Demon vs Sage

OperaVectra - Sanctuary

Which one u re choosing and why?

Im going demon, not only for the demon spark giving more aps, but also seems that aoes are more useful in demon version (considering the skills postd in the demon/sage topic are correct)...

- demon Darkcloud cooldown reduced

- demon Vortex has a chance of stunning, which is kinda cool when ure not a wizard

- Stalagstrike has a decent chance of causing bleed

- heartseeker has increased range

- stun tele has increased range (i think)

- Gemini Slash causes slow


Discuss

BladedDzN - Raging Tide

OperaVectra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Which one u re choosing and why?

Im going demon, not only for the demon spark giving more aps

I stopped reading right there b:bye

OperaVectra - Sanctuary

it doesnt? did i miss something?ok, so, i choose demon cause i like having increased atk rate rather than dmg reduction. better now?

BladedDzN - Raging Tide

OperaVectra - Sanctuary wrote: »

it doesnt? did i miss something?ok, so, i choose demon cause i like having increased atk rate rather than dmg reduction. better now?

This isn't an aps class, even though demon spark will increase attack rate, if people would stop thinking that they'd look at all the skills in a whole, not just a select few skills. But the more people that choice demon the cheaper my sage books will be b:pleased

vristion

OperaVectra - Sanctuary wrote: »

it doesnt? did i miss something?ok, so, i choose demon cause i like having increased atk rate rather than dmg reduction. better now?

Mainly the APS part, its useless to a seeker.

OperaVectra - Sanctuary

ok, ok, w/e. still anyone hasnt given any reason why to choose sage. desconsider the aps part of my post then , just keep on topic plz

vristion

BladedDzN - Raging Tide wrote: »

This isn't an aps class, even though demon spark will increase attack rate, if people would stop thinking that they'd look at all the skills in a whole, not just a select few skills. But the more people that choice demon the cheaper my sage books will be b:pleased

Just stay on RT, so I can get all the sage books on Arch

vristion

sorry i CnP from the list....but Im highlighting the sage benefits,, that stand out.

Sage: Chance of recieve crit increase by 15%
Sage: Damage receive effect increase by 30%
Sage: Range increase to 12m
Sage: Cooldown reduce by 1 sec
Sage: Chance of paralzye increase by 15%
Sage: 50% to interupt target's channel
Sage: extra damage increase by 2000 <

---

already hits like a truck! why not make it a semi

Sage: Resist to stun, slow for 4 sec
Sage: Evasion increase by 50% for 6 sec
Sage: Increase def lvl by 3
Sage: Stun duration increase by 1 sec
Sage: Cooldown reduce by 15 sec, silence duration increase by 2 sec
Sage: Damage increase to 90% versus 1 crit?

Okeano - Harshlands

I'm going sage for a couple of reasons.

The sage version of all the buffs have higher chance of proc-ing, which imo is more useful in PvP than the increase duration of demon version.

Major skills such as Stalag, Heartseeker, Gemini Slash, Vortex, Unfetter and Quid Pro Quo are considerably better as sage. One might think the stun in the demon version of Vortex is nice for PvE, but that's just the opposite. All that one second of stun does is stop all the mobs then release them at once. So instead of mobs attacking you at different time, all the mobs will attack you at once right after the stun. This causes major spike damage and it's much more deadly than the damage over time spread out.

I also noticed that Seeker can't get chi for ****. Most classes have a skill or two that you can spam, when not engaged in battle, to build chi. The only skill Seeker can build chi with is Adrenal Numbness and that's not exactly spamable. For this reason, 50 chi from sage helps a lot.

vristion

yea, the plus side is being able to pull 50 chi out off your *** in a stump situation.. Least seekers are not as chi dependant as say a BM... demon BM are a pain in mass PK when no chi sticks around b:chuckle

BladedDzN - Raging Tide

OperaVectra - Sanctuary wrote: »

ok, ok, w/e. still anyone hasnt given any reason why to choose sage. desconsider the aps part of my post then , just keep on topic plz

BladedDzN - Raging Tide wrote: »

This isn't an aps class, even though demon spark will increase attack rate, if people would stop thinking that they'd look at all the skills in a whole, not just a select few skills. But the more people that choice demon the cheaper my sage books will be b:pleased

Try taking the time to read, Okeano was nice enough to type it all for you though

OperaVectra - Sanctuary

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm going sage for a couple of reasons.

The sage version of all the buffs have higher chance of proc-ing, which imo is more useful in PvP than the increase duration of demon version.

Major skills such as Stalag, Heartseeker, Gemini Slash, Vortex, Unfetter and Quid Pro Quo are considerably better as sage. One might think the stun in the demon version of Vortex is nice for PvE, but that's just the opposite. All that one second of stun does is stop all the mobs then release them at once. So instead of mobs attacking you at different time, all the mobs will attack you at once right after the stun. This causes major spike damage and it's much more deadly than the damage over time spread out.

I also noticed that Seeker can't get chi for ****. Most classes have a skill or two that you can spam, when not engaged in battle, to build chi. The only skill Seeker can build chi with is Adrenal Numbness and that's not exactly spamable. For this reason, 50 chi from sage helps a lot.

finally some good reasons. indeed, i noticed that seeker also have problem getting chi. this can be fixed with genie though, also i dont see the chi being as important as it is for bm ... i use my chi more for ultis.

Never thought about that fact of stun makeing all mobs attacking u at once. b:shocked indeed it seems dangerous

HeavensRage - Raging Tide

BladedDzN - Raging Tide wrote: »

I stopped reading right there b:bye

This times a thousand.

Sage is better in almost every way.

QuakeX - Lost City

demon is tha best!!! all go demon!!! if not , no one will take u to hh, nv, frost anything !!!

yea n get 5.0 aps pro seeker dd. pls go demon!!!

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so my sage books are easier to obtain~ idiots make the world go round la la la

Antithesis - Raging Tide

Who ever goes demon seeker, HR and I will wipe the floor with ijs. Try it, make our day.

Demon = for the people that think 2.86 aps(max seeker aps) is great Kudos to you for being dumb.

Sage = Pro, nuff said.

Epros - Raging Tide

QuakeX - Lost City wrote: »

demon is tha best!!! all go demon!!! if not , no one will take u to hh, nv, frost anything !!!

yea n get 5.0 aps pro seeker dd. pls go demon!!!

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so my sage books are easier to obtain~ idiots make the world go round la la la

wuts dis? "hh"? never heard of it

HeavensRage - Raging Tide

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

wuts dis? "hh"? never heard of it

It's called herpderp hall. An ancient instance people used to farm gear in.

Epros - Raging Tide

HeavensRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's called herpderp hall. An ancient instance people used to farm gear in.

and i have a new forum siggy........i just laughed so hard i about pissed myself

Kinir - Lost City

From what I'm reading I like demon better, but I'll wait until the official word comes out to decide. Demon seems to fit the way I play the class better than sage and whatever the "pros" say...they're dumb. They probably all have sage ea's

integra07

Any idea on when we are gonna get our skills.??..

Haden - Dreamweaver

OperaVectra - Sanctuary wrote: »

ok, ok, w/e. still anyone hasnt given any reason why to choose sage. desconsider the aps part of my post then , just keep on topic plz

The reasons to choose sage should be obvious, as they're the same on all classes.

Sage usually has higher attack damage, and defenses. Sage has a chi boost.

If those arent good enough reasons heres the skills followed with my opinions on them

Northern Sky Waltz:
lvl13, self buff.

Channel: 0.2 sec
Cooldown: 8sec
Cast: 0.8sec
Mp: 70

Last 10minutes. When under this effect, each attack has 30% chance to place a Eye of the Northern Sky on target, last for 10seconds. When use Staggering Strike on target will activate the Eye of the Northern Sky, which cause 2060 extra damage, paralzye for 3seconds, and defense lvl reduce by 20 for last 8seconds, debuff will disappear after active.

Sage: Chance of placeing Eye of the Northern Sky increase by 10%
Demon: Paralzye last 1 addition sec

Sage has the higher chance of procing



Parchedblade Dance:
lvl 29, self buff

Channel: 0.4 sec
Cooldwon: 8 sec
Cast: 0.667 sec
Mp: 70

Last 10minutes. When under this effect, each attack has 20% chance to place a Bloodlet on target, last 20 seconds. When use Stalagstrike on target will activate the debuff, which cause 3750 extra damage and stun for 3 seconds, debuff will disappear after active.

Sage: Chance to place Bloodlet increase by 5%
Demon: Stun duration increase by 1 sec

Again sage has the higher chance of procing, bud demon's increased stun is nice too, but not as nice as having the chance to stun.


Soulsever Minuet:
lvl 49, self buff

Channel: 0.3 sec
Cooldown: 8 sec
Cast: 0.7
Mp: 70

Last 10minutes. When under this effect, each attack has 50% chance to place Spirit Bore on target, last 30seconds. When use Gemini Slash on target will activate the debuff, which cause 7950 metal damage on target and reduce attack and defense lvl by 10 for 3minutes, debuff will disappear after active.

Sage: Chance to place Spirit Bore increase by 15%
Demon: Def lvl decrease effect increase by 2

Increased damage by 2% or increased chance ot procing, I like the chance vs the -def level

Heart Shatter:
lvl 24, curse

Range: 20m
Channel: 1 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Cast: 0.467 sec
Mp: 70

Place a sword mark at target, target will receive addition 35% damage from phy and metal skills, last for 600 sec, only work in PvE, effect will not work with normal attack.

Sage: Damage receive debuff increase by 10%
Demon: Target also got addition 15% chance to receive crit

Demon actually looks better here but the increased proc is nice too in pve

Mind Shatter:
lvl 39, curse

Range: 20m
Channel: 1 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Cast: 0.533 sec
Mp: 70

Place a sword mark at target, target will has addition 35% chance of recieve crit from wood and water skills, last for 300 sec, only work in PvE, effect will not work with normal attack.

Sage: Chance of recieve crit increase by 15%
Demon: Target will also recieve addition 15% damage

Same with the previous skill, but demon shines a bit more


Soul Shatter:
lvl 59, curse

Channel: 1 sec
Cooldown: 180 sec
Cast: 0.467 sec
Mp: 70

Place a sword mark at target, target will receive addition 120% damage from fire and earth skills and also 50% higher crit chance, only work in PvE, effect will not work with normal attack.

Sage: Damage receive effect increase by 30%
Demon: Duration increase by 10 sec

Meh


Rock Splitting Cleave:
lvl 0, attack

Range: Melee
Channel: 0.267 sec
Cooldown: 3 sec
Cast: 0.733 sec
Mp: 75

Deal base damage plus 950 extra phy damage.

Sage: Range increase to 12m
Demon: 20% to gain 50 chi

Sage's increased range feels nicer, but the chance for more chi is nice too but fighting at range is kind of a seekers calling card.

Staggering Strike:
lvl 9, attack

Range: 12m
Channel: 0.2 sec
Cooldown: 3 sec
Cast: 0.8 sec
Mp: 70

Deal base damage plus 1380 phy damage and activate Eye of the Northern Sky.

Sage: Cooldown reduce by 1 sec
Demon: Cast time reduce by 0.2 sec

prefer the sage on this side


Ion Spike:
lvl 29, attack

Range: 20m
Channel: 1.4 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Cast: 2 sec
Mp: 135

Deal base phy damage plus 150% weapon damage plus 3900 extra metal damage to target and nearby enemies within 12m, also 100% chance to reduce target's metal resistance by 35% for 10 seconds. Cost one spark.

Sage: Metal resistance reduce effect increase by 5%
Demon: Metal resistance reduce effect duration increase by 3 sec

Sage's increased reduction is nicer than the increased duration


Stalagstrike:
lvl 29, attack

Range: Melee
Channel: 0.5 sec
Cooldown: 8 sec
Cast: 0.5 sec
Mp: 140

Deal base phy damage plus 2500 extra phy damage to all nearby enemies within 12m and activate Bloodlet.

Sage: Extra damage increase by 1500
Demon: 33% chance to cause targets to suffer 4500 damage bleed effect over 9 sec

Higher damage vs a chance to cause a dot that causes 500 dmg per second Prefer sage

Heartseeker:
lvl 39, attack

Range: 28m
Channel: 1.057 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Cast: 1.267 sec
Mp: 95

Deal base phy damage plus 100% weapon damage plus 2900 extra metal damage to target and also has 75% chance to paralyze target for 8seconds.

Sage: Chance of paralzye increase by 15%
Demon: Range increase by 5m

Increased chance to paralyze vs increased 5 meter range, hard choice

Darkcloud Bolt:
lvl 39, attack

Range: Melee
Channel: 0.3 sec
Cooldown: 8 sec
Cast: 0.7 sec
Mp: 115

Deal base phy damage plus 1700 extra phy damage to all nearby targets within 12m.

Sage: 50% to interupt target's channel
Demon: Cooldown reduce by 2 sec

Sage > Demon considering all classes can be interrupted

Gemini Slash:
lvl 49, attack

Range: 28m
Channel: 3.333 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Cast: 2 sec
Mp: 150

Deal base phy damage plus 450% weapon damage plus 5300 extra phy damage to all nearby enemies within 12m of target and activate Spirit Bore.

Sage: extra damage increase by 2000
Demon: 33% to reduce target's movement speed by 60% for 8 sec

Sage > Demon

Edged Blur:
lvl 59, attack

Range: Melee
Channel: 0.467 sec
Cooldown: 30 sec
Cast: -0.001 sec
Mp: 500

Deal base phy damage plus 6500 extra metal damage to all enemies within 8m every 3 seconds for 12seconds. Cost 2 sparks.

Sage: Attack area increase by 2m
Demon: Duration increase by 3 sec

3 seconds = 1 extra attack vs 2 extra meters on the circular aoe, edge demon


Yataghan Vortex:
lvl 59, attack

Range: Melee
Channel: 1.4 sec
Cooldown: 30 sec
Cast: -0.001
Mp: 435

Deal base phy damage plus 100% weapon damage plus 8300 extra phy damage to all nearby enemies within 12m every 1.5 seconds until use up all mp or skill cancel. Cost 2 spark

Sage: Attack area increase by 2m
Demon: Each attack has 20% chance to stun target for 1 sec

Gotta give this one to demon



Unfetter:
lvl 9, self bless

Channel: 0 sec
Cooldown: 70 sec
Cast: 0 sec
Mp: 60

Increase movement speed by 100% for 15seconds.

Sage: Resist to stun, slow for 4 sec
Demon: 100% chance to remove all debuff

Hard choice, but if you're already stunned, and fighting like a seeker, you wont want to remove debuffs.


Blade Affinity:
lvl 19, self bless

Channel: 0 sec
Cooldown: 60 sec
Cast: 0 sec
Mp: 50

Increase channel speed by 85%, last for 6 seconds

Sage: Evasion increase by 50% for 6 sec
Demon: Cooldown reduce by 10 sec

hard to compare, but prefer sage


Adrenal Numbness:
lvl 29, self bless

Channel: 0.4 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Cast: 0.5 sec
Mp: 110

Increase defense lvl by 32 for 30 minutes

Sage: Increase def lvl by 3
Demon: Accuarcy increase by 10%, last for 5 mins

Edge sage


Voidstep:
lvl 39, attack

Range: 38m
Channel: 0 sec
Cooldown: 180 sec
Cast: 0.6 sec
Mp: 140 sec

Charge at target, stun target for 3 seconds. Cost 1 spark.

Sage: Stun duration increase by 1 sec
Demon: 33% not use spark

Edge Sage


Quid Pro Quo: lvl 59, curse

Range: 25m
Channel: 0.533 sec
Cooldown: 60 sec
Cast: 0.667 sec
Mp: 330

Transfer 10 negative status to target, silence target for 1 second.

Sage: Cooldown reduce by 15 sec, silence duration increase by 2 sec
Demon: Paralyze target for 2 sec

Originally Demon had a steal positive buff effect, but now its not there, edge sage


Sword and Blade Mastery:
lvl 29, passive

Damage from sword and blade type weapon increase by 75%

Sage: Damage increase to 90%
Demon: 1% crit rate

Seekers attack damage is higher with sage, vs 1% crit... Prefer sage but most people do


Celestial Eruption

Recover 20% HP, add 500% weapon damage, and reduce all damage taken by 25%
for 15 seconds. Invincible for 3 seconds.
Cost three Sparks



Demonic Eruption

Recover 20% HP, add 500% weapon damage, and increase attack speed by 25%
for 15 seconds. Invincible for 3 seconds.
Cost three Sparks

Defense vs speed, hmm.. Sage > Demon

回光诀:
lvl79

Recover 40% hp, immune to stun, slow effect for 6 seconds.


翔龙剑劲:
lvl79

Deal large amount of damage to target and activate 九尊剑眼 and disarm target for 3 seconds.


九尊剑诀:
lvl100

Each attack has 20% chance to place 九尊剑眼 on target.


归刃诀:
lvl100

Reset cooldown of Unfetter, Voidstep. Increase crit rate by 15%, last for 12 seconds. Cost 2 spark.

Antithesis - Raging Tide

Lol ur 66, listen to those with Seekers at a lvl worth having them xD

Going demon Seeker is essentially you punching yourself in the face.

The Demon trip spark will be rendered useless, as THIS IS NOT AND WILL NOT BE AN APS CLASS.

HeavensRage - Raging Tide

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

From what I'm reading I like demon better, but I'll wait until the official word comes out to decide. Demon seems to fit the way I play the class better than sage and whatever the "pros" say...they're dumb. They probably all have sage ea's

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

whatever the "pros" say...they're dumb. They probably all have sage ea's

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

They probably all have sage ea's

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

sage ea's

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

ea's

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

ea's

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

ea's

Sorry just wanted to make fun of this before I got around to actually breaking down your post.

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

From what I'm reading I like demon better, but I'll wait until the official word comes out to decide.

All of the official skills are already released. You can either go to ecatomb, or just read the translations that many people have already shown.

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

Demon seems to fit the way I play the class better than sage

What the hell does this even mean? "The way you play the class?"

Kinir - Lost City wrote: »

whatever the "pros" say...they're dumb. They probably all have sage ea's

Demon, and no there is no such thing as an ea.

Trawne - Lost City

-_-

.....

1) do not rely on the skills posted to remain the same. when tideborn came out demon sin looked better and people chose demon early. when the skills were released, 5 of them swapped sage/demon effects making sage overall better.

2) everyone knows ea means elven archer, the pwmy name for them. anyone who doesn't know this should lurk moar.

3) aps on a seeker is just dumb as hell

4) based on the skills posted around the forum sage > demon mainly due to seekers lack of anti-stuns, 79 skill giving 1 and going sage giving 1 more.

5) running HH nets more coin than running nv and doesnt take 6 people to open.

OMarvelous - Sanctuary

Go Demon

But yeah, Seekers suck at gaining chi.

Antithesis - Raging Tide

to be fair, we are not as chi reliant as lets say a BM, so not being able to gain chi isnt too bad, but when we do want chi its frikken hard to get So sage helps a **** load.

OMarvelous - Sanctuary

True. I've just noticed off hand that Gemini Slash doesn't give me chi. I'm assuming its the same for others?

Epros - Raging Tide

Trawne - Lost City wrote: »

-_-

.....

1) do not rely on the skills posted to remain the same. when tideborn came out demon sin looked better and people chose demon early. when the skills were released, 5 of them swapped sage/demon effects making sage overall better.

2) everyone knows ea means elven archer, the pwmy name for them. anyone who doesn't know this should lurk moar.

3) aps on a seeker is just dumb as hell

4) based on the skills posted around the forum sage > demon mainly due to seekers lack of anti-stuns, 79 skill giving 1 and going sage giving 1 more.

5) running HH nets more coin than running nv and doesnt take 6 people to open.

1) demon sin is still better
2) this is PWI, not pwmy. call an archer an archer
3) i agree
4) i also agree
5) i thought herpderp hall wasnt ran anymore?

KingTank - Heavens Tear

I choose Sage for my Seeker, love the spark skill i think the only good thing about Demon is Vortex really but its not worth going Demon for

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

OMarvelous - Sanctuary wrote: »

Go Demon

But yeah, Seekers suck at gaining chi.

your kidding right? >.> (chi)

i dont understand why pple say its hard to get chi as seeker.
i think chi as seeker is easy to get, it enables me to almost constantly vortex around when i aoe grind >.> wtf

OMarvelous - Sanctuary

So because you think the oppposite I must be kidding? Lol.