Severity of Punishments

Bubbles - Morai

frankieraye wrote: »

I agree with you, changing an eye color is not damaging to the game in any way, and it's unfortunate that so many Customer Service hours are spent on enforcing the rule in this way. The thing is, the rule exists because such changes are covered in the whole "You're not allowed to modify any game files" rule. There have been exploits in the past that involved editing other client-side game files, so that's why the rule exists in the first place, and unfortunately purely cosmetic changes fall under it as well. Another part of it is the possibility that modifying certain game files will keep you from being able to log in to the game.

Honestly, we'd love to allow the harmless cosmetic .ini changes, since it would one allow our GM team to focus on far more important issues like **** accounts etc, and two it would let players achieve higher levels of customization to their own characters, which they obviously are interested in doing. Doing so, though, would require a re-wording of that "modifying game files" rule, along with further clarification into its various shades of grey. Still it's definitely something that's being looked at right now.

Frankie... You do realize that editing an ini is not modifying game files... It's simply changing values around to get different options. See: Old UI ini edits
The only exploits that can be gained through modifying the client are those that are client side (as in they cannot affect server side at all) and through a 3rd party program which Wanmei has more or less addressed by putting in strict rubberband.

The no modifying game files really only applies to the game exe itself, data files, and pck files. There are probably few other types of files I am forgetting about but nevertheless...

Frankie, at least answer this:
Who came up with the rule? You, PWE, or Wanmei?
If it was Wanmei who said "No, pwi shall be the only version to ban ini edits", then fine, I get it, can't agrue with the game's owners.
But if it was you, PWE, why? Do you not realize the ini file is the file that is meant to be edited? It's specifically an ini file for a reason; it's meant to be opened with notepad and fool around in. By denying people this option, you're essentially cutting off one of the biggest features of the game.

Frankie, it's 2012.
If you/PWE are the ones who came up with the rule, it wouldn't be that hard to do a policy change like you did with multiclienting and simply come out and say:
Edits with third party programs = bad
Edits to anything other than ini file = bad
Opening with ini with notepad = good

This isn't that hard, and you guys would have less tickets coming in about ini edit bans.
It's not even straying away from the no game modification rule; all you would be doing is allowing people to access legit options that were always there without breaking anything.

thumbs

Lol @ those downplaying the ini edits. They sell make over scrolls. You're basically stealing that from them for those "cosmetic changes".

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

Lol @ those downplaying the ini edits. They sell make over scrolls. You're basically stealing that from them for those "cosmetic changes".

You have to buy a makeover scroll to ini edit. You're not stealing anything. If they sold an item that unlocked things like Earthguard eyes fold older classes I would happily buy it. I'd actively discourage anyone from stealing from PWI by bypassing this with changes to the codes. But they don't. They sell nothing of the sort. You're using PWI's products to alter the files to get looks not currently offered on the east/west coast servers. Those same looks however are allowed on the European servers (same client) and every other version of PWI.

Also not sure why you put cosmetic changes in quotes. Having earthguard eyes gives you no advantage whatsoever in game.

Xainou - Sanctuary

thumbs wrote: »

Lol @ those downplaying the ini edits. They sell make over scrolls. You're basically stealing that from them for those "cosmetic changes".

Please inform yourself before you open your mouth. What you posted makes no sense at all considering the topic...

It's not like you can just mod around something on your pc and make the server accept it. You will still have to use a scroll to actually use the file.

Omnicon - Dreamweaver

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

You will still have to use a scroll to actually use the file.

Question about the makeover scrolls in general. Don't the other variants of pw have "Advanced Makeover Scroll." Someone ingame was talking to me about this, how other variants allow certain edits with an advanced scroll.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Omnicon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Question about the makeover scrolls in general. Don't the other variants of pw have "Advanced Makeover Scroll." Someone ingame was talking to me about this, how other variants allow certain edits with an advanced scroll.

Yes, but it's not a product that has ever been offered here. I think mostly because certain size edits were really abusive prior to tab targeting.

Bubbles - Morai

Omnicon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Question about the makeover scrolls in general. Don't the other variants of pw have "Advanced Makeover Scroll." Someone ingame was talking to me about this, how other variants allow certain edits with an advanced scroll.

Yes, yes they do.

Judging from pw database itself, it's available in my-en's (when it was still up) and jp's cash shop.

There is really nothing that special about it, I know you can change individual eyes shapes but beyond that I don't think it does anything major.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Bubbles - Lothranis wrote: »

Yes, yes they do.

Judging from pw database itself, it's available in my-en's (when it was still up) and jp's cash shop.

There is really nothing that special about it, I know you can change individual eyes shapes but beyond that I don't think it does anything major.

I think that it allows additional size mods and allows more chagnes to the eyes, eyebrows, and mouth. Like having one eyebrow raised or a smirk on your toon's face. Of course the only sources I have are players so that could be wrong. In general I trust warren wolfy and the other player seems to have come from the My-En version. But I could be wrong.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=997332&postcount=3
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12393571&postcount=5

I also can't see a reason why they didn't offer it way back in closed beta unless they somehow were afraid people would do something to gain an unfair advantage. They cared about balance back then.

hyperbarb99

yes i gave it punctuation i was a bit rushed when posting that as i had to run to work for a few hours and had to get that all in quickly

Flutterpie - Lothranis

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

You would've seen better results if you had kept the goon glitchers banned and apologized for not having yet detected all of the worst offenders.

The thing is, the community wanted the glitchers punished, because that's what was fair for them. Most people couldn't care less whether the wording in your banning announcement was accurate or not. Of course, you would still have to deal with the obvious complaints about not having banned some of them, but you could have used that as a means of launching an investigation into those people.

nah the community supported goons when it came out and it was widely popular for over 4 months. the only people pro banning hundreds of players are the idiots on the forums but the forums are infested with trolls who don't even play the game so who cares what they have to say. most of them are trying to kill the game out of spite (ie tremble)

if pwe would listen to the real community they would have brought the goon xp back and called it legal.

thumbs

Flutterpie - Lothranis wrote: »

nah the community supported goons when it came out and it was widely popular for over 4 months. the only people pro banning hundreds of players are the idiots on the forums but the forums are infested with trolls who don't even play the game so who cares what they have to say. most of them are trying to kill the game out of spite (ie tremble)

if pwe would listen to the real community they would have brought the goon xp back and called it legal.

^^ this

This is the first forum I've participated in that tolerates this much ****.

thumbs

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Please inform yourself before you open your mouth. What you posted makes no sense at all considering the topic...

It's not like you can just mod around something on your pc and make the server accept it. You will still have to use a scroll to actually use the file.[/COLOR]

Are you bitter that I didn't call you the next day?

larkray

Flutterpie - Lothranis wrote: »

nah the community supported goons when it came out and it was widely popular for over 4 months. the only people pro banning hundreds of players are the idiots on the forums but the forums are infested with trolls who don't even play the game so who cares what they have to say. most of them are trying to kill the game out of spite (ie tremble)

if pwe would listen to the real community they would have brought the goon xp back and called it legal.

First: Are you sick in the head? Goons drastically changed the game. And it was a permanent change. Something like that should have given anyone who went on a single run, a lifetime IP ban imo. and this is coming from a 3 year player on dw who would like to still be there for another 3 at least...

Second: This game is already ****ing easy enough without goons when a new character can hit 50 in less than 24 hours WITHOUT buying fc heads. TY questmaster/lucidgold.

Flutterpie - Lothranis

larkray2 wrote: »

First: Are you sick in the head? Goons drastically changed the game. And it was a permanent change. Something like that should have given anyone who went on a single run, a lifetime IP ban imo. and this is coming from a 3 year player on dw who would like to still be there for another 3 at least...

Second: This game is already ****ing easy enough without goons when a new character can hit 50 in less than 24 hours WITHOUT buying fc heads. TY questmaster/lucidgold.

whats the difference between goons and heads? they are both examples of the same powerleveling that pwe loves. goons however takes actual skill where heads does not. heads is much worse for the game than goons ever was

the only people who werent gooning when it was popular were either too lazy, undergeared, or had no friends and now they're jealous/butthurt cause its gone and they missed their chance.

truekossy

Flutterpie - Lothranis wrote: »

the only people who werent gooning when it was popular were either too lazy, undergeared, or had no friends and now they're jealous/butthurt cause its gone and they missed their chance.

I didn't goon. I'm not lazy, undergeared, or lacking in friends and was invited to do so many times over. I'm also not jealous at all.

Shoo, troll. Stupid generalizations like that are annoying.

Reliea - Sanctuary

Flutterpie - Lothranis wrote: »

the only people who werent gooning when it was popular were either too lazy, undergeared, or had no friends and now they're jealous/butthurt cause its gone and they missed their chance.

So very untrue. Gooning is against the TOS, and that's why I didn't do it, not because I'm lazy or undergeared or friendless. And I sure as hell am not jealous of people who cheat their way to the top. If something is against the TOS, there is no debate, you just don't do it. There are still players with integrity in PWI, thankfully.

What I am, is disgusted there was not a way of identifying -everyone- who used the glitch and perma-banning that character on their account. Don't even need to ban the whole account, just the offending characters would have been fine with me.
But there really isn't much point to be angry about this anymore. What is done is done, and we can either keep playing, or move on. That's about it. Most people have made their decisions already, so life goes on.

Will something like this happen again? Probably... and I just hope the PWI team handles such abuse of glitches with the proper amount of severity it deserves.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Flutterpie - Lothranis wrote: »

the only people who werent gooning when it was popular were either too lazy, undergeared, or had no friends and now they're jealous/butthurt cause its gone and they missed their chance.

So from what you saying popular geared people should be allowed to abuse glitch?
A chance? Ye a chance cause GMs don't have balls and didn't ban people as it was suppose. (Probably too scare to loose money.)

I was well geared, i have friends and i got pm asking for do it, but i have pride, i got my lvl 102 before it, when every future goon glitch told me that was useless to go more than 101, funny to see they all used it when they had a lazy way to do it while some people done it normally before. People who abused it are actually the lazy person who didn't have the ''motivation'' to work for it normally.

Ois - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

About the bans, the way that we announced it was that those banned were the "worst offenders", and when it turned out that there were actually players who were worse than these and hadn't been caught, it really forced us to question the tools and methods that we had used.

You didn't use any tools. The only way you would "ban" people was if they were reported. The only way we could report them was if we joined the squad, glitched with them, took screen shots, left squad, and report ourselves along with them.

We had 0 support in game from Devs/GMs/whatever you are. And we had 0 support out of game from Devs/GMs/whatever you are.

seitori

Flutterpie - Lothranis wrote: »

whats the difference between goons and heads? they are both examples of the same powerleveling that pwe loves. goons however takes actual skill where heads does not. heads is much worse for the game than goons ever was

the only people who werent gooning when it was popular were either too lazy, undergeared, or had no friends and now they're jealous/butthurt cause its gone and they missed their chance.

LOLzzzzz!!!!!!b:laugh



Still Spouting the {Same Ol! Same OL!!} Now aren't ya, Flutterpie!?!!



And still from that very same (Alt account) with still 'ABSOLUTELY NO!!!~Achievements at all!!!!!' b:embarrass
And you wonder why no one takes you seriously at all! With your Lil'Wanna Be! Fail Ninja snipe Troll! Sessions!!b:pleased



Here, let me try and explain it too you again..... If your gonna try & Flame your way to attempted fame... And expect to be respected on your attempts..... Then Please! 4 GodZz SaKeZz!! Do It From a Primary Account ~,~' Like the rest of us!



(Rather then hide your (Main Ident) behind that (alt account) you seem so attatched TO,o!?) Because all your doing! Is not only making not only yourself; But All The Others! Who've made they're own Similar statements from they're real accounts! "On how supposedly, the Honest players 'like myself' and 'Oh So Many Others!' are Somehow?! Either 'So Lazy', or 'Sooo Unpopular' Or 'Etc.'!!!!" Look bad with your (3rd rate) shadow fail sniping!


Because, atleast they stood up and stated it to us all!! Proudly from They're own (Real Main Accounts)....(While all you do is just rob them of they're legitimicy! On they're own Open Standings!! And begin too make them look like jokes! When you do what your doing, by trying these FaIlEd Alt Account Shadow Snipe Flaming & Troll attempts)...




GoDzZz!!! Atleast the majority of all of us, supposed FAILS! Respect the others who've stated they're own (Opposing opinions) to ours!! From They're Own (Real Primary Accounts) openly! Against us!! Rather then from the Shadow Attempts From a Blatently Obvious! (SPAMMING & TROLLING ACCOUNT!!)....

Brillance - Raging Tide

Ois - Lost City wrote: »

You didn't use any tools. The only way you would "ban" people was if they were reported. The only way we could report them was if we joined the squad, glitched with them, took screen shots, left squad, and report ourselves along with them.
We had 0 support in game from Devs/GMs/whatever you are. And we had 0 support out of game from Devs/GMs/whatever you are.

So um...that makes you the unreliable 'tool' they were using you are saying? b:chuckle

I dont see why any player would go to such lengths to catch another player abusing a glitch? What kind of person plays a game just to catch others at something? That involves a lot of effort that is better off left to the GMs.


I dont see why people are banned for glitches at all, unless they **** their game files to create the glitch that they then abuse. I also dont see why other players get so hot about it, especially in a game where the unfair advantage of merely purchasing the most expensive gears is a sort of 'cheat to the top" as well.


I do see why ini edits arent allowed , but I dont see why one set of servers are allowed to, and others arent. That's clearly a disadvantage.

Ois - Lost City

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

So um...that makes you the unreliable 'tool' they were using you are saying? b:chuckle

I dont see why any player would go to such lengths to catch another player abusing a glitch? What kind of person plays a game just to catch others at something? That involves a lot of effort that is better off left to the GMs.


I dont see why people are banned for glitches at all, unless they **** their game files to create the glitch that they then abuse. I also dont see why other players get so hot about it, especially in a game where the unfair advantage of merely purchasing the most expensive gears is a sort of 'cheat to the top" as well.


I do see why ini edits arent allowed , but I dont see why one set of servers are allowed to, and others arent. That's clearly a disadvantage.

Well I said that they didn't use any tools...if you read the quote you...quoted...

But what I wrote is EXACTLY what we were told to do if we saw glitchers. The only way that PW would look into a player for glitching was if you included all of that information.

I'd be fine with glitching if it were allowed...or if I had known that even though it was a bannable offense...it was not not a bannable offense. I chose not to do it because I didn't want to cheat, break rules, and get banned. What a fool I was.

Oh and one other thing...

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

I dont see why any player would go to such lengths to catch another player abusing a glitch? What kind of person plays a game just to catch others at something? That involves a lot of effort that is better off left to the GMs.

That was my point. PW asked players to do a GMs job for them. PW did not use any tools as I said...they only followed up on the very few tickets that were sent in with ALL of that information. World chat + being lvl 105 was apparently not enough evidence.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Ois - Lost City wrote: »

Well I said that they didn't use any tools...if you read the quote you...quoted...

But what I wrote is EXACTLY what we were told to do if we saw glitchers. The only way that PW would look into a player for glitching was if you included all of that information.

I'd be fine with glitching if it were allowed...or if I had known that even though it was a bannable offense...it was not not a bannable offense. I chose not to do it because I didn't want to cheat, break rules, and get banned. What a fool I was.

I read your quote, and what the GM said too.

Okay, since Frankie said the tools were unreliable, and it seemed like you were confessing to setting up a sort of player "police entrapment" situation in the game. Which would make you a big tool, imo.

Thanks for clearing that up, cause to set that up without being an employee of PWI would make you an unreliable tool of the enth degree.

I didnt do it either for the same reasons. Why does that make us fools in your opinion?

Bottomline: When server populations are sparce, glitches that remain in the game for weeks on end should be the LAST thing players are banned for - whether they are naturally prone to showing good-sportsmanship to their fellow players or not, imo.

Ois - Lost City

Why does it make me a fool? Because instead of soloing frost to 102 I could have just glitched it in a day to 105. By not banning the people who glitched frost PW more or less admitted that glitching frost was no longer against the rules. People who broke the rules got rewarded and people who followed the rules got fked over. PW even admits it.

Oh and I agree with you that with a dead game like PW they couldn't really haul off and ban everyone who glitched in the end. They let it go WAY TOO LONG to the point where the entire entire playerbase was basically doing it. If they had addressed it in a reasonable time frame and banned the glitchers as they appeared it would have been a completely different story.

PW: Don't glitch or you will be banned.
Player: I don't care.

*Player glitches*
*Player not banned*

Player: Hey everyone I glitched and I'm not banned.

When that started happening it spread like wildfire. And yet the staff did nothing lol. We didn't even have GMs in game. We still don't.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Ois - Lost City wrote: »

Why does it make me a fool? Because instead of soloing frost to 102 I could have just glitched it in a day to 105. By not banning the people who glitched frost PW more or less admitted that glitching frost was no longer against the rules. People who broke the rules got rewarded and people who followed the rules got fked over. PW even admits it.

And what would you have won if you glitched it to 105 in a day(if that would even be possible)?

What did you miss out on because of it? Was there a $50K real life cash prize for doing that or something??

I stopped doing FC at level 100. There's just no reason too, since its a repetitive grind Ive done enough, and I get more XP for the Morai quests, lol.

truekossy

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

And what would you have won if you glitched it to 105 in a day(if that would even be possible)

That's a sin... on a PvP server... where everyone above level 30 is fair game outside of safe zones. The stealth levels, damage reduction, detect levels, and extra affinities on genie are all worth it for what would have essentially been a no-consequence max level.

Ois - Lost City

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

And what would you have won if you glitched it to 105 in a day(if that would even be possible)?

What did you miss out on because of it? Was there a $50K real life cash prize for doing that or something??

I stopped doing FC at level 100. There's just no reason too, since its a repetitive grind Ive done enough, and I get more XP for the Morai quests, lol.

What did I miss out on? The biggest thing is that there are a ton of Sins that passed me in level...so I can no longer see them. Sin vs Sin in pvp most of the time the higher lvl and/or the one who attacks first wins. That is a huge problem...there are TONS of sins that magically went from 1-103+ overnight.

People who glitched also got extra attributes, hp, and attack/defense lvls.

For a lot of classes it doesn't matter much...for sins it does.

Brillance - Raging Tide

truekossy wrote: »

That's a sin... on a PvP server... where everyone above level 30 is fair game outside of safe zones. The stealth levels, damage reduction, detect levels, and extra affinities on genie are all worth it for what would have essentially been a no-consequence max level.

And that's part of the fun of being a sin....or any other char on a PvP server, isn't it?

That's what Pkers have always told me. xD


I can see the difference in that case, but it was a game wide thingy. PvE too. I can see 105 making a difference, and the anger over what is percieved to be an unfair advantage.

I still dont see being angry people didnt get banned over it. Maybe cause Im not a PvPer, I just dont get the complete "I GOT to get that guy!" mentality over it.

Its a glitch, and one the players didnt create.

I can see PW requesting that players (especially those with a lynch mob mentaility) send in screenies - to placate them for a bit while they worked out a fix for the glitch. But, I hope they see what a REALLY bad idea that is, now, in hind sight.

Much like a glitch, there is just too much room for abuse, sad to say.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Ois - Lost City wrote: »

What did I miss out on? The biggest thing is that there are a ton of Sins that passed me in level...so I can no longer see them. Sin vs Sin in pvp most of the time the higher lvl and/or the one who attacks first wins. That is a huge problem...there are TONS of sins that magically went from 1-103+ overnight.

People who glitched also got extra attributes, hp, and attack/defense lvls.

For a lot of classes it doesn't matter much...for sins it does.

I see your anger, and I guess in a way I would feel screwed too. I can feel your pain.

But, if anyone DID do runs to glitch the dragoons and take screenies for the GMs, did they not also get the benefits of the glitch too? Yes, they did. Unfair to ban in that case, isnt it?

truekossy

It's not so much that they didn't get banned over it as it's that PWI wasn't enforcing its own ToS, did a sloppy job, and that now people who are performing infractions that are either minor in comparison or flat out shouldn't even be considered as such are receiving bans that are so much more severe.

That combined with the fact that the fix has essentially made it so that if you don't solo runs or do it with a set core group of friends you'll almost never do the full instance (and even if you do the nerf has basically screwed those who do it legit compared to those who didn't beforehand) and you start to see why so many people here are annoyed and tend to bring it up as an example so often.

Ois - Lost City

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

And that's part of the fun of being a sin....or any other char on a PvP server, isn't it?

That's what Pkers have always told me. xD


I can see the difference in that case, but it was a game wide thingy. PvE too. I can see 105 making a difference, and the anger over what is percieved to be an unfair advantage.

I still dont see being angry people didnt get banned over it. Maybe cause Im not a PvPer, I just dont get the complete "I GOT to get that guy!" mentality over it.

Its a glitch, and one the players didnt create.

I can see PW requesting that players (especially those with a lynch mob mentaility) send in screenies - to placate them for a bit while they worked out a fix for the glitch. But, I hope they see what a REALLY bad idea that is, now, in hind sight.

Much like a glitch, there is just too much room for abuse, sad to say.

You really don't seem to understand what I'm saying...

I don't have anything against the players who abused it. They did so feeling fairly confident that nothing would happen to them...and they were right.

I have something against the way PW handled the whole damn thing. Saying it's bannable and not banning people. Allowing it to go on for months. Removing the exp from goons without fixing the damage that it already caused.

The whole thing needed to be all or nothing. You're banned or you're not. If they did not allow glitching then people needed to be banned. That's all there is to it. If they weren't going to ban people then they needed to change their standing so that honest players could also benefit from it.

Instead PW said it was against the rules and you'd be banned. PW did not change their mind on the rules. PW did not follow through with the bans. PW removed the ability to glitch once everyone who was glitching got their fill.

If you can't see why players are frustrated...I don't think I can explain it more clearly.