Purify on R3 weapons is making 1 class Godlike - Nobody tought of that or what?

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Roxani - Lost City wrote: »

EXACTLY. <333 u MagicEmpress

That's actually a bad thing to quote, for at least 2 really good reasons.

1. It's PvP. Your whole arguement has been PvE this whole time, and saying PvP shouldn't influence the other. So either there is a distinct lack of experience to say one way or the other, or again you've been using PvE as a smokescreen.

2. Feel free to go back and read the posts that already countered it and make MagicEmpress' post seem juvenilely naive. We can not control the other 19 people in the battle with us. At most there is a chance for 9, and even that is not a given. The other 10 are often randoms, and in case you guys haven't noticed, they don't do the smart thing. They will run up and attack right away, breaking the sleep. And likely proc'ing the purify. Which means you won't get between them and the flag.

See, this is the actual way it happens in NW. Ignoring even the imbalance of survivability between end game Purify and end game anything else (class as well) which makes R9 3rd cast barbs easier to kill than casters, there is the fact that in NW you can not actually have a good plan like that succeed. As well there is a minimum gear requirement non-existant for any of the other ones.

You can have the most surefire plan in the world to kill the Purifier, but it's not going to happen even if everyone in the squad is completely pro. Simply because they will not be able to remove the other 10 people running around, not knowing or not caring about the plan. I've even called it in Battle chat and the 2 I R Barbs still just specialed away on the caster.

It's these factors of plans not being able to be done, through absolutely no fault of the planner's, and even 40K+ HP barbs in full defense mode being easier to kill than a 18K caster that makes it so broken. And as your shift to NW is showing, you have no interest in whether it is broken or not. You want to have the broken you have, and will argue regardless if there is balance or not for that one reason.

I'll use it too, but at least I'm not pretending it is anything but broken.

opkossy

All I have to say on the matter is casters who pretend Purify spell is fair or balanced are as bad as those sins who pretended that the assassin class was totally fair and balanced in 1v1 PvP prior to the Descent expansion.

Even someone who uses it often should be able to tell when something is a gamebreaker, regardless of if it's in their favor or not.

Roxani - Lost City

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's actually a bad thing to quote, for at least 2 really good reasons.

1. It's PvP. Your whole arguement has been PvE this whole time, and saying PvP shouldn't influence the other. So either there is a distinct lack of experience to say one way or the other, or again you've been using PvE as a smokescreen.

2. Feel free to go back and read the posts that already countered it and make MagicEmpress' post seem juvenilely naive. We can not control the other 19 people in the battle with us. At most there is a chance for 9, and even that is not a given. The other 10 are often randoms, and in case you guys haven't noticed, they don't do the smart thing. They will run up and attack right away, breaking the sleep. And likely proc'ing the purify. Which means you won't get between them and the flag.

See, this is the actual way it happens in NW. Ignoring even the imbalance of survivability between end game Purify and end game anything else (class as well) which makes R9 3rd cast barbs easier to kill than casters, there is the fact that in NW you can not actually have a good plan like that succeed. As well there is a minimum gear requirement non-existant for any of the other ones.

You can have the most surefire plan in the world to kill the Purifier, but it's not going to happen even if everyone in the squad is completely pro. Simply because they will not be able to remove the other 10 people running around, not knowing or not caring about the plan. I've even called it in Battle chat and the 2 I R Barbs still just specialed away on the caster.

It's these factors of plans not being able to be done, through absolutely no fault of the planner's, and even 40K+ HP barbs in full defense mode being easier to kill than a 18K caster that makes it so broken. And as your shift to NW is showing, you have no interest in whether it is broken or not. You want to have the broken you have, and will argue regardless if there is balance or not for that one reason.

I'll use it too, but at least I'm not pretending it is anything but broken.

OK I tried to be nice that's why I deleted my posts because maybe I don't understand how the purify works because I don't have it. BUT my argument wasn't all PvE I said you should consider the PvE positives instead of just relying on the fact that you cant kill a caster in PvP. I said it shouldn't ALL be about the PvP factor I didn't say they shouldn't influence each other, both factors have to be considered.

And I don't deny its broken, but its like the venos with a nix I was told all the time that it was like a 2 vs 1 when I had the nix simply because it made me OP for a while. Sins and psys are STILL broken they have a lot of advantages that most classes don't. Sins are still out there taking the easy kills instead of challenges because of the simple fact that they CAN.

This is broken, and its casters this time. Why don't you guys just deal with it and figure out another way to kill us because there are already plenty of ways to do it. Learn your class, FIGHT A CHALLENGING FIGHT, instead of whining like babies because a caster class gets something OP that in my honest opinion has been due them for a LONG time since sins came out.

That's all I have to say about that.

P.S. just incase you think killing 3rd cast barbs in NW is easier than a caster with purify...you need to come to Lost City and meet badassman JS

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Roxani - Lost City wrote: »

This is broken, and its casters this time. Why don't you guys just deal with it and figure out another way to kill us because there are already plenty of ways to do it. Learn your class, FIGHT A CHALLENGING FIGHT, instead of whining like babies because a caster class gets something OP that in my honest opinion has been due them for a LONG time since sins came out.

That's all I have to say about that.

P.S. just incase you think killing 3rd cast barbs in NW is easier than a caster with purify...you need to come to Lost City and meet badassman JS

We do know our class, and the reason barbs are easier is because we can proc a purge on them and remove all their buffs. That makes them really easy to kill. And with a stun lock going on during it, others can come up and add on. You would know why it is easier, if you knew anything about Purify. Or feel free to read up on the strats developed in the BM forum: there's a reason I called that ridiculously simplistic plan juvenilely naive. It's like saying the solution to world peace is simply: stop fighting. It just shows how little the posters actually understand the subject.

And if clerics knew their class, they could find their instant skills that reduce damage in the duration of not being stunned, or drop wings like a competent PvPer. Not many are though, which is why they are so easy to kill. Out of all the in air clerics I've fought in the NWs, none of them actually did a good job of defending with the skills a cleric possesses. It's either they outgear and kill me, or they die or have a friend chase me off. From my experience, them dieing so easy is due to poor playing from not knowing what to do. Can't see a difference here, since every example and scenario given is a glaring lack of knowledge on how their class should play in PvP.

EDIT: IF you say just purge the caster, you will prove my point.

Euzebe - Sanctuary

Purify makes em sure harder to pin down, and maybe makes debuffing less reliable, but casters after purged can still go down with a few ppl railing on them.

opkossy

Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »

with a few ppl railing on them.

And that right there would be the problem. You're not going to keep a skilled caster down or debuffed (this INCLUDES amps and the like) with purify going off because the fact is the more people that rail on them like you'd want, the more times purify will proc and the harder to kill they'll be.

At least with the designated tank class that's supposed to be hard to kill (aka Barbs) having more people attack HELPS you kill them. With purify spell, all that does is make it harder to kill them.

Edit:

Roxani - Lost City wrote: »

Ok despite what everyone says, flying in the air to your target gives you a great advantage, you can sleep, magic and pdef debuff them (while they are slept the debuffs dont break it I know this from personal exp) while you are in the air and then drop to triple spark and kill them

... What kind of idiots do you fight that are actually gonna sit there and twiddle their thumbs while you set that up? And that's assuming your sleep even lasts long enough for it to occur... or that their armors aren't as good as their weapon and they can't just... ya know... tank that hit, then sleep you right back and laugh at you for wasting your chi like that, among MANY other things.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Roxani - Lost City wrote: »

Ok despite what everyone says, flying in the air to your target gives you a great advantage, you can sleep, magic and pdef debuff them (while they are slept the debuffs dont break it I know this from personal exp) while you are in the air and then drop to triple spark and kill them, most of the time this works mainly when im in a squad because yes I am vit build (which comes in handy in some unfortunate situations, like being stunlocked). I dont mainly PvP on the EP seeing as I have my main PvP experience on a veno, and it has already been stated in this thread that this purify and speed buff CAN be purged, and if you dont believe me I can test this on my wizzy friend that does in fact have the purify spell.

I was also right when I said this skill breaks stunlocks, but however it doesn't break seals like the ones in WS. BUT if you have ever done WS, (seeing as your a lvl 95 EP, doubt you do it much for BH) FULL WS has bosses and mobs that stun and interrupt you constantly.

Just so you know just because the plan is SIMPLE doesn't mean its na

Everyone says it breaks stunlocks, what we're saying is even if it didn't give speed buff it would still do that. My lvl is broken on both my cleric and BM, my cleric is a couple days of cube and AoE grind from 101, and my BM has been 101 for over 3 years. Only venos can reliably get the purge, everyone else trying to purge with weapon will proc Purify. Which is the reason we're pointing out we can't purge it, now that it isn't purgeable. The attempt itself to purge will be self-defeating. So again, you proved my point by not getting it.

As for venos, they have to be in that battle and at that caster. Then they have to get in range, without being SotG'ed/etc. to bring them out of it. By then purify procs, and that veno won't be getting there in time before the caster easy modes to cap point. Because the few coming to cut them off may be able to do so, but those idgits we can't control will render that strategy null and void by attacking once they get in range. Is it stupid, oh hell yes. But it gets done still all the time.

Again, on our BM forum we have a breakdown of ways to try to get around it. And this is done by people who have PvP'ed on both their cleric and BM, as well as other classes, and have actual class knowledge and PvP knowledge. And it goes alot more in-depth than a silly "sleep and get ahead", because that is not anywhere close enough to cut it. And only people who have never actually been in that position would even think it is that easy. The biggest detriment is our own nation in these cases, but again the lack of familiarity is why some of you guys don't understand this subject.

As for wings, I've said to be using them quite often. Flying prevents alot of what sins can do, and if they move a bit instead of stupidly spamming skills back to back they wouldn't be such an easy target. That's how it's so easy for my BM to fly up and kill em; pretty easy to target a completely stationary object.

OPKossy wrote: »

... What kind of idiots do you fight that are actually gonna sit there and twiddle their thumbs while you set that up? And that's assuming your sleep even lasts long enough for it to occur... or that their armors aren't as good as their weapon and they can't just... ya know... tank that hit, then sleep you right back and laugh at you for wasting your chi like that, among MANY other things.

Pretty sure it's already obvious they have little to no experience with clerics or PvP in general, or they wouldn't point out that debuffs don't remove sleep. Who the heck doesn't know that? It's expected of clerics. Heck, a cleric PvP guide I wrote on forum back in 2008 or 2009 shows more PvP knowledge, and that was before genies were even out.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

I see Kossy has this covered. I'm off to bed.

klys

taringa181 wrote: »

just **** and stop qqing!

then remove max ranged purges and gof aswell

this^

xvokcx

Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Purify Spell: Has a chance to remove debuff when being attacked,
and immune to stun and slow, and increase speed by 200%, lasts for 5 seconds

everything about this proc is overpowered, any other class that got good gear dies when being ganked, because of debuff and stun's, but that dont work on because the proc just removes all debuffs and stuns, i agree that right now you need to be a caster or you ****ed.


the purify proc is so bad that if i see someone who is a r9r3 caster i run the other way, because you cant beat them

that's RIGHT , when I see a r9r3 caster, just Ignore them and keep on my way, Why would you want to hit an imposible target ? to die and contribute to their points? I dont fking think so!

This Proc is plainly Stupid and broken as Freaking Hell /end of thread. Advise for everyone who is not r9r3, just pretend the r9r3 caster doesnt exist , a fight with them will never be a fair fight, they Simply put , CHEAT as it is right now. a PWI GIVEN (sold) CHEAT ! End of story.

plusonepostcount

OPKossy wrote: »

Casters do more damage to begin with than melee just from the damage formula and the nature of all caster skills. You'd have to change how melee damage works so that they become equal first if we're to go on that path.

hey I'll agree to them getting an amp as soon as casters start having to stack dex to not miss a target just saying that would be truly fairb:laugh

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

With cleric support, a barb has the best chance of all classes I believe. Even a relatively badly geared barb can make it on speed alone. Only the really really well geared r9rr arcanes can carry a flag. If other r9rr people are hitting, you can definitely die before getting out of their attack range, purify or not.

Here's my latest video of my cleric in a nation war, this footage is continuous (with the less interesting parts snipped out) and from February 24th, 2013. In this nation war I didn't die very much while carrying flag, because I've become much more familiar with my limits.

Feb 24th Nation War

Compare with my older nation war video, in which I die more often while carrying flag, because I try to push through the enemy on purify weapon and heals alone (ie, no allied support, because they can't keep up with you). Attempting to rely on purify weapon may, if lucky, get you to the capture point faster, but it might just as easily get you purged, sealed and killed, because you outran your allies.

Feb 15th Nation War

Clerics and psychics benefit most from purify weapon I believe. These classes have neither native anti-stun skill, nor movement skill. Wizards with a high dext genie have always been ok because they use badge of courage then immediately port back, so melee enemies are hooped, and they may even escape from ranged enemies. Mystics have anti-stun; venomancers have anti-stuns and fast fast movement speed.

I was astonished by how often purify procs with r9rr. I used a r8r weapon for half a year before acquiring r9rr. I'm used to r9rr now, and going back to r8r would be unpleasant but bearable. All of you people are talking about changing the actual purify proc, thats nonsense, it works fine. You usually can't take advantage of the first second or two after a proc; often I'm healing myself or casting another skill and my weapon procs... but I'm still not gonna be running anywhere till my skill finishes casting.

So yeah, in my opinion if you must nerf it, simply nerf how OFTEN the purify proc occurs, don't change the proc itself.

Aeliah

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

With cleric support, a barb has the best chance of all classes I believe. Even a relatively badly geared barb can make it on speed alone. Only the really really well geared r9rr arcanes can carry a flag. If other r9rr people are hitting, you can definitely die before getting out of their attack range, purify or not.

Here's my latest video of my cleric in a nation war, this footage is continuous (with the less interesting parts snipped out) and from February 24th, 2013. In this nation war I didn't die very much while carrying flag, because I've become much more familiar with my limits.

Feb 24th Nation War

Compare with my older nation war video, in which I die more often while carrying flag, because I try to push through the enemy on purify weapon and heals alone (ie, no allied support, because they can't keep up with you). Attempting to rely on purify weapon may, if lucky, get you to the capture point faster, but it might just as easily get you purged, sealed and killed, because you outran your allies.

Feb 15th Nation War

Clerics and psychics benefit most from purify weapon I believe. These classes have neither native anti-stun skill, nor movement skill. Wizards with a high dext genie have always been ok because they use badge of courage then immediately port back, so melee enemies are hooped, and they may even escape from ranged enemies. Mystics have anti-stun; venomancers have anti-stuns and fast fast movement speed.

I was astonished by how often purify procs with r9rr. I used a r8r weapon for half a year before acquiring r9rr. I'm used to r9rr now, and going back to r8r would be unpleasant but bearable. All of you people are talking about changing the actual purify proc, thats nonsense, it works fine. You usually can't take advantage of the first second or two after a proc; often I'm healing myself or casting another skill and my weapon procs... but I'm still not gonna be running anywhere till my skill finishes casting.

So yeah, in my opinion if you must nerf it, simply nerf how OFTEN the purify proc occurs, don't change the proc itself.

Aeliah

Oh you don't have to worry about a nerf at all, PWE has no clue how to bring balance into their game. Your precious Purify Spell won't receive a nerf of any kind, but in about 1 to 2 years Melee classes will get a proc on their weapons that will "reduce its effectiveness" and we'll get pots that will "reduce spells' effectiveness". Then the Casters will cry out about imbalance while the melee classes will sit here and say it's perfectly balanced when they know it's not simply to spite the majority of casters such as yourself that believe Purify Spell is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that it's actually GOOD for the game.

Or you know. They won't do anything. Either scenario is extremely likely considering the company we're dealing with.

Hannsel - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh you don't have to worry about a nerf at all, PWE has no clue how to bring balance into their game. .......

i honestly think they can bring balance, its just that they are scared of the backclash. APS wasn't nerfed because "people who spent millions on their sets will ragequit". when they removed chi gain during spark the CN players were outraged even though it was a balancing move. the same will happen if they modify purify spell weapons.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Hannsel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i honestly think they can bring balance, its just that they are scared of the backclash. APS wasn't nerfed because "people who spent millions on their sets will ragequit". when they removed chi gain during spark the CN players were outraged even though it was a balancing move. the same will happen if they modify purify spell weapons.

APS has had quite a few indirect nerfs. Accuracy reduction at over 4APS, Fortification Draughts, and easy to obtain gear that packs a nice amount of defense levels. Oh, let's not forget certain skills given to different classes that make auto-attacking a less than appealing choice. They didn't just nerf APS, they've forced the classes that used it to go for a DPH build or be unable to kill anything but another melee class unless they were seriously overgeared.

So, surely they COULD re-balance the game a bit. However it'll take them years to do so, and if they did it'd end up turning the tides on the side that was overpowered so much that they'd be pretty much screwed. Or, nothing at all happens and one side stays overpowered forever. As I said, either scenario is far more likely than them ever actually making the game balanced.

Hannsel - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

APS has had quite a few indirect nerfs. Accuracy reduction at over 4APS, Fortification Draughts, and easy to obtain gear that packs a nice amount of defense levels. Oh, let's not forget certain skills given to different classes that make auto-attacking a less than appealing choice. They didn't just nerf APS, they've forced the classes that used it to go for a DPH build or be unable to kill anything but another melee class unless they were seriously overgeared.

basically no nerf to purify spell weps. i suspect disarm proc in the next tier of melee weps as a way to counter purify b:chuckle.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So, surely they COULD re-balance the game a bit. However it'll take them years to do so, and if they did it'd end up turning the tides on the side that was overpowered so much that they'd be pretty much screwed. Or, nothing at all happens and one side stays overpowered forever. As I said, either scenario is far more likely than them ever actually making the game balanced.

it takes years so as to siphon enough money from players b:chuckle

LilTriss - Harshlands

Personally, I really like purify spell, because before the only thing a caster could relay on to save them from a stun lock was there genie. and if it was on cool down, they were more or less dead.

That being said, I think the moment speed add doesn't make sense in the point. Or at least not in nation war. It should be more for saving you from dying in a stun lock, less for running half way across the map. :P

Mizuryu - Harshlands

Vixen told me that the purify effect is now bannable and gave everyone an item to change this add-on to something different.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Only problem is now that purify is out there, the GMs actually cannot remove purify from people who already have it, unless they look at everyone's inventory and remove it manually or create a script specifically just to do that.

It is possible that they'll release a new set of gears without purify spell that is so powerful than even r9rr is a non factor in comparison. That would be a way to remove purify spell as everyone would be forced to upgrade or get 1 shot. The only other way would be to force everyone to reroll their weapon and make it bannable to use a weapon that is not rerolled, but that would take a lot of manual effort.

The biggest problem with purify proc is that you can break a stun lock with it. While it is true that classes like clerics and psychics don't have an anti stun and are disadvantaged compared to some classes in that aspect, you also have to consider that no class at all can break out of a stun without the use of a genie. The addition of purify proc changes that and allows you to break out of a stun by doing absolutely nothing. That's the biggest problem. If all it did was JUST anti stun you or JUST purify you, it wouldn't be as bad.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Accuracy reduction at over 4APS

This has not observed in a multitude of testing. It's been researched.

Mizuryu - Harshlands wrote: »

Vixen told me that the purify effect is now bannable and gave everyone an item to change this add-on to something different.

Either someone lied to you or this is a bad troll

Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver

can we all agree that a stun break is good, if you ask me they should change the proc to

Remove a stun effect from yourself when being attacked, and immune to stun and slow increase speed by 100% lasts for 3 seconds

this would make the proc balanced if you ask me, so the proc dont remove debuff(the part that is pissing me off the most) and the caster can still be freezyed even if it proc's the freezy stays, so it only removes stun and gives anti stun for 3 sec, i mean a seeker(if sage) only got 4 sec of anti stun pr 1 min

TheDendra - Harshlands

Mizuryu - Harshlands wrote: »

Vixen told me that the purify effect is now bannable and gave everyone an item to change this add-on to something different.

Don't listen to noobs. Purify is banned on pwv, not pwi.

Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

Don't listen to noobs. Purify is banned on pwv, not pwi.

and that is awesome, they give them

Infinite: Has a chance to recover 2,100 HP in 9 seconds while being
attacked, while increasing Mana by 50 points. - 13.33%

on the weapons now to make it more balanced

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This has not observed in a multitude of testing. It's been researched.

It has. Specifically noticeable in PVP where people actually have evasion, as opposed to mobs. But it's not a huge make or break change.

Infinite proc is worthless.

The issue is how easily and often purify spell procs. 1/5 hits last test I ran with a buddy - sometimes more.

And yes, Wizards are now the BEST flag pullers out there. Clerics are okay, Psys are better than clerics. I can erase any barb with an assist or three, but that same group would have a hard time or zero chance at all to put down a heavily refined Purify spell'ed caster.

Adroit - Lost City

If you were to just remove purify proc tomorrow without changing anything else, caster classes would be horribly underpowered. Between spirit blackhole, god of frenzy and all the new morai skills, casters need something "OP" (a bit of a misnomer, just because something is good doesn't mean it is overpowered lol)

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

If you were to just remove purify proc tomorrow without changing anything else, caster classes would be horribly underpowered. Between spirit blackhole, god of frenzy and all the new morai skills, casters need something "OP" (a bit of a misnomer, just because something is good doesn't mean it is overpowered lol)

What they needed was something to even things up, which they more or less got with Morai skills. They didn't need something that would completely turn the tides, just like Seekers didn't need to get zerk on metal skills. Both of those are just plain stupid.

Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What they needed was something to even things up, which they more or less got with Morai skills. They didn't need something that would completely turn the tides, just like Seekers didn't need to get zerk on metal skills. Both of those are just plain stupid.

why is it plain stupid that zerk works on metals, without it g16 nivy would do more damage...... and would make not point in going r9

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What they needed was something to even things up, which they more or less got with Morai skills. They didn't need something that would completely turn the tides, just like Seekers didn't need to get zerk on metal skills. Both of those are just plain stupid.

Seekers are neither casters nor melee.
All physical/melee classes have GOF on their weapon.
Archers are neither casters nor melee so they got PURGE on their weapon
All casters already have very high magic attack to begin with so their damage output was already too high to begin with.

As for seekers, I do believe having GOF on all the skills was the most viable option however at the same time, they shouldn't have increased our skill damage by a lot which is exactly why magic zerks hurt other physical classes when combined with our sac slash + qpq combo.

Or they should've given seekers another sort proc instead of GOF so maybe they wouldn't get overexaggerated then.

Honestly though, we did shet damage to other classes before morai skills came out along with magic zerks

LoraTab - Dreamweaver

Pretty sure that back when peeps complained about 5 aps being too powerfull-everyone said reroll.

If you think purify is that op then my advice is to just reroll....

Purify is only really good against sins/claw users. It does not help at all against mystics,psy,clerics,venos(without pets), wizards, seekers, or archers.

TeddyBear - Raging Tide

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ehh, I think the Purify itself is not bad but the additional speed and anti-stun is what really makes it OP.

I mean, Archers get Purge on their bow and other classes get SS and GoF which are pretty broken too so I don't see why casters don't deserve having Purify.

I just think it should be kept as to what the name really implies; a Purify to help casters counter stuns, sleep, debuffs and leave the anti-stun/speed buff out.

Someone who actually has some sense. Casters already do way more damage than melees classes and stuff, imo, they dont even need a proc. But, even if they get one, purify just does TOO MUCH. Getting purified every so often isnt bad for casters, but the holy path + anti stun thing is ridic xD.

b:cry and i swear it procs every second hitb:cry