Let's talk FC glitch (read first)

DivinePlume - Heavens Tear

Seems legit

VenoMKII - Harshlands

http://thekickback.com/rickroll/rickroll.php

...O ****, I was supposed to hide it wasnt I ...

Vulcanis - Dreamweaver

C-C-C-Combo broken!

Hera_aether - Sanctuary

Would someone PLEASE explain simple economics to gooners? Why do you keep suggesting PWI is making more money on hypers and charms for gooners than for people who actually play the game and then run normal FCCs to level up? Do you think only gooners use hypers and charms? Do you think through your arguments from a game economic perspective? Do you even listen to yourselves?

Again, PWI will earn MUCH more money over the lifetime of an honest player who plays for content than it will ever earn from short attention span, limited patience cheating goon glitchers who will just move on to the next MMO when they get bored after their power leveling.

I understand WHY you keep spreading inaccuracies, it's to garner support for your behavior. Just like you try to make people believe that "everyone is doing it" or "there's nothing wrong with it" or "we're not REALLY cheating because PWI failed to fix rubber banding" or "we have a RIGHT to cheat because there are dreaded SINS".

It doesn't make you right, and people don't even buy it anymore.

Atrocious - Heavens Tear

Hera_aether - Sanctuary wrote: »

Would someone PLEASE explain simple economics to gooners? Why do you keep suggesting PWI is making more money on hypers and charms for gooners than for people who actually play the game and then run normal FCCs to level up? Do you think only gooners use hypers and charms? Do you think through your arguments from a game economic perspective? Do you even listen to yourselves?

Again, PWI will earn MUCH more money over the lifetime of an honest player who plays for content than it will ever earn from short attention span, limited patience cheating goon glitchers who will just move on to the next MMO when they get bored after their power leveling.

I understand WHY you keep spreading inaccuracies, it's to garner support for your behavior. Just like you try to make people believe that "everyone is doing it" or "there's nothing wrong with it" or "we're not REALLY cheating because PWI failed to fix rubber banding" or "we have a RIGHT to cheat because there are dreaded SINS".

It doesn't make you right, and people don't even buy it anymore.

Eh~ I'll be honest here. Goons that are "sold" "the right way" are done for roughly 150 mill from level 1-100, and it takes about 2 hours of hyper time.

Now. From levels 1-100 leveling properly you *may* spend 0 cash dollars. You *may* also spend a lot of cash dollars. Depending on your play style. On gear, repairs, pots, teleports, et cetera, from 1-90, you can only really spend 80-300m for ->necessities<- 300m being an extreme case, someone who teleports absolutely everywhere, repairs gears when totally broken, goes through excessive pots, et cetera. Include an extra 200m on the high side for cash shop items, charms, mounts, flyers. Packs and addictive game-play/gambling behaviors not included or considered here.

It's at level 100+ that PWI starts to make real cash off its players. REFINES. RANK. GEAR. COOL STUFF. TT99s cost 20m per piece at a minimum. TT90s can be farmed extremely quickly and are fairly cheap. Rank 8 alone is 72 gold during a sale, and upwards of 150 mill during non-sale times. Rank 9? Forget about it. You can spend over two thousand dollars and still not be satisfied with your gear. Nirvana? A crapload of money.

Refines cost a lot as well. To get anything past +8 you have to spend 25 dollars per plus. PER PIECE.

AND level 100+'s buy really cool mounts and really cool flyers so they look like they've been there a long time. They also tend to buy a crapload of fash, don't ask me why.

Gooners that do not have higher level alts that found a squad via doing goons for a high level toon, typically pay. They pay an insane amount. The ones that do not pay are generally older players who have gotten really ***** bored and tired of questing and know they need a stupid effing sin to grind with or they will burn out on this game altogether. Then they tend to go on to make other characters. Cleric, archer, veno, whatever, whatever.

Now. Each goon'd character is another coin sink. If they're getting TT99 that's a minimum of 150m. Add refines, say to +4 on all equips, that's another 25m. If they go for rank 8 chest piece pencil in another 65 mill if we're in a sale period, 130 mill otherwise. Oh we want at least +5 on our weps that's an extra 6m. Then there's Nirvana. Add an extra 250m for wep, 100m for pants, and anywhere up to 800m for rerolls if you want specific stats. (We're at 596 mill on the low end, if someone wanted +10 to all gears upwards of 1,130 mill, all inclusive.)

NOT TO EVEN MENTION r9. Which in itself is well over a thousand gold.

So. Instead of explaining economics to the gooners, I find that I must explain economics to you. The players that are OLD and get FREE goons have likely already SPENT the amount we're discussing for lvls 1-90, probably multiple times. The ones that BUY goons are STILL putting in roughly the same amount.

I'm not saying any of this is right or OK, I'm just explaining to you why it was not fixed immediately.

If ever there was a day we found a way to actually make PWI lose money, you better believe that glitch would be fixed within a heartbeat. This one has not lost them anything, has drawn in several new players of a wealthy variety, and so has been overlooked to the point of shamefulness.

It's the cash cow that never meant to be for them. Suddenly all of the rich players that otherwise wouldn't have wasted their time leveling up alts have all their alts handed to them, ready to spend craploads of money on.

Sorry hon but really it's a no-contest situation. It should be fixed asap. It doesn't hurt the game. It just makes people angry.

Hera_aether - Sanctuary

Atrocious - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Eh~ I'll be honest here. (snip lots of good stuff) Sorry hon but really it's a no-contest situation. It should be fixed asap. It doesn't hurt the game. It just makes people angry.

There is a finite limit to the already bored players in the game who might choose to goon one or more alts, and possibly buy new high-end end-game gear if they're not sharing what they already have with their noobs.

Perhaps the MOST serious problem with the exploit is that there is very little beginning or mid-game anymore. Trying to get a bh, get help with quests, forget about it. It's becoming a vast wasteland out there, as if the map wasn't already severely underpopulated. You can't keep an MMO alive without new blood, and you can't retain new blood if there's no way beyond the CC method of making it through to end game.

On Momaganon, the 3 factions with the most people and highest levels have focused almost solely on oracling, then zhenning, then gooning their members to 100+. Which, by the way, forget the standard argument about "those 15 stat points don't mean anything". On a new server it means a LOT for 3 factions to have so many gooned members that factions without are at a serious disadvantage. But I digress.

What I started to say is, these factions don't help with quests. They don't help with BH. They barely help with culti and FB. Their members are under such pressure to powerlevel it's unreal. Many, having reached 101 in 3 weeks, have already left the server, no doubt out of sheer boredom. I can't count the number of people whining on WC or in common in arch about how bored they are. How there's nothing to do.

THIS is what we have to look forward to in the game. There literally won't BE any players invested in actually playing game content, spending money for gear from 20 on up, and charms, and wine and crazy stone and on and on and on. Because MMOs are above all social environments and activities, and when you don't have any peers, you don't have much socializing going on.

So yeah, you're right in that people who are spending whatever ridiculous amounts of money on end game gear may temporarily be creating quite an economic blip on the PWi income chart. But boy oh boy, how that drop is gonna come. It's simply not a sustainable picture.

Atrocious - Heavens Tear

I totally agree, up to a point.

What I honestly think is going to happen is this:

They will fix goon glitch soon (a month or two).
They will then raise level cap around December.

With the raised level cap there ~will~ be easier ways for high levels to get exp. Somehow low levels will probably be able to exploit this, as a replacement for the goon glitch.

There will also be several new coin sinks with new gear, "new" content, etc.

To be honest there is 0 reason for them not to allow low levels to level up fast.

There is still tons of content after level 100, enough daily quests to keep you occupied all day, and based on the current model we *are* attracting new players- and it is the PLAYERBASE pressuring each other to cash shop to level up fast and get good gear.

I'm sure there are several people who downloaded the game, FF'd to 101, bought gear, then rerolled a noob and played through the levels when they had nothing else to do, or so they had a chance to see the game.

What will kill the game eventually is this: TW will die.

All the highest paying cash shoppers will eventually migrate into one solid guild. It will claim the map and no one will be able to compete. That one guild will be full to capacity. It's members will slowly quit for a lack of challenge/entertainment (yet still be reachable via Facebook, forums, phones etc etc should some little guild try to attack) and the game will die because there is no longer an appeal to get to 100+ and compete among the greats for a spot in the glory light.

I suspect we have less than two years before this game is truly dead for good. It ~will~ dwindle up to that point, experience server mergers, possible map resets that draw a few people back but not many because of the cooler games available by that time. The few people left will probably stay for the very last anniversary hoping for something truly awesome to revive the game, and then quit (sadly, for good this time) when they are disappointed for the very last time they can handle.

The challenge in finding help for BHs/Bosses/FFs is null. Using a WC will generally get you help if you ask nicely. Players that QQ don't get rewarded. Players that are funny/cheerful do. That's just the natural human reaction. You attract more flies with honey, or whatever.
To make friends you have to be a friend. I'm sure there are plenty of people on the new servers who are all sitting there going "no one is ever on here doing BHs/whatever/whatever." Well, squad up and do them together, like we do on HT. Friend everyone cool at low level and stick with them through to the top. Introduce them to everyone you meet and meet everyone they do. You now have a network. Expand on that network and use it. Keep it updated. It is your ally.

I understand that people have a hard time finding other people, but really~ it's kind of a personal thing. There are ->thousands<- of players. Most of them are bored. Do the math.

Hera_aether - Sanctuary

Atrocious - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The challenge in finding help for BHs/Bosses/FFs is null. Using a WC will generally get you help if you ask nicely. Players that QQ don't get rewarded. Players that are funny/cheerful do. That's just the natural human reaction. You attract more flies with honey, or whatever..

Yeah, I can see you haven't spent much if any time on the two new servers. The platform is bare, WC won't even get you an FB at least half the time. Often 30 minutes will go by without a WC of any sort. And of course there aren't thousands of players.

As the servers gradually populate, we are seeing encouraging signs that things will pick up, and in the meantime there is something quite attractive about strolling through west arch with no lag whatsoever.

Personally I would have no trouble doing my bh, if i ever had time to do it, as I'd just duo it. Most of my playing time is taken up with helping my guildies do their tasks.

My point was/is, when powerleveling becomes the only way to play the game, and 95% of game content/storyline is devalued to the point it becomes unplayable, the game is doomed. I don't think we're there yet, but we're headed there awfully fast.

Atrocious - Heavens Tear

Unless they remove content there will always be an alternative method to leveling up.

There is still questing and solo grinding, squad grinding, and zhenning. I zhenned a cleric from 55-85 before BH's and FF as a leveling method even existed. I quested and solo grinded my barb to 90. I used to make alts and quest them up to 40-50 just to see what the class was like.

I met a lot of people along the way doing exactly the same thing I was doing. Playing the game. If you're having trouble finding people on those servers you could drag some friends over from you main server, or do it the old fashioned way until you have met enough people to build aforementioned network.

I don't really... think the new servers were a good idea... but that's just an opinion. We've seen since FF selling started that new classes take only days to hit 100, why would you open a brand new server when... Oh, wait ~ wait, money. Those two servers were just a coin sink. Now people will pay a grip to be the best on a brand new server for a shot at the glory spotlight. Those people probably already were pretty pwn on their own servers to have the know how and resources to do it all over again... so yep. Just another money pit.

If you want to play there you'll probably have to wait for new players who don't fall into the above category. It was the same when Harshlands and Dreamweaver opened. It was the same when Raging Tides and Archosaur opened. The top players from the previous servers jumped, usually as a group, and raced to the top to own the map.

Let's be real here for a sec: TW drives this game. There may be players who are in it for sport but those aren't the ones who are +10ing all their gear and doing it multiple times. The people in TW factions are. They're doing it over and over and over again. They're pushing themselves and each other to be the best, make a new class and make it the best. It's a competition.

PvE-only players generally don't spend as much money because it is unnecessary for them to do so. They can survive perfectly well with less than epic gear. They generally have far less need to level up quickly, so can take their time to farm instead of "charge it."

So I think the older players have stayed with their original servers this time instead of jumping to the new ones just to "check it out" as has happened in the past. We wont fall for that this time.

So just be patient and quest a lot and talk to everyone you meet until you have friends enough to schedule BHs. Set up times to log on if you have to.

Meh it does suck but I've fallen for it before too and had to learn my lesson.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Hera_aether - Sanctuary wrote: »

There is a finite limit to the already bored players in the game who might choose to goon one or more alts, and possibly buy new high-end end-game gear if they're not sharing what they already have with their noobs.

Perhaps the MOST serious problem with the exploit is that there is very little beginning or mid-game anymore. Trying to get a bh, get help with quests, forget about it. It's becoming a vast wasteland out there, as if the map wasn't already severely underpopulated. You can't keep an MMO alive without new blood, and you can't retain new blood if there's no way beyond the CC method of making it through to end game.

On Momaganon, the 3 factions with the most people and highest levels have focused almost solely on oracling, then zhenning, then gooning their members to 100+. Which, by the way, forget the standard argument about "those 15 stat points don't mean anything". On a new server it means a LOT for 3 factions to have so many gooned members that factions without are at a serious disadvantage. But I digress.

What I started to say is, these factions don't help with quests. They don't help with BH. They barely help with culti and FB. Their members are under such pressure to powerlevel it's unreal. Many, having reached 101 in 3 weeks, have already left the server, no doubt out of sheer boredom. I can't count the number of people whining on WC or in common in arch about how bored they are. How there's nothing to do.

THIS is what we have to look forward to in the game. There literally won't BE any players invested in actually playing game content, spending money for gear from 20 on up, and charms, and wine and crazy stone and on and on and on. Because MMOs are above all social environments and activities, and when you don't have any peers, you don't have much socializing going on.

So yeah, you're right in that people who are spending whatever ridiculous amounts of money on end game gear may temporarily be creating quite an economic blip on the PWi income chart. But boy oh boy, how that drop is gonna come. It's simply not a sustainable picture.

How is this any different from selling heads and regular hyper FCC?

People were bored before, they are bored now. They've rushed to 100 before, they rush to 100 now. How is this any different? They are amused for a slightly shorter amount of time because they reached 100 faster?

There have been no beginning or mid game for a year. I've played an entire account worth of alts and it's been like this since months ago. Even before hypers, there was an ORACLE race if you remember, when DW/HL came out. People still buy scarlet fruits for up to 1/2 a mil each.

Maybe if the game was more fun pre-100, people would consider playing it more. The game that they're trying to make it now is entirely inconsistent with how the game was designed. The game started out as a grinder. Look at how you'd get rep, exp, etc. When PWI tried to make the game less of a grinder, they should have updated the quests to reflect that as well. Now all you have is a very tedious and grind-filled pre-100 or the alternative, which is power leveling up.

That aside, what you actually want is for them to cut out Hypers from FCC period, which I said if PWI did that in the first place, none of this would be a problem.

Daedallus - Sanctuary

Bumping this one b:kiss

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

I just have to pop in and say, LMAO that they specifically stated we would have no 2x until the glitch was fixed, and then gave us 2x without fixing the glitch. Stop telling us one thing and doing another, ijs.

Not that it makes a difference with 2x big enough to care about. I agree with others on that. It just amused me.

krittycat

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I just have to pop in and say, LMAO that they specifically stated we would have no 2x until the glitch was fixed, and then gave us 2x without fixing the glitch. Stop telling us one thing and doing another, ijs.

Not that it makes a difference with 2x big enough to care about. I agree with others on that. It just amused me.

Don't start spreading rumors. They never specifically said 2x wouldn't be activated while the glitch was still in play, they actually said they were reluctant to activate it. There is a big difference there, and the number of players pushing them to do something for the old compensation, 300k likes, and the anniversary apparently overwhelmed that reluctance.

Daedallus - Sanctuary

Seems to me it's not the first time they say one thing and do the exact opposite, IJS

\//eyron - Heavens Tear26

KrittyCat wrote: »

Don't start spreading rumors. They never specifically said 2x wouldn't be activated while the glitch was still in play, they actually said they were reluctant to activate it. There is a big difference there, and the number of players pushing them to do something for the old compensation, 300k likes, and the anniversary apparently overwhelmed that reluctance.

Yes they did. I'll take my time finding the post when I get my account back.

Edit: Damn you were right Kritty.

Barunaa - Heavens Tear

KrittyCat wrote: »

Don't start spreading rumors. They never specifically said 2x wouldn't be activated while the glitch was still in play, they actually said they were reluctant to activate it. There is a big difference there, and the number of players pushing them to do something for the old compensation, 300k likes, and the anniversary apparently overwhelmed that reluctance.

i know ur a mod kritty, but u really need to stop sucking up and realize the obvious errors the GMs are making. there has been no punishment what so ever to any of these ppl and this glitch has been going on for how long now?

Daedallus - Sanctuary

Bumpety bump

Daedallus - Sanctuary

Bump b:victory

BaldwinBoy - Dreamweaver

Bottom line - they never cared about whether the glitch is exploited or this thread or anyone's concerns - look how quickly they changed the Official Announcement on SP pking yet left the "bannable" status of goonz glitching hidden somewhere in this thread. That my friends speaks volumes. This thread should die along with any remaining collective faith we have in PWI.

Sachimi - Sanctuary

Daedallus - Sanctuary wrote: »

Bump b:victory

Holy **** you are annoying. Are you that jealous of others or just need attention? Get level up instead of QQing in forums

Massad - Harshlands

BaldwinBoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Bottom line - they never cared about whether the glitch is exploited or this thread or anyone's concerns - look how quickly they changed the Official Announcement on SP pking yet left the "bannable" status of goonz glitching hidden somewhere in this thread. That my friends speaks volumes. This thread should die along with any remaining collective faith we have in PWI.

Agreed but someone keeps bumping... Isn't there a rule against dble posts or necros... (even though the necro rule is over 30 days)


I want to forget that I was ever told it was bannable so my sin can be 105 by this time next week IJSb:victory

kengohari

Bump.

Decus - Dreamweaver

I am still surprised that this isn't closed even though it falls under the criteria for thread closure. =/

Ezehc - Lost City

decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i Am Still Surprised That This Isn't Closed Even Though It Falls Under The Criteria For Thread Closure. =/

Omg Derping Switching Integral And Derivatives.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Ezehc - Lost City wrote: »

Omg Derping Switching Integral And Derivatives.

Differentiation under the Integral >:(

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Hi 105, approve this http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1181611 if you want have some fun. b:thanks

Psytrac - Dreamweaver

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am still surprised that this isn't closed even though it falls under the criteria for thread closure. =/

under which part exactly?

Lt_Destroyer - Heavens Tear

KrittyCat wrote: »

There is a glitch in FC, and that much has been acknowledged by frankieraye. However, discussing how they are going to fix it would encourage those who are currently using it to get it in a few last times before the fix, and would possibly allow others to exploit the glitch who wouldn't have heard of it otherwise. Because of this, I don't honestly think you'll get a GM response to that effect. However, I will leave this thread open, and let frankie know that you guys are looking for answers. If there are any posts about how to perform the glitch, they will be removed.

wat an assinie thing to say..go ahead and suport the glitch wile its here but dont tell ppl how to do it..lmfao wtf is wrong with this guy..musta been 1 of the ppl for the idea of PK in SP..lol

Decus - Dreamweaver

Psytrac - Dreamweaver wrote: »

under which part exactly?

Enjoy.

Daedallus - Sanctuary

Sachimi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Holy **** you are annoying. Are you that jealous of others or just need attention? Get level up instead of QQing in forums

Thank you b:victory

I'm jealous AND need attencion too, thank you for offering b:kiss

Did you ever hear the golden rule? ( when you don't know something, ask?)

I still don't know what happens to goonies and I wanna know.

Thank you very much for your patience Sachimi