Strategies as a bm for NW?

Zarkin_Baxil - Raging Tide

Well my genie is 105 so I was able to thow more affinity into fire. And I like seeing r9r2 arcanes hit me for 50 damage with it on. I use it if AD is on cool down and I don't need the energy for Cloud Eruption. I don't run the flag much, I either cc on the oponents side of the field or act as a defender on our side of the field. Yea too bad it's just an anti stun and not a full movement debuff, but it serves its purpose. I also don't marow being sage, so being able to get an 11k m def shield for 12 sec is nice.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I got killed by Sakubatou today, he is not a ghost on the server b:dirty. That overtakes any strategy for NW.

Experiencing the same problem, our squad of 10 gets lands, but no one protects them, so our nation does not score well. Often times we find ourselves on the other side of kingdom come with all enemy territory.

There was a fight 20 vs 3, the other 2 were absent. I was the only one, the sin had the flag. Did not use running skills, took eons to get the flag across. Sadly i had too much heat to kill flag carrier, but got close a few times.

If you are a bm, find your points where your speed slows down from skills, apoc. Especially around the flag winning point. If enemy captures the flag, run back to that spot. We killed two flag carriers when our bunch joined the map, steps away from the flag point. Score was 12-0, but we won. Again, people focused on pking around them and not the flag carriers. There was one squad of r9 3rd casts, or super OP people, i zoomed past them because they didn't go for me.

Blade hurl = very very useful. There was a r9 wizzy that was harrassing me in a fight. Blade hurl saved my but, after the fire debuff, the blade hurl lands, timing issue of skills, stuns, seals. So a 5~20k hit became 50~250. Allowed me to use smack next, cut the distance, stun, fist away, drake bash, fists and have fun. The jumping around is annoying, but i can live with that.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I got killed by Sakubatou today, he is not a ghost on the server b:dirty. That overtakes any strategy for NW.

Lol, I didn't see you Q.q I spend alot of my time checking who I killed and who killed me and whispering. Usually friendly unless they're a friend I can trash talk. Sometimes its me apologizing for spawn killing or for killing the same person multiple times like i'm hunting them since I do feel bad for doing it but its also an effective strategy. I spend a fair amount of time trash talking in my own faction. There are alot of great players on Sanctuary but really only 2 factions that field 10 people teams full of deadly people and as often as not its a full team of my own faction mates I'm up against. That gets the whispers going (and the apologies when I'm hunting faction clerics).

Tonights nw was horrid for me. 5.8k contribution. Dark Nation was 9 points out of first place, then with 45 minutes left 4th place Light Nation came out of no where and conquered the map and my nation finished last. I spent almost 30 minutes being landlocked or not getting into wars, laughing how it'd say 8 people on offense then right before I got there so would the entire Dark Nation and it'd say 104 people on offense before I was sent back to last position. Got to kill my faction leader though, so worth it. Last week I was in the winning nation with 13.2k contribution and got 4 times as many tokens as this week. Not bad for using PvE +6 Morai axes lol. I'm about 75% saved up for my r9 axes and 50% saved up for r9t2. I pretty much plan to make the jump from Morai axes to +8 Dervishes all at once.

I also noticed something. I had about an 8 minute fight with a barb. I dealt.... hundreds of thousands of damage to him and he dealt quite a bit to me. Then he ran, and nw ended (we lost. I assumed occupying one of their best flag carriers was a worthwhile use of my time.) In the end neither of us could kill the other alone but I felt like I was going to get a great score for all the damage I dealt to him. Instead it was very mediocre. I'm wondering if the person needs to die to get credit for the damage you dealt.

Another hint for flag runners is hit Holy Path at about 90% farming and it'll be active when you start running. Good for a fast escape from the pits and gets you past their spawn area. Combine that with Bodhi, Cloud Sprint, and 1 sprint apo and you can almost 15m/s it all the way to the flag. In between keep magic marrow on. Use your leaps for gaining more distance but also for avoiding damage. See a cleric channeling or a bm about to stun? leap forward and you have a 65% chance to avoid it (like Tidal Protection). Have dd's all around "s" key to turn around and then leap back and you'll have a 35% chance to negate damage (like Focused Mind).

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I was on my bm, killed me 3 times, our group killed you a few times to b:avoid. It's all fun to me, i never ran across any runs in any instance, bh, tt, lunar, warsong, so was happy to see you b:pleased.

Landlocking is getting to be an annoying issue. The NW on friday, we were in flame got 50 tokens, mostly land locked. This time i got 7.2k contribution and 95 tokens, so was happy about that. In the math thread, as i suspected is true. You have to win lands and hold them to get points for them. Our nation was bad at holding lands i guess.

The barb fight you had, depends on the score. If the total score for the battle was high, you two would get low~medium score. If the battle ended quickly, you two would get a much a higher score. If the fight takes 10~20 minute to finish, i am sure the heavy dd did farm more damage. If the fight was 3~5 minutes, your damage be superior.

I had that happen, 1 fight, barb vs me. 5 minutes we went at each other, neither died, until i messed up slightly. I got 1.3k score from that, 20 vs 20, fight ended in 5 minutes (won). Another fight 20 vs 14, we were 14. Barb vs my bm, same deal, 3~5 minutes of dd, barb died. Fight went on for 20 minutes, final score 540 (won). Another fight, 20 vs 8, we were 8, barb vs me, 4 minutes i think, judging from apocs i used, got 1.2k points, fight ended in 8 minutes (we lost, slow flag carriers).

There was one other fight last night, 20 vs 3, the other 2 people were in stealth or hiding really well, so it was 20 vs 1. 1.4k score, fight ended in 10 minutes, very slow flag carrier.

The holy path is a life saver. I will try leaps next time. I don't like the front leap, the distance seems short and takes too long to work. It always seems that we can cover the same distance if we just ran. Backward leap seems longer. Leaps in NW/TW over uneven terrain = annoying.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was on my bm, killed me 3 times, our group killed you a few times to b:avoid. It's all fun to me, i never ran across any runs in any instance, bh, tt, lunar, warsong, so was happy to see you b:pleased.

Landlocking is getting to be an annoying issue. The NW on friday, we were in flame got 50 tokens, mostly land locked. This time i got 7.2k contribution and 95 tokens, so was happy about that. In the math thread, as i suspected is true. You have to win lands and hold them to get points for them. Our nation was bad at holding lands i guess.

The barb fight you had, depends on the score. If the total score for the battle was high, you two would get low~medium score. If the battle ended quickly, you two would get a much a higher score. If the fight takes 10~20 minute to finish, i am sure the heavy dd did farm more damage. If the fight was 3~5 minutes, your damage be superior.

I had that happen, 1 fight, barb vs me. 5 minutes we went at each other, neither died, until i messed up slightly. I got 1.3k score from that, 20 vs 20, fight ended in 5 minutes (won). Another fight 20 vs 14, we were 14. Barb vs my bm, same deal, 3~5 minutes of dd, barb died. Fight went on for 20 minutes, final score 540 (won). Another fight, 20 vs 8, we were 8, barb vs me, 4 minutes i think, judging from apocs i used, got 1.2k points, fight ended in 8 minutes (we lost, slow flag carriers).

There was one other fight last night, 20 vs 3, the other 2 people were in stealth or hiding really well, so it was 20 vs 1. 1.4k score, fight ended in 10 minutes, very slow flag carrier.

The holy path is a life saver. I will try leaps next time. I don't like the front leap, the distance seems short and takes too long to work. It always seems that we can cover the same distance if we just ran. Backward leap seems longer. Leaps in NW/TW over uneven terrain = annoying.

Leaps are a life saver, but they really do need to fix them. Front leap only works properly if you're standing still, otherwise you get half of distance you should out of it. You can't Tiger Leap while frozen and Leap Back only works around 70% of the time (for me) in that situation. If they'd make our leaps work properly we'd have something very nice to use defensively. One can hope.

In any case, definitely start using them. They make all the difference in some cases.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I also noticed something. I had about an 8 minute fight with a barb. I dealt.... hundreds of thousands of damage to him and he dealt quite a bit to me. Then he ran, and nw ended (we lost. I assumed occupying one of their best flag carriers was a worthwhile use of my time.) In the end neither of us could kill the other alone but I felt like I was going to get a great score for all the damage I dealt to him. Instead it was very mediocre. I'm wondering if the person needs to die to get credit for the damage you dealt.

If you lose the battle you only get about 35% of the points you would have gotten otherwise. Check the Nation Wars math thread in General Discussion, it's extremely informative.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At 5 fire affinity and 108 Energy, Balance ftl. If it was full movement debuff immune it would be a must. But alas, tried it, I thought it really sucked. Could just AD for a few more seconds worth of energy instead.

Not to mention with the affinity costs of Balance and being it is a strength based skill, you'd have to give up fortify, cloud, AD, or Occult Ice on a STR genie to get it. Not worth losing a core skill.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have used pmarrow on purpose a few times tho. Once, when I was getting jumped by two sins and nobody else was around. A few other times vs some very inexperienced archers.

IF you do use phys marrow in a situation, ensure you are antistunned. Cause getting stunned in pmarrow really sucks if an AA or smart archer comes along..

I guess I'm not the only one to do this on occasion as well if I see a well refined R9 sin triple spark Ironguarded on me (or 2 sins single/double sparking) even if there's a R9 AA/Archer around; it's very situational though. You can actually get away with phys marrow + magic def charms just fine with 1 r9 AA/Archer on you ( assuming it's not a wizard that uses the undine / spark combo ). A R9 sin triple sparked can pretty much kill you in magic marrow using tangling mire so fast your charm won't even register to tick...

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I can only say 1 thing about this NW.

Holypath (at 90% flag dug)+cloud sprint+will of bod+charger orb, 20 vs 2, i was in the 2, i got the flag home with taking minimal damage b:victory. The above combo because of holy path gives you 3~5 seconds of extra running speed. Come in hand when you are half way done with cloud sprint but need to hit will of bod because people are close by, and use charger orb because they are catching up. That run was fun.

The hunted me down later though, 6~8 people took out their anger on me, i felt it b:sad.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can only say 1 thing about this NW.

Holypath (at 90% flag dug)+cloud sprint+will of bod+charger orb, 20 vs 2, i was in the 2, i got the flag home with taking minimal damage b:victory. The above combo because of holy path gives you 3~5 seconds of extra running speed. Come in hand when you are half way done with cloud sprint but need to hit will of bod because people are close by, and use charger orb because they are catching up. That run was fun.

The hunted me down later though, 6~8 people took out their anger on me, i felt it b:sad.

I am really conservative with my will of bod because I like to keep it in handy for use only when I really need it. There have been too many times where I used it too soon just for the speed boost because I didn't see anyone around, and only reach 90% of my destination before a sin un-stealths out of no where and stun locks me long enough for everyone else to catch up to me and purge and gank me and I lose the flag.

With the chi reduction in leaps, I just Holy path during dig, then charger orb, then cloud sprint, then leap spam my way to the end until people reach me and I am forced to use will of bod as a last resort, otherwise I'll never use will of bod.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I will use leaps more next time, often times i am low on sparks at that point, down to 20~1 spark. I keep 1 spark spare for diamond sutra situations.

You know the area after your cloud spring ends to the water edge and other side? That is the highest place where i get stunned and take damage. I tend to use will of bod there and charger orb after.

I learnt from barb, always be jumping. It reduces the chance of getting stunned, sealed.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Few things I've noticed:

1. You don't get any contribution on your last battle if it does not finish before time does. Contribution gets added after the battle is a victory or loss, so if NW time ends before your battle does, everything you did in that battle doesn't count.

2. Leaps will flat out not work at all after you've been inflicted with freeze, unless you move with keyboard or something first. Not sure if it was just because I was flying, but I was spamming the heck out of my leaps after the status effect ended and nothing happened for 10 seconds straight. Finally hit W key briefly then worked fine. Think it might also be the same with stun, but this glitch can mess you up if you try to use it to get out of the way of ranged attack only to find nothing happens.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Few things I've noticed:

1. You don't get any contribution on your last battle if it does not finish before time does. Contribution gets added after the battle is a victory or loss, so if NW time ends before your battle does, everything you did in that battle doesn't count.

2. Leaps will flat out not work at all after you've been inflicted with freeze, unless you move with keyboard or something first. Not sure if it was just because I was flying, but I was spamming the heck out of my leaps after the status effect ended and nothing happened for 10 seconds straight. Finally hit W key briefly then worked fine. Think it might also be the same with stun, but this glitch can mess you up if you try to use it to get out of the way of ranged attack only to find nothing happens.

1. Sad that it happens, i always remind people in the last 20 minutes to either win or loose their battles quick b:chuckle. Overall the nations get a bonus for last 10 minutes. This just helps increase personal scores. Especially for intense battles.

2. That is one of the reasons why i don't like leaps. Lots of rubberbanding spots in NW, where it won't show you rubberbanding unless you move. Another issue with leaps as you pointed out, sometimes they are not the most reliable.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Few things I've noticed:

I caught you a few times in nw. You like to stay airborne. At one point I tab targetted you and immediately just hopped onto a flyer. Knowing you had taken a long break and probably didn't have your Morai skills I used that to my advantage and got a tele stun and first strike.

But you obviously are a fan of the "fly above, drop into a group, stun and aoe like crazy" technique which admittedly in NW can be huge points but also makes you a target. Actually, the first time you did it I was already in a mosh pit with two sins so I had Bodhi active when you dropped down and stunned so I was lucky and able to stun you, otherwise I was screwed.


Jaabg, I had an interesting vent call with 4 minutes left. We had a nice long back and forth war and it was something like 12-15 so next flag delivery wins, but they were losing players from 5+ deaths. 4 minutes left and 5 people in my squad in the instance we decide we need to end it, just let them win, but then they lost the flag. All of a sudden the barb in our squad "I got the flag in east! I got the flag in East"... It turned into a bunch of cheering, heckling, "I'm on your left" "grab that archer" "GoGoGo!" "Get him some Elven Alacrity". Was just funny that 1 hour and 57 mins in we suddenly had an energy boost and a drive to finish before the time limit.

Oh, speaking of. One of the better squad techniques is keeping a sin near your spawn point to grab flag runners and keep an archer near their spawn point to use Elven Alacrity, 8 seconds of antistun and 15 m/s. If you're running as you dig let an archer know to meet you halfway to the flag of something.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Yeah, I stay in the air for the most part as I can, but don't really do any AoEs. I try to go after other flyers, since it's usually more of a 1 on 1 situation; which helps until I get geared up enough for later. Then do stuns and such to assist, and alot of the time stay on my flyer and claw with the intention to get more chi and then get out of there. Tend to get gankfested if I stay on the ground too much, so only dismount when there is a call for extra damage or I am pretty sure I won't get some R9 psychics attention.

The few times I've stayed mostly ground I tend to die without getting much accomplished, nowhere near the things I can do in the air. So for other BMs with weaker gear it's definitely a strategy for them to consider. In a good battle can usually get 700-1K+ contribution, just by focusing on stat effects and assists. Cleric ganking when they are in air is pretty sweet too.

EDIT: Though are you sure it was me? The only skill I use remotely AoE is HF, and even that is rarely. The few times I drop in an enemy group is to stun/Oceans an enemy flag carrier, or if there are a bunch of allied player's there too who in all likelihood are the targets of casters. So that way it's just splash I need to worry about. Too much self-preservation to drop in and spam AoEs.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Mhmm there are a lot of targets up in the air to pick from if you're so inclined. Lots of afk sin alts up there too.

Telarith - Sanctuary

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Mhmm there are a lot of targets up in the air to pick from if you're so inclined. Lots of afk sin alts up there too.

Plus I don't think I've ever been killed by a sin in any of the NWs while I'm in the air. Alot of them try, but their port skills and stuns just don't work very well. One froze me as I dropped flyer so he did only half damage, ended up reversing it and stun-locking him afterwards.

_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear

anti stun with IG then hurr durr roar hf and bramble

Jaabg - Sanctuary

_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

anti stun with IG then hurr durr roar hf and bramble

Awesome strategy, thank you for sharing b:victory.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

anti stun with IG then hurr durr roar hf and bramble

Notty you know better than this. I am disappoint.

_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Notty you know better than this. I am disappoint.

tsk tsk tsk wrong wrong malael, its "i am disappointed" not "i am disappoint"......



HEIL SPELLCKECK!!

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tsk tsk tsk wrong wrong malael, its "i am disappointed" not "i am disappoint"......



HEIL SPELLCKECK!!

*facepalm*

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/son-i-am-disappoint

Seriously your trolling is terrible, find a better hobby.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tsk tsk tsk wrong wrong malael, its "i am disappointed" not "i am disappoint"......



HEIL SPELLCKECK!!

Troll, I am disappoint.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Last NW i had a big noob moment. I ran the wrong way. I didn't do much dd, or take much damage in that nw. It was 20 vs 0 when i had the flag. When i reached my spawn point (wrong side) it was 20 vs 20. I ran back. Got the flag across still.

My score was 1.9k for that battle. Only thing i did, i kept the flag for 3~5 minutes. Not sure if longer you carry the flag more points you get. Might be something to keep an eye out for.

Similarly saw an archer, take the flag and just walk to spawn point. He went back and forth as well. Took immense damage but lived through it all. I am guessing his score was high. After taking damage for 4 minutes, he got bored and carried the flag over to win.

Saethos - Raging Tide

Now that we have this thread here http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1542891

We can really figure more of this out. With this in mind does anyone have a suggestion?

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Last night i didn't make apoc item. 3 battles, 20 minutes total, 4.8k points. Next 40 minute, i got another 700 points. I checked my land, we were at 100, other nations at 200. We had 0 lands.

If the above ever happens by the 1 hour mark, save yourself the trouble and leave. We went from 100 points to 130 points, 11 points being the end bonus, so in the last 60 minutes, only managed to get 19 lands in 6 countings. I left at 50 minute past. About 3 lands every 10 minutes. That is a horrible rate.

Previously for 5.5k, in 2nd, 3rd winning nation i would get 50~70 tokens. Because all other nations were almost twice our score and closely tied, we had a bad score. If you see something like that, swallow the pain and leave.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I am not sure about others, but i don't appreciate spam posts on bm forums

If someone can take a look at that user, it would be appreciated - message 2 b:chuckle.

I didn't go to NW this week, but judging from some of the reactions, didn't miss much. It is becoming gear saturated though, to get higher scores people need 2 things.

1) Good gear refines+shards

2) Close top score, or being in a winning nation.

Even if your contribution is 8k~12k, but nation score is under 100, it seems like a waste of time.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am not sure about others, but i don't appreciate spam posts on bm forums

If someone can take a look at that user, it would be appreciated - message 2 b:chuckle.

I didn't go to NW this week, but judging from some of the reactions, didn't miss much. It is becoming gear saturated though, to get higher scores people need 2 things.

1) Good gear refines+shards

2) Close top score, or being in a winning nation.

Even if your contribution is 8k~12k, but nation score is under 100, it seems like a waste of time.

I had about 11k contribution tonight but was in the losing nation and got 83 tokens. Not great, not horrible. That includes being base locked for 30-40 minutes of the NW.

I kept trying to break the base lock on my nation but it kept turning into these 20v20 where I'm the only person on my team I even see, surounded by 10 of the opponent. Oddly enough, and you know this from being on Sanctuary, there was alot of Legendary and Vindi squads that were working together. You'd have a 10 person LG squad and 10 from Vindi and although they're rival factions they got paired up in the NW and were working for base locks. Ran into 4 different NW that the opponent was half vindi, half LG.

Was kind of a crappy night. Like I said it was complete charm ****, but after being completely stomped and losing a reasonably quick NW 5-10 mins, I kept getting ranked first and getting 1-2k. Decent enough if we didn't end up last nation. Just a bad night where the most OP people all seemed to land in Flame.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Sooooooo far Im still making money, and so are others. Depends how many pots they're using.

Example is - return of 75 (18.75m). At most they're tossing about 10m in charm and pots. (~75% of a plat charm and ~2m in pots). Majority of my faction and friends earn minimum 50-75 tokens, and their gear varies from the +12 R9rr crowd to the TT99 +5 crowd. The lesser geared people seem to have WAY less charm loss. Even with worst case scenario, you're talking 2.5m for two hours of fun.

I said this a few weeks ago, with the price of charms at 8-10m, pretty soon people will go into NW charmless.

The base locking is bad, they really need to put in that update NOW. Our team + the other team did not lose a single battle last night, but last weekend I spent about the same time in base that I did fighting. Had lots of people log from multiple factions last night because two nations got uber base locked for a while. Some were reasonable logs, others were whiny rage logs.

The amount of people who stand at spawn and just buff while theres enemies around amazes me...

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - by top score i meant, the nation top score. Let's say winning nation is 200 points, 2nd place is 197 tokens. The token distribution will be similar for the two. If 2nd place is 170, it will be quite different.

The amount of people who stand at spawn and just buff while theres enemies around amazes me

Different classes get different buffs, on my bm i get bell, lvl 10 magic thingy, lvl 10 barb hp buff. I don't need to buff myself, so i fly away asap.

I go through 2 silver charms and 1 bronze charm, that is 800k hp, about 100~150 hp pots.

That is 5.3m, 150 pots = 27 tokensx12k = 324k, that means, about 5.7m cost. I get 30~140 tokens, mostly 60~100. Quite a few charm sellers are "noobs" as well. They are selling charms above the gold price. In their defense, charm buyers will buy it above gold price as well, so the universe balances out.

They need to have a slightly cheaper pack sale, so people open more packs and sell charm to the shops, most shops have 1~2 on sale, but are buying 4~12.

1 seal of war = 10m roughly, so i get 2~4.5m profit at the end of the day. The problem is, i use that instance to farm the tokens to make r9 ring, cube neck, sky cover ring, not sell the tokens. I farm, merchant other things to get the money for tradeable things.

I am hoping that soon enough number of people taking part falls off. There are fewer g15/g16 things being made, people are buying up gold for rep sale i think, on our server. That should help those who are still farming to get more tokens.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

No No No, I mean they don't even move or try and CC to get away from the spawn killers. Like I watched clerics and other classes just stand there after respawn, buff, and once the immunity wears off - die. Not even moved one inch. I had to remind a veno with me to move her *** when that happens more, cause I caught a BM on her (and killed it) because she was rebuffing and etc.

But yea I was trying to say that even at bare minimum, it's still profitable. I do think people will start to lean away from it (or at least stop using charms and apoth) if Raps bottom out from 250k to like 100-150k - because unless you perform well you're losing money.