Severity of Punishments

Ois - Lost City

b:laugh Bwahaha

Brillance - Raging Tide

Ois - Lost City wrote: »

Okay let me dumb it down for you.

Perfect world needs to choose one of the below:

Allow glitching + glitching = not ban

Don't allow glitching + glitching = ban

Please note: It's only because you say so that they have to do that. There is nothing written in stone anywhere that says they HAVE to do that.

You are making a demand that has nothing to do with any rule as written. Its an ultimatum almost. You demand punishment be released swiftly, or not be given at all. Okay, you know...*shrugs*

Dumb it down somemore for yourself now. Bwhahaha. b:laugh

P.S. Im sure somewhere in the Agreement we all made when starting to play this game, just like every other MMO, we agreed they had the right to do what they want with their game - including our characters.

Dragoneast - Sanctuary

is it possible to have a not allowed look on ure character without editing ure ini files?

Denaini - Sanctuary

@ Frankyraie:

1) The ini. edits. You stated that you actually do not want to punish those 'offenders', but are forced to do so by your own Terms of Service. However, let me quote a line from the ToS:

2. Changes to terms

PWE may amend these Terms, the Rules of Conduct, and any EULA at any time in our sole discretion.

So why not just add a line that allows editing of the .ini files, as long as it changes nothing but the appearance of a character ?

2) The 'Goon Glitch'. I agree with you that the issue has been handled badly. But while the damage that has been done cannot be undone completely, it is possible to lessen its impact.
Basically, you have three options:

A) Ban the known offenders, and put an effort into finding the other offenders. On a side note, I find it strange that you know for a fact that the offenders you 'caught' are not the worst offenders - but don't know who those other offenders are. Also, every MMO has log files. Yes, it would require quite a lot of work to extract the relevant data, but it is there, and a big issue justifies elaborate reaction. This thread http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1344591 , with currently more than 96,000 views and 1,700 replies, should make it obvious that there is a good part of the player base that does not regard this issue as being resolved.
Obviously, this option also has many disadvantages, such as a reduction of the player base (which shrunk by quite a lot already), and thereby also significantly reducing PWE's income.

Continue to do nothing and make promises to the players which you cannot fulfill.
This option certainly isn't very good either.

C) Revert the exp of the Dragoons back to normal, and allow the use of the 'goon glitch'. This helps repair the damage done by giving the upright players the opportunity to catch up with the offenders. It also makes the 'second half' of the FCC viable again. And, in the long run, it will allow you to introduce higher level content if you so wish without actually rewarding the offenders even further.

Please think about it. I would not like this game to fall apart even further.

shopitup

Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »

is it possible to have a not allowed look on ure character without editing ure ini files?

If a GM is PMSing hard enough, they'll just say your look isn't possible without INI editing and ban you. What're you gonna do, fraps a video of you creating that exact look using the in-game tools only? And even if you do, think they're gonna get any reprimand for banning you?

Edit: the terms of service make it fairly clear that they reserve the right to permaban you at any time, for any reason or no reason at all. (Section 10, last paragraph; section 19, first sentence.) The list of things you're not allowed to do are examples of things they don't like; nowhere in that document do they limit themselves to banning you for ONLY the listed reasons. Which means we, the players, are basically at the mercy of PWE's internal corporate culture, regarding the sorts of things they encourage or discourage their GMs to do, and allow / not allow their GMs to get away with. Us nitpicking the text of the TOS is a hiding to nothing. If we want to be saying anything pertinent we should start talking about how PWE employees view us and how they do or don't get away with treating us, that is, we should be talking about their corporate culture and attitude.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

If people bothered spending the effort they do on complaining about something as they did on leveling... they'd be pretty damn close to 105 by now. I did it, if you really wanted it you could too.

TL ; DR all those pages mostly skimmed.

you can submit a ticket in and get your character back to legal format and the ban will be lifted if you read the GM's reply.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well, alegedly the ini thingy is just a matter of sending in a ticket to get unbanned, so that's really not a big deal. Although I agree e-mails should be sent out informing a player of that, lol.

I can honestly see why PWI doesnt want people playing around in their files. I mean ini, and then what? What else can I manipulate in my files?

But, if other servers are free to do it, all should be free to do it. In the end, if you want EG eyes, just roll a EG char, and wala - you have EG eyes. But, I dont see it being fair for certain groups of players to do, and others be banned for it.

(Nice segway back on topic, btw.)

Also, we're making a policy change - Any player found to be using in-game chat to find or organize an FC glitch group will have his account suspended. This of course includes World Chat.

There is nothing subjective about that. This says is in no uncertain terms you WILL be banned. Even looking for a glitching results in a ban. That is what it is saying. Because PWI said you WILL be banned many, many people who listened to Frankie did not participate. They got screwed over because it was a lie. Even the company admits that they SHOULD have been banned. And that they WANTED to ban them. The only reason they DID NOT was because of mismanagement and failure to properly monitor the situation. They would not have needed tools if they had monitored world chat and banned the first offenders right away. Heck, it wouldn't have even needed to be a permaban for most people then because you didn't get 105 from a single run. They could have just banned them for the duration of the glitch. It's like a thief who gets away because the police didn't properly handle the evidence. People have every right to be upset about it.


And you aren't playing around in their files to ini edit. The original version made those ini files specifically so that they could be modified and have always allowed people to do so. It doesn't require any modification of the files used to make PWI work. Copying and pasting a file there isn't any different than copying and pasting a picture into there. They allow you to use reference pictures and put a picture in there but not a notepad file. It's a double standard and a weird one that is only enforced on people who use the east and west coast North American time servers. It isn't even a PWI rule anymore, since you can modify the files all you want so long as you click European server.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

ini is bannable. Okay, and a thread that told you how to ini edit was closed. Wouldn't that flag that people might already have gone beyond the simple ini edit?

That thread did not tell you how to ini edit. And the reason the thread was not closed is because it violated no known rules at the time of creation. Instead people have been asked to remove the codes at their earliest possible convenience. And to post using sliders if they still want people to use the created characters.

karmelia

Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »

is it possible to have a not allowed look on ure character without editing ure ini files?

Yes.

I have a red haired veno of a color you cannot get in the char creation screen, and I never edited my ini files.

It was available in the preset files of the game for a time. I think they removed it since.

karmelia

Denaini - Sanctuary wrote: »

.
Continue to do nothing and make promises to the players which you cannot fulfill.
This option certainly isn't very good either.

This is the option they choose.

Ois - Lost City

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Please note: It's only because you say so that they have to do that. There is nothing written in stone anywhere that says they HAVE to do that.

You are making a demand that has nothing to do with any rule as written. Its an ultimatum almost. You demand punishment be released swiftly, or not be given at all. Okay, you know...*shrugs*

Dumb it down somemore for yourself now. Bwhahaha. b:laugh

P.S. Im sure somewhere in the Agreement we all made when starting to play this game, just like every other MMO, we agreed they had the right to do what they want with their game - including our characters.

Now you're just being a stubborn jackass.

As for your stupid littering and spitting comparisons? Go spit on a cop or throw trash at a cop and see what happens. When you know something is illegal...and you do it anyways...in a manner where authorities know it was you that did it...you will get in trouble.

Ois - Lost City

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Please note: It's only because you say so that they have to do that. There is nothing written in stone anywhere that says they HAVE to do that.

You are making a demand that has nothing to do with any rule as written. Its an ultimatum almost. You demand punishment be released swiftly, or not be given at all. Okay, you know...*shrugs*

Dumb it down somemore for yourself now. Bwhahaha. b:laugh

P.S. Im sure somewhere in the Agreement we all made when starting to play this game, just like every other MMO, we agreed they had the right to do what they want with their game - including our characters.

Dumb it down for myself? If I have to dumb something down for myself that I already understand..."smarted up"...seriously are you like 12 years old? lol

And if you had read anything that I wrote you'd understand that what I'm arguing is this...

Glitching not allowed + glitching = ban =/= glitching + not ban = glitching not allowed

As it stands PW has claimed it was against the rules and players would be severely punished. However as it stands PW has not punished anyone or done anything to prove that it was against the rules aside from empty statements.

I'm done replying. Next time I want to talk to an idiot I'll call PW support.

Flutterpie - Lothranis

Ois - Lost City wrote: »

Dumb it down for myself? If I have to dumb something down for myself that I already understand..."smarted up"...seriously are you like 12 years old? lol

And if you had read anything that I wrote you'd understand that what I'm arguing is this...

Glitching not allowed + glitching = ban =/= glitching + not ban = glitching not allowed

As it stands PW has claimed it was against the rules and players would be severely punished. However as it stands PW has not punished anyone or done anything to prove that it was against the rules aside from empty statements.

I'm done replying. Next time I want to talk to an idiot I'll call PW support.

if PWE wanted to stop goons they could have had an emergency patch the first week (like they had for r8r soulsphere exploit).

if that was outside their ability they could have had GMs actively pop into instances and ban people in the act (would be pretty easy).

instead they released Charm Sales followed by a Hyper Sale followed by a Rank Sale!!!!!!!!!!!

PWE FULLY SUPPORTED GOONS AND ALL OTHER FORMS OF POWERLEVELING FROM THE START

Frankie just lied about that part about it being against the rules just like how he lied about +11/+12 orbs causing client instability...

he's made lots of lies so it should have been expected!

after it was widely popular for months it would be stupid to go back and claim its bannable a year later.. what a joke

Bubbles - Morai

Flutterpie - Lothranis wrote: »

if PWE wanted to stop goons they could have had an emergency patch the first week (like they had for r8r soulsphere exploit).

if that was outside their ability they could have had GMs actively pop into instances and ban people in the act (would be pretty easy).

instead they released Charm Sales followed by a Hyper Sale followed by a Rank Sale!!!!!!!!!!!

PWE FULLY SUPPORTED GOONS AND ALL OTHER FORMS OF POWERLEVELING FROM THE START

Frankie just lied about that part about it being against the rules just like how he lied about +11/+12 orbs causing client instability...

he's made lots of lies so it should have been expected!

after it was widely popular for months it would be stupid to go back and claim its bannable a year later.. what a joke

Lies...Lies... Where I have I heard about someone who blatantly lied like that...

Oh. This guy.

ponyduck

Flutterpie - Lothranis wrote: »

if PWE wanted to stop goons they could have had an emergency patch the first week (like they had for r8r soulsphere exploit).

if that was outside their ability they could have had GMs actively pop into instances and ban people in the act (would be pretty easy).

instead they released Charm Sales followed by a Hyper Sale followed by a Rank Sale!!!!!!!!!!!

PWE FULLY SUPPORTED GOONS AND ALL OTHER FORMS OF POWERLEVELING FROM THE START

Frankie just lied about that part about it being against the rules just like how he lied about +11/+12 orbs causing client instability...

he's made lots of lies so it should have been expected!

after it was widely popular for months it would be stupid to go back and claim its bannable a year later.. what a joke

This is EXACTLY what I've thought all along. EXACTLY!!!

I never bought the idea that they were trying to fix it--AND IT TOOK THEM 4 MONTHS?!!

Nope--that don't fly. They made a killing on the whole thing, no doubt about it.

_RockHard_ - Lost City

honestly I wasn't at all surpised by the whole goon glitching thing and it was more of a two day ban cause the amount of tickets spammed to pw's inbox honestly things like that should be a character reset or a perma ban reguardless of any circumstances or reasons you can find to throw at it to hold your case as to why you should be able to abuse a broken game mechanic.

It doesn't matter anymore anyways and I know how long it takes to reach 105 I honestly don't think any player other than maybe 10 across all servers may have reached it legitely I've played this game long enough to know when not to step in the bull poo of others when they run their mouth's.

Anyways again READ THE TOS take it and have it notorized and explained to you so that you actually understand all the legalitie's of it i don't care unless someone from pwi officially anounces that your allowed to do something that you may even think to be questionable just don't do it.

Don't like the rules gtfo go play a private server and **** with stuff your not allowed to here b:bye

Bubbles - Morai

ponyduck wrote: »

This is EXACTLY what I've thought all along. EXACTLY!!!

I never bought the idea that they were trying to fix it--AND IT TOOK THEM 4 MONTHS?!!

Nope--that don't fly. They made a killing on the whole thing, no doubt about it.

Fyi they didn't fix it, just simply lowered exp to a point where it's useless.
That edit would've taken 5 minutes at most to do.

shopitup

Bubbles - Lothranis wrote: »

Fyi they didn't fix it, just simply lowered exp to a point where it's useless.
That edit would've taken 5 minutes at most to do.

Plus it's a clumsy, stupid way to fix it.

FC has the same mob (glacix dragoon) in a bunch of other places too, where they aren't spawned by any glitch. The "fix" they used nerfed their XP, too.

The not-so-clumsy, not-entirely-stupid fix would have involved cloning the mob (making a dragoon-prime) and changing the cloned version to give no XP. Then changing the glitched boss (styren) to spawn dragoon-prime, but leave the other dragoons in the instance as they were. Note how the database has two copies of harpy wraith already, with only one of them being the target mob for one infamous quest; clonings-with-differences are clearly possible.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

shopitup wrote: »

Plus it's a clumsy, stupid way to fix it.

FC has the same mob (glacix dragoon) in a bunch of other places too, where they aren't spawned by any glitch. The "fix" they used nerfed their XP, too.

The not-so-clumsy, not-entirely-stupid fix would have involved cloning the mob (making a dragoon-prime) and changing the cloned version to give no XP. Then changing the glitched boss (styren) to spawn dragoon-prime, but leave the other dragoons in the instance as they were. Note how the database has two copies of harpy wraith already, with only one of them being the target mob for one infamous quest; clonings-with-differences are clearly possible.

They should've just stopped it from spawning goons. There is no reason to remove the bosses' exp from it. Just make a duplicate that doesn't spawn goons. Or make a duplicate of the goon that gives the old amount of exp and put in areas that had nothing to do with the glitch.

Bubbles - Morai

shopitup wrote: »

Plus it's a clumsy, stupid way to fix it.

FC has the same mob (glacix dragoon) in a bunch of other places too, where they aren't spawned by any glitch. The "fix" they used nerfed their XP, too.

The not-so-clumsy, not-entirely-stupid fix would have involved cloning the mob (making a dragoon-prime) and changing the cloned version to give no XP. Then changing the glitched boss (styren) to spawn dragoon-prime, but leave the other dragoons in the instance as they were. Note how the database has two copies of harpy wraith already, with only one of them being the target mob for one infamous quest; clonings-with-differences are clearly possible.

The problem with that is that it would make too much sense...

Fixing the glitch? Too much work.
Making the boss spawn a different id of mobs? Too much work.
Reducing the exp of the mob? Sounds great! Give us half a year to work on it.

Labells - Dreamweaver

why does every thread seem to lead back to people crying over goons glitch

Do this

seriously people it's been & gone.... draw a line under the whole episode and move along - for good or bad PWI has dealt & undealt with it - it's not getting any better - if you are unable to cope with this concept go QQ to your therapist.

Ois - Lost City

Labells - Dreamweaver wrote: »

why does every thread seem to lead back to people crying over goons glitch

Do this

seriously people it's been & gone.... draw a line under the whole episode and move along - for good or bad PWI has dealt & undealt with it - it's not getting any better - if you are unable to cope with this concept go QQ to your therapist.

You don't know! YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!!!!!!!!! b:cryb:cryb:angryb:angry

resnov098

lol yea idk why they want it back knowing its definitelly not gonna happen, it's illegal in the game any way u look at it, pwi won't allow that never lol its ridiculous to fight about it

Nymphali - Dreamweaver

frankieraye wrote: »

I agree with you, changing an eye color is not damaging to the game in any way, and it's unfortunate that so many Customer Service hours are spent on enforcing the rule in this way. The thing is, the rule exists because such changes are covered in the whole "You're not allowed to modify any game files" rule. There have been exploits in the past that involved editing other client-side game files, so that's why the rule exists in the first place, and unfortunately purely cosmetic changes fall under it as well. Another part of it is the possibility that modifying certain game files will keep you from being able to log in to the game.

Honestly, we'd love to allow the harmless cosmetic .ini changes, since it would one allow our GM team to focus on far more important issues like **** accounts etc, and two it would let players achieve higher levels of customization to their own characters, which they obviously are interested in doing. Doing so, though, would require a re-wording of that "modifying game files" rule, along with further clarification into its various shades of grey. Still it's definitely something that's being looked at right now.

Frankie, When I click "Save" to save a character appearance into hard disk, that saved file is not a "Game-System File" That's a User file, its MY file, MY version of MY character. Altering this file won't make the game unacessible nor will grant me unfair advantage over our fellow players. b:shutup

So you saying that when you open a text editor and save an .doc file thats a file of the Text editor not yours?

ponyduck

Labells - Dreamweaver wrote: »

why does every thread seem to lead back to people crying over goons glitch

Do this

seriously people it's been & gone.... draw a line under the whole episode and move along - for good or bad PWI has dealt & undealt with it - it's not getting any better - if you are unable to cope with this concept go QQ to your therapist.

If I were a member of PWE management, I would be wondering why this topic
just doesn't seem to die. Perhaps it's indicative of the impact the whole episode
had on the game & its players? Most businesses tend to notice this level of
discontent among their clientele, and earnestly try to resolve it.

And, btw, this IS my therapy. b:chuckle

Ois - Lost City

ponyduck wrote: »

If I were a member of PWE management, I would be wondering why this topic
just doesn't seem to die. Perhaps it's indicative of the impact the whole episode
had on the game & its players? Most businesses tend to notice this level of
discontent among their clientele, and earnestly try to resolve it.

And, btw, this IS my therapy. b:chuckle

You would think a business would want to maintain it's customers...you'd think that at least...

Kerona - Sanctuary

Frankie, is it a problem of logistics making the change to allow cosmetic changes? Do you have to get it notorized or looked over by a Lawyer? I understand you'd probably have to get all players to review and agree to a new TOS which would be a pain in the butt.

Just seems silly that nobody seems really to be against it and it's costing the company so much in Customer Service hours for no apparent reason. Would be cheaper to just change it.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Frankie, When I click "Save" to save a character appearance into hard disk, that saved file is not a "Game-System File" That's a User file, its MY file, MY version of MY character. Altering this file won't make the game unacessible nor will grant me unfair advantage over our fellow players. b:shutup

So you saying that when you open a text editor and save an .doc file thats a file of the Text editor not yours?

Lessee...

Terms of Service wrote:

PWE is the owner of the Website, the Games, the Software and the Service, which are protected by US and international law including copyright laws. All rights and title in and to the Website, the Game, the Software and the Service, all features and content thereof (including without limitation any user accounts, titles, computer code, files, game software, client and server software, tools, patches, updates, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, storylines, objects, content, text, dialogue, catch phrases, themes, locations, concepts, artwork, designs, graphics, pictures, video, animation, sounds, music, musical, compositions, sound recordings, audio-visual effects, information, data, documentation, , "applets", chat transcripts, character profile information, game play, and recordings )

So no, the text editor does not own the file. The creator of the text editor does.

shopitup

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So you saying that when you open a text editor and save an .doc file thats a file of the Text editor not yours?

Game software companies have very, very different ideas on this than do office software creators. Sort of like this.

Nymphali - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lessee...



So no, the text editor does not own the file. The creator of the text editor does.

Means you can Make a .rtf file in wordpad but cannot use emacs to edit it?

shopitup wrote: »

Game software companies have very, very different ideas on this than do office software creators. Sort of like this.

Other versions of this same game, created by the same company allows ini modifications under certain rules like: Don't make anomalous ugly looking creepy characters.

Finally, the .INI format belongs to a different company, these files are used to pass parameters to the DirectX and does not affect on the gameplay nor changes the original art developed by our Chinese fellows.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

People just bring back goon glitch to compare.
Goon glitch give to some people a serious advantage on other players and that wasn't punished.
The .ini edit give no advantage on other players, but it's more punished than some other offenses.