Seeker = Busted BM?

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

HappysHAIL - Harshlands wrote: »

The problem with sins?

Stun + Silence + Sleep + Root + Occult + Anti stun + Infinite Chi

..And then they run away.

If only one of 79 100 skill disable target from gaining chi for x seconds . . b:chuckle

vristion

HappysHAIL - Harshlands wrote: »

The problem with sins?

Stun + Silence + Sleep + Root + Occult + Anti stun + Infinite Chi

..And then they run away.

Yea.. fun part of all that, is surviving it, then unleashing a chain of skills that picks on both of their defences.

Captain_Dell - Dreamweaver

read most of the thread but not all. Some things i wouldnt mind changing about seeker:


The party buffs being better attack or def level buffs, maybe 2x/3x what they are now, or remove the mirage cost and keep them at their low level.

Anti stun would be nice as other melee get them.

Sins passive detetcion skill, so we can see them like was rumoured, but it is stilla skill like sins have to levle them.


oh and the debuffs working in pvp too, were nto allowed 30% damage increase but sins are, and bms allowed 100% damage increase? both sins and bms are aoe, as oppose to seekers single target but longer.

ryukage

vristion wrote: »

Yea.. fun part of all that, is surviving it, then unleashing a chain of skills that picks on both of their defences.

Its always easy to spot a person who has no idea what they're talking about. Come back @ endgame, bro.

You have obviously never in your life fought anything anywhere near 5.0 aps. If you did, you'd see why stuns and anti-stuns are so important to the PvP of this game. If a 5.0 character stuns you, you lost unless you IMMEDIATELY do something to prevent/break the stun. Seeker can't do this, unless he has a genie to do it for him. But even if you break his stun, good luck still being alive while he's cutting your face open 5 times a second. No attack you have, no attack you will ever use can drop him before he drops you. You have ranged skills but you don't have crowd-control that actually lets you sustain a ranged fight, so ultimately the sin will always teleport back to your face and just keep slicing and dicing. He can prevent your stuns, but you cant prevent his. And you have no hope of out-DPSing him... ever.

You might be able to **** him and everyone around him with Gemini Slash though, provided that someone doesn't stun you out of that long and obvious channel time.

Pray you get some CC and anti-CC in your 79/100 skills or your Sage/Demon skills. Otherwise you'll only be a factor one time per minute (When Blade Affinity lets you cast GS without looking like a giant target).

Edit: That being said, Seeker is still probably one of the more fun classes for me to play, just for the uniqueness factor of their combo/stance style. Hoping they work out the kinks in the near future, otherwise I'm going back to my mains.

vristion

ryukage wrote: »

Its always easy to spot a person who has no idea what they're talking about. Come back @ endgame, bro.

You have obviously never in your life fought anything anywhere near 5.0 aps. If you did, you'd see why stuns and anti-stuns are so important to the PvP of this game. If a 5.0 character stuns you, you lost unless you IMMEDIATELY do something to prevent/break the stun. Seeker can't do this, unless he has a genie to do it for him. But even if you break his stun, good luck still being alive while he's cutting your face open 5 times a second. No attack you have, no attack you will ever use can drop him before he drops you. You have ranged skills but you don't have crowd-control that actually lets you sustain a ranged fight, so ultimately the sin will always teleport back to your face and just keep slicing and dicing. He can prevent your stuns, but you cant prevent his. And you have no hope of out-DPSing him... ever.

You might be able to **** him and everyone around him with Gemini Slash though, provided that someone doesn't stun you out of that long and obvious channel time.

Pray you get some CC and anti-CC in your 79/100 skills or your Sage/Demon skills. Otherwise you'll only be a factor one time per minute (When Blade Affinity lets you cast GS without looking like a giant target).



Edit: That being said, Seeker is still probably one of the more fun classes for me to play, just for the uniqueness factor of their combo/stance style. Hoping they work out the kinks in the near future, otherwise I'm going back to my mains.

cool story breh...How bout you give seekers a chance to even get Endgame before coming in here with high and mighty endgame assumptions... And personal assumptions as well... 5.0 sins are quite beatable by any equally geared class...

ryukage

vristion wrote: »

cool story breh...How bout you give seekers a chance to even get Endgame before coming in here with high and mighty endgame assumptions... And personal assumptions as well... 5.0 sins are quite beatable by any equally geared class...

Because everyone says the same thing and everyone gets *****. Yes, other classes can kill sins because the battlefield has hundreds of possible variables, including things as simple as whether or not he even saw you coming. But that isn't class balance, nor does it make the classes equal.

If you go head to head with a 5.0 assassin with the skills currently implemented, you will lose if he actually knows how to play. Providing that you and him share similar level of playing ability, you're fighting an extremely uphill battle.

I have such an interval sin, and I have a endgame wizard and psychic. After being on both ends of that spectrum, I can safely tell you it is not easy to go toe to toe with a 5.0 if you're not a 5.0 yourself. You have to find a way to keep him out of your face, or he'll shred you. Likewise, anyone who failed to keep my sin out of their face got shredded.

And as far as "equal gear" goes, the mere fact that a Seeker can't reach 5.0 kinda kills the concept of ever being truly equal. Nothing is equal to 5.0 dps, except more 5.0 dps.


As the game currently stands, with Seeker still being an incomplete class, you have no chance to win that fight; outside of having the advantage of a possible sneak attack, and/or the fact that Blade Affinity + Gemini = lethal. Outside of those two possibilities, you're looking at a total mismatch. He has more DPS than you. He crowd-controls better than you. He avoids crowd-control better than you. He has more consistent fighting abilities than you. At least from a PvP perspective.

So to repeat my original point: pray your endgame skills cover the Seeker's weaknesses. Right now its a dim outlook. It's not a bad class, but because of the way PvP in this game has evolved from the already existing content, this new incomplete content doesn't stack up yet.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Until they get to endgame.



World chat: need a 4-5 aps DD for nirvana


Seeker:

Catshop for R9 man. who wants Nirvana?

SilverCleric - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

catshop for R9 man. who wants Nirvana?

And as for people who don't want to send +$2,000 for pixles?

Quilue - Sanctuary

Cat Shop for R9

You can farm day in and day out for some **** that's almost-as-good-as-R9-except-it's-much-much-worse-but-costs-about-the-same, or you can sit in a cat shop, do the weekly events, and wait for the next sale.

Anyways, don't know how accurate Eca is right now, but some of Seeker's skill damage is on par with Wizard's, seriously. There is no doubt that so much elemental damage at such decent channel speeds will be a threat in PvP, especially with Seeker R9 having God of Frenzy. However, some of the cooldowns on those bigger nukes are pretty high, so IDK. There is nothing about how much extra damage skills will hit when used in sequence either.

Seekers are likely going to be used in mass PvP working with BMs and Sins who can hold someone still enough for them to combo a skill for very high damage. The AOE is hard to keep up ONLY because it casts so fast. Archer Barrage is 500+ mana per wave (600+ at lvl 11), but it's every 3 seconds. This AOE has more skill damage AND is twice as fast. That is the only reason it's so hard to keep up. It's likely that 2 waves of this can kill a LOT of people (again, thinking about R9 God of Frenzy here)

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

(b:pleased)
I love these thread. It's like de ja vu.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Sins = ****ty version of BM?

Sins will replace BM?

Sin vs BM: who will win?

Sin vs BM (revisited after a year)

oh shi-

ZilCaVanz - Lost City

i persoanlly tihnk at this stage anyway, could be so wrong lol.

that seeker will be so fun to use in tw, with alot of range and aoe skills.

AND THAT IT IS HA ARMOR

and also tat it has both great phy att and metal dmg, there is this ulti sometihng like 400% weapon dmg 12 aoe range, 25 range i think, not sure. NEEDS NO CHI AT ALL. 15 SEC COLLDOWN lol. but take bout 4 sec to use, kinda like a mage ulti but no chi needed.

BUT

in pvp, especially 1 on 1, i dont tihnk it will be very fun. with 1 real stun, that has a COOLDOWN OF 3MINS !!?!?!? but 35meter range at lv10. and no anti stun so...kinda useless.

this could be potentially the ultimate tw char lol who knows. depends heavily on the lv11 skills too

ryukage

ZilCaVanz - Lost City wrote: »

i persoanlly tihnk at this stage anyway, could be so wrong lol.

that seeker will be so fun to use in tw, with alot of range and aoe skills.

AND THAT IT IS HA ARMOR

and also tat it has both great phy att and metal dmg, there is this ulti sometihng like 400% weapon dmg 12 aoe range, 25 range i think, not sure. NEEDS NO CHI AT ALL. 15 SEC COLLDOWN lol. but take bout 4 sec to use, kinda like a mage ulti but no chi needed.

BUT

in pvp, especially 1 on 1, i dont tihnk it will be very fun. with 1 real stun, that has a COOLDOWN OF 3MINS !!?!?!? but 35meter range at lv10. and no anti stun so...kinda useless.

this could be potentially the ultimate tw char lol who knows. depends heavily on the lv11 skills too

My earlier cynicism aside, this is something I actually agree with.

Gemini Slash is probably going to rank as one of the best skills for Territory Wars. It's almost a wizard ultimate, but costs no chi to deliver and has a 15 second cooldown, which is honestly CRAZY in group fights. If the opponents aren't watching the Seeker's moves, they might be in trouble.

Earlier I was just saying that the lack of solid DPS, the lack of a reliable source of stuns, and the lack of any anti-stun would make them get ***** by 5.0 assassins, BMs or clawbarbs in a head to head 1v1 fight. And I stand by that quite firmly, as the seeker has nothing to stop this, currently. (Sage/Demon or 79/100 skills might change this, but for now we have to judge whats currently available).

But in a GROUP fight, I see them as a Wizard or Psychic who drops ultimates more often and should actually have better survivability because they wear HA. For that purpose, I see a lot of potential. But a cornered Wizard/Psychic who's forced to fight solo has more options at his disposal than a cornered Seeker, so he can't truly replace either of them.

I don't think Seekers have the raw firepower needed to be a great 1v1 class (aside from surprise ganks). However, TW is never 1v1. With the right other classes supporting them and watching their backs, I believe that is where their power lays.

vristion

ryukage wrote: »

Because everyone says the same thing and everyone gets *****. Yes, other classes can kill sins because the battlefield has hundreds of possible variables, including things as simple as whether or not he even saw you coming. But that isn't class balance, nor does it make the classes equal.

If you go head to head with a 5.0 assassin with the skills currently implemented, you will lose if he actually knows how to play. Providing that you and him share similar level of playing ability, you're fighting an extremely uphill battle.

I have such an interval sin, and I have a endgame wizard and psychic. After being on both ends of that spectrum, I can safely tell you it is not easy to go toe to toe with a 5.0 if you're not a 5.0 yourself. You have to find a way to keep him out of your face, or he'll shred you. Likewise, anyone who failed to keep my sin out of their face got shredded.

And as far as "equal gear" goes, the mere fact that a Seeker can't reach 5.0 kinda kills the concept of ever being truly equal. Nothing is equal to 5.0 dps, except more 5.0 dps.


As the game currently stands, with Seeker still being an incomplete class, you have no chance to win that fight; outside of having the advantage of a possible sneak attack, and/or the fact that Blade Affinity + Gemini = lethal. Outside of those two possibilities, you're looking at a total mismatch. He has more DPS than you. He crowd-controls better than you. He avoids crowd-control better than you. He has more consistent fighting abilities than you. At least from a PvP perspective.

So to repeat my original point: pray your endgame skills cover the Seeker's weaknesses. Right now its a dim outlook. It's not a bad class, but because of the way PvP in this game has evolved from the already existing content, this new incomplete content doesn't stack up yet.

Even a it stands, its compareing canned peaches to fresh oranges... In any game there will be a dominate 1v1 character... in this case I'd say sin ( I myself play sin btw) But for most part, unless you 1v1 all day (which i personally hate) then yes, that can be an arguable case on the sins part..

One thing about the sin though, in group PK they become one shot wonders. Who will be their biggest threat in TW? my predictions ARE the Seekers. As also a Cleric too and years of TW as one, I can imagine having a Seeker as my best group ally. With their fast ranged phy/mag attacks, I believe they will be able to nuke out a sin that is attacking a cleric..with very little effort Yea I know..sins can make shreaded noodles out of squishy clerics before they could be saved...but thats typically because I would say 75% of clerics dont know PK from their own ***.. but thats a whole nother debate.

Will seekers take the dominate role as a 1v1 PKer? not sure yet....still un finished, and quite honestly, as I said before in another thread, SOME classes don't even become good PK classes until they get the demon/sage addons.. (or just better) So still some things remain to be seen on their part.. But are Seekers showing some signs of holding their own and becoming a threat to other classes in mass PK (namely TW) ???? I'd say they have HUGE potential....


PvE? Whats to hate about AoE damage? 5.0 yea...spark it, tap it...it is one target.. Getting there is half the battle.... but then again, who really cares about PvE? , we still yet to see whats in store for the seeker in the engame PvE game..

Tanglewood - Raging Tide

I agree w/ orginal poster. seeker is a sub par sword BM. He has no survivablitity in TW. I used to play a sword BM and was hopeing seeker class would be everything sword BM was supposed to be. but now it just look terrible. I guess we'll see the end game skill and demon/sage. Same can be said for mystic, just loooks like a psychic w/ wood dmg

ryukage

vristion wrote: »

Even a it stands, its compareing canned peaches to fresh oranges... In any game there will be a dominate 1v1 character... in this case I'd say sin ( I myself play sin btw) But for most part, unless you 1v1 all day (which i personally hate) then yes, that can be an arguable case on the sins part..

One thing about the sin though, in group PK they become one shot wonders. Who will be their biggest threat in TW? my predictions ARE the Seekers. As also a Cleric too and years of TW as one, I can imagine having a Seeker as my best group ally. With their fast ranged phy/mag attacks, I believe they will be able to nuke out a sin that is attacking a cleric..with very little effort Yea I know..sins can make shreaded noodles out of squishy clerics before they could be saved...but thats typically because I would say 75% of clerics dont know PK from their own ***.. but thats a whole nother debate.

Will seekers take the dominate role as a 1v1 PKer? not sure yet....still un finished, and quite honestly, as I said before in another thread, SOME classes don't even become good PK classes until they get the demon/sage addons.. (or just better) So still some things remain to be seen on their part.. But are Seekers showing some signs of holding their own and becoming a threat to other classes in mass PK (namely TW) ???? I'd say they have HUGE potential....


PvE? Whats to hate about AoE damage? 5.0 yea...spark it, tap it...it is one target.. Getting there is half the battle.... but then again, who really cares about PvE? , we still yet to see whats in store for the seeker in the engame PvE game..

Thanks for repeating what I just said 5 minutes ago. Look above your post, bro.

I totally agree that they can wreck in TW, with the right people supporting them. Seekers by themselves are too vulnerable without any anti-stuns so they don't have much to guarantee their strikes. But in a TW with the correct party set-up and communication, the Seeker will be a definite threat.

However, like I said before, right now they're not 1v1 material at all. And that's why I attacked the view of Seeker vs Sin so harshly. Sins pretty much rule 1v1, and they rule PKing. It's pointless to pretend they don't when they're so rigged for it. TW is another issue all together.

Kisame_H - Sanctuary

Ok i have seen through this post and seen alot of people who are wrong about their debuffs, and im going to say how they are at lvl 10. Heart shatterer decreases a targets metal and phy defence, and adds a bonus damage. The bonus damage is 30%, and lasts for 10min, cooldown 15sec. Seeker can also decrease def lvl by 20 and lasts for 8sec, and cooldown is 3sec. The mob must have northern sky waltz buff on it though, but i can keep it on constant at just lvl 4. So seeker can make 5aps do 50% more dmg constantly, maybe a bit more since it also decrease defence cuz of heart shattererb:thanks

AuroraLucia - Archosaur

Edit: read it wrong lol.

Yeah, it would seem Seeker is far more useful to 5 APS in PvE than we would have thought.

_Nicely_ - Archosaur

Yes I can say a gemini slash with the soulseaver minouet debuff could be on par with the wizards ulti skills. Check the dmg the skill does in ecatomb.. and thats only at lvl 10 not 11.. soulsever minouet at max lvl has 50% chance to proc.. u do 2-3 range skills and ull get the debuff on ur opponent.. in tw where it is harder to target ranged attackers, i see it to have as much potential as a blade tempest of a wizard.. maybe even better with shorter cd n no chi cost

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

_Nicely_ - Archosaur wrote: »

Yes I can say a gemini slash with the soulseaver minouet debuff could be on par with the wizards ulti skills. Check the dmg the skill does in ecatomb.. and thats only at lvl 10 not 11.. soulsever minouet at max lvl has 50% chance to proc.. u do 2-3 range skills and ull get the debuff on ur opponent.. in tw where it is harder to target ranged attackers, i see it to have as much potential as a blade tempest of a wizard.. maybe even better with shorter cd n no chi cost

Soulsever Minuet Lv 11

Channel: 0.3 sec
Cooldown: 8 sec
Cast: 0.7
Mp: 70

Last 10minutes. When under this effect, each attack has 50% chance to place "Spirit Bore" debuff on target, last 30seconds. When use Gemini Slash on target will activate the debuff, which cause 7950 metal damage on target and reduce attack and defense lvl by 10 for 3minutes, debuff will disappear after active.

Sage: Chance to debuff increase by 15%
Demon: Def lvl decrease effect increase by 2

Gemini Slash Lv 11
Range: 28m
Channel: 3.333 sec
Cooldown: 15 sec
Cast: 2 sec
Mp: 150

Deal base phy damage plus 450% weapon damage plus 5300 extra phy damage to all nearby enemies within 12m of target and activate "Spirit Bore".

Sage: extra damage increase by 2000
Demon: 33% to reduce target's movement speed by 60% for 8 sec

(b:thanks)
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=930712&page=67

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

gemini would be useful if it didnt take a whopping load to cast. -.-

All the other skills were fairly fast, that when i macroed gemini in a skill combo it was so slow compared, i thought 'WTF am i lagging?'
then i looked at the cast time and tossed it out.

it would have been useful in tw but sadly thats a place where 1-2sec means life or death....

LyuFong - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

gemini would be useful if it didnt take a whopping load to cast. -.-

All the other skills were fairly fast, that when i macroed gemini in a skill combo it was so slow compared, i thought 'WTF am i lagging?'
then i looked at the cast time and tossed it out.

it would have been useful in tw but sadly thats a place where 1-2sec means life or death....

Blade Affinity can cover that issue.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

LyuFong - Sanctuary wrote: »

Blade Affinity can cover that issue.

it can, but unless there is a situation where i absolutely need to use this specific skill, i can fit in 2-3 fast skills and possibly a crit in place of the seconds used for affinity and gemini =/

_Nicely_ - Archosaur

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

gemini would be useful if it didnt take a whopping load to cast. -.-

All the other skills were fairly fast, that when i macroed gemini in a skill combo it was so slow compared, i thought 'WTF am i lagging?'
then i looked at the cast time and tossed it out.

it would have been useful in tw but sadly thats a place where 1-2sec means life or death....

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

it can, but unless there is a situation where i absolutely need to use this specific skill, i can fit in 2-3 fast skills and possibly a crit in place of the seconds used for affinity and gemini =/

Well think of it as in comparison to a wizards nuke skill... if BT or BIDS has fast casting time, then the skill would be too OP. thats why you see lots of wizard using channeling pot dropping nuke in TW all the time.. same concept here

a good nuke could mean the difference between a succesfull lane push or a fail one. and seekers be given a reduced channeling time skill thats insta cast that basically saves u pot cooldown...plus the skill uses no chi to cast

and yes of corse u can fit in 2-3 fast skills rather than using gemini... wizards uses gush and other skill too to kill ppl off but what do you do when u see a cluster of 6 ppl in tw? do you pick off one by one with gushes? no u drop a nuke and kill em... same concept here too...

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

_Nicely_ - Archosaur wrote: »

Well think of it as in comparison to a wizards nuke skill... if BT or BIDS has fast casting time, then the skill would be too OP. thats why you see lots of wizard using channeling pot dropping nuke in TW all the time.. same concept here

a good nuke could mean the difference between a succesfull lane push or a fail one. and seekers be given a reduced channeling time skill thats insta cast that basically saves u pot cooldown...plus the skill uses no chi to cast

and yes of corse u can fit in 2-3 fast skills rather than using gemini... wizards uses gush and other skill too to kill ppl off but what do you do when u see a cluster of 6 ppl in tw? do you pick off one by one with gushes? no u drop a nuke and kill em... same concept here too...

mmm true

ryukage

I was gonna say lol, that would be like Wizards never casting BIDS and BT, and lemme tell you. A wizard who never uses those two skills in a TW needs to be removed from his guild.

But seriously, the only major issue I see with Seekers in TW is just how vulnerable they are. They only get one speed skill (and its slower than BOTH of the BM and Sin speed skills, go figure), they only get one reliable stun, and no in-class anti-stuns. And of course they can't hold a candle to the raw survival power of a barb. Not to mention, their dps is a lot more limited since interval gear doesnt do for swords like it does for fists.

^ For those reasons, Seeker currently lacks the functionality to be a true front-line class in TW. HA alone doesn't prevent you from being CC'd, and consequently, demolished. However, they will be able to drop a nuke (Gemini) more often and with less cost than other classes. They also seem to have a better mid-range gameplan than BMs would, so that can possibly be exploited for the greater good as well.

I see their main strength in general as being the most flexible class when it comes to range and melee together, but that alone doesnt equal much factor (and thats moreso an issue with 5.0 being so horridly broken). But again, Gemini is a badass skill. If a Seeker lets his BM friends take the lead, run in and pop a few stuns for him, the Seeker can then be the clean-up crew with Gemini Slash, and possibly help pick off the leftovers with his ranged attacks, or Voidstep into someone's face for the last blow.

Good party set-ups and communication will make Seekers a threat in TW, for certain. But I'd still hope their 79/100 skills help patch up a few of the class' blatant flaws.

Euer_Bunny - Sanctuary

i only have a 25 seeker, so I don't know much and maybe someone has mentioned it already. But reading up on skills I saw Adrenal Numbness and a seeker at 29 can get 12 defense level and at level 100 get 30 defense level... Along with HA, it can be a tank if voidstep or another skill can keep aggro. Before release, i had envisioned that the seeker can be an alternative to barbs that hits a bit harder since there isn't always one around for groups. In addition, they have debuff skills that can help a party if needed. I can't believe that it's a fail class just yet.

Plus, I like seekers over the mystic in the early going. I am rooting for its success.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Anyone else think that Seekers are more likely to stat vit than BMs these days? Probably not as much as the old vit axe BM builds but they may have more hp than a BM as well.

Serafe - Heavens Tear

I think that Seekers are simply too new to tell what will happen! There are so many directions you can go with them. Like when all BMs used to be VIT happy axe builds, and now the majority went to interval. Or TW cata pullers going hybrid sapph/VIT shard instead of pure HP. The game evolves, the best tactics are narrowed down after months of experimentation. Seekers will find their niche.

The biggest bonus over BMs I see for the Seeker thus far is the boost to a high level party. The buffs, debuffs, and support skills seem great so far!

Ruumatsuku - Lost City

so far with my seeker, I can see the potential of it being useful both as a PVE and PVP character. Just gotta choose the right skills for a target of a certain class for PVP. I rarely PK with my veno, but I'm gunna have fun learning the hard way of PVP with my seeker. XD