Purify on R3 weapons is making 1 class Godlike - Nobody tought of that or what?

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A whole lot of ad hominem in there without any substance to your post. You'd probably be having a lot more fun right now if you started learning how to pvp without aps and spent less time QQing on the forums. Casters would be horribly underpowered if you just removed purify proc tomorrow without changing anything else, and no amount of whining from you is going to get the devs to give you easy mode again.

Prove.

It.

With.

Math.

And.

Logic.

As is your just proving his point.

Adroit - Lost City

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or you could answer the clear and accurate statements in my post.

I see no reason to r9 my wiz alt just to indisputably prove an argument. Since A: that would take months and B: If your correct you can simply disprove my claims right here and now with clear and objective arguments.

Or C: you really have no reply and are going back to ye ole "well you dont know because your not 10x r999 on x class"

But to answer your above statement.

Yes, Lets compare Gen 1 sins to gen 1 anything else. LOLOLOL. Lets compare R9 1st cast to r999 and say that arcane r999 needs purify because r9 loses to r999. Oh and lets complain about a skillset release that greatly benefited your class and gear releases that benefited your class.

Pro use of repeated logical fallacies.

Why do I get the feeling you don't understand what a logical fallacy is? This should be good, point out one logical fallacy in my last 3 posts, and if you find one I'll go ahead and waste my time discussing how purify fits into class balance (and respond to your previous post).

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A whole lot of ad hominem in there without any substance to your post. You'd probably be having a lot more fun right now if you started learning how to pvp without aps and spent less time QQing on the forums. Casters would be horribly underpowered if you just removed purify proc tomorrow without changing anything else, and no amount of whining from you is going to get the devs to give you easy mode again.

I'd say the amount of PvP I've done over the years has given me enough experience to judge whether or not an add is balance breaking or not, and Purify Spell breaks it. Consider the amount of damage Casters can put out. That fire combo you Wizards like to use? The 10k+ hits you dish out have NOTHING to do with Purify Spell. Removing that in no way hinders your ability to use it. It will force you to use your genie more sparingly or use apothecary to successfully get it off without being locked down, but you can use it with or without Purify Spell. Psychics? They can still use their voodoos and passively seal you. Clerics? They can still use UV Dance and perform their combos. Surely you see where I'm going with this, the removal of Purify Spell would not render casters underpowered because the reality of it is they weren't underpowered to begin with. R9 made them far too hard to bring down with APS alone, so the people that were bringing them down had to have enough skill to lock them down or resort to underhanded tactics such as stealth sparking.

Easy mode was when you APSed a caster with worse gear than you, even pre-R9 it gets to the point where a properly skilled Arcane can tank you long enough to break your stuns. I know this from personal experience, considering the multiple casters I've fought who had gear refined enough to take my hits.

This isn't QQ, this is stating my opinion on the subject. You accuse me of having nothing to back up my claims when I've given you plenty, you say I'm QQing when I'm simply stating my opinion, these are usually signs of someone that's wrong but just can't admit it, or a troll. At least in my experience. I know you think you're right, I know you think you had the short end of the stick and that Purify Spell is the thing that has redeemed your class, but you're wrong in thinking that the add is justified. It's overpowered and fixes nothing, all it's done is cause the other end of the scale to become far more unbalanced than its melee counterpart ever was.

klys

The author of this started a NW complaint thread and the discussions have all pertained to NW flag running.
Need some mod to come move this to the appropriate sub-forum. Just a buncha flaming going on now since all the discussions on the topic have been exhausted.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling you don't understand what a logical fallacy is? This should be good, point out one logical fallacy in my last 3 posts, and if you find one I'll go ahead and waste my time discussing how purify fits into class balance (and respond to your previous post).

...

emotional appeal "But we would be underpowered QQ"

Red herring: "Pffft you do *blatently biased and innacurate scenario that will take months and totaly throw you off this arguement""

And thats just 2 specific examples I dont feel like digging out my old textbooks to go through the entirety of your last 3 posts and label every single line with a specific term.

The long story short of it remains:

Unbiased math and logic or your wrong.

Set aside your bloody victim complex for 5 minutes and try thinking with your head instead of your bleeding ovaries.

In addition to my original reasons why purify is OP in of itself lets discuss your "casters is underpowered" complex

All you need to do to prove that casters in general are in fact weaker than meles is the following.

Conceive any possible scenario where a caster and a mele class on equal speed fliers are at saaay 50 altitude. caster burns antistuns, caster drops and creates 40 meters of horizantal distance between the caster and the mele after they level out. Now prove that the mele can catch the caster before the caster wants to reinitialize the engagement.

At this point I'll hand it over to Zanthulu because put simply, you cant disprove my statements. Oh you can argue and spaz all you like. But you cannot disprove them with math or logic. Only with anecdotal evidence and that means jack all.

klys

ffs people, the instance is broken, not the weapon.
Here's a quick utube search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTyiHEGizqs
antistun+speed the entire run?
yea gg. Gotta stop whining and learn the play properly to combat opposing strategies.

AND some1 please move this nonsense to the NW subforum.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

klys wrote: »

ffs people, the instance is broken, not the weapon.
Here's a quick utube search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTyiHEGizqs
antistun+speed the entire run?
yea gg. Gotta stop whining and learn the play properly to combat opposing strategies.

AND some1 please move this nonsense to the NW subforum.

Anti-stuns, IG, AD, etc., are ruining NW. I'd say blanket ban on any kind of anything being used while carrying a flag, but... That doesn't really make sense in the end.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

klys wrote: »

ffs people, the instance is broken, not the weapon.
Here's a quick utube search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTyiHEGizqs
antistun+speed the entire run?
yea gg. Gotta stop whining and learn the play properly to combat opposing strategies.

AND some1 please move this nonsense to the NW subforum.

Not sure what part of the video you're referring to. A time would be nice.

Also, im failing to see how casters would be underpowered without purify proc, when wizards can get 18k pdef (21k if demon) with self buffs only. (Similarly, clerics, venos, mystics all have a pdef boost. If anything, psychics are the only class that can't self buff for more pdef). You are almost as tanky as a barb/Bm. Anything short of full r9rr you can tank by just standing there. Possibly double sparking aps r9rr sin would be the only non full r9rr class that can kill you solo? But even still they're a 1 shot. In fact, the entire r9rr thing was a horrible idea. The game was most balanced back when the maximum was r9r only.

klys

wuuuttt? the first part...and the whole video?????
antistun + speed the whole run.. runs both flags
oh, and the archer kills a caster with the purify proc running the flag....
also has numbers disadvantage most of the time...
idk but i'm pretty sure that vid makes any argument here moot.

You all talk in theory, but the truth is either you're undergeared or don't want to accept that it takes strategy to win.

Also, move this to NW subforum

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

klys wrote: »

wuuuttt? the first part...and the whole video?????
antistun + speed the whole run.. runs both flags
oh, and the archer kills a caster with the purify proc running the flag....
also has numbers disadvantage most of the time...
idk but i'm pretty sure that vid makes any argument here moot.

You all talk in theory, but the truth is either you're undergeared or don't want to accept that it takes strategy to win.

Also, move this to NW subforum

What strategy? You can have all the strategies you want but the opponent just sits there with his finger on the S key waiting on purify to proc.

And the wizard is undergeared compared to the archer. faceroll also didn't have his full squad there so he wasn't coordinating with people that's in that particular land cuz they're in another squad.

ATM, casters are king. You can set up the perfect combo and waste all your resources to do it but all it takes is some crappy luck with your opponent's purify to throw you out of whack.

klys

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

And the wizard is undergeared compared to the archer. faceroll also didn't have his full squad there so he wasn't coordinating with people that's in that particular land cuz they're in another squad.

THAT strategy, u said it- gear up and work as a team.



Also, please address the archer's ability to run the flag with antistun + speed the entire time.

AND move this to NW forum.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

klys wrote: »

THAT strategy, u said it- gear up and work as a team.



Also, please address the archer's ability to run the flag with antistun + speed the entire time.

basically you're saying to just gear up so far above the casters or gank him out the *** with +12 r999 weapons to win.
I guess you've never seen a demon veno run the flag with purify proc. toggle in and out of demon fox form gives you land mount like speed and it has 2 anti stuns to work with if you're demon and that's without any apo help.

klys

Yes, veno is broken too- we should nerf fox form.

??????

troll.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

klys wrote: »

Yes, veno is broken too- we should nerf fox form.

??????

troll.

Who said they're broken? You brought up the fact that an archer can run the flag fast so I brought up that a caster can run the flag just as fast if not faster without even using apo.

klys

YEESSSSS, exactly u see what I'm saying. The instance design is the problem, not any class or weapon.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

klys wrote: »

YEESSSSS, exactly u see what I'm saying. The instance design is the problem, not any class or weapon.

the **.. the purify is broken because it allows casters to just sit there without doing anything to get out of locks. at least before they had to time their anti stun or prevent stun skill now, being how most of them got a pdef buff skill, just sit there tank a few hits to proc purify and lolooloolol. you're also saying that we need to gear up so far above the caster to even kill one.. if that's not a class issue, i don't know what is.

Adroit - Lost City

@Zanyu - Your "experience" is outdated, and lacking. I'm tempted to type up a long elaborate post to defend my assertions, but quite frankly like I said before.. I'm not interested in going in circles, and pretty good chance you are going to fight me at every step when I tell you what pvp is actually like now. Go take a look at this vid, the wiz isn't played perfectly.. but I think it is good enough to get my point across. Mainly look at the first fight vs the sin (+6 wep, +8 or +10 armor.. I forget) and at the end vs the bm (full +10 bm I believe) and the wiz is full +12. After you've watched that.. if you still think proc is OP in 1v1s, then I'd say you are a moron and not worth my time.. if you recognize the need for some kind of defensively capability, I might be willing to talk with you further.. but right now it is obvious you have no idea what end game pvp is like (and I'm not going to spend my time educating you beyond pointing you to a video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjg-5_SQzDs

@Joshcja - I typed neither of the two sentences you have in quotes, so just stopped reading there. I did think it was funny that you named two logical fallacies, but the quotes you made up are not even examples of the fallacies you mentioned.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

@Zanyu - Your "experience" is outdated, and lacking. I'm tempted to type up a long elaborate post to defend my assertions, but quite frankly like I said before.. I'm not interested in going in circles, and pretty good chance you are going to fight me at every step when I tell you what pvp is actually like now. Go take a look at this vid, the wiz isn't played perfectly.. but I think it is good enough to get my point across. Mainly look at the first fight vs the sin (+6 wep, +8 or +10 armor.. I forget) and at the end vs the bm (full +10 bm I believe) and the wiz is full +12. After you've watched that.. if you still think proc is OP in 1v1s, then I'd say you are a moron and not worth my time.. if you recognize the need for some kind of defensively capability, I might be willing to talk with you further.. but right now it is obvious you have no idea what end game pvp is like (and I'm not going to spend my time educating you beyond pointing you to a video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjg-5_SQzDs
.

...How is my experience out-dated when I've been PvPing since before NW's release? Just because I don't use my Cleric doesn't mean I stopped. My experience is recent and relevant. I don't need to watch a vid when I've experience combat against Arcanes first hand pre and post Purify Spell. I'm fully aware of what end game PvP is like, and I'm fully aware of how hard casters can hit while an equally geared BM won't be able to come close that that kind of damage outside of extremely chi draining combos, and even then they're easy to get out of if you're not a complete moron.

You're silly. Everything you post is silly. People from PvP servers are supposed to have this vast amount of PvP knowledge and yet here we are, with you thinking something like this is balanced. With people like you around I'm amazed the whole "PvP server or gtfo" mentality started because it's obvious that you have no idea about what's good and bad for PvP, regardless of what stage of the game it's at.

klys

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

the **.. the purify is broken because it allows casters to just sit there without doing anything to get out of locks. at least before they had to time their anti stun or prevent stun skill now, being how most of them got a pdef buff skill, just sit there tank a few hits to proc purify and lolooloolol. you're also saying that we need to gear up so far above the caster to even kill one.. if that's not a class issue, i don't know what is.

a few posts above you said the caster carrying the flag was undergeared and didnt have a team- which is why they died. Go figure... that's the strategy in NW- have the gear advantage and a better team. If the teams are even, the better team will win.
Purify proc wont do jack for u if the above criteria isnt met.
There are classes like archer and veno as u said that can bypass the need for this teamwork and just sneak the flag in.
Your argument is devolving to match everyone elses in this thread.

Some1 move this to NW forum.

____BM____ - Sanctuary

Disable the speed proc(not antistun/purify)in Nw flag carrying. End Thread.b:bye

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...How is my experience out-dated when I've been PvPing since before NW's release? Just because I don't use my Cleric doesn't mean I stopped. My experience is recent and relevant. I don't need to watch a vid when I've experience combat against Arcanes first hand pre and post Purify Spell. I'm fully aware of what end game PvP is like, and I'm fully aware of how hard casters can hit while an equally geared BM won't be able to come close that that kind of damage outside of extremely chi draining combos, and even then they're easy to get out of if you're not a complete moron.

You're silly. Everything you post is silly. People from PvP servers are supposed to have this vast amount of PvP knowledge and yet here we are, with you thinking something like this is balanced. With people like you around I'm amazed the whole "PvP server or gtfo" mentality started because it's obvious that you have no idea about what's good and bad for PvP, regardless of what stage of the game it's at.

Just because you are gimp and can't figure out how to pvp on your bm doesn't mean that purify is op. Go watch some competent bms fight some wizzies.. you are clueless.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Just because you are gimp and can't figure out how to pvp on your bm doesn't mean that purify is op. Go watch some competent bms fight some wizzies.. you are clueless.

Please, do tell me what you base your opinion off of. I'm not speaking purely from a BM's standpoint, I'm speaking from an overall standpoint. Something with defense that rival HA that can throw out serious damage and have a weapon proc that can make every tactic thrown at them useless if they luck out? Yeah, that's OP. If BMs, Seekers, or Barbs had that chances are every caster would be flipping tables out of sheer rage. Actually, hey! You know what, let's all have Purify Spell! Yeah, see since it's so great and all why not just let everyone have it! Best game ever.

No, but really. If all you can do at this point is call me a gimp with nothing to back it up, especially when in a previous post you emphasized the need for evidence to support a claim even though it was staring you in the face, then I don't think I can really take what you have to say seriously. You're wrong, you can't disprove that you're wrong, and at this point you're just trying to insult me. If I didn't know any better I'd say your gear has gone to your head and you've forgotten your roots, as is what happens to a lot of people who manage to go R9R3 regardless of the means by which they do it. Egos become overdeveloped and minds become clouded. It's sad, really, but there's nothing I can or care to do to bring you out of it. Of course, I admit this is just something I notice and it's possible that it may not apply to you, but something certainly has your judgement clouded.

You're a silly bear and I'm going to sleep.

ablabahabla

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Please, do tell me what you base your opinion off of. I'm not speaking purely from a BM's standpoint, I'm speaking from an overall standpoint. Something with defense that rival HA that can throw out serious damage and have a weapon proc that can make every tactic thrown at them useless if they luck out? Yeah, that's OP. If BMs, Seekers, or Barbs had that chances are every caster would be flipping tables out of sheer rage. Actually, hey! You know what, let's all have Purify Spell! Yeah, see since it's so great and all why not just let everyone have it! Best game ever.

so relying on luck is op, thats like saying a barb would be op cause he can get a zerk crit on arma .... and the chance to zerk crit is way higher than the chance of purify spell trigger ijs.

almost non of the caster classes have a anti stun skill at all, they always have to waste genie for anti stun and even then they never reach the 10sec of bms barbs sins etc.
Well seekers dont have anti stun as long as they aint sage and even then only 4 sec, but seeker got a buff like haveing almost full josd gear so they can tank it out i guess...

its not like u cant charmbypass casters anymore, i'm pretty sure every phys class is still able to hit an arcane one for 10k or a bit more you just have to watch out a bit more and get better in your timing. BM vs. wiz aint that hard either if u use drag on wiz with half hp and get a lucky zerk crit u sure gonna hit the wiz for 10k+ so he is dead if his hp is down half, and forceing a wiz to use up his genie shouldnt be that hard if the wiz aint uber pro.

so stop the QQing! the only thing where purify spell gets op is in nw, and even then its only when u got some **** gear people hitting the 3rd r9 caster. Otherways he will be dead before purifyspell even triggers once or twice. Overgeared pep always had the uber hand in pvp and they will always have, but in case of equal gears the game is pretty balanced at endgame and every class has the chance to kill an other, ecxept for archers trying to kill 50k hp barbs with an endless amount of hp charms lol

____BM____ - Sanctuary

ablabahabla wrote: »

so relying on luck is op, thats like saying a barb would be op cause he can get a zerk crit on arma .... and the chance to zerk crit is way higher than the chance of purify spell trigger ijs.

50k arma hitting you is OP ijs xD

ablabahabla wrote: »

its not like u cant charmbypass casters anymore, i'm pretty sure every phys class is still able to hit an arcane one for 10k or a bit more you just have to watch out a bit more and get better in your timing. BM vs. wiz aint that hard either if u use drag on wiz with half hp and get a lucky zerk crit u sure gonna hit the wiz for 10k+ so he is dead if his hp is down half, and forceing a wiz to use up his genie shouldnt be that hard if the wiz aint uber pro.

Awww you silly silly naive alt poster.... Wizzies have bordering 20k phys resistance nowadays only people that can hit them for 10k is archers purged or barbs with arma, you have no clue on end game if you think wizzies are "easy" to kill b:laugh

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

ablabahabla wrote: »

so relying on luck is op, thats like saying a barb would be op cause he can get a zerk crit on arma .... and the chance to zerk crit is way higher than the chance of purify spell trigger ijs.

almost non of the caster classes have a anti stun skill at all, they always have to waste genie for anti stun and even then they never reach the 10sec of bms barbs sins etc.
Well seekers dont have anti stun as long as they aint sage and even then only 4 sec, but seeker got a buff like haveing almost full josd gear so they can tank it out i guess...

its not like u cant charmbypass casters anymore, i'm pretty sure every phys class is still able to hit an arcane one for 10k or a bit more you just have to watch out a bit more and get better in your timing. BM vs. wiz aint that hard either if u use drag on wiz with half hp and get a lucky zerk crit u sure gonna hit the wiz for 10k+ so he is dead if his hp is down half, and forceing a wiz to use up his genie shouldnt be that hard if the wiz aint uber pro.

so stop the QQing! the only thing where purify spell gets op is in nw, and even then its only when u got some **** gear people hitting the 3rd r9 caster. Otherways he will be dead before purifyspell even triggers once or twice. Overgeared pep always had the uber hand in pvp and they will always have, but in case of equal gears the game is pretty balanced at endgame and every class has the chance to kill an other, ecxept for archers trying to kill 50k hp barbs with an endless amount of hp charms lol

Bahahaahaha okay so I lied when I said I was going to sleep, I got distracted with working out a business proposition with someone and browsing 4chan, but holy balls you're funny. Adroit, come tell this guy he's a gimp and needs to learn his class so I don't have to. Oh lawdy. You're so wrong it physically hurts. You're not gonna zerk crit 10ks on something that has the defense of an HA under normal circumstances, you just plain and simply are not. If you're going to do that it'll take extreme amounts of chi and genie resources, you see while a Wizard or other caster will use their genie for stunbreaking a BM or the like will use their on amps or keeping the opponent in place to unleash their combos. That's how it is, both parties have to use resources to try to gain an upperhand.

Oh, by the way since you seem to be unable to comprehend this, zerk crits are pure luck. You're saying we have to rely on sheer luck to be able to kill a Caster, when skill ceases to be a factor and it comes down to luck more than anything then that's when you know something is wrong. Casters can resist stunlocks without luck, but with Purify Spell now they can escape even the best locks that utilize a genie and skill cooldowns to their fullest. They can negate any and all debuffs for no cost. It may not be at will, but then again neither are zerks or purges (from Archers.)

Man. If there are any supporters of Purify Spell that have a shred of intelligence PLEASE make yourself known, because arguing with people who seem to have a severe shortage of braincells is getting boring. Come on, anyone? Please?

Adroit - Lost City

____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »

50k arma hitting you is OP ijs xD




Awww you silly silly naive alt poster.... Wizzies have bordering 20k phys resistance nowadays only people that can hit them for 10k is archers purged or barbs with arma, you have no clue on end game if you think wizzies are "easy" to kill b:laugh

Oh this is so wrong, archers don't hit me anywhere near 10k.. bms/barbs/seekers hit me for that much fairly regularly however.

klys

klys wrote: »

ffs people, the instance is broken, not the weapon.
Here's a quick utube search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTyiHEGizqs
Archer antistun+speed the entire run?
Caster with purify proc dies with flag.
yea gg. Gotta stop whining and learn the play properly to combat opposing strategies.

AND some1 please move this nonsense to the NW subforum.

Hi everybody.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

The only time I scored in that second match was after I burned an IG on digging the flag then I had to wait 2 minutes while carrying the flag so that a charger orb would be off cooldown. I then spend 2 sparks on anti stuns and the charger orb to get the flag to the goal. An equivalent caster wouldn't have to wait after burning an IG to dig since purify spell doesn't have any cooldown at all and doesn't use any sparks.

There are counters to an archer flagger that most people aren't using.
Reel In / Stormrage Eagleon / Transposition / Bramble Tornado are all effective.
A purge will stop an archer dead in their tracks. If any of these go off you will be stuck short of the goal with no genie / apoth / speed.

The only real counter to a caster flag carrier is to outright kill them. Any attempt to slow them down is likely to speed them up. The best strategy is to stand in front of them and triple spark.

Really my biggest problem with purify spell is that it has no cooldown and takes no chi. It gives 200% speed, purify, and anti stun. If all that were an actual skill it would have a significant cost behind it but casters get it for free with no cooldown as a passive ability while just standing there.

Hannsel - Dreamweaver

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

basically you're saying to just gear up so far above the casters .......

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

.... you're also saying that we need to gear up so far above the caster to even kill one.. if that's not a class issue, i don't know what is.

back when aps was dominant in pvp AA had to outgear the attacker to have any chance. now the shoe is on the other foot b:laugh

Zsw - Dreamweaver

klys wrote: »

a few posts above you said the caster carrying the flag was undergeared and didnt have a team- which is why they died. Go figure... that's the strategy in NW- have the gear advantage and a better team. If the teams are even, the better team will win.
Purify proc wont do jack for u if the above criteria isnt met.
There are classes like archer and veno as u said that can bypass the need for this teamwork and just sneak the flag in.
Your argument is devolving to match everyone elses in this thread.

Some1 move this to NW forum.

I only looked at the first 2 minutes since you won't state specific times in the video. Asterelle was not alone in the fight. She even had a cleric. That's not a very good example of how "OP" archers are, when a caster could do the same, but without anyone else helping.

However, she can still be stopped. If say, she was to be ganked while digging the flag, she would be forced to use an IG and loose 20 seconds of max speed. If a caster uses an IG, it's okay, since they can use purify to boost themselves. A end game archer can be stopped by a bunch of low geared people, while a caster cannot.