No more cancelling channel: a poll & an opinion

Azzazin - Dreamweaver

Hello fellow gamers.

This afternoon when I logged for another enjoyable session of gaming, I had a rather rude surprise: no longer was I able to cancel power dash to get extra crit rate. This was not mentioned anywhere in the patch notes, nor in the notes provided by the GM on the server maintenance thread.

I'm not sure about other assassins out there, but this was an incredibly huge blow to me. This technique required good timing and skill. With my expert use of this glitching, I have on occasion won the weekly Tiger Event with a mere +10 weapon, a feat some have wondered at: glitching was part of the answer. Without power dash glitch, my aoe damage has plummeted, needless to say. Thanks developers, you just made assassins even less useful in TW.

But then when I was feeling all morose and down in the dumps, I got to thinking about other classes. In particular, blademasters seem to be getting royally screwed over. Without being able to glitch the 2 spark fire skill, a bms damage has taken a huge plunge. Without being able to cancel cyclone heel, bms usefulness in 1 on 1 pk just took a huge hit as well.

I've weathered a lot of changes to this game. Packs. Rep. R9 gear. But this change is a step in the other direction. To those assassins and blademasters who have never utilized glitching before, you are the lucky ones---you don't know what you will be missing. But for those of us who have been glitching for months or years now, this is a huge blow that makes our characters significantly less powerful.

I could almost see this as being a nurf against assassins, but its not: it hurts BMs much worse than it does assassins.

This change is senseless. Something was fixed that didn't need fixing, and things were made far worse than the original 'problem'. (Speaking of which... the cleric skill magic shell is still not working. Now there's something that actual IS a problem... has anything been done about this? Heaven forbid.)

I've been a long time customer of PWI, but this might just be the final straw that will stop me from playing this game, and from paying, for yes indeed I have payed. I can guarantee that a lot of assassins and blademasters right now are feeling just as dissatisfied as I am. Will this change make them think twice about playing this game anymore? At the very least, I want a GM to chip in with a response. I'm a man of logic, give me something that sounds halfway reasonable and I might just buy it. As it stands now, this change was utterly useless in every single way, and I hate it.

I know there's an almost non-existant chance that this will result in anything useful, but I just can't let this go without trying. In the poll there are 4 options. Answer either option A or B if you are an assassin or a bm. If you are any other class, answer in either options C or D. If this poll gets a strong enough response, maybe somebody upstairs will take notice.

Regards,

Azzazin


Edit:

Clearly people are not posting on the proper areas of the poll, or they are just brain dead. I'm not happy with the change, but there's a chance I can adapt. But all of you haughty arcanes who have never tried playing an endgame BM just sicken me. Without glitching pole ulti, or cyclone heel, or DBB for fire damage, BMs now have almost no chance against equally skilled & well geared people, in particular psychics or barbs/other bms. Or assassins for that matter; without glitching I'll be very surprised if fist users can keep me stun locked ever again. For three years the developers did nothing, and now they take it away without a word?

Major f'in BS. Irresponsible negligence. If it wasn't supposed to be there, they should never have let users have it. But now that its gone, its a loss, and in the case of BMs, a f'in major loss.

If they are into fixing glitches, why did they never take away the 'glitch' of a veno pet's bleed damage? Thats because the glitch was needed to keep venos competitive. I think it is the same thing for BMs. Fist damage against heavy armor? Pray tell how exactly a bm is supposed to use a 2 spark skill for fire damage AND keep a heavy armor opponent stun locked... just ain't gonna happen!

And if you are an assassin, damage plummeted in pk ofc. Using power dash for a buff that lasts a mere 8 seconds with a cast time of almost a second (effectively 7 seconds) is just not really worth it in most cases, when you need chi for a TWO spark stun. Ever think about that? Sins gain lot of chi with skill but thats because our ordinary skills used in stun lock require a lot of chi. Consider bms two main stuns, aoe stun & drake's bash, require 35 chi and 1 spark respectively; for assassin, headhunt & tele stun require 2 sparks and 1 spark, respectively. Anyways different argument. I'll be hard pressed to kill heavy armor without sparking anymore, just like BMs.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

People ***** at me when I QQ about Mystics glitching mobs/bosses in the area around TT.

I don't really see this as being any different.

It's called glitching for a reason. The skill has a cost of 2 sparks, and you've been casting the skill (getting the buff, anyway) without paying the cost of 2 sparks. This goes for BM's, Sins, and Seekers.

But... There's two sides of the coin. The way they fixed it...

Is condescending. Childish.

So...

I'm completely up in the air on it.

And I don't see a poll yet.

Adroit - Lost City

As selfish as this may sound.. anything that nerfs sins without affecting me is ok in my book. I kinda feel bad for bms, but after having my class **** on by pwi for so long.. I don't really mind having others in our boat tbh.

Infernia - Harshlands

Its a ****ing overpowered buff and you were using it without penalty.

I didnt cancel and I wont be affected by it greatly. The 75-85+% chance of oneshotting many arcanes with the initial hit of Powerdash will be missed, but I can live with it and so can any other Sin. BMs can QQmoar, they cannot be excepted to the rule just because they consider themselves special.

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

The problem with how they fixed the glitch is the part that's bad. Originally when a user casted the skill the buff/debuff appeared on themselves/opponent before the actual blow landed. Demon sunder i beleive give's you 100% chance to crit, which means the buff needs to go off before the blow itself. Now this no longer works. .-.;

Adroit - Lost City

_Nuriko_ - Lost City wrote: »

The problem with how they fixed the glitch is the part that's bad. Originally when a user casted the skill the buff/debuff appeared on themselves/opponent before the actual blow landed. Demon sunder i beleive give's you 100% chance to crit, which means the buff needs to go off before the blow itself. Now this no longer works. .-.;

works for sage BIDS.. lol

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

Hax

Bellarie - Raging Tide

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hello fellow gamers.

This afternoon when I logged for another enjoyable session of gaming, I had a rather rude surprise: no longer was I able to cancel power dash to get extra crit rate. This was not mentioned anywhere in the patch notes, nor in the notes provided by the GM on the server maintenance thread.

I'm not sure about other assassins out there, but this was an incredibly huge blow to me. This technique required good timing and skill. With my expert use of this glitching, I have on occasion won the weekly Tiger Event with a mere +10 weapon, a feat some have wondered at: glitching was part of the answer. Without power dash glitch, my aoe damage has plummeted, needless to say. Thanks developers, you just made assassins even less useful in TW.

But then when I was feeling all morose and down in the dumps, I got to thinking about other classes. In particular, blademasters seem to be getting royally screwed over. Without being able to glitch the 2 spark fire skill, a bms damage has taken a huge plunge. Without being able to cancel cyclone heel, bms usefulness in 1 on 1 pk just took a huge hit as well.

I've weathered a lot of changes to this game. Packs. Rep. R9 gear. But this change is a step in the other direction. To those assassins and blademasters who have never utilized glitching before, you are the lucky ones---you don't know what you will be missing. But for those of us who have been glitching for months or years now, this is a huge blow that makes our characters significantly less powerful.

I could almost see this as being a nurf against assassins, but its not: it hurts BMs much worse than it does assassins.

This change is senseless. Something was fixed that didn't need fixing, and things were made far worse than the original 'problem'. (Speaking of which... the cleric skill magic shell is still not working. Now there's something that actual IS a problem... has anything been done about this? Heaven forbid.)

I've been a long time customer of PWI, but this might just be the final straw that will stop me from playing this game, and from paying, for yes indeed I have payed. I can guarantee that a lot of assassins and blademasters right now are feeling just as dissatisfied as I am. Will this change make them think twice about playing this game anymore? At the very least, I want a GM to chip in with a response. I'm a man of logic, give me something that sounds halfway reasonable and I might just buy it. As it stands now, this change was utterly useless in every single way, and I hate it.

I know there's an almost non-existant chance that this will result in anything useful, but I just can't let this go without trying. In the poll there are 4 options. Answer either option A or B if you are an assassin or a bm. If you are any other class, answer in either options C or D. If this poll gets a strong enough response, maybe somebody upstairs will take notice.

Regards,

Azzazin

Being a fox veno, this change is going to take some getting use to. My melee skills seem to now have a channeling time now, whereas before, the channeling was instant. But, I don't agree with you.
You claim that "once again, something was fixed that didn't need fixing". However, as this was an exploit using a glitch, technically, glitches need fixing, do they not?

Furthermore, why is it that people complain that this glitch should have been left in for Assassins and Blademasters, who are already overpowered enough as it is with stealth, other skills and 5aps? Yet then it's okay to also complain about Venomancers and Mystics using their pets to "glitch" mobs from the air(Gouf, Kimsa) or through doors? And don't get me started on all the complaints about them not fixing rubberbanding, the Rebirth glitch, and the tabbed boss glitch in Disaster.
Quite the double standard there. Glitches should be fixed as glitches should, but only if their exploit is not beneficial to you?

Amusing that people are actually complaining about not being able to exploit a glitch that allows you to bypass the spark cost of a skill. Especially a high level sin, who has enough ways to easily regain lost spark.

Great job complaining about them actually fixing a glitch for once, just because your skill now actually consumes the sparks it was intended to consume. People are so selfish in a game that has become a job.
I will agree, however, that this should have been in the patch notes.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »

Its a ****ing overpowered buff and you were using it without penalty.

I didnt cancel and I wont be affected by it greatly. The 75-85+% chance of oneshotting many arcanes with the initial hit of Powerdash will be missed, but I can live with it and so can any other Sin. BMs can QQmoar, they cannot be excepted to the rule just because they consider themselves special.

So, basically, 3 Sin skills (one of which was 'commonly' abused, the other two not really so much) get Nerfed, and ~6 BM Skills got nerfed, and who knows how many other skills got nerfed... And you're fine with it? b:shocked

One issue is, Power Dash's buff lasts long enough to be useful, glitched or not. PowerDash, for me, was useless for the skill/buff itself, just the buff was useful. I actually like the skill coming on later, it gives me more time to actually USE the skill. It lasts longer during an auto attack. BM's, on the other hand, required those buffs to be active during the actual skill.

Basically, for Sins that never glitched, or never cared to, this is almost a gift. It's a massive kick in the balls for BM's and possibly Barbs, not as familiar with their skills.

And... you're fine with it, because it effects Sins. >_> Shallow...

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

Yes but how about the magic shell glitch? Or maybe the phoenix bleed glitch? And i could go on, but I'm lazy at the moment.

Bellarie - Raging Tide

Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »

Its a ****ing overpowered buff and you were using it without penalty.

I didnt cancel and I wont be affected by it greatly. The 75-85+% chance of oneshotting many arcanes with the initial hit of Powerdash will be missed, but I can live with it and so can any other Sin. BMs can QQmoar, they cannot be excepted to the rule just because they consider themselves special.

You seem to forget, Sins are special, they should be able to use their overpowered skills without having to consume sparks, because it is so terribly difficult for them to quickly regain it back at 100+, right?

Infernia - Harshlands

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, basically, 3 Sin skills (one of which was 'commonly' abused, the other two not really so much) get Nerfed, and ~6 BM Skills got nerfed, and who knows how many other skills got nerfed... And you're fine with it? b:shocked

One issue is, Power Dash's buff lasts long enough to be useful, glitched or not. PowerDash, for me, was useless for the skill/buff itself, just the buff was useful. I actually like the skill coming on later, it gives me more time to actually USE the skill. It lasts longer during an auto attack. BM's, on the other hand, required those buffs to be active during the actual skill.

Basically, for Sins that never glitched, or never cared to, this is almost a gift. It's a massive kick in the balls for BM's and possibly Barbs, not as familiar with their skills.

And... you're fine with it, because it effects Sins. >_> Shallow...

No, im fine with it because it corrects a piece of **** programming. I do genuinely feel sorry for the few BMs who believe this glitch is where all their "skill" was, but overall I think its a positive change. Every bug that they fix, even if not all desired the fix, gets us closer to them fixing the ones we are desperate for them to fix.

This change has my approval. CC be gone = good.

Bellarie - Raging Tide wrote: »

You seem to forget, Sins are special, they should be able to use their overpowered skills without having to consume sparks, because it is so terribly difficult for them to quickly regain it back at 100+, right?

Er reread please? I support the change. I know exactly how it affects assassins and I think it is positive. For BMs, a little less so, but I still accept it happily.

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

^ Lmao you think they'll fix important glitch's? Your funny. NPC makeovers is not a glitch fix.

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

PWI is only in it for the money, they won't fix anything that doesn't profit them. Not enough people complain about glitch's for them to give a flying **** about it. Your hope's make me laugh.

Infernia - Harshlands

_Nuriko_ - Lost City wrote: »

^ Lmao you think they'll fix important glitch's? Your funny. NPC makeovers is not a glitch fix.

It is however one of the longest standing glitches around. And was fixed. Someone translated patch notes saying the 1k bug will also be fixed. Which will pretty much make people fall over in happiness. (Cept the tards who think that a bit of EXP loss (Or coin if they take a scroll or two to GV) is worse than losing the entire quest on a 1k incident).

Personally, im doubtful overall as many are, but I hold some hope because I still love this game and wish it to survive. These little things keep that hope up.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

_Nuriko_ - Lost City wrote: »

Yes but how about the magic shell glitch? Or maybe the phoenix bleed glitch? And i could go on, but I'm lazy at the moment.

Magic Shell glitch? You mean Magic Shell never resetting the buff timer, or overwriting pre-existing buffs that use the same icon? I have news for you, that's not a glitch, that's 'made in China' programming. And... Phoenix Bleed?

Okay, we need to make a definition of 'Glitch' here. A Glitch is when a player does something unusual to cause a normal function or skill to behave abnormally to their advantage.

You're missing half of it here. Magic Shell and Veno Pets with Flesh Ream have NOTHING to do with Player glitching. That's just straight up **** programming. If you wanna QQ about Flesh Ream, fine. If that gets fixed, then essentially, there will be no viable way to play a Veno in TW. It's also been hinted at that the Devs put that in intentionally, but it may have been a mathematical error. Who knows, flesh ream has a 25% damage reduction instead of a 75% damage reduction in PVP. Go cry a river, it could be a 0% damage reduction now and Nix with Flesh Ream would still be obsolete in TW now.

Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »

No, im fine with it because it corrects a piece of **** programming. I do genuinely feel sorry for the few BMs who believe this glitch is where all their "skill" was, but overall I think its a positive change. Every bug that they fix, even if not all desired the fix, gets us closer to them fixing the ones we are desperate for them to fix.

This change has my approval. CC be gone = good.

They fixed a piece of **** programming with an even worse piece of **** programming. Very well. Be happy with it, I don't really care.

I actually can think of a better way to fix this glitch abuse. it's quite simple, simply make powerdash buff go away when daggers are unequipped. There. Now powerdash has it's original function, but if you try glitching it, it uses no sparks, the buff doesn't happen, and you just waste mana. Simple. Harder for BM's, since their buffs have to work over a variety of weapons. Would be simple, just cause their fist, axe, sword, and pole buffs to vanish when any weapon other than those is equipped, or no weapon. Then, make the buff vanish if no spark(s) is(are) consumed during casting.

Of course, this would have taken more than 3 seconds to code into the game, so they simply did a hackjob and spoon fed it to us.

LovesTragedy - Lost City

Normally I would be ok with this.

However.

I have to say one thing.

GIVE MY SEEKER BACK HER TELEPORT GLITCH!

b:angryb:angryb:angryb:angryb:angry

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

This change *seems* to fix the easy 'transformed with the wrong weapon' glitch, as well, though I've not exhaustively tested it. (It's not like it's actually useful to me, though I can see some cheating barbs getting annoyed, if it's true.)
Plausibly the BM class needs rebalancing. By which, of course, I mean "Sins are massively overpowered."

But fixing a glitch is a good thing. You got a buff without paying for it. Now you don't.

I must admit I too am shocked by their fixing longtime bugs.

Rationalising skill overwrite would also be a good thing. And if they nerfed PVP-bleed damage, well, I'd be personally less well off - but yeah, I think it's probably a bug and ought to be under the same reduction as direct pet damage. (You could argue that should be changed too - but without the pet-vs-? damage venos really would need some rebalancing.)

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This change *seems* to fix the easy 'transformed with the wrong weapon' glitch, as well, though I've not exhaustively tested it. (It's not like it's actually useful to me, though I can see some cheating barbs getting annoyed, if it's true.)
Plausibly the BM class needs rebalancing. By which, of course, I mean "Sins are massively overpowered."

But fixing a glitch is a good thing. You got a buff without paying for it. Now you don't.

I must admit I too am shocked by their fixing longtime bugs.

Rationalising skill overwrite would also be a good thing. And if they nerfed PVP-bleed damage, well, I'd be personally less well off - but yeah, I think it's probably a bug and ought to be under the same reduction as direct pet damage. (You could argue that should be changed too - but without the pet-vs-? damage venos really would need some rebalancing.)

BM's need a good boost in DPS to keep up with sins. If a BM can't keep a caster stunlocked in PVP, the BM is done. BM's tend to be easy pickings in TW for ranged users, even archers. I see a BM, I'm'a stun 'em, hit STA, and let the Wiz nuke them in their next shot.

And I will reiterate again...

Fixing glitches is fine.

Fixing a glitch by breaking the skills that were being glitched is NOT OKAY.

And for Venos... They either need to do waaay the hell more DPS in PVP, pets need to have their damage reduction reduced (maybe 65% reduction overall or 50% reduction instead of 75%, and no more Flesh Ream at 25%), otherwise, Venos will be completely useless in TW and group PVP. Basically, they will stun their target, do a little damage, Nix will stun, do a little damage, then they will get oneshot. Every time.

Unless Wanmei balances the classes, they might as well must remove Venomancers from the game entirely. I've used mine as a crafting *****. It hasn't been worth playing... Too expensive to buy a herc, and Nix is the only thing that did any kind of damage in TW, and even it barely does anything to BM's, barbs, and some Archers.

Evict - Heavens Tear

Poor Sage BMs. b:chuckle

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Poor Sage BMs. b:chuckle

What's this I don't even

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

When all glitches will be fixed, pwi will be good for all classes, not just for overpowered.

Evict - Heavens Tear

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

What's this I don't even

Cyclone Heel?b:puzzledb:puzzled

Infernia - Harshlands

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Cyclone Heel?b:puzzledb:puzzled

They can always follow through and actually cast it :O

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

And I will reiterate again...

Fixing glitches is fine.

Fixing a glitch by breaking the skills that were being glitched is NOT OKAY.

What do you mean by breaking the skills? Skills are now doing what they're supposed to do.. Consume spark, cast, get buff. How is it breaking the skill?

I feel for you BMs. Being able to glitch so many skills was always my favorite part of BM pvp.

Anyankha - Sanctuary

This is hilarious. So you're mad that you can't exploit anymore? And you're so arrogant that you made a poll to complain about it?
As far as I'm concerned Sins are like parasites in this game, anything that can **** them really makes me laugh. And judging by the results of your poll I'm not the only one b:chuckle

Nunxbl - Archosaur

Finally it's time to roll int class! b:victory

JSXJoe - Sanctuary

I have a BM and a sin and used these glitches too, but I think they done the right thing about it. Cuz actually its just a bug exploit and using it is bannable through ToS of PWE. And What the hell...DBB for BMs doesn' take that long to cast...you just loose 2 sparks, well idc, Cyclone Heel is only bad for Sage BMs (MOAR Nubs, Demon ruled and will rule^^) so I guess, it's fine as it is now, no more bug using, they're just doing their jobs fixing bugs, so fine for me =D

Evict - Heavens Tear

Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »

They can always follow through and actually cast it :O

Losing 10-15 sparked hits sux tho.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

What do you mean by breaking the skills? Skills are now doing what they're supposed to do.. Consume spark, cast, get buff. How is it breaking the skill?

.

My thought on that exactly.

Blaydewind - Raging Tide

I have a 100 BM and when I started messing around multi-weapon chains near the 80s, I accidentally cancelled heel by weapon swapping too quickly and realized the attack speed buff still remained. Eventually, I figured out all the "exploits" of the exploitable BM skills, and personally, I don't think it's something one should get used to. Even though I could do the exploits, I chose not to make it a habit because that isn't the way the skills were intended to be used.

I can see why some are complaining about the "fix", however. The exploits allowed for more skill interaction (via multiple hotkeys) when executing complex attack chains. If the skills were really meant to do that, then I would have jumped on that wagon a long time ago, but unfortunately, it's an exploit. I quit an FPS game (probably the last time I did anything PvP-related on an internet game) a long time ago because people exploited terrain glitches to get an advantage, making the game seem more like an exploit war and not fun to play anymore. I didn't want to bring that habit to PWI, too, so I avoid that kind of gaming habit when possible.

Most of the people complaining about the cc fix seem to be hardcore PvP'ers. I think those people are really frustrated about the unbalanced PvP rather than the "fix" of the cc exploits. From what I've read from BMs, they only used the exploits to fight on par with the OP opponents. All I can say to that is that this is one of the reasons I don't PvP in a cash shop game like this. If you're trying to make a name for yourself as a competitive player, it's hard to prove yourself when someone else achieves your goals through the use of real money. You spent the time to train yourself in learning your class and farming countless hours for your gear, only to get slapped in the face by someone with lots of real money to spend for levels and gear. It really sucks, but it usually happens in a game like this.

This probably means nothing to you dedicated PvP'ers, but the fact that you guys can adapt to the metagame, using what was available, makes you good players. People can get handed gear and levels with real money, but only a few can dedicate the time and effort to separate themselves from the masses and earn a true reputation, and that's what matters most b:victory. I had a feeling that the exploit would be "fixed", unfortunately, especially with so many people openly discussing it. It's sad that some of you guys are giving up your favorite classes because of the "fix", but I guess it can't be helped. I, for one, will keep my BM because the cc exploit wasn't why I liked the class. I like playing in PvE squads, supporting my team through the use of stuns, bell buff, hf, gs, and other BM-specific advantages that I enjoy. My response to the cc "fix"? Meh.

Oh well, it finally happened, and we can only adapt or move on to something else. Good luck on your future endeavors, guys. b:bye