Archers Outdated?
DeathenShada - Archosaur
Posts: 82 Arc User
Lately i've been feeling that Archers are being put out to pasture and everytime I stand up for then I get smashed down about how sins are better. "Sins can do everything better" "we have blood paint" "we have higher aps" etc.
And then you ever notice when people ask for pullers it's sins not archers. Before in zhen archers where valued for their AEO now seekers are what people want.
So I've feeling depressed right now..... So whats your guys opinion prove me wrong or rather all my annoying faction members wrong. Shead some light on why archers are still important. b:surrender
And then you ever notice when people ask for pullers it's sins not archers. Before in zhen archers where valued for their AEO now seekers are what people want.
So I've feeling depressed right now..... So whats your guys opinion prove me wrong or rather all my annoying faction members wrong. Shead some light on why archers are still important. b:surrender
Post edited by DeathenShada - Archosaur on
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If your talking about PVE.. archer is probably cheapest class to achieve 5.0 as demon. Pretty decent damage and can tank quite a few bosses/instances.. depends on the gear refine for the most part.
If your talking PVP.. i think $ depends how well your class does. Dont matter if your a pro with **** gears.. you be one shot to anyone with $. Sins are somewat faceroll class for the most part.. specially if the other person is lower gear or close gear to sins gears.
Overall I really think all the old class should get a couple of new skills tbh.. but i dont see this happen.. any time soon. maybe in 2015.
Archer with rank9 and high refines can probably do a lot of things though.. LA armor was crappy for the most part until now.. that you have so much defense level and OP bow. Also the refines make archers go from 14-18k Hp.. spamming magic charms on the right moment.. they could take down some of the annoying magic users.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0 -
Territory War.
Group pvp dead on pve servers so I can't say that exactly, but this is still a great class. And for someone to claim "assassins are better because they have more aps" shows a complete lack of understanding in basic game terminology and mechanics. Furthermore, it indicates they probably had oxygen cut off from their brain for a few seconds too long sometime in their past.
But nothing puts those sins in their place better than the realization that they are nearly useless in one of the most popular endgame activities across all servers.
Let me tell you what assassins do if they want to really make a difference or be wanted in TW...they make archer alts.
EDIT: what Kedge said is also true, a demon archer is the cheapest class/path to outfit for 5 aps. And if you get Rank 9, you can almost wear the complete set and still be 5.0(sparked) which I find kind of an exciting prospect.0 -
_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »Territory War.
Group pvp dead on pve servers so I can't say that exactly, but this is still a great class. And for someone to claim "assassins are better because they have more aps" shows a complete lack of understanding in basic game terminology and mechanics. Furthermore, it indicates they probably had oxygen cut off from their brain for a few seconds too long sometime in their past.
But nothing puts those sins in their place better than the realization that they are nearly useless in one of the most popular endgame activities across all servers.
Let me tell you what assassins do if they want to really make a difference or be wanted in TW...they make archer alts.
EDIT: what Kedge said is also true, a demon archer is the cheapest class/path to outfit for 5 aps. And if you get Rank 9, you can almost wear the complete set and still be 5.0 which I find kind of an exciting prospect.
Lmao you're wrong about that last remark, sins do as much in tw as archers do in pk. People are just too ignorant or lazy to figure out how like I did a while ago, End of discussion[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
They should make slingshot mastery,and crossbow mastery,and slingshot should have some skills and crossbows should have some special skills..kinda like bm with swords and fist type deal.This game is like washing hair with shampoo... Rinse and repeat if desired.
Proud owner of many mains.101 bm,101 seeker,101 demon sin,100 sage sin,101 archer,101 barb,100 cleric,100 wiz( first toon since sept 08 finally made it in 2013)newly added mystic 100 HA,72 psy.0 -
ProtocoI - Harshlands wrote: »Lmao you're wrong about that last remark, sins do as much in tw as archers do in pk. People are just too ignorant or lazy to figure out how like I did a while ago, End of discussion
Well I have seen assassins completely clear sp, but that was with gear advantage and of course, stealth. I just don't see how a non-ranged melee LA quite holds up to an archer's performance in mass PvP, however if you care to tell me about it I'm all ears. But many assassins on my server seem to fit this lazy/ignorant category then, considering they are simply making TW archers.
But the discussion shall not end here!0 -
_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »Well I have seen assassins completely clear sp, but that was with gear advantage and of course, stealth. I just don't see how a non-ranged melee LA quite holds up to an archer's performance in mass PvP, however if you care to tell me about it I'm all ears. But many assassins on my server seem to fit this lazy/ignorant category then, considering they are simply making TW archers.
But the discussion shall not end here!
Tw problem for sins is the lv and gear.
Even though they can fap outside of sz and wait for under gear people to come out.. Once in TW there will be a few 104-105s.. which means Either if your a factor sin (rank9) that focus ep and important targets.. you will probably get hate target by higher sins. This will probably lower the "Enjoy of face roll class" while other classes like mages.. all they have to do is drop an ulti and run away.
I still think a 104-105 sin with good gear.. can probably be more annoying than an archer.. specially if you immune pot on the right time and stealth away.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0 -
Biggest problem for sins in TW: Bramble.
Nothing's more fun than watching a sin pop up in the middle of a group and AoE... and then die from the reflected damage. If bramble didn't work in TW, sins would be a lot more capable in terms of how much they can kill before focus fire murders them/waiting for stealth cooldowns.
Archers, on the other hand... well.... when was the last time bramble reflected arrow damage back at you? b:laugh0 -
ProtocoI - Harshlands wrote: »Lmao you're wrong about that last remark, sins do as much in tw as archers do in pk. People are just too ignorant or lazy to figure out how like I did a while ago, End of discussion
You're kidding right?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dysk is my tasty chimichanga.
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DeathenShada - Archosaur wrote: »Lately i've been feeling that Archers are being put out to pasture and everytime I stand up for then I get smashed down about how sins are better. "Sins can do everything better" "we have blood paint" "we have higher aps" etc.
And then you ever notice when people ask for pullers it's sins not archers. Before in zhen archers where valued for their AEO now seekers are what people want.
So I've feeling depressed right now..... So whats your guys opinion prove me wrong or rather all my annoying faction members wrong. Shead some light on why archers are still important. b:surrender
People said that exact same thing to me while I leveled my archer, but coming from playing a wizard, I already knew the majority of aps classes had no clue what they were talking about at low levels. Sure sin is a higher dps, but archers were there first and its not like sins somehow nerfed archer dd output.
TW is obviously where Archers (along with Wizzies and Psys) shine more compared to the normal sin/bm know it alls found in pve instances. pvp is also a nice prospect.
Range is important. I think its mostly fist archers that give us a bad name (no offense if any are offended). Pure dex TW build is totally where its at. Use str tome if you want 5.0/Deicides.
Im sage and pure bow and I still steal aggro. Ill take an Axe using HFing BM and a SS using sin or a veno over some aps autospark macros any day.
Also, sins can be very dangerous in TW, but their thing really is stealth. And ganking. And tbh, its abit of a cowardly tactic, but someone has got to do it I suppose. Ijs, I cant name the last time I saw a sin and then he managed to kill me (WoG is so antisin).
tl;dr Archers arent outdated. The vast majority of pwi is too caught up in aps to understand how to play any of their classes.Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451
Retired from PWI.
b:bye0 -
Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »You're kidding right?
I can gaurantee with my tactics, I could win a defensive TW only with sins and an offensive one with just tideborns. But again, It would take more than an ignorant "it can't be done" look on your face to pull it off.
People are so blind on this game and even then what makes it worse is that they swear they were right. They said the same thing when I said sins would solo endgame when they first came out, now look b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well I can understand how you feel about your archer. But trust me the situation as wiz is even worse because with an archer you at least can get 5 aps which a caster cant. For the delta issue you are right the seeker has become no1 tank in delta with vortex and i would rate the DD order for delta now seeker ->psy -->archer -> wiz. But luckily you will still get a squad for that because people go for 2 different DD classes here. When it comes to PvP
in TW i fear archers more than sins because they have awesome range and with an endgame weapon it is like normal hits from max range on a target ->tab next target ... of course a sin with bow could do the same but the sin doesnt have stunning arrow and the range is smaller. so in terms of mass pvp its Psy/Arch -->wiz -- > rest
In 1v1 pvp sins **** all classes because they are completely OP.
But even if your class can no longer be considered one of the top classes archer is still fun to play and it is very vesatile in its use. So if you wanna pwn roll a fish and if you wanna something strong new roll earthbound.0 -
ProtocoI - Harshlands wrote: »I can gaurantee with my tactics, I could win a defensive TW only with sins and an offensive one with just tideborns.
You could win a defensive TW using no show faction, if the other side cooperates.
And you could beat that no-show faction with a single level 1 psychic.
So... you are right. You could.
Edit: In other words, you have not made a very interesting claim. But its certainly the case that your opponents would need to use different tactics against your hypothetical faction than they normally use. And I expect you would clean up against another faction if you heavily outgeared them.0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »You could win a defensive TW using no show faction, if the other side cooperates.
And you could beat that no-show faction with a single level 1 psychic.
So... you are right. You could.
Lol good try at a troll, I'm surprised you didn't say "a group of level 1 psychics, 20 venos, a whole bunch of pots with full sage buffs all on a R9 archer who got debuffed by crimson before he went to TW".
And with that I end my turn.b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Harshlands TW must be drastically different than Sanctuary TW if he's being realistic to what he knows...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »Harshlands TW must be drastically different than Sanctuary TW if he's being realistic to what he knows...
Or you just haven't thought hard enough, yeah... Let's go with that one[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Someone please give this kid an all-sin faction to command so he will finally realize they would get steamrolled in a TW. You can 'think' all you want but the fact remains
Sin is useless in TW0 -
HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well I can understand how you feel about your archer. But trust me the situation as wiz is even worse because with an archer you at least can get 5 aps which a caster cant. For the delta issue you are right the seeker has become no1 tank in delta with vortex and i would rate the DD order for delta now seeker ->psy -->archer -> wiz. But luckily you will still get a squad for that because people go for 2 different DD classes here. When it comes to PvP
in TW i fear archers more than sins because they have awesome range and with an endgame weapon it is like normal hits from max range on a target ->tab next target ... of course a sin with bow could do the same but the sin doesnt have stunning arrow and the range is smaller. so in terms of mass pvp its Psy/Arch -->wiz -- > rest
In 1v1 pvp sins **** all classes because they are completely OP.
But even if your class can no longer be considered one of the top classes archer is still fun to play and it is very vesatile in its use. So if you wanna pwn roll a fish and if you wanna something strong new roll earthbound.
Sin bow damage is horrible (as is any other classes bow damage) given the fact they lack the mastery. Also, 5aps isnt mandatory for pve, ask your faction or friends list and then all you have to do is find a tank/cleric like any other dungeon (referring to Nirvy ofc)
And end game, Wizards can become ungodly killing machines with more than twice my physical defense and 3x my elemental defense. It's given that the new classes are all unbalanced as is, but with a similarly refined Archer and a similarly refined Wizard the wizard wins every time in dph, defenses and of course useful control skills. Sleep and Seal > 3-4.5 second stun. Wings of Grace does nothing against those, so its whoever hits first wins and since Sleep casting time < Stun arrow time, a Wizard will win if they are in range. Archer's advantage is range. Sure I may kill you with a lucky crit in 2-4 hits, but when I'm a one shot its a bit redundant.
tl;dr: Ranged users whoever strikes first generally wins lest the opponent is better geared.
And yes, sins are pretty useless later on in TW. I imagine with around 10k p def, a charm, crabs and a couple immune pots you could survive a lot of sins (Focus fire ftw).Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451
Retired from PWI.
b:bye0 -
ProtocoI - Harshlands wrote: »I can gaurantee with my tactics, I could win a defensive TW only with sins and an offensive one with just tideborns. But again, It would take more than an ignorant "it can't be done" look on your face to pull it off.
People are so blind on this game and even then what makes it worse is that they swear they were right. They said the same thing when I said sins would solo endgame when they first came out, now look b:chuckle
And I guarantee that I could win any TW with only clerics. 14 of which are stated for HA, 10 use a debuff nv bow, and one that uses a sword. However I shall not explain how this works as clearly you people are blind and haven't thought of it hard enough b:bye0 -
Archers are all-around balanced class: with 5 APS and +10Deicides easy for me to find fast Nirvana squads to make money, I use STR tome, so almost pure DEX for TW, where archers kick a$$ from the distance: it was fun leveling my archer, now at endgame TWs is what I play for, for the most time0
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HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »a sin with bow could do the same but the sin doesnt have stunning arrow and the range is smaller.
bow archers has at least a range of 32. bow sin has a range of 20... they'll get popped by any caster before they can fire off an arrow.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »of course a sin with bow could do the same but the sin doesnt have stunning arrow and the range is smaller.
That's another thing that always bugged me why sins can use our bows and have our crit rate but we can't use dags sorta lame lol b:thanks
Anyhow thanks everyone for your input
/now please continue discussion b:laugh0 -
ProtocoI - Harshlands wrote: »Lmao you're wrong about that last remark, sins do as much in tw as archers do in pk. People are just too ignorant or lazy to figure out how like I did a while ago, End of discussion
Which is.....very little.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sin bow damage is horrible (as is any other classes bow damage) given the fact they lack the mastery. Also, 5aps isnt mandatory for pve, ask your faction or friends list and then all you have to do is find a tank/cleric like any other dungeon (referring to Nirvy ofc)
And end game, Wizards can become ungodly killing machines with more than twice my physical defense and 3x my elemental defense. It's given that the new classes are all unbalanced as is, but with a similarly refined Archer and a similarly refined Wizard the wizard wins every time in dph, defenses and of course useful control skills. Sleep and Seal > 3-4.5 second stun. Wings of Grace does nothing against those, so its whoever hits first wins and since Sleep casting time < Stun arrow time, a Wizard will win if they are in range. Archer's advantage is range. Sure I may kill you with a lucky crit in 2-4 hits, but when I'm a one shot its a bit redundant.
tl;dr: Ranged users whoever strikes first generally wins lest the opponent is better geared.
And yes, sins are pretty useless later on in TW. I imagine with around 10k p def, a charm, crabs and a couple immune pots you could survive a lot of sins (Focus fire ftw).
yes 5 aps isnt mandatory but when you look at squads for nirvana and TT 3-x ... people demand for 5 aps because of the insane dmg. So even if an archer isnt as good DD as a sin with fists the dmg output is still a lot higher compared to that any caster class can do. I dont got a problem finding nirvi since im in an awesome faction but if you talk about random squads and pm as psy or wiz for a nirvi run they dont even answer.
I never suggested sins to use bows I just said that they also can do it and even if they dont have the mastery if they wear a +12 refined bow their hits still hurt.
For the wiz vs archer
use winged shell to prevent 1 shots from wiz
well sleep ->undine ->force of will -> ulti = dead archer works yes but requires 2 sparks and sleep has 2 MINUTES cooldown so basically there is 1 controlskill fow ( demon wiz have more like 20%chance stun on stonerain but they are all not reliable enough to be listed here)
especially in TW your range advantage is huge wiz = 28.5m with sage skills archer is 30m+ easily with some weapons even more
you have the chance to interrupt channeling when an arrow hits the wiz.
I think both classes are evened out and you are right 1 will kill the other if you catch your enemy unprepared.
And yes new classes are unbalanced but I think at least in the normal PvE environment archer is still better of than wiz. Moreover to get an archer build working the amount of refining you have to do is less compared to the wiz because a good refined bow works wonders on an archer while refining LA will only help limiting the pain of wearing the armor type. So another advantage from being archer over wiz is that it is probably cheaper0 -
DeathenShada, i know your pain. Our server is OVER RUN With Sins, Which 90% of the people here do not know (Not saying you are dumb, but simply saying that you may not play our server) Stay as a archer, They are a great class and can do a lot more then what you think. After all our server needs some Archers who don't cash shop there butts off. Also, Archers shine above 70, I recommend getting 75 and then choosing weather to quit your archer and play a sin. Just remember, Every faction that has land on our server, Has at least 1 85+ Archer who TWs.
Have a good one, And if you ever want to talk to me in game i am usually there just pm me ^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Therefore, Shigofumi0 -
HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »yes 5 aps isnt mandatory but when you look at squads for nirvana and TT 3-x ... people demand for 5 aps because of the insane dmg. So even if an archer isnt as good DD as a sin with fists the dmg output is still a lot higher compared to that any caster class can do. I dont got a problem finding nirvi since im in an awesome faction but if you talk about random squads and pm as psy or wiz for a nirvi run they dont even answer.
I never suggested sins to use bows I just said that they also can do it and even if they dont have the mastery if they wear a +12 refined bow their hits still hurt.
For the wiz vs archer
use winged shell to prevent 1 shots from wiz
well sleep ->undine ->force of will -> ulti = dead archer works yes but requires 2 sparks and sleep has 2 MINUTES cooldown so basically there is 1 controlskill fow ( demon wiz have more like 20%chance stun on stonerain but they are all not reliable enough to be listed here)
especially in TW your range advantage is huge wiz = 28.5m with sage skills archer is 30m+ easily with some weapons even more
you have the chance to interrupt channeling when an arrow hits the wiz.
I think both classes are evened out and you are right 1 will kill the other if you catch your enemy unprepared.
And yes new classes are unbalanced but I think at least in the normal PvE environment archer is still better of than wiz. Moreover to get an archer build working the amount of refining you have to do is less compared to the wiz because a good refined bow works wonders on an archer while refining LA will only help limiting the pain of wearing the armor type. So another advantage from being archer over wiz is that it is probably cheaper
Yes, sins and aps have a higher dps than bow archers/wizards/psys BUT this in no way negates the DDing power of caster types. Pve is painfully easy, and sure random fails that cashshopped to 5aps wont invite you to a nirvy, but any respectable player will. (idk why you ever would spend so much, pve is too easy to need 5aps; pvp needs more defenses lol something HA99 orns wont give you). Lols with the extent of some bms/sins skills in pve Ive started to taking psys and venos instead. Sure there is the rare really good sin, but I have yet to meet a bm that impresses me with skill usage (aside from one poorly geared sage bm in FC long ago)
Also, I know wizard well since I used to have one on HL and I have squadded my brother's wizard for 100 levels. We keep similarly refined gear. He can tank better than me, he has 300ish more p defense and 3x my elemental defense self buffed. Same refines +4/+5 same shards garnets/cits. Difference is Stone Barrier which wizards pwn with. Sure, I get aggro alot easier but that just means I have to manage it more. Do I want to take aggro from the demon sin/bm or barb? Not really but my crit rate/dph will generally do so at some point.
Idk perhaps its just my bias being that there are so few wizards and they tend to be pretty decent players compared to the amount of fails the archer class produces (could be slight bias towards my brother and other famed DW wizards though). If you compare the archer fail ratio to any other class its got to be top 5 if not top 3 ijs. Aps and demon spark deicides doesnt impress me random demon archer. When my barb hits 100, best believe archers will be rare in my squads if they wont use a bow lol. Sage pure dex DD seems pretty superior to Demon fist build (140ish str which so many DW archers have for some terrible reason).
btw I love my archer and wouldnt trade it for another class (cept maybe a wiz if my bro didnt main one) but I really hate fist archers and aps craze. Does 5.0 on your archer make you the best melee DD available? No. 2nd best? No. Bow does nearly as much and more in shorter fights i.e. mobs and pvp (dead before melee range) because bosses are trash lol. Also, wizzies get alot of flak they dont deserve. They are amazing b:victory
tl;dr Fist archer for the fail. Its the equivalent of LA Wizzys. Everyone thinks its a good idea, but its really not. Want LA? roll a sin/archer. Want fists? BM lols. Want dps? Sin sin sin.
No class is outdated. No class is useless. Especially in TW.Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451
Retired from PWI.
b:bye0 -
True that most sins are useless in tw, but only if that sin can't afford def/atk charms/hp charm & pots to survive or is an average low geared sin. A sin may be a close range melee w/ light armor but if you look at it this way, we have two 35m range on both teleport skill (lvl 11 skill), free 60atk lvls(65if sage), 80 w/ frenzy if you're crazy enough, 89 w/ full 4 socket dot build, 100+atk lvls w/ r.9 will add another 2x dmg, also one of the teleport skill being spammable quite often means you can move around anywhere faster than any other class. This means you can do crazy dph aoe combos such as... starting 40meter away; 3xspark (for more dmg, or save the chi to fit powerdash in to the combo, walk 5meter to get in Lvl.11 shadow jump range, inner harmony (200 chi back), teleport, pot/domain, subsea strike, earthen rift, shadow escape, shadow jump back to an ally if needed or run for cover unless that person you tele to is about to get aoe. If you can pull this off, you get 2x dmg from sparking, possibly another 2x dmg from 35% crits, possibly another 2x dmg from 20-30% zerk (2nd cast / Rank IX), 30% more dmg from subsea strike (50% if sage) & to add up those attack lvls 1.60x dmg w/ jones blessing & chill of the deep. so at the most you can do up to 9.6x-10x dmg to everyone within 8-10meter range aoe after being 35-40meters away 3 seconds ago. Ofcourse, that's an overkill scenario as if you need zerk crits to kill someone unless they're full r.9, stacked in lots of josd, or heavy armor.Talk about long range massive nuke. I was dmg testing on my 17k phy def. marrow bm, Can zerk+crit after spark for 10-13k easily & dmg testing a self buffed wizzy for 25k+, imagine that on a 5-10k defense robe/Light armor. Would be 17k+. Other than that, imagine 4.0/5.0 with windshield till target dies, teleport stun, repeat. Assassins also rely on crits, with interval 4-5.0aps, will crit atleast 2 or 3x per second. Stacked Crits are such overkill @_@
^ was off topic but since everyone that says it, obviously don't know what assassins are capable of.
To get back on topic, I still think Archers are a good class, although I had just recently started one to use my sin's gear for future tws/pk. Easiest 5.0 aps class for pve, other than fist sins, have control skills: slow/knockback/stun/freeze, long range of 30-32m won't be getting hit too much in tw if you're aware of your surroundings unless a sin sneaks in, decent defense skills for when you need it. The debuff bows are also awesome for when they proc. Can't wait for my archer to be lvl 100 b:dirty0 -
Rice_hero - Lost City wrote: »True that most sins are useless in tw,
They are certainly not useless in TW, but if you have archers assigned to keeping the front line pushed back they will automatically be taking out the sins when they appear. If you give them overlapping fields of coverage, some general awareness, veno buffs, decent separation, decent genies, and a couple alert clerics and you will have a counter-assassin force that can alse offer general defense. (Note for my peanut gallery: I am not claiming I am presenting any kind of total TW strategy.)0 -
Even better factions don't take their wizards on Nirv runs and simply gear them. There's no good reason to bring a non aps class because it's only slowing everybody down.HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »I dont got a problem finding nirvi since im in an awesome faction
I don't even...why would a sin refine a bow to +12? And of course it would hurt at +12, everything does. A bm using a +12 bow could do some damage...HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »I never suggested sins to use bows I just said that they also can do it and even if they dont have the mastery if they wear a +12 refined bow their hits still hurt.
wtf kinda combo is that? You sleep them so you can knock them back out of sleep and give them a chance to do something? Pro-tip: use FoW, undine, maybe a gush if you're feeling daring, sleep, ulti.HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »well sleep ->undine ->force of will -> ulti = dead archer
And winged shell is a non factor in endgame pvp. A regular class can pop it with a few hits, a dph class like ours can easily destroy it in one.
So I guess you never upgraded your skills to sage/demon? Or maybe mine are just special, because my range is 30mHarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »especially in TW your range advantage is huge wiz = 28.5m with sage skills archer is 30m+ easily with some weapons even more0 -
Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »tl;dr Fist archer for the fail. Its the equivalent of LA Wizzys. Everyone thinks its a good idea, but its really not. Want LA? roll a sin/archer. Want fists? BM lols. Want dps? Sin sin sin.
No class is outdated. No class is useless. Especially in TW.
What? Well it is sad to see a level 100 archer who fails to notice the value of versatility. Going by Factual information, 5 aps archers aren't fail. You sound just like an old friend of mine who would say stupid things to try to discourage me from the thought. Things like , "DPS doesn't matter". Well for those of us who don't want to roll silly fish alts and farm a bunch of HA for bms, it is an efficient way to PvE.
And no its not the equivalent of an LA wizzie. An LA wizzie has to stat extra strength and dex to wear his LA, whereas a Fist archer can remain pure dex and still be 5.0. It is a simple matter of swapping out gear pieces. The equivalent of an LA Wizzie would be maybe an HA archer, so that analogy fails.
However, I must agree on the point of archers having many fails in the class. But I can not agree that it has to do directly with 5 aps. I think it's more the R9, and people who level a TW archer alt and set it up with R9 without even knowing what their skills do.
and sage is terrible for an archer that is built for anything other than 5 aps soloing. You honestly dismiss so much crit/ burst damage potential just for that argument of "higher base damage", which is really, only slightly. I would still prefer demon even in a fist build, because our spark means we can wear better ornaments/gear while farming than we'd be forced to use if we were sage.0 -
_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »and sage is terrible for an archer that is built for anything other than 5 aps soloing. You honestly dismiss so much crit/ burst damage potential just for that argument of "higher base damage", which is really, only slightly. I would still prefer demon even in a fist build, because our spark means we can wear better ornaments/gear while farming than we'd be forced to use if we were sage.
Demons can have better bursts, but they are laggy bursts. Sages have higher dps for the early stages of combat.
Meanwhile, vit build sacrifices both crit and damage. So I think your criticisms should be directed against vit builds.0
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