Geared enough for Delta ?

Amup - Raging Tide

Went on my first delta on my BM 101 and well..It didn't go too well

Squad wiped and never reformed..

I will post my set-up (please don't laugh if it's a bit messed up but hey it works...)

That's with no buffs at all on.

http://pwcalc.com/2a82f2993bc5fec8

So is this enough to get me at least as far enough to get my glacial tear for oht map 2 ?

I have Demon Stun, all AoE axes skills at 10 (not demon though)

Only thing I ask is tips, on how to survive better, please, I don't want big remarks about my equipement or people that say it really blows for my level..

I mainly want to know if it's ok enough to get a delta done (maybe not full but at least for bh and my culti) or on what should I invest more to feel less weak.

Btw, my genie has cloud eruption, tangling mire, true emptyness and second wind, with 72 str, and yah i'm charmed.

Ty

Edited : Note, phys atk should be higher, didn't even put on ax and hammer mastery at lvl 10 (but not demon though)

Grushenka - Lost City

Try to refine axes a bit

I think gear should be good enough.

Delta is a team effort. If there are some really strong people, then other people can slack, and if people slack other people need to pick it up for them. So it really depends on the squad, but i think this would be good if you had a charm. Its a team effort, and there is a small learning curve.

Amup - Raging Tide

Ya kinda thought axes were low a tad, concentrate dmore on getting fists to + 5 b:surrender

This is with all buffs I had inside on, if anyone else cares to give their opinion.

http://pwcalc.com/6e85fa4530d62369

HellWariorB - Raging Tide

Yes as Grushenka said u look fine.

Try to get some good mag belt and necklace

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

What kind of attack and pdef for us supporting classes?

I kinda need to get a cultivation delta done sometime.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Uhm, you should at least, I mean very minimum, get GX's or something else. You're way too high to be using Calamity Axes which are 31 levels below your current level. I would suggest until you get a better weapon to avoid RB. Imagine a wizard coming to a rebirth with an Ancient Arbor or Grief's Breath.

Also, your magic defence is horrible. Waves 3, 8, and 9 are going to slaughter you. Look into a swindler's necklace at minimum and some elemental +vit belt until you can get a paradise sachet, and always use magic marrow at wave 3, some of 8, and wave 9 later subwaves. Having vac or sutra orbs might help in case barb goes down. Also get alpha male for your genie to pull mobs away when a new wave is coming so the barb doesn't have to pull them along with the incoming wave.

For "culti", as in, Spiritual Cultivation, there is only one rebirth, which is full, which follows a full chrono rebirth, so prepare for a full.

As for the veno (Vitenka) they really aren't going to get much aggro (worst case is initial aggro) but pdef isn't really as important as +hp and -chan gear -- you will have defence aura giving you pdef. Also bring teleport stones if you're charmed and don't want to kill it running tix.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Channelling is well on the way to being sorted, and hp is 5k - is that enough?

And wow, paradise sachet is actually good for someone?

For "culti", as in, Spiritual Cultivation, there is only one rebirth, which is full, which follows a full chrono rebirth, so prepare for a full.

As for the veno (Vitenka) they really aren't going to get much aggro (worst case is initial aggro) but pdef isn't really as important as +hp and -chan gear -- you will have defence aura giving you pdef. Also bring teleport stones if you're charmed and don't want to kill it running tix.

I know it's two full runs. This is why I've not done it yet. Need to set aside a weekend even after finding other people willing to go.

I don't understand the "Running tix" comment. Are you saying the veno does the NPC quest, rather than the chest+mob bean digging? (In my gamma runs it's been the barb doing that one while the cleric tanks wave2)

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Amup - Raging Tide wrote: »

Went on my first delta on my BM 101 and well..It didn't go too well

Squad wiped and never reformed..

I will post my set-up (please don't laugh if it's a bit messed up but hey it works...)

That's with no buffs at all on.

http://pwcalc.com/2a82f2993bc5fec8

So is this enough to get me at least as far enough to get my glacial tear for oht map 2 ?

I have Demon Stun, all AoE axes skills at 10 (not demon though)

Only thing I ask is tips, on how to survive better, please, I don't want big remarks about my equipement or people that say it really blows for my level..

I mainly want to know if it's ok enough to get a delta done (maybe not full but at least for bh and my culti) or on what should I invest more to feel less weak.

Btw, my genie has cloud eruption, tangling mire, true emptyness and second wind, with 72 str, and yah i'm charmed.

Ty

Edited : Note, phys atk should be higher, didn't even put on ax and hammer mastery at lvl 10 (but not demon though)

upgrade your axes -.-; would you want any other class to run with tt70 or anything? i mean seriously i was one of the original fist bms before the aps hype i was it from level 1 when dreamweaver came out and i still made sure i kept up to level on my axes just for rebirth purposes.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

^ for Vitenka..

Oh, the cultivation thing was more for the BM's post. HP is okay, especially if unbuffed. Sachet is good for anyone who needs mag def for refines. For arcanes and some light armours, guard of thundershock (the other gold belt you have as an option when finishing chrono quest -- the one ppl often confuse for "culti" due to it's quest colour) is a better idea.

The RB referred to (delta) is not like gamma. Unless you are (hopefully not) paired with a sin as DD, you will be running tickets, or as you call it, NPC quests. If you're fast enough it should be done while squad is digging @ wave 2 so you will eventually join them for chests+mobs in the later happy valley areas, usually the last 2 or 3 for an average ticket run. For veno's without lvl 11 summer sprint (or no demon fox form) charger orbs help too, and obviously holy path. The other option besides teleport stones is killing yourself after taking the last quest which can be a hassle for several reasons I shouldn't need to iterate for anyone who knows the 1k bug or what charm **** is.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Yeah, well aware of the 1k problem. I've got a few teleport essences lying around, and run at 9m/s if there's an archer around, so that should be ok even though I'm Sage.

Is there any guide to running the ticket quests? Or a way to practice them? I've not done that job before and don't want to get lost.

I'm surprised that belt is any good - but I guess highly refined it becomes worth it.

And yeah - 2k mdef seems pretty bad, even unbuffed.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

It isn't that tough really, you just run as fast as you can from NPC to NPC following along the valley. xD

It pretty much guides itself because it's so straight forward. Just make sure of a couple things to help make life easier:

1) There are stepping stones on the way to the third valley area. Just jump into the pit as if you were going to jump from the furthest ledge over like you were Neo from the Matrix, and like Neo in his first jump you won't make it of course. Once you fall in the pit in that area closest to the next area, it will move you up. You'll know what I mean when you get there. You can technically make it jumping the platforms but it's too much a hassle and this game sucks for rubber banding which sometimes throws you backwards and off the ledge.

2) At the very end of the valley make sure to talk to the NPC there before hitting the teleport stone/hitting mobs to kill yourself.

3) After running any ticket quest and going back to the beginning of happy valley remember to talk to the Reciprocator twice. One time to turn in, a second time to pick up the next quest. It's a habit when not thinking but trying to run as quickly as possible to just take the quest once which is just turning in, and then the veno has to run back or teleport stone when they reach the first NPC without the shield above their head.

If you're that determined to "practice", find 5 friends to help you start a rebirth. You need 6 delta orders in place to enter rebirth, make sure you have lead. Don't talk to the NPC once you get in to actually start rebirth (unless you have 6 orders to burn to see where Reciprocator spawns just inside the valley), just have everyone leave. You enter the portal to happy valley and you can just run from NPC to NPC just to see how it's like. You won't have any quests, of course, nor will the Reciprocator spawn (unless you started the rebirth itself) but it's just to take a "test run" so to speak.

Watain - Raging Tide

Your gear looks ok. I think the most important aspect is to get a decent squad setup, have Alpha Male and set the Auras in the appropriate order.

On my BM we completed a full Delta with 4 9x chars, a 100 Barb and a 100 Seeker without any major problems. The one time the barb died, Alpha Male succeeded in saving the Cleric's butt, as me and the Seeker casted it repeadetly until the Barb was back and buffed up. Just try to stun as much as possible, and whip out your AOEs. Sage BP helps a lot as well, and maybe Anti Stun skill+Tranquilizing Orbs incase the fit hits the shan.

Also, I agree with the people who recommend getting a new pair of axes. If you want to go the cheap way like me, get some 2* OHT axes. Otherwise I'd recommend TT90 at the very least. I personally wouldn't use Zerk axes in RB, but meh, that's just me.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Watain - Raging Tide wrote: »

Your gear looks ok. I think the most important aspect is to get a decent squad setup, have Alpha Male and set the Auras in the appropriate order.

On my BM we completed a full Delta with 4 9x chars, a 100 Barb and a 100 Seeker without any major problems. The one time the barb died, Alpha Male succeeded in saving the Cleric's butt, as me and the Seeker casted it repeadetly until the Barb was back and buffed up. Just try to stun as much as possible, and whip out your AOEs. Sage BP helps a lot as well, and maybe Anti Stun skill+Tranquilizing Orbs incase the fit hits the shan.

Also, I agree with the people who recommend getting a new pair of axes. If you want to go the cheap way like me, get some 2* OHT axes. Otherwise I'd recommend TT90 at the very least. I personally wouldn't use Zerk axes in RB, but meh, that's just me.

I can see the point about no zerk axes but keep in mind most RB squads have 1) BB, which halves damage taken, and 2) an assassin.. the BP easily heals back the HP lost from zerk. The reason behind zerk axes is to maximize damage to take down waves as fast as possible. Some of the worst RB situations arise from waves living too long and stacking them up, especially when dealing with bosses and/or mobs that can knock down BB. The faster they go down, the better for the squad.

I should have mentioned OHT axes as well. Djinn's Waltz are pretty cheap and decent as well (if one can be so lucky to find decent ones made in a prompt manner), especially the sac strike variant, to tide someone over until, say, G15 axes.

Personally I'm quite confused as to why so few BM's I go rebirth with have alpha male. Especially for the magic waves, it sucks for a barb to have to drag out a handful of mobs plus the incoming waves, especially if the mobs being dragged back out stun/paralyze/sleep/seal.

Watain - Raging Tide

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I can see the point about no zerk axes but keep in mind most RB squads have 1) BB, which halves damage taken, and 2) an assassin.. the BP easily heals back the HP lost from zerk. The reason behind zerk axes is to maximize damage to take down waves as fast as possible. Some of the worst RB situations arise from waves living too long and stacking them up, especially when dealing with bosses and/or mobs that can knock down BB. The faster they go down, the better for the squad.

I should have mentioned OHT axes as well. Djinn's Waltz are pretty cheap and decent as well (if one can be so lucky to find decent ones made in a prompt manner), especially the sac strike variant, to tide someone over until, say, G15 axes.

Personally I'm quite confused as to why so few BM's I go rebirth with have alpha male. Especially for the magic waves, it sucks for a barb to have to drag out a handful of mobs plus the incoming waves, especially if the mobs being dragged back out stun/paralyze/sleep/seal.

Well, true. I just basically decided against Zerk axes so far because I didn't wanna run around with Calas, and have yet to get the GXs lol. IMO, Djinn's Waltz are a great alternative even w/o the zerk (although it would ofc be preferable). I got pretty lucky when I made mine, with +205 HP, +10 Str and +138(?) max P-Atk. Still good enough to dish out damage.
Another good choice is the TT99 Unparalleld Brimstones Edges. They're fairly cheap to get.

And yeah, gotta love Alpha. I know how crucial it can be due to my main being a barb...

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

when i (full)delta on my failed BM ( http://pwcalc.com/82f2c4748da2deb6 )
im not getting hit at all mostly, its totally pointless to try get aggro

just Stun tangling mire HF axe macro :O


when your squad dies they fail and not you, BM is not supposed to tank, just buff and debuff mobs and do auras

Aoe-DDs are supposed to tank all mobs, when they are weak they are fail and its only their fault!


the archer/wizard/seeker need to be able to tank everything, not bm

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Usually the barb tanks as far as roar can hold aggro (which sometimes is quite a while if the DD isn't terribly high), but yeah, I don't think anyone said a BM tanks the waves, although, it's his job to help prevent as much dmg to squishies as he can. Hence stun and alpha. He's also the backup puller if the puller goes down. I'd say 90%+ of psy's and wizards cannot tank full waves especially wave 4 and on and need all the help they can get. Using the word "only" as in to suggest it's only the AOE DD's fault if they die is wrong -- though in many cases wizards who cant handle the aggro tend to keep db up too long, and I've seen quite a number of them without expel or AD, which is baffling.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote:

Personally I'm quite confused as to why so few BM's I go rebirth with have alpha male. Especially for the magic waves, it sucks for a barb to have to drag out a handful of mobs plus the incoming waves, especially if the mobs being dragged back out stun/paralyze/sleep/seal.

You expect today's powerleveling noobs to even know what Alpha Male is? :P

I kid, of course, but... yeah. Running ANY kind of rebirth with randoms...... *shudder*



@OP: When I ran my Wave 4 OHT Culti (2nd map), I was comparably geared to you (and still am). My gear consists of mostly TT90 gold and mold items. Obviously the requirements will be a little different for a BM, but the short answer is "you're fine." The long answer is basically "get a stronger axe (I like Janus's suggestion of OHT axe)" along with "switch to magic res ornaments."

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

I can't count how many times I have joined an RB to see the BM using Calamities. This baffles me. You are level 100+... get at least level 90 axes. x.x The point distribution is not that hard; my level 85 BM has axes and fists her level. And in RB it is important (especially on waves 3 and 9) to do as much damage as possible. Maybe this is why people advertise and want you to link weapon now...

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yeah, well aware of the 1k problem. I've got a few teleport essences lying around, and run at 9m/s if there's an archer around, so that should be ok even though I'm Sage.

Is there any guide to running the ticket quests? Or a way to practice them? I've not done that job before and don't want to get lost.

1k problem is easy to avoid. I am never charmed so I suicide. Take off all your armor and just *don't* aoe the mobs. I hit two mobs with single casts; one mob on later runs because I finish with my hp still low generally.

As far as speed, if you are running with friends I guess 9 m/s is ok. With my level 11 summer sprint, if there is an archer, I run around that (also Sage). But I also spam holy path and use a Charger Orb for the first sprint when my genie is dead from suiciding. It is very important to be done the runs to help dig... otherwise, sometimes, not all of the digging can be finished. I am usually done before wave 2 boss comes so can help more, and get praised by squads for it.

As far as guides, this is what I watched before my first RB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_OM-r-07p8

It shows you the path to run. Made me less nervous about trying lol.

hanfknolle

Well when you BM is 101 this should no problem ... i mean one year ago there was many people with stuff like that and back to old days 2009 it was quite normal so its pretty ok for delta since you not the Tank lol. Stun HF Job you ok with you equipment but when u get rich try r9 nirvana mix :P

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Personally I'm quite confused as to why so few BM's I go rebirth with have alpha male. Especially for the magic waves, it sucks for a barb to have to drag out a handful of mobs plus the incoming waves, especially if the mobs being dragged back out stun/paralyze/sleep/seal.

b:surrender This lol.

I alpha male every 30-40 secs I think, and roar after the BM's stun wears off, as well as spam all my aoes, sunder, surf, frighten. My dinky lil +7 GX keep aggro from all but basically R9 bar afew. Baffles me why BM's don't help me out. Or alpha mobs just as I go for next wave >.<

Too many "I so pr0 I hit 5aps" BMs around. I giggle when I see them standing ready for RB, with like tt100 +10 fists or something, then whip out some pathetic +3 barely better than NPC standard axes lol, while keeping on their 2 evasion ornaments ...



To OP, try to run with people of equal gear standards too, unless one is so OP he can solo it under BB or w/e lol. Just takes 1 harder hitting DD, where aggro remains his and he can't handle it, to die, creating a potential domino effect. (Personal Exp) x.x

Miugre - Heavens Tear

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Too many "I so pr0 I hit 5aps" BMs around. I giggle when I see them standing ready for RB, with like tt100 +10 fists or something, then whip out some pathetic +3 barely better than NPC standard axes lol, while keeping on their 2 evasion ornaments ...

Now see, I was gonna blame this in my first post instead of powerleveling n00bs, but I figured people would say "oh, there goes Miug ranting about 5aps again." XD

But yeah, you're totally right on this. -_- Though the powerleveling certainly does play a role. People these days are conditioned to think that if you can solo FF or Nirvana with 5aps, you're god. The irony being that they wouldn't last 5mins in a real team-based instance like RB. XD

Yuniryu - Raging Tide

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now see, I was gonna blame this in my first post instead of powerleveling n00bs, but I figured people would say "oh, there goes Miug ranting about 5aps again." XD

But yeah, you're totally right on this. -_- Though the powerleveling certainly does play a role. People these days are conditioned to think that if you can solo FF or Nirvana with 5aps, you're god. The irony being that they wouldn't last 5mins in a real team-based instance like RB. XD

And you wonder why randoms fail sometimes lol.b:laugh

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Yeah, was going to use holy path too. I know about the jumping bit, since I was usually on bean-duty in gamma. Just didn't want to mess up the tickets quest, but sounds like it's pretty simple.
You have 5 people fighting the early waves, not 4, in gamma, then?

What about setting up the auras with the beans the NPC-quest runner is delivering? Whose job is that?

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Yuniryu - Raging Tide wrote: »

And you wonder why randoms fail sometimes lol.b:laugh

I don't wonder. I shudder. :P As I mentioned before.

In all seriousness, taking randoms on RB is a huge risk. Whereas something tamer like BH79 is a lot less of a problem. I know some people who won't even take randoms on those runs. How, then, do you meet the few diamonds-in-the-rough who you might take on RB later? :P

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yeah, was going to use holy path too. I know about the jumping bit, since I was usually on bean-duty in gamma. Just didn't want to mess up the tickets quest, but sounds like it's pretty simple.
You have 5 people fighting the early waves, not 4, in gamma, then?

What about setting up the auras with the beans the NPC-quest runner is delivering? Whose job is that?

Yeah, tickets are pretty straight forward. The NPCs only have one option per menu screen and none of the NPCs are off the path, so it's pretty hard to **** it up. The only trick is speed. Like Janus, I tend to use Teleport Essences for the return trip. It gives my genie a little longer to recharge for the next run through and depending on your stats, takes about the same amount of time to suicide. Also, when you're on your last run, you can spend some time killing the mobs/digging chests in the back room. Talk to the NPC and then watch the timer- you should have about 7-8 minutes left. If you're fast, you can clear the mobs in the room so that when the squad starts digging chests, there's a little less to do at the far end.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 5 or 4 people, but the ticket NPCs don't spawn immediately, so I normally stay back and help out with the first few mobs before starting runs.

Auras are generally done by the BM (or barb if there isn't a BM). You don't have to be there when auras are being set, but you do have to be there to collect bonus beans.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Why would the BM need good axes? All they need to do is aoe stun, HF, and alpha male.

The rest is up to the DD. A good competent squad is more important than better axes.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would the BM need good axes? All they need to do is aoe stun, HF, and alpha male.

The rest is up to the DD. A good competent squad is more important than better axes.

Some of us actually have/squad with BM's with decent axes that can AOE like a beast. As far as BM's go.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Some of us actually have/squad with BM's with decent axes that can AOE like a beast. As far as BM's go.

Hmm I guess my history in delta may have been atypical because it always seemed like the BM DD is negligible.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

The most important role in a delta is the barb. If you have a good barb, the BM can be in npc gear and still pass.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

^ True enough. I've done full RB runs with BM's using thunderdeaths or lion kings.. so I agree although still see no reason a BM 101 should be running around with calamity's given the huge difference just between those and GX's never mind warfog's or hell, the R8's. I also did my first full rebirth on my 93 wizard using TT80 gold crit mag sword. Most things are possible, although that places more burden upon others as I learned with my wizard, as the BM had most of the aggro on that run, about some 2 years ago.

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide

Well thanks a lot for all the imput, really didn't think so many would reply.

Yeah OP is me on my other account, this is my BM.

For now I "think" I don't have the str to wear tt90 axes and Calloused are still a tad out of reach monetary wise. As you see by my gear, i'm not a heavy cash shopper (it's even my wife that got me my lionheart legs) so getting squads for anything that really pays is a bit of a pain. Of course, beeing "just" 2.86 aps sparked doesnt really help and when once I thought starting to run nirvana to sell uncannies, well now I level tailor to 6 to save them up to turn eventually my legs into nirvana ones.

Anyway, for now I am gonna try my best to mmerchant my way to make those calamities to +3 (well that's already done in fact, just waiting for the mail from my seeker), then gonna make them +4 and slowly towards +5 at least.

I am still using Gorenox as well (+5) cause even if it hits less fast then deicides, i do like the proc so probably gonna keep them still a while. Anyway, even if most high end "require" APS, the only plans I have right now is getting 2 pieces of Ashuara to get a extra -0.05, then nirvana legs, so if calculations are right, should bring me to 3.33 sparked and open a few more door for me.

As for delta related stuff, some suggested using magical ornaments, I will mostly try to find a good neck and belt in my finance range (heck if i have to use a refined equine talisman/demon slaughter belt combo, I will till I get better)

I just have to read a tad more now about the running for celebeans or whatever, unless I dont mind squads doing the running, but knowing is better then staying ignorant.

And just in case some might think i'm a powerleveld noob, nah i'm not. I just happen to have 4 chars over 80 now (that i leveled slowly since March 2010) and total cost of all skills and equipement/charms and whatnot would have been probably better invested just on one char.

Ty again for all your help , to make me realise, it was maybe a bad experience but gearing myself up would make it better.

Just for information too, the barb that ran with us, was a dex barb, he had, if I recall right, 12k hp at lvl 102 and having his charm tick before even reaching BB, so that might have been part as well of our fail attempt..