...So why DOESN'T bramble work in PK?

krisnda

So with Veno's as squishy as they are, giving them the ability to use Bramble in PvP (without all the crap you guys want to add in there [magic reflect?]) would make them "overpowered?"

This now sounds more like a statement of "They don't need it because that would mean that people have to use 'skill' now."

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Krisnda wrote: »

So with Veno's as squishy as they are, giving them the ability to use Bramble in PvP (without all the crap you guys want to add in there [magic reflect?]) would make them "overpowered?"

This now sounds more like a statement of "They don't need it because that would mean that people have to use 'skill' now."

just make blazing barrier have the same duration and cooldown as tidal

WenSon - Harshlands

stopped reading ur response to me after i jumped between a few sentences

i know some sins that dont "HERPDERP", but what you dont get is, when they dont herpderp, whats the point on dealing 4k dmg with a skill and receiving almost the same amount from bramble+reflect combo ????

can u answer this ?
THIS IS PSY HERPDERPING

u wouldnt need to do anythn but tank this sht out and they die all by themself ... this is totally not balanced when people just kill themself by attacking u (AND I DONT MEAN 5APS NAPSTUFF)

SO BASICALLY your question is right
why does it work in tw/nw but not pk... i totally agree with u in this question
the solution u want is just nooblike wrong
instead of making it pk available it should be removed from tw/nw too

or another solution
bramble can work, but cant stack with psy reflect
so when under attack only the one with highest dmg return should trigger while the 2nd buff does nothn... so venos can bramble random people but it cant be overabused in combination with psy buff

u **** cant be serious that u want these two buffs work together...

Quilue - Sanctuary

I was hoping you people would be better than this....The reason it doesn't work in PK is the following:

Bramble damage is dependent on your opponent's gear (while Psy reflect is dependent on your own). There is no reason why people should be punished by having better gear - this game doesn't work like that.

Bramble can be cast on everyone and their mother, it's not just about Venos, it's about Bramble on every class and melees not being able to PK without ticking their charm unless they significantly out gear their Brambled opponent.

Bramble reflect is not reduced by the buffed character's own defense, which means melees could hit themselves for more damage than they deal - again complete BS. The same could be said of Psy reflect, but again, Psy reflect has a longer cd.

How come it can work in certain events if at all? Because melees can contribute CC and tanking skills and are not there necessarily to kill people. ie: BMs that fist in TW are *******. In open PK they often have to rely on their own damage to participate. I don't know how Nation Wars work because I am not playing the game right now so I can't comment about that.

At any rate, ranged characters are at a significant advantage in the air in open PK, there is no reason why melees should be punished further. If it's about sins, they should just nerf sins.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Come on, the people making an argument against Barrier/Hood are just being ridiculous... JUST STOP ATTACKING for 15 secs, you can still use control skills and your deffensive/survival stuff. Honestly, you're QQing that you can't simply stun out of stealth, get your kill, then stealth out? It's Sin that's broken and OP not Veno reflect. If Bramble was made functional in open PK it would at least give all other classes a fighting chance in 1vs1 PK, because what's really not fair is to expect everyone else to go through the expense of permanently using stealth pots (not to mention the handicap of keeping apo on CD) just so you can feel reassured your ganking us is a "fair" fight. Guess what? It isn't, you guys still get stuff like Tidal, Subsea, Power Dash and Headhunt, not to mention that if we somehow manage to fight back you can cheat your way out of a fight with Deaden Nerves and Shadow Escape. Honestly, what freaking class other than Barbie is safe from getting stealth ganked by an equally geared Sin? Or do you honestly expect us to use the force and sense when you're about to strike? Just because most Sins are dumb enough they fall for the Jedi mind trick doesn't mean we have those kind of powers...

How can you people even complain about being squishy? Honestly, PW could very well give you guys Invoke and the opportunity to wear HA and your average Sin would probably think it's only fair... It comes down to this, there's plenty of ways to get around Bramble and the other Veno reflect effects, those of you who can't manage are just paying a tax on stupid.

Edit; And Oh, yeah, I even forgot to include Shadow teleport...

@Quilie, you may have been gone for a long time, I don't usually see Melees struggle at all with Bramble Guard.

SteelStar - Heavens Tear

They changed that a long time ago, along with other classes, before sins even came out because it was making PK too hard. Would nice if our older classes skills worked in PK as they do in PVE, Another nice one would be Slam from a barbarians point of view. Another one would be the wizards push back (don't know the name of it).

Quilue - Sanctuary

edit: Bramble Hood can work for all I care, but not Bramble Guard. That's just too face roll.

asasasasasasasasaasas

i LOL at ppl saying "if bramble were available in pk sins would had to lear their class, use "skills", etc"
Think about it

Subjet A: Sin with 10k hp + Sage Bp

Subjet B: [add your favorite class here] with 16k hp + demon bramble (70%)

---

Subjet "B" its laying on the ground while singing TROLOLOLOL
Subjet "A" hits 3000 dmg > -2100 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +90 HP
Subjet "A" hits 2500 dmg > -1750 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +75HP
Subjet "A" hits 3000 dmg > -2100 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +90HP
Subjet "A" hits 4000 dmg > -2800 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +120HP
Subjet "A" hits 3000 dmg > -2100 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +90HP
Subjet "B" its still singing TROLOLOLOL

Subjet "A" dmg: 15.500

Sujet "B" dmg: 0 + 10850 (reflect)

Winer: Subjet "B" Final hp = 500HP

---

So yeah, thats an exciting fight... you are pro now, you won while doing nothing.
What do you ppl expect from sins? to use a bow? to go antistun + IG or domain and hit until the inmunity its gone and kill or die?
Thats not funny at all.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

asasasasasasasasaasas wrote: »

i LOL at ppl saying "if bramble were available in pk sins would had to lear their class, use "skills", etc"
Think about it

Subjet A: Sin with 10k hp + Sage Bp

Subjet B: [add your favorite class here] with 16k hp + demon bramble (70%)

---

Subjet "B" its laying on the ground while singing TROLOLOLOL
Subjet "A" hits 3000 dmg > -2100 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +90 HP
Subjet "A" hits 2500 dmg > -1750 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +75HP
Subjet "A" hits 3000 dmg > -2100 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +90HP
Subjet "A" hits 4000 dmg > -2800 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +120HP
Subjet "A" hits 3000 dmg > -2100 reflect < + 3% hp (sage bp) = +90HP
Subjet "B" its still singing TROLOLOLOL

Subjet "A" dmg: 15.500

Sujet "B" dmg: 0 + 10850 (reflect)

Winer: Subjet "B" Final hp = 500HP

---

So yeah, thats an exciting fight... you are pro now, you won while doing nothing.
What do you ppl expect from sins? to use a bow? to go antistun + IG or domain and hit until the inmunity its gone and kill or die?
Thats not funny at all.

So, no damage reduction, Ironguards, genies or any use of skills whatsoever by the Sin involved in this fight... And you're questioning this would lead to Sins learning their class?

b:angry And I'll have you know good sir that my veno doesn't just stand around idling singing trololol in the midst of a PvP battle, she's old school and does the leek spin... b:chuckle

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Bramble reflect is not reduced by the buffed character's own defense, which means melees could hit themselves for more damage than they deal - again complete BS. The same could be said of Psy reflect, but again, Psy reflect has a longer cd.

Wrong

I've tested bramble return with AND without Dew Star of Protection and when it's active it reduces the bramble by a pretty big margin. This also inclines me to believe that defense levels also somewhat reduces bramble damage (though maybe not THAT much)






As for YOU LongKnife you must be crazy about bramble in open world PK. Now as a sin (shut up ijs) I know there's plenty of ways (with aps) to TEMPORARILY stop and/or reduce bramble damage return vs opponents, but that simply isn't enough. b:angry There's only a small window for me to kill my opponent (with aps) without endangering myself of suiciding on bramble and the biggest window I can possibly make is about 25 seconds MAX. (with dew + bloodfrenzy active + AD) Now usually my opponent isn't going to be stupid and let me actually wail on him/her for 25 seconds without retaliation or immuning or stunning/sealing etc etc etc and when those 25 seconds are up........then what? Restealth? Get called a stealth noob that can't kill without stealthing 1v1? No, not really because when that happens I won't restealth. (rule of thumb to not do that in a 1v1)

Idk what you mean by "practice vs bramble" there is NO practice with DPH or APS there is NOOOO practice vs bramble because the only way you can stay alive is with apoth and genie or RESTEALTHING which you guys will QQ about so wtf do you want us to do? Rofl

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Or as an alternative, they could tweak it to reflect melee but not to reflect physical skills.

Now THIS I can completely agree with hands down -applauds- this will teach sins to either learn how to skill spam properly or go reroll another class b:laugh

bitewarrior

alright i never post, but for that one i have too.

I'm a sin a bramble is unfair, but yet like i learned..life is a b... just deal with it.

I got a first few points all these comment come from high lvl jaded r9 player so it is evenmore unfair.

I remember cleric QQ all day long about sin in TW yet if they got bramble and they can damd learned their skill and use plum shell and learn their toon they are unkillable if closelly guarded. so..... take it like you want

none the less i'm an aps sin an i can barelly handle bramble and i'm jaded +2 the truth is fuzzy post, i'll explain all sin invest in attack all in +12 att lvl shard full dex and name it. In order to handle bramble they need the rest of their gear refine like their weapon are + they need to use the lvl 100 skill blood frenzy or simply die. the game is just about balance, but R9 bramble is no where close to that.

This whole post is just a big QQ, so i'll put mine if you need to be +2 jaded head to toe +12 r9 archer to be top PvP player it is unfair to QQ on TT99 gear sin,,,period.

if you have 5 people or sin on you it is maybe cuz your 1000% evasion is too much and only one class won't miss and you can 1 shot them all for the most part QQ lmao.

Liam_ - Sanctuary

Is it just me who finds myself often charging down on veno's with my claws in NW for a quick kill? Pretty sure physical defence reduces a lot of the damage, usually a regular pot will cover it. A lot of veno's seem to just stand there expecting bramble to help them kill you, which makes things even easier.

R999 psy's on the other hand are a different story. Aps'ing there is just suicide.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

"maybe since melee DDing against a target against whom melee DDing would kill me, i have crappy defensive stats, but can avoid control skills and 1 shots, and i have many control skills, i shouldn't assume the roll of super DD like i did in nirvana, and focus more on controlling targets, and not try to kill a target untill i can see that attacking them will not guarantee my own death"

thought no sin, ever.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

Truthfully I expect to see a mass changing of the gaurd so to speak. Pretty soon archers,psy, and wizards will be the mass produced classes and people will have to hunt for a decent sin or bm.

The game is nowhere near balanced pvp it was only ever swayed sins way because that was the main farming toon that got the good gems and refine. Even with plain r9 and proper high lv refines/gems a sin was nolonger at such an advantage.


I can care less about bramble, I want my fire bird spell to knock back players like it is suppose to. It is aparently not gamebreaking for mystics to have a knockback, so what the hell.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »

Now as a sin (shut up ijs) I know there's plenty of ways (with aps) to TEMPORARILY stop and/or reduce bramble damage return vs opponents, but that simply isn't enough.

bitewarrior wrote: »

none the less i'm an aps sin an i can barelly handle bramble and i'm jaded

Here's your problem. Once again, APS is a PvE farming build. It's sacrificing any blue text advantages and complect bonuses in your gear in order to get interval. This is a tradeoff you're consciously and purposefully pursuing so that you can get a better sustained dps. In other words you're choosing damage over defense. I think it's rather cheeky for you guys to have the nerve of complaining about how squishy you are when this is precissely what you were going for...

You people want to have your cake and eat it too, and the worst of it is you actually can. You get plenty of stuns and control, immunity and survival, big hits and coup de grace skills... And you have your stealth. You're a freaking OP broken class and PW has apparently made everything that is within their power to guarantee no other class could ever beat you 1vs1 (which does translate to mass PvP for those with the actual sense to learn how to play their class) and yet you choose to complain because of the posibility some other class may actually have a way to counter you. Guess what, you already won, not only has Bramble Guard always been useless in open world PvP, they even took our Bramble Hood away, and all for the sake of griefers and bullies that want to be given the illusion they beat other players because they've got "skill". This isn't, it's never been, about class balance, but about catering to the lowest common denominator of people attracted by your class. The only reason we ever got to keep our reflects for mass PvP is even the devs must have figured there actually is a limit to what the rest of the playerbase will take...And they may have miscalculated and erred on the side of caution there seeing what we already put up with. Take a look at the recent boosts we've been getting, all carefully designed not to mess with your delusions of pwn'age.

Seriously... b:bye

MageFizban - Lost City

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"maybe since melee DDing against a target against whom melee DDing would kill me, i have crappy defensive stats, but can avoid control skills and 1 shots, and i have many control skills, i shouldn't assume the roll of super DD like i did in nirvana, and focus more on controlling targets, and not try to kill a target untill i can see that attacking them will not guarantee my own death"

thought no sin, ever.

Lol'd

Decus - Dreamweaver

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Lol'd

Honestly, that was pretty funny.

Longknife - Harshlands

Let me just ask a question that's been alluded to but not directly asked:

For the people who don't want this, why not? I mean as I said, what's the satisfaction in being able to herpderp in PK, a dying business, when no matter how many people you may herpderp in PK, that won't gain you ANYTHING in Nation War or Territory War, where actual money and benefits are at stake?

I mean that's the equivalent of if they LA Lakers were to do exhibition matches strictly with a lighter-weight basketball and a lowered basketball hoop. What's the point when that won't do you any good whatsoever for the actuall NBA season itself?

Spinner_ - Sanctuary

Skaitavia wrote: »

I agree with Longknife about sins still being capable with their target brambled, but there is a limit.

When facing a full r9r2 fully buffed sin that has pretty high defenses (upgraded r9 ring as well) and jades, even though I was fully buffed and full r9r2'd, his bramble hit me for 6.7k for a single Tackling Slash, and again, another 6k with a throatcut.

Bramble is just wrong when it's on a LA class, as r9r2 ones have a 65+% crit rate, which more or less makes every bramble reflect crit.

I think it's fine as it is, and we just have to let those APS sins learn the hard way.

Im pretty much agreeing with Skai here.... Reflect would literally absolutely kill off the sin population for good, reflect not only hurts an APS sin but it hurts DPH sins too(only good sins are DPH).

Tbh, if your having trouble with herpaderp sins in pk then upgrade your gear so your not so easily killed... Herpaderpa sins are the most pathetic in the game, even with r999 weapon they are still using TT99 which is a 2 hit at worst for anybody with G16/R9 so why want it any easier to kill them? lol

Allisandre - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Here's your problem. Once again, APS is a PvE farming build. It's sacrificing any blue text advantages and complect bonuses in your gear in order to get interval. This is a tradeoff you're consciously and purposefully pursuing so that you can get a better sustained dps. In other words you're choosing damage over defense. I think it's rather cheeky for you guys to have the nerve of complaining about how squishy you are when this is precissely what you were going for...

You people want to have your cake and eat it too, and the worst of it is you actually can. You get plenty of stuns and control, immunity and survival, big hits and coup de grace skills... And you have your stealth. You're a freaking OP broken class and PW has apparently made everything that is within their power to guarantee no other class could ever beat you 1vs1 (which does translate to mass PvP for those with the actual sense to learn how to play their class) and yet you choose to complain because of the posibility some other class may actually have a way to counter you. Guess what, you already won, not only has Bramble Guard always been useless in open world PvP, they even took our Bramble Hood away, and all for the sake of griefers and bullies that want to be given the illusion they beat other players because they've got "skill". This isn't, it's never been, about class balance, but about catering to the lowest common denominator of people attracted by your class. The only reason we ever got to keep our reflects for mass PvP is even the devs must have figured there actually is a limit to what the rest of the playerbase will take...And they may have miscalculated and erred on the side of caution there seeing what we already put up with. Take a look at the recent boosts we've been getting, all carefully designed not to mess with your delusions of pwn'age.

Seriously... b:bye

+100 You hit the nail on the head here.

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Or as an alternative, they could tweak it to reflect melee but not to reflect physical skills...

This is a good idea. even using skills the base damage would be reflected back, but then it would force Sins, BM's, and APS barbs to actually learn how to play and use their skills in order to win. Which will reduce the population for sure because the majority of these people are Hyper CS Idiots.

Haila - Sanctuary

Stupid bramble only works on melee classes, percentage of all other classes is like 60%.
This lame poll is RIGGED

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

Stupid bramble only works on melee classes, percentage of all other classes is like 60%.
This lame poll is RIGGED

QQ only melees can be APS....

When I see sins, bms and even barbs kill themselves on my bramble, I think it's time for these class to wake up and understand that there's something else than ASP.

FayHumming - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

QQ only melees can be APS....

When I see sins, bms and even barbs kill themselves on my bramble, I think it's time for these class to wake up and understand that there's something else than ASP.

b:chuckle all stupid aps think they only one can farm. so many fail sin switch to different main.

Wampirewoman - Harshlands

b:chuckle yup we need bramble
I am sick to go pvp and boom 2-3 sins pop-up out of nowhere and kill me .... meh and the cleric of the squad died ... I am so sick of sin that double spark in stealth and jump on me .... and to be sure i won't make it out of there i get 2-3 sins in best case at least r9 .

And since we talk about pvp/pve skills why in this world mystic knockback works in pvp and other classes just can say .... o i have that too... o *** it doesn't work for me ... make it work for archer , bm , barb and others that can use in pve only .

b:thanks At least make it for pvp servers cos on pve servers pk is somewhere to nothing .... b:shocked had to travel all arch to find few white people and red or pink is something like wow ... u find 1 u hit the jackpot . b:surrender No offense but this is what i saw on 2 pve servers .

Veneir - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

.

and even barbs kill themselves on my bramble,

What.
What.
What? D: Dx...

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Veneir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What.
What.
What? D: Dx...

Ye and not only on my veno sometime on my mystic too. xD

Veneir - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Ye and not only on my veno sometime on my mystic too. xD

What but hooow xDDD *facedesk*
Even on a PvP server D:! Are they like even more ignorant of bramble over there, do you think than a PvE server since they run into the one time bramble randomily decided to not work?

Haila - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

QQ only melees can be APS....

When I see sins, bms and even barbs kill themselves on my bramble, I think it's time for these class to wake up and understand that there's something else than ASP.

Its still rigged whatever u say i dont see any caster or archer vote no on this poll
HAHAHAHA

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Veneir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What but hooow xDDD *facedesk*
Even on a PvP server D:! Are they like even more ignorant of bramble over there, do you think than a PvE server since they run into the one time bramble randomily decided to not work?

Too use that in PvP that don't work I guess, so in NW they ASP and poof die to bramble.

APS people are one-trick pony and don't know anything else.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Because BMs need more sin-focused stupidity tossed at us. b:sad