Clerics. What pisses you guys off or annoys you when your in a squad?

opkossy

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

People that don't use WASD keys to move. This then causes them to miss or run off the platform in HDD every single time.

Well... um.... hm....

Do I semi-count since I switch between WASD and the mouse depending on what I'm doing? Sure I use WASD more often than not but some things (like back when healspamming a herc from 3-2 chains was a thing) I'll use my mouse for a bit more accuracy or to use lag to my benefit and stuff like that.

Eoria - Harshlands

OPKossy wrote: »

Well... um.... hm....

Do I semi-count since I switch between WASD and the mouse depending on what I'm doing? Sure I use WASD more often than not but some things (like back when healspamming a herc from 3-2 chains was a thing) I'll use my mouse for a bit more accuracy or to use lag to my benefit and stuff like that.

Nah. I don't mean like that.

But like...srsly. People be jumping+clicking over the the damn thing every time and I just...jdhidjiadjaiuwdadj. /rage.

While on this HDD tangent as well, people that pop the blue bubble too early and cause half the squad to wipe and people that keep on re-entering on 1st boss when all they do is die. ):

opkossy

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Nah. I don't mean like that.

But like...srsly. People be jumping+clicking over the the damn thing every time and I just...jdhidjiadjaiuwdadj. /rage.

While on this HDD tangent as well, people that pop the blue bubble too early and cause half the squad to wipe and people that keep on re-entering on 1st boss when all they do is die. ):

Ah yeah... times like that I wish I had a controlled res button where I could res someone... and they couldn't actually get up until AFTER I decided to allow them to.

ovenusarmanio

OPKossy wrote: »

Ah yeah... times like that I wish I had a controlled res button where I could res someone... and they couldn't actually get up until AFTER I decided to allow them to.

WTB controlled res button

Desdi - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

WTB controlled res button

Yes Yes Yes this ^

Terrwyne - Sanctuary

Seeing aba squad (on puppetter) about to wipe, I choose to res the second cleric in squad right before I die.. The cleric get up but die immediatly again due to squad wiping, then boss resets.. *sigh* goes to town and all way back...
wtb controlled res button too >.>

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

WTB controlled res button

This also. Lol.

Seriously. I want this. >_>

Christona - Raging Tide

When you go as a high level to help a lower leveled people out in a bh or something, and they think you will spend the next hour healing them instead of tanking it yourself in 20 minutes. I get that you want to do it yourself, and you want to feel accomplished. Then please when i send a pm saying "101 cleric i will solo it for you" reply back to me saying, "Only people that of whatever level can join" or something. If i can tank it myself, and half the time, [i do not even need to ih myself since i have elven bloom (oh elven bloom )] i will do so. I am far from the metalmager who doesn't heal people. I have plume sheilded a low level and went out of violet dance to heal them so they wouldn't die. On the rare occasion i am even in voilet dance. I still heal them when they get aggro, its not like i completely stop healing even when the lvl 74 barb stays in tiger form and gets 1/3 of hp knocked out in one hit from the boss, i stop DD'ing and put an ih on him, then go back to tanking the boss since i get aggro back in one hit.
Just use common sense. If the cleric is the best geared and can tank the whole instance why not let them? a 101 cleric with decent can far out damage any lvl 7x in Bh 59 and most people in bh69.

ovenusarmanio

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

When you go as a high level to help a lower leveled people out in a bh or something, and they think you will spend the next hour healing them instead of tanking it yourself in 20 minutes. I get that you want to do it yourself, and you want to feel accomplished. Then please when i send a pm saying "101 cleric i will solo it for you" reply back to me saying, "Only people that of whatever level can join" or something. If i can tank it myself, and half the time, [i do not even need to ih myself since i have elven bloom (oh elven bloom )] i will do so. I am far from the metalmager who doesn't heal people. I have plume sheilded a low level and went out of violet dance to heal them so they wouldn't die. On the rare occasion i am even in voilet dance. I still heal them when they get aggro, its not like i completely stop healing even when the lvl 74 barb stays in tiger form and gets 1/3 of hp knocked out in one hit from the boss, i stop DD'ing and put an ih on him, then go back to tanking the boss since i get aggro back in one hit.
Just use common sense. If the cleric is the best geared and can tank the whole instance why not let them? a 101 cleric with decent can far out damage any lvl 7x in Bh 59 and most people in bh69.

For me, it's the opposite. The rare times I go back on my cleric and help it is usually to heal. Although sometimes I admit since it's so rare that I go back, I do feel like dusting off her offensive sleeves. There is helping, and then there is expecting to do all the gameplay for them. The point isn't about feeling accomplished. People want help with learning their classes, to know what they can and can't do, to actually get well, help. Not watch someone else play the game for weeks and in some cases months for them. So that they can be shoved into FF and do the same instance and only that instance for a few more weeks. Only to be get kicked out of squads and yelled at for not having the right gear or knowing how to play in squad when they finally reach 100 and get to play with other people on a game that is supposed to be an mmo. And even if they make it out of all that competent and with decent gear for pve gear, they find out that they will need to spend like a year of their life or thousands of dollars, to be able to do a bit of pvp and keep up with the joneses. Because that's the cycle that chews up and spits out many of our new players. Go roll a low level yourself and try to level with at level BHs, and tell me you wouldn't understand why someone would actually just want a little help so they can actually play the game with others. If that's the kind of help they are seeking, I always gladly provide it. If they are trying to learn their class, it may benefit me in the long run to actually show them. Because the new player you refused to help because you could do it yourself faster (obviously) may just be that moron in your BH that gets you killed later on. Or they could find nice friendly people willing to spend some time with them to show them and the ropes. And become that cash shopper that helps to keep this game going. Or they could be the kickass friend who you do things with in the future and who learns how to play well, early.

Many of us veterans have those things and can point to players who helped us out. And who showed us the ropes. But act like it's an affront to be asked by other new players or others to provide the same thing. I'm not saying your guilty of it, but it is a trend I've noticed in the playerbase as a whole. This total contempt for new players (humph! I can do it faster and better! Quit begging for help! This noob in my bh69 didn't know what he was doing!) because of the assumption that they don't exist (I know for a fact that's bull because I've met them, and seen them post on the forums enough to know they do come in) or that because they are an alt they should know everything about every class, is destructive to the game. imo. But back in the day, PWI did it make more worth your while to help people, so it wasn't relying solely on the kindness of others hearts. And the game was less about solo mentality and everyone for themselves, and more about group play given that is an mmo. I do not miss the grindfest that it was, but I do miss the generally more positive attitude of the playerbase.

Christona - Raging Tide

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

For me, it's the opposite. The rare times I go back on my cleric and help it is usually to heal. Although sometimes I admit since it's so rare that I go back, I do feel like dusting off her offensive sleeves. There is helping, and then there is expecting to do all the gameplay for them. The point isn't about feeling accomplished. People want help with learning their classes, to know what they can and can't do, to actually get well, help. Not watch someone else play the game for weeks and in some cases months for them. So that they can be shoved into FF and do the same instance and only that instance for a few more weeks. Only to be get kicked out of squads and yelled at for not having the right gear or knowing how to play in squad when they finally reach 100 and get to play with other people on a game that is supposed to be an mmo. And even if they make it out of all that competent and with decent gear for pve gear, they find out that they will need to spend like a year of their life or thousands of dollars, to be able to do a bit of pvp and keep up with the joneses. Because that's the cycle that chews up and spits out many of our new players. Go roll a low level yourself and try to level with at level BHs, and tell me you wouldn't understand why someone would actually just want a little help so they can actually play the game with others. If that's the kind of help they are seeking, I always gladly provide it. If they are trying to learn their class, it may benefit me in the long run to actually show them. Because the new player you refused to help because you could do it yourself faster (obviously) may just be that moron in your BH that gets you killed later on. Or they could find nice friendly people willing to spend some time with them to show them and the ropes. And become that cash shopper that helps to keep this game going. Or they could be the kickass friend who you do things with in the future and who learns how to play well, early.

Many of us veterans have those things and can point to players who helped us out. And who showed us the ropes. But act like it's an affront to be asked by other new players or others to provide the same thing. I'm not saying your guilty of it, but it is a trend I've noticed in the playerbase as a whole. This total contempt for new players (humph! I can do it faster and better! Quit begging for help! This noob in my bh69 didn't know what he was doing!) because of the assumption that they don't exist (I know for a fact that's bull because I've met them, and seen them post on the forums enough to know they do come in) or that because they are an alt they should know everything about every class, is destructive to the game. imo. But back in the day, PWI did it make more worth your while to help people, so it wasn't relying solely on the kindness of others hearts. And the game was less about solo mentality and everyone for themselves, and more about group play given that is an mmo. I do not miss the grindfest that it was, but I do miss the generally more positive attitude of the playerbase.

I have one of each class above 60, all of them from questing and bh's. No FC heads for me I have plenty of experience with bh squads my level.
My Help when i was leveling up as a cleric, actually came from forums and from other clerics in my FB squads, that I annoyed the **** out of by asking 100's of questions to and begging for their advice on what I need to do and what I need to be improving on. I didn't sit back and wait for help. I actively seeked it out and drained every single drop of it once i found it. Even to this day, I still reread cleric guides on the forums to gain any bit of new knowledge and I compare my own notes of being a cleric to my few cleric friends on RT. Since i rarely get into squads with other clerics, its a bit harder to find cleric friends other than faction mates.
A few things from my point of view. For one asking for high level help back in the day when i was doing bh59 was unheard of. It was a squad of pure level 70's and perhaps a level 80 that's leveled from the daily stone or quest grinding (the good old days before FC heads became the right of passage). When the veterans of today played at this level that which we are helping now, the game was vastly different. Power leveling was accomplished from oracles, which are practically unheard of the new players of today. R9 wasn't even around when i was in my 70's yet alone r9rr. I do my bh's on all my toons daily. Most of the time from the lack of players I end up solo'ing it for my alts on my cleric or veno. Also, the lack of patience to find a squad and lack of teles. b:surrender But on days, I do put a pure squad of only the bh level people when i feel in the mood or have the 5x tele's to do so. As i recall, finding Bh39 squads was pretty simple and yes, those were all lvl 50's Now when was the last time you saw a pure lvl 50 squad do bh39?
Since, atleast in RT, most of the bh squads now have 5 players who need it, then one 100+ person to solo it. Atleast from where i stand, on my alts on the days where i feel too lazy to duo client my cleric/veno and my alt to do my alt's bh and i join a squad that's premade, i can count on one hand the squads that haven't had a high level in squad to help. Although I have never seen a high level cleric come in squad, other than myself. The ones that do come help aren't seen as support. You don't bother telling the 101 sin not to steal aggro from the barb, so the barb can tank the bh. Its absurd to do so.
You can say that I'm ruining the new players by bringing in my high level to solo the bh for them and actually help them unlike many who ignore the wc's for help which i only offer my help when i see them asking for barb, or high level help for more than 5 minutes in hopes that they will find a player their own level to do the bh with them.
And this is exactly what pisses me off. Just because, I'm a cleric and I can heal any bh in the game with my current gear doesn't mean when i go to help a squad in bh59 that I should stand in background and heal them which do not get me wrong, I happily slip an ih to the sin that gets aggro on a mob and let the squad attack it while i move on to more mobs. Also, when my veno comes in the squad to help, not one of them asks for anything but instead the barb gets out of tiger form if there is one, everyone is careful with aggro. Perhaps its just because that I came in as a Cleric that my toon is somehow unable to tank the bosses? I'm not sure.
I think you need to go back to level a few lower level toons and see what exactly Bh's are like today. They are vastly different from ones me and you were use to in the lower levels. Even when I keep quiet, and I do not offer to bring my high level toon in, 99% of the time, a 100+ toon does join and does do all the work for the squad.
If someone does ask for advice, I will happily spend my next few hours of any day of the week, except when I have tw, to sit with them and talk to them all they want but I stopped offering my advice before being asked, since the majority of people now find it insulting when i say anything to them, even when its use IH to heal the tank instead of CHB. Or to just ih the tank on messenager in Fc and only use CHB after the boss aoe's (to save the cleric mana, and also so the lvl 2 chb u have doesn't end up making the barb use 50 crabs during the boss fight).

Oh, by the way, since when are people shoved into Fc? My cleric didn't go til 86 and thats only because my friend needed a cleric and after he begged for 10 minutes that I finally went. My alts arent being pushed into doing any Fc's. Im not in an hurry for them to be lvl 100 and be coin sucking drains.
I agree that if you do not have proper gear, you will be treated poorly and not taken into squads. I'm sorry for that, but sadly, its how the game is. We all know PWI is a game of gears and not of skill. I cringe when i see a 101 cleric with a tt90 weapon and a mix of tt80-90 in BHSot. I know cleric's can get by on less, but still there is a point where you have to stop just doing the bear minium for your toon and start the drouling long boring task of farming gear. Its not easily nor is it fun, but if you want to have fun and be able to do things on pwi, you have to do the boring things first. I farmed a whole set of t3 (wih little cs'ing), and am currently farming/cs'ing my way into r9rr gear. I went to a lot of TT's and even more FWS's fo my gear. No it wasn't fun but it is what you need to do if you want play pwi. Sorry to say, but people need to farm more and stop trying to get by on the cheapest things they can find. I know plenty of friends that still haven't spend one cent on this game that have 5 toons all of which have average gear. (3.33 aps sin, full t3 seeker, mystic and so on)

ovenusarmanio

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have one of each class above 60, all of them from questing and bh's. No FC heads for me I have plenty of experience with bh squads my level.
My Help when i was leveling up as a cleric, actually came from forums and from other clerics in my FB squads, that I annoyed the **** out of by asking 100's of questions to and begging for their advice on what I need to do and what I need to be improving on. I didn't sit back and wait for help. I actively seeked it out and drained every single drop of it once i found it. Even to this day, I still reread cleric guides on the forums to gain any bit of new knowledge and I compare my own notes of being a cleric to my few cleric friends on RT. Since i rarely get into squads with other clerics, its a bit harder to find cleric friends other than faction mates.
A few things from my point of view. For one asking for high level help back in the day when i was doing bh59 was unheard of. It was a squad of pure level 70's and perhaps a level 80 that's leveled from the daily stone or quest grinding (the good old days before FC heads became the right of passage). When the veterans of today played at this level that which we are helping now, the game was vastly different. Power leveling was accomplished from oracles, which are practically unheard of the new players of today. R9 wasn't even around when i was in my 70's yet alone r9rr. I do my bh's on all my toons daily.

Right but this is exactly what i mean. When we played, at level squads were not the exception, they were the rule. You could seek out help because you played with people your own level so you could run into another cleric. That isn't the case anymore. The new player today has a very different experience from what you and I had. At level squads are all but impossible to find. I have had try to form them many times on my alts and finding a full delta is twice as fast as finding an at level BH. And often times, people will claim they have a friend that is at level that wants to come and ask for lead. And then invite some high level to clear it for everyone anyway. Because they are impatient and don't care what you are trying to put together or about the new players you've invited to squad to give them a chance for some at level squad play.

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

Most of the time from the lack of players I end up solo'ing it for my alts on my cleric or veno. Also, the lack of patience to find a squad and lack of teles. b:surrender But on days, I do put a pure squad of only the bh level people when i feel in the mood or have the 5x tele's to do so. As i recall, finding Bh39 squads was pretty simple and yes, those were all lvl 50's Now when was the last time you saw a pure lvl 50 squad do bh39?

Right now imagine you are new player who does not have the luxury of jsut soloing it for your alt. This lack of player problem you run into isn't just an annoyance, it's a constant and you cannot afford to put together any decent amount of at level squads. The last time I was in a pure level 50 squad for BH39 was months ago, but not from lack of trying. The last thing is the exactly the thing i'm trying to highlight. I'm saying this ties into why they would want you heal only. So that they can learn how to do squad stuff with that toon or at all, depending on if they are new or an alt. It makes perfect sense given this total lack of player contact in a multiplayer game, why they would just ask you to heal. It's because as a cleric you are one of the few classes whose help doesn't have to involve soloing it for them.

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

Since, atleast in RT, most of the bh squads now have 5 players who need it, then one 100+ person to solo it. Atleast from where i stand, on my alts on the days where i feel too lazy to duo client my cleric/veno and my alt to do my alt's bh and i join a squad that's premade, i can count on one hand the squads that haven't had a high level in squad to help. Although I have never seen a high level cleric come in squad, other than myself. The ones that do come help aren't seen as support. You don't bother telling the 101 sin not to steal aggro from the barb, so the barb can tank the bh. Its absurd to do so.

A 101 sin is incapable of holding back and playing a supportive role to their efforts. One hit crit will kill the mob. A cleric on the hand, can play pure support to those people if they so choose. And it's rare to get clerics helping in at level things, let alone lowbie things. So in addition to having difficulty getting at levels squads, the number of high levels that actually can assist them in a supportive fashion is smaller than the number of people who cannot. It's not that they are being absurd, but rather they are tryign to take advantage of a help that few classes can give.

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

You can say that I'm ruining the new players by bringing in my high level to solo the bh for them and actually help them unlike many who ignore the wc's for help which i only offer my help when i see them asking for barb, or high level help for more than 5 minutes in hopes that they will find a player their own level to do the bh with them.
And this is exactly what pisses me off. Just because, I'm a cleric and I can heal any bh in the game with my current gear doesn't mean when i go to help a squad in bh59 that I should stand in background and heal them which do not get me wrong, I happily slip an ih to the sin that gets aggro on a mob and let the squad attack it while i move on to more mobs. Also, when my veno comes in the squad to help, not one of them asks for anything but instead the barb gets out of tiger form if there is one, everyone is careful with aggro. Perhaps its just because that I came in as a Cleric that my toon is somehow unable to tank the bosses? I'm not sure.

It isn't about your lack of ability to attack. Everyone knows any high level can clear those smaller instances. It's about the unique opportunity that comes around very rarely that is presented when a cleric joins to help. A barb can't just stand back and heal and let them figure out how to do things on their own. A cleric can. What's a veno going to do? Sit there and look pretty? Defeat the whole purpose of it by tanking any and all damage? Obviously that's absurd. But a cleric CAN play a supportive role and help them learn and play it the way it was meant to be played, or at least close to it. Sure they can't expect those insanely strong heals later on, but you can't get it perfect. And sorry but if they never get to actually play because they cant get squads (even in FF now many people are just soloing it for their alts) then they aren't going to know squad play. It isn't just you, it's the playerbase as a whole. If only you were doing it, this would not be the case. But as a cleric you have a unique opportunity to help people in the way only a cleric can, but are instead taking it as an insult for whatever reason that people don't treat you the same as a sin. Despite the fact it's because you can do things a sin can't possibly do, rather than them thinking it's the other way around.

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think you need to go back to level a few lower level toons and see what exactly Bh's are like today. They are vastly different from ones me and you were use to in the lower levels. Even when I keep quiet, and I do not offer to bring my high level toon in, 99% of the time, a 100+ toon does join and does do all the work for the squad.
If someone does ask for advice, I will happily spend my next few hours of any day of the week, except when I have tw, to sit with them and talk to them all they want but I stopped offering my advice before being asked, since the majority of people now find it insulting when i say anything to them, even when its use IH to heal the tank instead of CHB. Or to just ih the tank on messenager in Fc and only use CHB after the boss aoe's (to save the cleric mana, and also so the lvl 2 chb u have doesn't end up making the barb use 50 crabs during the boss fight).

I have been playing on HT for over a year, having switched servers. I only just now got my BM to 100. Literally 4 days ago. I have experienced PWI as it is experienced by a genuinely new player in that I had no high level help until like level 60 when I finally found a faction. Until then, even asking for a faction got me ignored. My facmates did in fact solo some of my BHs, but I also genuinely tried for a very long time to put together at level squads. I also have much better understanding of things so ofc am better off even still. Like a lot of the ones I meet in squad, aren't in control of it. They cant afford to spend the large amount of coins on teles to make an at level squad, and some of them would get super excited when I would announced it would be an level squad. Some of them were alts who did things like lie to get high levels into the squad. There are many times when I had no choice in that matter because it had been an extremely long time. And nobody else was going to come. At level squads are very difficult to make. So sometimes you end up with no choice but to invite a high level if you at all plan on running the instance. It is very frustrating. During that time I have met many new players who have said they are lonely, or who will drop squad when a high level joins because they didn't actually have the BH, they just wanted to learn to play. Real experience is a precious commodity for lowbies, so we should not be shocked when that lack of experience hurts them at 100.

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

Oh, by the way, since when are people shoved into Fc? My cleric didn't go til 86 and thats only because my friend needed a cleric and after he begged for 10 minutes that I finally went. My alts arent being pushed into doing any Fc's. Im not in an hurry for them to be lvl 100 and be coin sucking drains.
I agree that if you do not have proper gear, you will be treated poorly and not taken into squads. I'm sorry for that, but sadly, its how the game is. We all know PWI is a game of gears and not of skill. I cringe when i see a 101 cleric with a tt90 weapon and a mix of tt80-90 in BHSot. I know cleric's can get by on less, but still there is a point where you have to stop just doing the bear minium for your toon and start the drouling long boring task of farming gear. Its not easily nor is it fun, but if you want to have fun and be able to do things on pwi, you have to do the boring things first. I farmed a whole set of t3 (wih little cs'ing), and am currently farming/cs'ing my way into r9rr gear. I went to a lot of TT's and even more FWS's fo my gear. No it wasn't fun but it is what you need to do if you want play pwi. Sorry to say, but people need to farm more and stop trying to get by on the cheapest things they can find. I know plenty of friends that still haven't spend one cent on this game that have 5 toons all of which have average gear. (3.33 aps sin, full t3 seeker, mystic and so on)

New players haven't started farming yet. You have to start somewhere. I agree there is a limit (i'd kick anyone in tt80 and tell them to go do their morai quests) Anyway, newbies get shoved into FC because at 80+ that is where everyone else is, and questing doesn't cut it anymore. It may not be a big deal if you're 100 and can solo the alts BH. Or if you can break up the monotony of solo grinding with gainful squad play, but if levelling is your only goal because you have nothing. Then that isn't an option to you. Most of the time, that is what their faction mates will pressure them to do. Not to mention that if they want to get to 100 and actually start playing the game that is what they have to do. If you didn't have your high level to do other things, I'm sure you would find that treadmill equally as lonely. The fact that you have to do so much for your alt rather than just play it, should give you an insight to how it is to be a new player without that type of luxury. I've seen many people on the forums say they just want friends, and that those types of threads have increased. I've seen many people say they are coming back after uninstalling the game because they were lonely at low levels. That must mean there are many more that uninstall and never come back. This impacts us too.

That's why I really think that the ability to help new players learn and grow and support them, is an asset to the cleric class. And i know I can't change anyone's mind on it. PWE needs to step up and start making interacting with new players more fun and rewarding. Because not everyone is going to want to do that. And in fact the majority won't think that way. I just wish more people did because I think the new player hostility that is coded into the game, and present in large portions of the playerbase, isn't good for the longevity of the game nor very pleasant for new players to have to deal with. TBH, rerolling almost made me quit and I like this game. I would have had I not found my faction when I did.

freygin

Clerics. What pisses you guys off or annoys you when your in a squad?

What's irritating me the most is when everyone asks for buffs but they're scattered around, happens mostly in pvp. They should approach the cleric in squad and be in range before asking for buff.

Also when in pvp, the squad doesn't bother protecting the cleric but asking the cleric for support, they should help attacking or disabling whoever attacks the cleric so we can continue doing our job to support, they should be able to tank their attacker if the cleric is free, so the cleric can heal them and not too busy keeping himself alive.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

@Venus and Christona.

I do agree with both of you, and both of you do make valid points.

Clerics are the only class aside from mystics that can really play a true support role and not completely change the dynamics of a lower level bh. That being said, often the high leveled cleric that is helping in that instance does not want to stand back for legnthy amounts of time, and spam heals, Wings of protection, buffs, etc...when they are able to do it better themselves. It almost defeats the purpose of them being endgame level when they do.

Personally, like Christona...when I join any instance lower than BH69, I am the tank. I do take the time to explain the dynamics of the players class, and if they want to try to do things normal at times, I do let them. However, in instances like that, its not a tank that they should be looking for...but an at level cleric. I usually ignore the bh's the first time. The reason being is so that I can give the players that actually need that bh the opportunity to join it, and to learn from it. Often, when I join, it is to aid players that have been wc'ing for a while to find a tank. In instances like that, I feel that it is better for me to join as a high leveled cleric than for them to become more frustrated with the game, and the lack of help. If a player needs help or advice in their class, I will tell them to the best of my ability...often introducing them to good friends of mines who excel in their own class, so that they can gain more insight.

I don't really have anything against letting them tank if they chose to, but in instances like that, I'd prefer that they look for an at level cleric. its not fair to the high leveled cleric that they be delegated to the position of healer when it is also simultaneously one of the few times that a cleric is actually able to flex its muscles and attack.

Either way, its kind of a double edged sword...with no true clean cut way to go about it. Endgame players don't necessarily want to join a lower leveled bh squad and heal where they've healed a thousand times before, now that they're finally able to tank/solo it...UNLESS they have the time to do so. When we do tank it, we also nerf the knowledge and experience (not leveling-wise) that players would gain if they were able to do it at level. However, if we don't even offer...those players might not even get that much help that we would have given them, and quit playing out of frustration, OR Try to level up quickly so that they can get a squad....resulting in a mass amount of fc babies.

Sadly, the way that things are now, at level squads are not the norm. Having an endgame player go in and tank it is. However, even in that, there is still knowledge gained. Not necessarily the best knowledge, but some knowledge is better than no knowledge. When I join, it is not uncommon for this old cleric to take protege's under my wings afterwards, and I do acknowledge the multitude of questions that a new player, or a player that is new to the class may ask. Its one of the few ways that they're going to learn with everyone being level 100+ nowadays. I encourage players to go out, and try to run instances on their own. However, if they don't....often clerics gain enough knowledge of each class to at least give the player some run down of things that they should be doing in instances....especially in terms of aggro management, heals, tanking, heal aggro, etc. I actually demonstrate it during the runs when I'm tanking by going to healing mode during some of the runs, and healing the "tank", but intentionally gaining heal aggro so that the DD's, and tanks can get used to chaotic situations and being able to save this cleric that is about to die. A failed save often results in me saving it, and potentially sage reviving anyone that dying during the experiment. Often this teaches DD's to manage aggro....tanks to look out for aggro lose, and clerics to know what heals to use. In terms of clerics, I also show them what happens when you use the wrong heals in the wrong situations. Many that run with me and begin healing me with level 5 purehearted blessing, often end up spamming me with Ironheart Blessing afterwards once I show its importance and superiority...even if its level 1, and they make every attempt to level it immediately thereafter.

That said, even when a high leveled player tanks it, I feel that they should still try to make it a learning experience for at leveled players, while not going at such a pace that the high leveled player feels bored or frustrated. I feel that that (And this alters from person to person), we should try to find a middle ground to teach lower leveled players, but not go at such a pace where it feels tedious. Sometimes that endgame cleric showing how powerful a cleric can get can motivate another player to look more into their cleric.

And since this is the thread, and getting back on point... I hate when I help lower leveled players and they look at me and say something along the lines of U R CLERIC!!! YOU NOT TANK!!! DON'T MATTER IF YOU'RE 101. U R STILL HEALER. I TANK. YOU HEAL!! This will result in me dropping squad or, and depending on the instance....

*BH39: I'll pull whole halls, and decimate everything before you have a chance to touch it.

*BH51: I'll steal aggro on everything, and the only reason that I won't steal aggro on Rankar and Wyvern is that their AOE can damage the innocent members of the squad.

*BH59: I'll outaggro you brutally....on everything you attack. Even going as far as to assist attack and destroy every mob/boss you touch.

That said, I hate disrespect...and I have a real temper when it comes to the rude...especially if I'm helping you.

Sorry for the essay, and sorry if its a bit confusing. Thoughts are all about. Lol.

lorshe

I don't mind being instructed what to do, where to go, heal from this spot or just do this, a cleric is a support class anyways. When I go with a squad and I'm the only cleric, my main objective is to keep the tank alive. I hate those squishy ones stealing aggro and I get distracted healing them instead. When the squishy runs I have to run after him or else he dies and I get blamed for his death. Then I get the "res me pls" while the tank's life gets drained away.
I hate stupid tanks (those who don't know what to do with the boss or how to kill the boss).
I hate squishy tanks (those who, no matter how you heal & heal, they end up dying anyways).
i hate a squad who does not have cohesion & everyone does what he wants and I end up running after everybody who wants to be heroic/showoff/doing something else instead of protecting me from dying/aggro-ing something which causes confusion & distracts me from what I'm suppose to do, and that is, keeping everyone alive.

Lisalexia - Archosaur

When the squad splits up and runs into bunches of mobs.

People yelling to resurrect them. I always resurrect as soon as I get the chance.

I remember once doing fc and lvl 80ish sin was blaming me for failing to keep him alive even though he had level 60 gear and there was just no way he could tank f:angry

boredgamer9000

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

So before people judge and get angry they should maybe think that the person make effort to try to communicate in english and beside insult them, laught at them or rage at them maybe tell them how to type it correctly.

I was ingame and a hispanic player said "jajajajaja" Anouther player called him dumb. I then explained to him that he was a complete idiot, and that the guy was hispanic and to him a j was pronounced as an h. The best part is that i failed spanish miserably in highschool and still knew that simple fact. This shows how ignorant most of my own country is to foriegn languages.

People who expect a res for running into a large group of mobs clearly to powerful for them. Skrew that, i'm cold, no res.

People who expect buffs, but won'y stay still for them.
Skrew that, no buffs.

Neferhotep - Lost City

- When i look at my clerics max HP and see its like 1/6 of my seekers HP whos the same lvl with same refines.

- When i cant buff people at the start of the dungeon because the first that entered told me to buff them, then are rushing and killing the mobs and the unbuffed people dont want to fall behind, rush after them and die. (Usually when there is a good sin or archer in there or in any squad where high-geared people are helping). Also, this makes it impossible to use my squad buffs what means ill be pissed off the whole run. Beware.

-When im in a squad with a mystic and he or she keeps buffing the tank but not me. Usually happens when im on my female cleric. Even worser if he or she decides to be the main healer for the tank ... without telling me.

- When im in a squad with a mystic and she ( met female mysts like that only) doesnt even think of be 2nd healer, typically rushes in right after the tank, using gale force, creating a huge mess and has like 5 charm ticks and not healing herself or anyone once.

- And this goes for everyone and especially for mysts: "Dont heal me ^^" and then dies.
Another way to **** me off for the whole run.

- When some people died (for example at runewolf in FC) and telling me to res them before i ressed the tank. I res people in the order of their importance, and the tank always comes first. Also, why do people think a cleric would forget to res? I think when 3 of six people are dead, even the biggest ****** would notice and stop to res.

- When Psys calling me OP because i sit im BB and tank the mobs the barb failed to while the psy was 2 hits because of BV.

Mysticgoldy - Morai

i like to be a cleric i buff every one that needs it if i stand some were i give buffs to people that go to bh and fb runs i help people out in squads offer mine self op for other people that almosed died so they stay alive i dont care if i die i love to help and to save people one time in tt i got 8 mobs on me so the faction members and other people can walk to next part of the tt room i died then but saved the other ones to go in side i did it from the start that i begon pw saving other and we had much fun and joking around b:chuckle i like to be a cleric

Evryn - Morai

Main peeve while playing a cleric? Idiot seekers that try a pull, don't clear all, don't move -back- to the cleric but simply try to set up vortex when their health is at half, then die and whine for a res when there's 50 or so mobs between me and their cold or crispy remains.

Second most: People who start random attacks, don't grab aggro on everything that attacks and then complain I do not heal. Aggrolock all you've taken on, or heals happen at the last mob in the group that's miffed at you. Note: Smart group play often resolves this by having another character take on the excess aggro so I can heal. Would rather be healing more then one player, then risking heal aggro and end up having to heal myself.

Third most: "Buffs plz" *then holypaths away towards the nearest mob*. I usually respond "Then get back here and stand still dammit." Same with BHs - Impatient folk who don't wait for the party to form at the front of the BH so group buffs can be done to all. Rebuffing those lateron has lowest priority for me.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Quite a long time ago I was in a BH Seat. People were all over the place so group buffing wasn't an option thus I threw the most important buffs (physical/magical defence, magic attack to casters). I got complaints that they are not "fully buffed" but I said "you have the most important ones, will rebuff at the boss" but they kept complaining.
..yeah that 2HP regen in combat is so useful.

Things like these make me realise that a lot of people are ignorant on what Cleric buffs really do. Maybe one day I'll have a BM complaining he's not fully buffed because he's lacking the magic attack one.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Quite a long time ago I was in a BH Seat. People were all over the place so group buffing wasn't an option thus I threw the most important buffs (physical/magical defence, magic attack to casters). I got complaints that they are not "fully buffed" but I said "you have the most important ones, will rebuff at the boss" but they kept complaining.
..yeah that 2HP regen in combat is so useful.

Things like these make me realise that a lot of people are ignorant on what Cleric buffs really do. Maybe one day I'll have a BM complaining he's not fully buffed because he's lacking the magic attack one.

What!? You don't give bms magic attack boost? Your just being stingy.

Kidding aside.

I do have a cleric alt, that I don't play much.

One thing that does annoy me though is those who **** about exp loss (hell even clerics do it... and they do arguably have the most 'right' to **** about it) still... I do find it annoying when people make a big deal about exp loss just once. There is so many ways to regain exp these days.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What!? You don't give bms magic attack boost? Your just being stingy.

Kidding aside.

I do have a cleric alt, that I don't play much.

One thing that does annoy me though is those who **** about exp loss (hell even clerics do it... and they do arguably have the most 'right' to **** about it) still... I do find it annoying when people make a big deal about exp loss just once. There is so many ways to regain exp these days.

That used to make me roll my eyes so much lol...considering Clerics either had to carry GS with them or just suck it up and lose their EXP. Ancestor's Blessing was a well deserved skill!

wishershearts

Cleric's are good, they are squishy and die alot but they do help revive people that dont have res balls. Cleric's can lose a bit of exp when they die, and some people that play cleric just need a little bit of training somethings

Satyrion - Sanctuary

I wasn't on my cleric but...
In a half-random EU squad the BM kept complaining about not being fully buffed for quite some minutes... Finally the cleric tell him that he IS buffed. No no, that wasn't his issue - he was missing archer buff...
*uses will of the bodhisattva*
Good job BM you just lost OP evasion and speed buff again >_>

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Satyrion - Sanctuary wrote: »

Finally the cleric tell him that he IS buffed. No no, that wasn't his issue - he was missing archer buff...
*uses will of the bodhisattva*
Good job BM you just lost OP evasion and speed buff again >_>

I notice the slight sarcasm with the 'OP' section there. b:scorn

We are quite sensitive to how no one really wants our buff, we have feelings too you know. b:sad

Though it is actually quite an OP buff for us anyway, plenty of BM's barbs seem to complain about it.

Also an interesting point may or may not be common knowledge, but Blessing of the Condor which boosts our evasion by 1000% is actually based on your current evasion at the time, not base evasion without the normal evasion buff, i.e. my evasion can be boosted to 88k or 55k based on whether I had evasion buff up at the time or not. b:dirty

However our other self buff (fire damage) is the most annoying ever, as rebuffing doesn't actually reset the 15min buff duration so it will run out 15mins after the 1st time you buffed no matter what, and always seems to run out just before a psychic uses psychic will so my stun doesn't stun b:angry

Good day.

Yuuniee - Dreamweaver

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Main peeve while playing a cleric? Idiot seekers that try a pull, don't clear all, don't move -back- to the cleric but simply try to set up vortex when their health is at half, then die and whine for a res when there's 50 or so mobs between me and their cold or crispy remains.

Seeker can't endures long like barb does nor can they run fast like barb. Once they reach the end of the path, they have to set up vortex to kill all the mobs or the mobs will kill them. If the mobs are draining their hp, they have to set up vortex immediately to absorb some hp when they have bp buff. If they don't have bp buff on, they heavily rely on you as a cleric to save them. They'll eventually end up in a position where either they kill the mobs or the mobs kill them. As cleric, you're supposed to catch up to the puller or whoever needs support. Pulling forward and backward are wasting time and risky.

Second most: People who start random attacks, don't grab aggro on everything that attacks and then complain I do not heal. Aggrolock all you've taken on, or heals happen at the last mob in the group that's miffed at you. Note: Smart group play often resolves this by having another character take on the excess aggro so I can heal. Would rather be healing more then one player, then risking heal aggro and end up having to heal myself.

I assume this was in a single group of mobs. No need to repeat this again, as cleric, you do your best to save your squadies no matter what position they got themselves into and they should save you in return. For this, you have to act according to the situation. If the group of mobs deal magic damage in distance, cleric shouldn't be afraid of the heal aggro. Even if cleric gets aggro, cleric has very high resistance, allowing the cleric to have a lot of time to heal themselves before getting killed. If it's a group of mobs that deals physical damage only, after saving your squad from dying with healing surge, save yourself by healing and putting up defense skill like plume shell, kite the mobs around the DDs. You save them, they should save you in return. Because people want to get the run done in minimum amount of time. They don't want to sit back like you just watching them die.

Third most: "Buffs plz" *then holypaths away towards the nearest mob*. I usually respond "Then get back here and stand still dammit." Same with BHs - Impatient folk who don't wait for the party to form at the front of the BH so group buffs can be done to all. Rebuffing those lateron has lowest priority for me.

Same as previous paragraphs. Catch up to them, provide whatever supports they need. Use individual buffs. If you're think that they're impatient, on the contrary, they can think you're just a slacker and not performing what a cleric should

Replies are in red
In my point of view, you're just like another "Do this, I won't heal you" Cleric.
If we were in the same squad once, I wouldn't want to be in the same squad with you again. I want someone who can greatly contribute to the squad. Not someone who sits back judging who's doing the right or wrong things. As cleric, sometime, you have to take risk and make sacrifice for the betterment of the squad.
I understand everyone has different play style. One thing I do admit of you is your cautious play and your thought of synergy, as well as not over extending yourself into a vulnerable position.

This is coming from a cleric who plays a cleric and sin.
I feel like this would offend a lot of people. Sorry to whoever feels offended reading my reply.

Satyrion - Sanctuary

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I notice the slight sarcasm with the 'OP' section there. b:scorn

We are quite sensitive to how no one really wants our buff, we have feelings too you know. b:sad

Though it is actually quite an OP buff for us anyway, plenty of BM's barbs seem to complain about it.

Also an interesting point may or may not be common knowledge, but Blessing of the Condor which boosts our evasion by 1000% is actually based on your current evasion at the time, not base evasion without the normal evasion buff, i.e. my evasion can be boosted to 88k or 55k based on whether I had evasion buff up at the time or not. b:dirty

However our other self buff (fire damage) is the most annoying ever, as rebuffing doesn't actually reset the 15min buff duration so it will run out 15mins after the 1st time you buffed no matter what, and always seems to run out just before a psychic uses psychic will so my stun doesn't stun b:angry

Good day.

Sorry for that lol its not like I believe its a useless buff or anything when it comes to pvp... However in a pve instance like EU i wouldnt really bother it, especially not on a bm because i would just overbuff it anyways - just like he did after finally get it.

On my archer I like the buff and prefer stay buffed with it. As I plan switch to sage soon a friend told me to use windshield to keep up for the missing aps but somehow I dont feel like it because it rebuff the evasion buff as well o.o and other reasons...
But lets see when I switch xD

Sir_comsizer - Archosaur

It REALLY get's my goat when i ask if people are ready & get no reply. Then when i start, they all shout 'Hey, i aint ready'

If you want to chat to your friends, great, just don't do it while in a BH/FC run b:sad

boredgamer9000

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Things like these make me realise that a lot of people are ignorant on what Cleric buffs really do. Maybe one day I'll have a BM complaining he's not fully buffed because he's lacking the magic attack one.

had it happen... a total of 7 times......

Yuuniee - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Same as previous paragraphs. Catch up to them, provide whatever supports they need. Use individual buffs. If you're think that they're impatient, on the contrary, they can think you're just a slacker and not performing what a cleric should

Replies are in red
In my point of view, you're just like another "Do this, I won't heal you" Cleric.
If we were in the same squad once, I wouldn't want to be in the same squad with you again. I want someone who can greatly contribute to the squad. Not someone who sits back judging who's doing the right or wrong things. As cleric, sometime, you have to take risk and make sacrifice for the betterment of the squad.
I understand everyone has different play style. One thing I do admit of you is your cautious play and your thought of synergy, as well as not over extending yourself into a vulnerable position.

This is coming from a cleric who plays a cleric and sin.
I feel like this would offend a lot of people. Sorry to whoever feels offended reading my reply.

Asmuch as a cleric should be flexible, some things are just stupid. asking for buffs, but not gathering around for them is blatently idiotic.

and yes, there's holy path, and i personally use apoth speed increase items, but if someone just runs to far ahead while the rest of the squad is in need of heals, oops, he's dead, and if i get a chat box spam of res me while i'm tryin ta heal the rest of the squad, right after i thoughtfully res him, that dude is gettin kicked. cause i don't play that.

clerics are not the class of rolling over and being pestered by noobs without biting back alil bit. if you do this, you're not helping the problem, you're just making it worse by allowing the stupidity to happen.

so, good thing we're on different servers, cause ya wouldn't want to squad with me either, cause if ya run away from the squad, don't get buffed, and bite off more than you can chew, regardless of the skill level of the cleric, yer gonna have a bad time...

Yuuniee - Dreamweaver

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Main peeve while playing a cleric? Idiot seekers that try a pull, don't clear all, don't move -back- to the cleric but simply try to set up vortex when their health is at half, then die and whine for a res when there's 50 or so mobs between me and their cold or crispy remains.

Second most: People who start random attacks, don't grab aggro on everything that attacks and then complain I do not heal. Aggrolock all you've taken on, or heals happen at the last mob in the group that's miffed at you. Note: Smart group play often resolves this by having another character take on the excess aggro so I can heal. Would rather be healing more then one player, then risking heal aggro and end up having to heal myself.

Third most: "Buffs plz" *then holypaths away towards the nearest mob*. I usually respond "Then get back here and stand still dammit." Same with BHs - Impatient folk who don't wait for the party to form at the front of the BH so group buffs can be done to all. Rebuffing those lateron has lowest priority for me.

boredgamer9000 wrote: »

had it happen... a total of 7 times......



Asmuch as a cleric should be flexible, some things are just stupid. asking for buffs, but not gathering around for them is blatently idiotic.

and yes, there's holy path, and i personally use apoth speed increase items, but if someone just runs to far ahead while the rest of the squad is in need of heals, oops, he's dead, and if i get a chat box spam of res me while i'm tryin ta heal the rest of the squad, right after i thoughtfully res him, that dude is gettin kicked. cause i don't play that.

clerics are not the class of rolling over and being pestered by noobs without biting back alil bit. if you do this, you're not helping the problem, you're just making it worse by allowing the stupidity to happen.

so, good thing we're on different servers, cause ya wouldn't want to squad with me either, cause if ya run away from the squad, don't get buffed, and bite off more than you can chew, regardless of the skill level of the cleric, yer gonna have a bad time...

Read carefully, he said at the beginning of the run, he was just waiting there for doing nothing until everyone is there so he can use squad buffs. He could've buffed them one by one if needed. And of course saving majority of the squads is more important than just trying to save just one. But if the rest of the squads haven't arrived yet, shouldn't he just use individual buffs and try to save person who was endanger themselves to clear some of the paths for the whole squad. You should be grateful for those individuals that willing to take risk of trying to get the run done faster. Sit at the starting point all you want, not everyone will enter the instance at the same time. And if one person isn't going to wait, I doubt the rest of the squad will wait. So sit there all you want, and say "get back here for buffs".