Lol pay 2 win

GhostDuck - Harshlands

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh boy, a "PWI R F2P U R CAN DO ANYTHING!111ONE" response. Well played.

The point of that post, since it obviously went way above Fuzzy's furry head, was to iterate that regardless of whether or not you can buy it with coins, directly buying gear from the cash shop is taboo in the F2P MMO industry, not to mention MMO's in general.

Why? Thank you for asking, Fuzzy, I figured all you were doing was being a PWI sycophant in your last post. I appreciate your forthcoming behaviour. Doing this basically eliminates the necessity and even the incentive of farming for gear using content throughout the game. If you wonder why nobody ever farms a Forest Wisdom in OUF, as one of more than several dozen examples, you have your answer. It's because it's available by purchasing items in the cash shop. This is spread throughout the game.

Now, before you go off and lick some more PWI boots, understand that it's utterly pointless having content if one pushes people toward a direction elsewhere. In this case, it's cash shopping, even if people aren't spending real money, it's cash shopping. Why bother slowly doing chrono and cultivations, or killing phantom of grudges, or metal jackelopardites? Why go into OUF or VOS or Moonshade/DT at all? The extremely easily attainable cash shop gear has eliminated the use of most of the game's content. Again, this is what I think the OP is leaning toward, and coincidentally, why it tends to be taboo -- ruining your own content pushing people toward being cash shop merchants and farmers, content which already is as endangered as your panda brethren is, as far as the "ongoing" part of it goes, is quite a brilliant idea, amirite?

Now, I wonder if Fuzzy can give me a retort about how all things are possible and how wonderful it is to be able to play for free. I would be quite thrilled, and it would, without a doubt, match my expectations entirely.

Exactly, and to expand on this, because no one bothers to farm anything now days, new players come here and see no one around in any of their areas, no way to get to end game without spending real cash, and if they miraculously stay and decide to try and 'farm' it, they have zero help doing so since no one does those quests/mobs/dungeons. With no new players coming in, when the old ones die out, the game dies out

Zenorx - Harshlands

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh boy, a "PWI R F2P U R CAN DO ANYTHING!111ONE" response. Well played.

The point of that post, since it obviously went way above Fuzzy's furry head, was to iterate that regardless of whether or not you can buy it with coins, directly buying gear from the cash shop is taboo in the F2P MMO industry, not to mention MMO's in general.

Why? Thank you for asking, Fuzzy, I figured all you were doing was being a PWI sycophant in your last post. I appreciate your forthcoming behaviour. Doing this basically eliminates the necessity and even the incentive of farming for gear using content throughout the game. If you wonder why nobody ever farms a Forest Wisdom in OUF, as one of more than several dozen examples, you have your answer. It's because it's available by purchasing items in the cash shop. This is spread throughout the game.

Now, before you go off and lick some more PWI boots, understand that it's utterly pointless having content if one pushes people toward a direction elsewhere. In this case, it's cash shopping, even if people aren't spending real money, it's cash shopping. Why bother slowly doing chrono and cultivations, or killing phantom of grudges, or metal jackelopardites? Why go into OUF or VOS or Moonshade/DT at all? The extremely easily attainable cash shop gear has eliminated the use of most of the game's content. Again, this is what I think the OP is leaning toward, and coincidentally, why it tends to be taboo -- ruining your own content pushing people toward being cash shop merchants and farmers, content which already is as endangered as your panda brethren is, as far as the "ongoing" part of it goes, is quite a brilliant idea, amirite?

Now, I wonder if Fuzzy can give me a retort about how all things are possible and how wonderful it is to be able to play for free. I would be quite thrilled, and it would, without a doubt, match my expectations entirely.

I agree with points both you and Fuzzy have made, but yeah, why would you go into all those random instances if the gear you can from the cash shop, is so much better, not to mention takes so much less effort to get.

You know that belt they recently put into packs, do you really think anyone is going to do the event that rewards it for high performance when they can just get it for ~$50? I doubt it.

_Petal_ - Harshlands

Hi, my name is (everybody who is from Harshlands knows my Psychic. Hint: She's purple).
^.^ I'm level 94 (rounded up, damnit) and I am 100% F2P!

I'm currently in +5 TT90 Green gear. I'm working on my Eden Cape, Cube Badge, and eventually Nirvana because I refuse to be a rank sheep.

And I approve of this message. I didn't get ANYWHERE close to where I am today with giving this greedy company anything. I intend to stay that way until they show they care. Which...they don't.

Am I a factor? Heck no. Am I laughed at? A lot. Am I oneshot? Almost all the time.
Do I care?

HELLZ NO!

This is a game. I'm not paying for it. I'm enjoying it.

EDIT: By the way, I paid for all my sh*t by FARMING HERBS AND MAKING WINES.

Zenorx - Harshlands

_Petal_ - Harshlands wrote: »

I didn't get ANYWHERE close to where I am today with giving this greedy company anything. I intend to stay that way until they show they care. Which...they don't.

Am I a factor? Heck no. Am I laughed at? A lot. Am I oneshot? Almost all the time.
Do I care?

HELLZ NO!

This is a game. I'm not paying for it. I'm enjoying it.

What she said, although I prefer merchanting :P

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

_Petal_ - Harshlands wrote: »

This is a game. I'm not paying for it. I'm enjoying it.[/COLOR][/U][/B]

Very true. However, many people play differently. While one person farms mats for coin, someone may farm TT, Nirvana, herbs, merch, etc. Most players that are into the game, but not all of course, are into leveling and gaining good gear. That's the point of the game, right? For most anyways, the point of the game is to reach end-game level, and get some end-game gear.

If you don't CS, and work very hard for 2 1/2 years of farming instances non-stop, you'll be somewhere around where I am. Decent gear, decent level. Nirvana axes, full TT99 set w/ good refines/shards, a level 100 BM w/ decides, etc.

The problem is this... You can play and be on your merry way, and be happy without CSing. But when you get into Cube, TW, PK, or what have you... You'll notice the major difference between the hard working non-CSing player, the casual CSing player, and the major CSer. The difference is huge.

Personally, I'm satisfied with my gear, and what I've completed. I've done great things, completed everything the game really offers, and done it again on my BM. However, after all my hard work... I still can be in Cube, PK, TW, etc and get 2 shot by someone who has played a month and CS'ed some +12 gear. Where is the fairness in this? Sure, you feel great when a player like this doesn't know their class, and your able to kill them. However what about when they press "F1 - Gush", on their keyboard, and one or two shot you? Still feel good? Maybe, right? It depends on what kind of player you are. If you are satisfied with being killed by someone that's done no in-game work for what they have acquired, played maybe a month, and when you add all your gear combined, it won't even equal one piece of theirs, in terms of coin-worth.

It's not fair. While most would say just quit, I find myself still playing. Not because I like the management, nor the way they **** over players, and lie in our faces. I play because I have many friends, and still enjoy what is left of this **** poor game. I'll probably keep playing, until I get so fed up, I get my account banned from harassment of a GM, or something like that. I feel the community needs to step up, and say enough is enough. When they do, I'll be here guys... I'll boycott, yell, scream, swear, and whatever with you guys. Until then, I'm a voice in the darkness... Screaming about issues that people look over.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

It's no problem. that PWI put medals to cashop. THE PROBLEM IS they lie to us. THE PROBLEM IS they don't care about players base and their opinion. For PWI is just main aim to earn money at any cost. They became TOO GREEDY.
PWI need still more and more new players, BECAUSE old player leaving. What do you think. How many players(included me) is playing more than 2 and 1/2 years? Not many. Two years ago I had lot of friends in my friend list. Then I stopped to play for about 8 months. When I came back, from my friend list was online just 1!!! friend. 99% of my friend quit the game. That's why pwi need still more and more new players, because old ones quitting, when they realize how pwi care about them. This is the biggest problem for PWI, because players base is NOT infinite.

Teiw - Sanctuary

"People you don't get. It's no problem. that PWI put medals to cashop. THE PROBLEM IS they lie to us. THE PROBLEM IS they don't care about players base and their opinion. For PWI is just main aim to earn money at any cost. They became TOO GREEDY.
PWI need still more and more new players, BECAUSE old player leaving. What do you think. How many players(included me) is playing more than 2 and 1/2 years? Not many. Two years ago I had lot of friends in my friend list. Then I stopped to play for about 8 months. When I came back, from my friend list was online just 1!!! friend. 99% of my friend quit the game. That's why pwi need still more and more new players, because old ones quitting, when they realize how pwi care about them. This is the biggest problem for PWI, because players base is NOT infinite."

You already posted that as Mortal_Kiss in the R.i.p. PWI thread.

And 8 months is a really long time. If I left for 8 months, my friends would delete me off FL to make more roomb:chuckle

LovesTragedy - Lost City

*charges some more money*

b:laugh

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Teiw - Sanctuary wrote: »

And 8 months is a really long time. If I left for 8 months, my friends would delete me off FL to make more roomb:chuckle

Probably. But I didn't see them in game anymore. Even when I ask in their factions, they told me, they quit. This game is living just from new players, because the majority old players quit.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Probably. But I didn't see them in game anymore. Even when I ask in their factions, they told me, they quit. This game is living just from new players, because the majority old players quit.

Playerbase is dwindling.

fuzzywuzz

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh boy, a "PWI R F2P U R CAN DO ANYTHING!111ONE" response. Well played.

The point of that post, since it obviously went way above Fuzzy's furry head, was to iterate that regardless of whether or not you can buy it with coins, directly buying gear from the cash shop is taboo in the F2P MMO industry, not to mention MMO's in general.

Why? Thank you for asking, Fuzzy,

Match your expectations? Probably not possible since you seem to think that the CS'ing your gear somehowe diminishes ones pride in having farmed it, or for that matter the effectiveness of the gear itself.

Again....

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why? Thank you for asking, Fuzzy, I figured all you were doing was being a PWI sycophant in your last post. I appreciate your forthcoming behaviour. Doing this basically eliminates the necessity and even the incentive of farming for gear using content throughout the game.

Eliminates the necessity you say? By that train of logic players should just stick to TT70 gear... or wait even better, pure NPC gear. Beyond that there is no "necessity" to farm TT.. or Lunar.. or Nirvana... Oh you can farm that stuff? Why bother? You can just open packs for it!!!???? Rediculous.

Eliminates the incentive for it?

Fool.

In fact for those players who choose to farm and/or merchant for their gear it probably doubles their incentive to achive it. If you fail to see the achievement in smacking CS'd players to death with farming you don't know up from down.

To suggest it's somehow against MMO culture too offer gear to those who CS vs. those who don't.... have you not tried hard enough in this game? Tomes, Nirvana armour, Nirvana wepons, Lunar capes, defence blessings, apoth, attack charms, defence charms, Cube necks, ..... lets see... did Fuzzy miss a pack item? PQ3 rings, Warsong Belts not to mention the $75 R8... ALL can be had with some work. Even the all encompasing R9. Does it take work? Yes. No question. No argument from the panda there. Can it be done? 100% yes. Just because the FTP "culture" makes it easier for some, PWI by no means makes it impossible for ALL.

Just because they are available throught packs or CS doesn't some how negate the fact EVERY SINGLE PIECE is attainable by those who put in some effot.

Don't cry to Fuzzy about some idiotic idea that those who CS get such an advantage you are not able to overcome it. Step up an work harder. Every other argument doesn't wash simply because maybe for you it isn't as easy. That doesn't somehow make it impossible or unfair. If you think it is unfair, go swipe your visa or else get of your self-serving butt, go do some work an get it for yourself.

PWI is pay to win or work hard to win. Lazy is no excuse.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Fuzzy...you forgot merchant to win!


Fuzzy should probably calm down a second though. b:sad

RosangeIa - Heavens Tear

Hmm that was very well put Fuzzy.

I used to be in the same boat as others who cry about end game gear practically being available to anyone willing to swipe their credit cards. But it took a 9 month break from the game and reading some on the forums to realize that it may still be that way, but you can also get anything you want in this game through hard work. The same hard work you put into farming TT gear. And trust me I've done my fair share plenty. Worked VERY hard for my TT99 for my veno and some on the cleric too. Nothing is ever truly free.

I always wondered the way that people made it through the game without spending money so I got down to reading some guides and I have to say I'm very glad I did. I simply can't afford to spend on PWI anymore, so learning how to earn everything through merchanting or something similar was and is my best bet. Anything is attainable in this game wether you spend real money or not. And that's truly the beauty of this game.

I've played other P2P games after PW (PW was my first MMO lol) and I always come back here because I enjoy the game. Thing is you either evolve with the game or leave it. It's that simple... complaining gets no one anywhere.

Though I do agree that I feel the devs could do better by us (like fix bugs that need fixing, though I noticed they've started doing that too). But you know. I enjoy the game and people I meet through it, so I see no real reason to leave. I'm not losing anything (except maybe time? lol).

Infernia - Harshlands

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Match your expectations? Probably not possible since you seem to think that the CS'ing your gear somehowe diminishes ones pride in having farmed it, or for that matter the effectiveness of the gear itself.

Again....



Eliminates the necessity you say? By that train of logic players should just stick to TT70 gear... or wait even better, pure NPC gear. Beyond that there is no "necessity" to farm TT.. or Lunar.. or Nirvana... Oh you can farm that stuff? Why bother? You can just open packs for it!!!???? Rediculous.

Eliminates the incentive for it?

Fool.

In fact for those players who choose to farm and/or merchant for their gear it probably doubles their incentive to achive it. If you fail to see the achievement in smacking CS'd players to death with farming you don't know up from down.

To suggest it's somehow against MMO culture too offer gear to those who CS vs. those who don't.... have you not tried hard enough in this game? Tomes, Nirvana armour, Nirvana wepons, Lunar capes, defence blessings, apoth, attack charms, defence charms, Cube necks, ..... lets see... did Fuzzy miss a pack item? PQ3 rings, Warsong Belts not to mention the $75 R8... ALL can be had with some work. Even the all encompasing R9. Does it take work? Yes. No question. No argument from the panda there. Can it be done? 100% yes. Just because the FTP "culture" makes it easier for some, PWI by no means makes it impossible for ALL.

Just because they are available throught packs or CS doesn't some how negate the fact EVERY SINGLE PIECE is attainable by those who put in some effot.

Don't cry to Fuzzy about some idiotic idea that those who CS get such an advantage you are not able to overcome it. Step up an work harder. Every other argument doesn't wash simply because maybe for you it isn't as easy. That doesn't somehow make it impossible or unfair. If you think it is unfair, go swipe your visa or else get of your self-serving butt, go do some work an get it for yourself.

PWI is pay to win or work hard to win. Lazy is no excuse.

While correct, its stil rediculously unfair. Rank 9 passes no benefit down, nobody benefits except the buyer and PW. PReviously most gear involved smeone having to farm it, meaning, essentially, the server farmed it for the player. Now it just spawns from midair, noone else gets anything and it simply breaks the process. As for farming rank 9, its possible, yes, much in the same way its possible to earn 1 thousand pounds picking coins off the floor. Its scale of ease is completely broken.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Match your expectations? Probably not possible since you seem to think that the CS'ing your gear somehowe diminishes ones pride in having farmed it, or for that matter the effectiveness of the gear itself.

Again....



Eliminates the necessity you say? By that train of logic players should just stick to TT70 gear... or wait even better, pure NPC gear. Beyond that there is no "necessity" to farm TT.. or Lunar.. or Nirvana... Oh you can farm that stuff? Why bother? You can just open packs for it!!!???? Rediculous.

Eliminates the incentive for it?

Fool.

In fact for those players who choose to farm and/or merchant for their gear it probably doubles their incentive to achive it. If you fail to see the achievement in smacking CS'd players to death with farming you don't know up from down.

To suggest it's somehow against MMO culture too offer gear to those who CS vs. those who don't.... have you not tried hard enough in this game? Tomes, Nirvana armour, Nirvana wepons, Lunar capes, defence blessings, apoth, attack charms, defence charms, Cube necks, ..... lets see... did Fuzzy miss a pack item? PQ3 rings, Warsong Belts not to mention the $75 R8... ALL can be had with some work. Even the all encompasing R9. Does it take work? Yes. No question. No argument from the panda there. Can it be done? 100% yes. Just because the FTP "culture" makes it easier for some, PWI by no means makes it impossible for ALL.

Just because they are available throught packs or CS doesn't some how negate the fact EVERY SINGLE PIECE is attainable by those who put in some effot.

Don't cry to Fuzzy about some idiotic idea that those who CS get such an advantage you are not able to overcome it. Step up an work harder. Every other argument doesn't wash simply because maybe for you it isn't as easy. That doesn't somehow make it impossible or unfair. If you think it is unfair, go swipe your visa or else get of your self-serving butt, go do some work an get it for yourself.

PWI is pay to win or work hard to win. Lazy is no excuse.

I actually know JanusZeal. We ran countless Nirvana together on HT. Some of us aren't crying. We're fed up with getting 2 shot by someone who has spent a month playing PWI and CS'ed their gear, skills, etc. They might suck at their class, but it doesn't take a genius to hot F1 for gush, or get 2 sparks built up and drop BIDS, to wipe entire parties with full R9 +12/2nd stage Nirvana +12.

Hard work is great. I'll be the first one to line up for my hard earned gear, skills, etc. But I'm sick if taking it up the butt and getting 2 shot by some player who started playing the game a month ago. There's a fine line between earning your gear, being satisfied, and earning your place on the server VS swiping your Visa and basically playing on a private server, where you get +12 end-game gear, and run around killing anyone you feel like.

While these people that CS gear normally fail, it's not hard to get 2 shot by them pressing F1 before you get on them w/ stuns, etc. I take pride in my gear, and what I've earned. I know better gear is obtainable. I'll continue to mass farm Nirvana + TTs + dalies daily, until I quit the game. However, Visa = God mode. I'm sick of playing in a game so unbalanced between CSers and the farmers/merchants.

Add all my gear together, you get probably $600-900. Someone can easily get this in less than an hour of swiping their Visa. My gear is my pride and my hard work combined. Why should someone else get this with real life money, when this game's moto has always been "Free to Play"? It might be free to play, but it's pay to win. Can't be a real winner, until you pay. Suppose that "winner" is a personal definition, as many people can feel they are "winners" without it being the way I'm intending it to.

Edit: I just wanted to add, I don't think as a Mod you should be so critical of someone's POV. By so critical, I'm referring to the harsh remarks to the people(s) you quote in the various threads. While you may find this acceptable, aren't you a Moderator? Your here to Moderate topics, and input some opinion... Not intense opinions that may cause the thread to turn into bashing, flaming, and angry people. I dunno, I just find saying some of the things would enrage me if I was an easily angered person.

fuzzywuzz

Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »

While correct, its stil rediculously unfair. Rank 9 passes no benefit down, nobody benefits except the buyer and PW. PReviously most gear involved smeone having to farm it, meaning, essentially, the server farmed it for the player. Now it just spawns from midair, noone else gets anything and it simply breaks the process.

You make it sound as if it is somehow impossible to defeat an R9 player. Fuzzy is CERTAIN this is FAR from the case.

Edit: (this might be ninja'd by the time Fuzzy done writing....)

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Edit: I just wanted to add, I don't think as a Mod you should be so critical of someone's POV. By so critical, I'm referring to the harsh remarks to the people(s) you quote in the various threads. While you may find this acceptable, aren't you a Moderator? Your here to Moderate topics, and input some opinion... Not intense opinions that may cause the thread to turn into bashing, flaming, and angry people. I dunno, I just find saying some of the things would enrage me if I was an easily angered person.

While Fuzzy is indeed a Mod and has the ability to close threads, move threads, or even bring issues to the attention of the GM's, the panda is still simply a player of PWI. Being a Mod by no mean precludes Fuzzy from expressing his own opinion.

It is in all actuality fairly rare Fuzzy will express his own ideas however nothing precludes a Mod from participating in discussions about they game that they themselves play.

Does some of what the panda posts enrage people? Perhaps it does, but such is the nature of being on the opposite sides on an opinion that touches on the game we all play.

Have a REAL problem take it up with the GM's. Until then, Fuzzy will continue to post his opinion and only mod the threads that are deserving of being close/moved/ect.

GhostDuck - Harshlands

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

You make it sound as if it is somehow impossible to defeat an R9 player. Fuzzy is CERTAIN this is FAR from the case.

No i think the point was, a Cash shopper A would essentially be buying gear from Player B who had farmed it. So therefore Cashshopper A gets his gear right away, but someone, Player B in the game is rewarded for their hard work with coin which they use to buy whatever. PWI still got their cash from Cashshopper A. By making all gear in cashshop, PWI and Cashshopper A are rewarded, and you take the player B out of the game

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Add all my gear together, you get probably $600-900. Someone can easily get this in less than an hour of swiping their Visa. My gear is my pride and my hard work combined. Why should someone else get this with real life money, when this game's moto has always been "Free to Play"? It might be free to play, but it's pay to win. Can't be a real winner, until you pay. Suppose that "winner" is a personal definition, as many people can feel they are "winners" without it being the way I'm intending it to.

I have to add something here that kind of ticks me off about this whole debate. Many of the people who cash shop did earn their gear, by spending just as many hours as you do playing a video game actually working hard in real life. They have every right to feel pride in their work. There will always be a disparity between rich and poor, that's life. Simple economics and common sense tells you that Perfect World can't fix that. Stop the petty insults about cash shoppers, who by the way if it wasn't for them you wouldn't even be able to play the game, and instead address the real issue at hand. Perfect World has effectively doubled the price of an item that was already the most expensive one in the entire game. This makes it so that many players are effectively locked out of being able to obtain the gear because lets face it, not everyone has the time to devote to this game or the nicest friends etc to make it feasible. You shouldn't have to rely only on people being unreasonably generous and giving you items worth millions for nothing in return.

GhostDuck - Harshlands

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have to add something here that kind of ticks me off about this whole debate. Many of the people who cash shop did earn their gear, by spending just as many hours as you do playing a video game actually working hard in real life. They have every right to feel pride in their work. There will always be a disparity between rich and poor, that's life. Simple economics and common sense tells you that Perfect World can't fix that. Stop the petty insults about cash shoppers, who by the way if it wasn't for them you wouldn't even be able to play the game, and instead address the real issue at hand. Perfect World has effectively doubled the price of an item that was already the most expensive one in the entire game. This makes it so that many players are effectively locked out of being able to obtain the gear because lets face it, not everyone has the time to devote to this game or the nicest friends etc to make it feasible. You shouldn't have to rely only on people being unreasonably generous and giving you items worth millions for nothing in return.

We posted at the same time just now but i have to say, i don't think people are mad about cashshopping, it is what lets us all play. We all know that. It's about how it is set up where you take the player base out of the equation. Cashshop now directly benefits Cashshopper and PW, and no player in between. 1 year ago you could of been playing for 1 year, have tt90/99 set and in order for someone to log on a new account and get that, they would have to buy from you or some other player that farmed it to sell to you. Now just log a new account and get that same gear by buying from pwi, not from the player base. So it kills the incentive for people to farm. Which few people do now and the only way to make the money is to have people to do it with. This is the big problem the free players have against the cashshopping, not against the people themselves.

Ask Tremble, i don't know him but after all he has achieved, he is angry a 2 week old player can two shot him cause they bought their gear from pwi. But if that same player bought that gear from him, he may still get 2 shot, but at least he has 500mil coins in the bank to make up for it. Hell you can all 1 shot me for 500mil coins. In that scenario however, PWI get's their money, Cashshopper get's his gear, and the hardworking player gets rewarded too

fuzzywuzz

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This makes it so that many players are effectively locked out of being able to obtain the gear because lets face it, not everyone has the time to devote to this game or the nicest friends etc to make it feasible. You shouldn't have to rely only on people being unreasonably generous and giving you items worth millions for nothing in return.

The time it takes...

It costs a negligable ammount of Mirage stones each and 15 minutes to do a Lunar trophy run. 15min x 8 medals = 2hrs.

This is just one example of a pack item that can honestly be had for not so much effort. Have a barb? 1st valley is a joke. Have a BM? 2nd valley takes 8 min. Have vent and a 3 people who have a genie with Absolute Domain? Takes 8min and a little communication. But OH!!! Guess what!!! People would rather ignore the fact you cant farm it or they have never actually tried and prefer to propigate the myth that Lunar is either broken or too hard to make it worth it.


Think again...

Gear being available in packs by no means "locks out" others....

Kieve - Dreamweaver

Fuzzy, I love ya as a mod, comrade, but I think Tremble's right in that you're letting this get a bit too personal, at least for posting on your mod identity here.

Also, given the original opening post, I am flat out amazed that this thread has gone on as long as it has.

GhostDuck - Harshlands

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

The time it takes...

It costs a negligable ammount of Mirage stones each and 15 minutes to do a Lunar trophy run. 15min x 8 medals = 2hrs.

This is just one example of a pack item that can honestly be had for not so much effort. Have a barb? 1st valley is a joke. Have a BM? 2nd valley takes 8 min. Have vent and a 3 people who have a genie with Absolute Domain? Takes 8min and a little communication. But OH!!! Guess what!!! People would rather ignore the fact you cant farm it or they have never actually tried and prefer to propigate the myth that Lunar is either broken or too hard to make it worth it.


Think again...

Gear being available in packs by no means "locks out" others....

This is the perspective of someone who already has the gear, friends, in game coin and skill to do this. Take any player starting from scratch and this will never realisticly happen. Well maybe in 2 years but by then everyone will have really quit. People have this mindset because PW perpetuates it. If there was a item in the game that had to be farmed for, people would all farm it, people would all find parties for it. But their isn't, it can all be bought so no one does. Those that want to farm for it have slim pickings to get help with it. So they don't. While the players that have been around for years and worked hard should be rewarded, newer players shouldn't be punished by it. How it is set up though is only PW is rewarded, not any player

ILubby - Raging Tide

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

The time it takes...

It costs a negligable ammount of Mirage stones each and 15 minutes to do a Lunar trophy run. 15min x 8 medals = 2hrs.

This is just one example of a pack item that can honestly be had for not so much effort. Have a barb? 1st valley is a joke. Have a BM? 2nd valley takes 8 min. Have vent and a 3 people who have a genie with Absolute Domain? Takes 8min and a little communication. But OH!!! Guess what!!! People would rather ignore the fact you cant farm it or they have never actually tried and prefer to propigate the myth that Lunar is either broken or too hard to make it worth it.


Think again...

Gear being available in packs by no means "locks out" others....

Fuzzy I'd like to be a friend of your faction to farm together whenever you're short on clericsb:cute

Infernia - Harshlands

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

The time it takes...

It costs a negligable ammount of Mirage stones each and 15 minutes to do a Lunar trophy run. 15min x 8 medals = 2hrs.

This is just one example of a pack item that can honestly be had for not so much effort. Have a barb? 1st valley is a joke. Have a BM? 2nd valley takes 8 min. Have vent and a 3 people who have a genie with Absolute Domain? Takes 8min and a little communication. But OH!!! Guess what!!! People would rather ignore the fact you cant farm it or they have never actually tried and prefer to propigate the myth that Lunar is either broken or too hard to make it worth it.


Think again...

Gear being available in packs by no means "locks out" others....

Reroll on HL and try it. IF you make friends that good, from scratch, I will be surprised as hell.

You know KrittyCat? I finally found him. Hes in the faction of some of my friends, and they are exactly the kind people you mean. However they are far from skilled / geared enough to be able to do any of what you suggest. We can run lunar, but its very difficult, we can do Nirvana (Admittedly not difficult, cept the bloddy pheonix boss. Without APS that boss truly is broken -_-) and we can do TT and more. Despite that their gear doesnt scratch the surface of what a player with $ can do, and the player with $ isnt exactly helping anyone when he buys endgame gear (Removing need or reason to do any instances) and doesnt even pass the cost down the chain.

~I really suck at writing long *** pieces, so I know exactly how scrambeled that is. Shrt version : Fuzzy, you are judging from the top of the tree. Like a king thinking he knows how a peasents life will work, you are quite simply : wrong.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

GhostDuck - Harshlands wrote: »

We posted at the same time just now but i have to say, i don't think people are mad about cashshopping, it is what lets us all play. We all know that. It's about how it is set up where you take the player base out of the equation. Cashshop now directly benefits Cashshopper and PW, and no player in between. 1 year ago you could of been playing for 1 year, have tt90/99 set and in order for someone to log on a new account and get that, they would have to buy from you or some other player that farmed it to sell to you. Now just log a new account and get that same gear by buying from pwi, not from the player base. So it kills the incentive for people to farm. Which few people do now and the only way to make the money is to have people to do it with. This is the big problem the free players have against the cashshopping, not against the people themselves.

Ask Tremble, i don't know him but after all he has achieved, he is angry a 2 week old player can two shot him cause they bought their gear from pwi. But if that same player bought that gear from him, he may still get 2 shot, but at least he has 500mil coins in the bank to make up for it. Hell you can all 1 shot me for 500mil coins. In that scenario however, PWI get's their money, Cashshopper get's his gear, and the hardworking player gets rewarded too

People were complaining about "Cashshoppers" long before this, and a lot of people say things like this

"I'm mad that someone who didn't earn their gear can ___________"


"So and so isn't a cash shopper and didn't earn their gear, and now they can ______"

"I've been playing for years and someone who cash shopped has the same gear as me! They didn't earn their gear."

A recent necro shows people were complaining and worrying about the cash shop back when the darn thing was called cubi. That's 2008. Go ahead and go back and necro. I dare ya. It just annoys me because in order to have the kind of job you where you can afford to blow 1000 dollars on a video game, you probably worked your butt of in real life. Would I like the gear to be more accessible? Yes, as I've said on many threads I don't forsee myself being able to get rank 9 any time in the near future. I've been priced out of it and that really sucks because I already have the rank for rank 8 and had been planning on getting enough rank 9 when the medals were originally pulled. I also had been saving up DQ points. I too want the gear. I too would like to see it easier for players to get rewarded by stuff. No one in their right mind would argue otherwise. But lets stop saying cash shopper as a dirty words. Or putting out the immature kid with mommy and daddy's visa stereotype.

fuzzywuzz

GhostDuck - Harshlands wrote: »

This is the perspective of someone who already has the gear, friends, in game coin and skill to do this.

It didn't happen by chance that Fuzzy surrounded himself with friends who want the same goals. There are 100's of people on every server that given half a chance share the same frame of mind.

Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »

Reroll on HL and try it. IF you make friends that good, from scratch, I will be surprised as hell.

You know KrittyCat? I finally found him. Hes in the faction of some of my friends, and they are exactly the kind people you mean.

...and given time, if they stick together will be in the exact same place.

Kieve - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fuzzy, I love ya as a mod, comrade, but I think Tremble's right in that you're letting this get a bit too personal, at least for posting on your mod identity here.

Sorry Keph, Fuzzy loves ya, but the fact that the panda is a mod in no way, shape, or form preculdes Fuzzy from stating his own opinion. Mod or not, the panda is entitled to his own ideas since, like you, he is just a player of the same game we all are.


edit: and while it isn't personal, Fuzzy's entire point is that while you can pay to win in PWI, there is nothing at all the precludes you from winning in other ways. It just takes some effort. It is very sad to Fuzzy that some who post seem to think CS > effort. Put in a little elbow grease and you will soon realize this isn't 100% true 100% of the time.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

edit: and while it isn't personal, Fuzzy's entire point is that while you can pay to win in PWI, there is nothing at all the precludes you from winning in other ways. It just takes some effort. It is very sad to Fuzzy that some who post seem to think CS > effort. Put in a little elbow grease and you will soon realize this isn't 100% true 100% of the time.

I bolded what I've been trying to refer to the entire time. You play your way, I play mine. Same goes w/ everyone. It's your game, just as much as it's my game. I get all that. However, not 100% of the time will a player be able to beat someone with R9 +12/2nd stage Nirvana +12, etc. If someone that has played a month, puts more money into this game in one piece of their gear, than mine combined, they can pack a punch. There isn't any skill involved anymore after you have +12 R9/+12 2nd stage Nirvana. A wizzy simply presses "F1" on their keyboard when they walk into Cube's bored room, and I know I'd be dead in two hits.

There is no matter of skill involved at that point. I die, and that's it. You can't avoid this. I don't understand why my 2 1/2 years of hard in-game work can be so easily defeated by someone's hard work in real life, bringing cash into the game, and getting end-game gear with it.

Another player in this thread posted something about how they may have not worked for that gear and coin in-game, but they worked for the cash to get it in real life, via a job. While this is true, the game's cashshop shouldn't give players such a huge advantage over those who don't. Hard work in real life =/= hard work in-game. They are two different things, and should be treated as this.

Just because your unable to see this point Fuzzy, doesn't mean it's any less wrong. I'm not saying your points are invalid, I'm saying mine are valid. If you can't see this, I can give you the names of countless people who can. It's your game, and it's mine. I don't understand why the game is so unbalanced in terms of cash shoppers and farmers. My personal belief is it's due to the massive greed from PWE, to milk the players. But, there is no need to get into that, as there are countless other threads stating the same things, over and over.

fuzzywuzz

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just because your unable to see this point Fuzzy, doesn't mean it's any less wrong. I'm not saying your points are invalid, I'm saying mine are valid. If you can't see this, I can give you the names of countless people who can..

Fuzzy does see your point.


But to say its IMPOSSIBLE to hold your own against the CS crew just isn't true. Fuzzy hopes you see his side of the argument as well.

People make it sound as if killing an R9 just can't happen. That simply isn't the case. b:thanks

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Fuzzy does see your point.


But to say its IMPOSSIBLE to hold your own against the CS crew just isn't true. Fuzzy hopes you see his side of the argument as well.

People make it sound as if killing an R9 just can't happen. That simply isn't the case. b:thanks

Well of course. I've ganked many R9 player in my day. However, cashshopping gives players such a gigantic advantage over the hard workers, like myself that it's not even funny. By the time I have farmed up enough coin or mats, etc for that +12 R9 gear that someone cashshopped in a month, ten new sets of gear will be out and I'll be back at the bottom of the food chain. In other words, putting cash into the game create's countless players that roam each server, two-hitting all the players who have played far greater lengths of time, and worked far more in-game for what they have obtained.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I bolded what I've been trying to refer to the entire time. You play your way, I play mine. Same goes w/ everyone. It's your game, just as much as it's my game. I get all that. However, not 100% of the time will a player be able to beat someone with R9 +12/2nd stage Nirvana +12, etc. If someone that has played a month, puts more money into this game in one piece of their gear, than mine combined, they can pack a punch. There isn't any skill involved anymore after you have +12 R9/+12 2nd stage Nirvana. A wizzy simply presses "F1" on their keyboard when they walk into Cube's bored room, and I know I'd be dead in two hits.

There is no matter of skill involved at that point. I die, and that's it. You can't avoid this. I don't understand why my 2 1/2 years of hard in-game work can be so easily defeated by someone's hard work in real life, bringing cash into the game, and getting end-game gear with it.

Another player in this thread posted something about how they may have not worked for that gear and coin in-game, but they worked for the cash to get it in real life, via a job. While this is true, the game's cashshop shouldn't give players such a huge advantage over those who don't. Hard work in real life =/= hard work in-game. They are two different things, and should be treated as this.

Just because your unable to see this point Fuzzy, doesn't mean it's any less wrong. I'm not saying your points are invalid, I'm saying mine are valid. If you can't see this, I can give you the names of countless people who can. It's your game, and it's mine. I don't understand why the game is so unbalanced in terms of cash shoppers and farmers. My personal belief is it's due to the massive greed from PWE, to milk the players. But, there is no need to get into that, as there are countless other threads stating the same things, over and over.

If a game takes 1000 dollars of their hard earned money on a video game, they had darn well better give them something actually worth it. Or they are just being greedy. The fact that this MMO gives you the option of both is great. It's not greedy, it's people wanting value for their hard earned dollar. Just because you earned your gear a different way, doesn't make their way any less valid. Nor does it make merchanting instead of farming any less valid for those who can't do either.


They should instead make R9 easier for farmers to get too, like it was before they removed it from the DQ shop. Cash shoppers will always have an advantage, as they should because you are playing the game on their backs. I don't expect to have it as easy as a cash shopper to get the same gear, I wouldn't be able to play without them and I get why PWI needs to give them value for their dollar. I just want it to be a little more reasonable to obtain without cash shopping if I put in the man hours. 25 dollars for one medal is too much. If they had made it something even minor merchants (instead of the just big guys) could get than I wouldn't care if it was in the boutique. Because honestly, everything in the boutique is obtainable with in game coins. The idea that once something is in the boutique it is unobtainable through no other means than cash shopping is stupid. That just isn't true.


And Fuzzy, this isn't about people who have awesome friends who would help them farm nirvana. This is about people who spent a lot of time and money getting the chips and rep for rank 9, only to be slapped in the face at the prohibitive costs of the medals and how much PWI jacked up the price so that they average farmer couldn't get them. Before you could solo your way up to medals, if you had to. You didn't have to be in a powerhouse faction with friends who could afford to give away their fair share of the raptures.