play this game? There's any question as to if they'll survive?

Desdi - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Speed part is whatever. Its the purify and antistun that removes all the CCs and debuffs that allow the person to be killed. The speed section is a huge nonfactor.

Hence I said maybe remove the anti-stun as well and lower the proc rate of the add. Limit it only to an occasional purify, nothing more.
I wouldn't want this add completely removed since it's something nice for Clerics, especially those focused on CataBarbs, but if they'd only give it to Clerics then the other classes would demand to have it as well.

Either way at this point, I don't think it will be removed. However, they could still nerf it a little.

klys

sog, reel in, bramble tornado, the veno bird thing- there are other ways slow down. If your team is silly enough to help flag with weak aps, that's the players problem, not the game- it means they don't know how to play. a coordinated effort between 2 opposing the flag could take it down with control skills and triple sparks- even non-purged.
The issue here is that undergeared people can't kill higher geared people, or everyone on your team doesn't know what their role is, or random nubs come and crash the party with aps. The purify proc adds balance to purge and gof. The real unbalance come from the gear/refine/shard difference- but that's part of the game. Gear up and stop whining please.

opkossy

klys wrote: »

A r999 archer shooting a purged r999 caster? Does anyone actually play this game? There's any question as to if they'll survive?

People have self-buffed 1v1s all the time. Archers don't always kill casters in those as a skilled caster CAN defend themselves and/or kill the archer.

Class alone is very rarely a deciding factor. Which any skilled player knows.

And you don't have to APS for purify to proc. APS is just the biggest way to make it stay there. Plus you keep acting as though every battle is going to have a veno that will be right there to purge. Yet we've already established that not only is that a silly thing to expect, but in the common event where there ISN'T one... attempting to purge them is just a way to trigger the purify. So in trying to kill this person you shoot yourself in the foot.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

klys wrote: »

A r999 archer shooting a purged r999 caster? Does anyone actually play this game? There's any question as to if they'll survive?

You don't obviously.

klys wrote: »

sog, reel in, bramble tornado, the veno bird thing- there are other ways slow down. Gear up and stop whining please.

Reel in doesn't always work. The other two are viable and have been used...provided those people aren't being killed in the process.

You can see my gear below, and understand I NW with similar geared people.

Further understand that I willfully CHOOSE to let a R9rr wizzie or other R9rr caster to pull that flag because they have a greater chance at survival than I do vs heavily refined and played teams. It's a better strategy, because they are unkillable and the best flag pullers in the game with support.

However, I would say that you have not faced a well played well geared group in NW if you're still convinced the proc is not overpowered.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hence I said maybe remove the anti-stun as well and lower the proc rate of the add. Limit it only to an occasional purify, nothing more.
I wouldn't want this add completely removed since it's something nice for Clerics, especially those focused on CataBarbs, but if they'd only give it to Clerics then the other classes would demand to have it as well.

Either way at this point, I don't think it will be removed. However, they could still nerf it a little.

The only thing making the proc broken as hell is pulling flags in NW. Past that you can just CC them and leave them alone, or in things like TW/PK have a better setup. NW flags you actually need to put them down in a timely manner.

klys

A bm complaining about casters? Go figure

If this thread is about NW, then why aren't we talking about archers? anti stun + speed for the entire run not OP?

Maelael - Heavens Tear

klys wrote: »

A bm complaining about casters? Go figure

If this thread is about NW, then why aren't we talking about archers? anti stun + speed for the entire run not OP?

Aw, and now you're just being ****. Go play the game some more, get some experience, play with and vs some end game people.

darknessofmy

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Aw, and now you're just being ****. Go play the game some more, get some experience, play with and vs some end game people.

Go learn your class before QQ.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

darknessofmy wrote: »

Go learn your class before QQ.

What part of his post suggested to you that he has not learned his class?

Decus - Dreamweaver

klys wrote: »

A bm complaining about casters? Go figure

If this thread is about NW, then why aren't we talking about archers? anti stun + speed for the entire run not OP?

Anti-stun for the entire run? Are you nuts? Alacrity is slightly longer than holy path.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

klys wrote: »

A bm complaining about casters? Go figure

If this thread is about NW, then why aren't we talking about archers? anti stun + speed for the entire run not OP?

troll

darknessofmy wrote: »

Go learn your class before QQ.

troll

troll+troll = troll, weird math i know b:shocked.

A r999 archer shooting a purged r999 caster? Does anyone actually play this game? There's any question as to if they'll survive?

Archer = aps based class in shooting arrows, not as bad as sins, or bm with claws, but still bad, they will proc the person. r9 3rd cast bow against 20~30k pdef, not going to one shot them any time soon.

reel in.

Chances of failure is high, especially against psychics, success seems to be dependent on soulforce.

Only real way to stop is them to chain blade hurl. When you can find 3~6 bm, chaining blade hurl in perfect sync, hit me up again.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Archer = aps based class in shooting arrows, not as bad as sins, or bm with claws, but still bad, they will proc the person. r9 3rd cast bow against 20~30k pdef, not going to one shot them any time soon.

And just what class is suppose to one shot these r9 jade robes? I didn't know pk is still measured by what class can one shot what class on sanc.

darknessofmy

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And just what class is suppose to one shot these r9 jade robes? I didn't know pk is still measured by what class can one shot what class on sanc.

PVP is what the game is made for

opkossy

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And just what class is suppose to one shot these r9 jade robes? I didn't know pk is still measured by what class can one shot what class on sanc.

Pretty sure he was making a point of the fact that since they aren't likely to 1-shot the guy, in a mass PK scenario it's likely they'd help trigger the proc because of how most archers will be fighting regardless.