Seeker = Busted BM?
Comments
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Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Until they get to endgame.
World chat: need a 4-5 aps DD for nirvana
Seeker:
It'd be the same almost as taking a veno, for the amps they have. (-the purge for the 2nd boss)
But seriously, I believe my "metal & phy debuff" is roughly at 22% atm and stack that with stance to - def lvl by 18 at it's current lvl for me would be quite a lot of added dmg...It's all preference though.0 -
Could you show an SS of what the debuff looks like.
Because if it's just a regular phy def debuff then they'll largely be ignored as demon ironwood, barbs devour, and cleric phy debuff will all be superior.
Also whats the duration of it and how long is the cooldown.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
You underestimate the damage of a 5 aps char, and if HF and subsea is applied then they benefit from it as well, I doubt casters would become useful even with that.AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »Soul Shatter (level 10)
Casts a debuff on the target that lowers their Fire and Earth resistances.
The critical strike rate for Fire and Earth skills are increased by 50%, the damage is increased by 100%.
Lasts for 20 seconds.
I'm quite certain this will make Wizard and Psychic much more useful in instances, possibly enough to get in on some of those Nirvana's with the 5 APS crowd. After all, imagine how much more damage they can do with Subsea and HF applied as well. As it is, those two classes hit some of the highest damages we have seen. They might actually steal aggro from a 5 APS character, who will also benefit with...
Heart Shatter (level 10)
Casts a debuff on the target that lowers their Metal and Physical resistance.
Any Metal or Physical damage received is increased by 30%. Lasts for 600 seconds.
That makes up for a lost 5 APS character, plus adds the possible 2.0 APS of the Seeker.
Honestly, I think Seeker might just be the perfect balance for all the classes the more I look at their skills.
And besides, even if it made caster damage even close to 5 aps damage (it wouldnt) just the fact that you need a seeker for it, who alone are kinda mediocre PvE wise, makes it irrelevant.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
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Sukinee - Heavens Tear wrote: »When it comes to a Seeker with perma LA, it's not really worth it considering the fact that you can tank a lot better with HA. .
Remember that Sin's tank in Light armor all the time.Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »Being stance based,a Seeker cannot function on a macro like the other classes.
Agreed, it makes them more of a twitcher combo based class.
So all those who are used to just using 1 kind of attack for most situations are gonna find it difficult
With demon spark it hits at 2 aps.
As much as I hate to say this, but I'm going to, we dont know what they're in for with a demon sage spark. Being a skill based class they might actually get a -channeling demon spark O.o;;
I see great potential for this class if played correctly...which would need more than just a good macro.
Seekers to me feel lopsided at first. Not a true tanking class. In PvP, maybe mass PVP they'll carve out a nice niche for themselves along side wizards, but in 1v1 without the use of their shatters they might not see the light of day.
I've been enjoying my Seeker thus far, and have been contemplating using Light armor, simply because they're skills are primarily ranged; but on the other hand, they posess other skills which are crowd controller skills and relatively constant.
A seeker feels more like a class that will be fixed on Shattered Cloud Island doing Public quests, or spinning like a top in "Zhenning" areas, rather than running BH's.
It would be nice to see what Seekers get as far as demon and sage, though I do hope it will be something that they'll benefit from, being they're not a true melee class.Good intentions are like peeing yourself in dark leather pants, you get warm feelings inside, but it doesn't show.0 -
Rivi_V - Heavens Tear wrote: »What if you put a Fire or Earth Shard on your wep? Does that mean you will get 50% crit with every whack? o.O
Pls tell me the maths in that question xD
Easy. No, because the skill, as it plainly says, is applied to Earth and Fire skills.Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »You underestimate the damage of a 5 aps char, and if HF and subsea is applied then they benefit from it as well, I doubt casters would become useful even with that.
And besides, even if it made caster damage even close to 5 aps damage (it wouldnt) just the fact that you need a seeker for it, who alone are kinda mediocre PvE wise, makes it irrelevant.
Yes, I may have underestimated them, but there is no doubt a Seeker would still be useful in such a squad. In general, a full squad would have 5 DDs and a Cleric, each DD doing roughly 20% of the damage. Now, take out one of them, add in a Seeker, you have lost 20% of your damage before the Seeker's is applied. The Seeker though can increase the physical damage of everyone by 30%, enough that the four 5 APS DDs and a Seeker can deal more damage than if they had that extra DD.
So in either case, a Seeker is still a good choice to have.0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Could you show an SS of what the debuff looks like.
Because if it's just a regular phy def debuff then they'll largely be ignored as demon ironwood, barbs devour, and cleric phy debuff will all be superior.
Also whats the duration of it and how long is the cooldown.
It's not technically a phy debuff, it's a metal and physical amp. So it will not override/be overridden by any other debuffs, it also lasts 360 seconds at level 2.
But it's only castable on mobs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I lol'ed at this threat. I saved a link to it and gonna compare with the ones in 6months+ :P You guys also remember those threats about sins being bad for fcc, bosses, etc when RT expension just came out? Just take a look at wc now and compare :P It's to early for them to be usefull yet. They need to make their place in squads, ppl need to try new things, combos and builds. It will take a while to do so. Skill description is just text :P
The best thing about seekers is they might break this aps-mania that is really getting more annoying each day. The skill-combo based play seems intersting to me also.
@ Rawrgh : aps is just an argument to enter wc squads the first few times for vana (or any other instance). Enter once, and do good, and you will be asked again. I'm 2.86 aps sin, and get asked all the time, mostly as soon as I log on. Those "need 4-5 aps for vana" make me lol. Do 1 good run, and ppl will ask you again.
@ Leolin : that LA and mp shard idea is actually interesting. I thought I figured out how to build my seeker, but you got me doubting again lol I suppose it's ppl like you (that try different things) that will lead to the discovering of the class hidden potential.0 -
both mystic and seeker are just hybrid chimeras of other classes. and as a result they are extremly underpowered.
all we can do is wait to see what there late game is like, but by the looks of it they just dont seem all that impressive or all that powerful. and seekers in a party will probaly be the last to be chosen in a party especially with sins-barbs-BMs to choose from. seeker i can only see being squaded for his AoEs. thats it.
something needs to be done about both classes.0 -
The seeker useful? Maybe, but still won't make casters useful. Even with that buff being on for what, 10 seconds every minute I believe? 5 aps DD gets 500% weapon damage CONSTANTLY. There's no way seekers will make casters even comparable in PvE.AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »Easy. No, because the skill, as it plainly says, is applied to Earth and Fire skills.
Yes, I may have underestimated them, but there is no doubt a Seeker would still be useful in such a squad. In general, a full squad would have 5 DDs and a Cleric, each DD doing roughly 20% of the damage. Now, take out one of them, add in a Seeker, you have lost 20% of your damage before the Seeker's is applied. The Seeker though can increase the physical damage of everyone by 30%, enough that the four 5 APS DDs and a Seeker can deal more damage than if they had that extra DD.
So in either case, a Seeker is still a good choice to have.
And besides, it will still be more difficult for seekers to find PvE squads. If you're a 5 aps DD then you have 4 open spots available. If you're a seeker you have one open spot available that you're competing with any other seekers that could want to go.It's not technically a phy debuff, it's a metal and physical amp. So it will not override/be overridden by any other debuffs, it also lasts 360 seconds at level 2.
But it's only castable on mobs.
o.o
It can't be used on bosses?
If so then I don't see seekers being useful at all.@ Rawrgh : aps is just an argument to enter wc squads the first few times for vana (or any other instance). Enter once, and do good, and you will be asked again. I'm 2.86 aps sin, and get asked all the time, mostly as soon as I log on. Those "need 4-5 aps for vana" make me lol. Do 1 good run, and ppl will ask you again.
That's nice, but you can't deny that a higher APS DD will make the run faster.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »Seeker's rank equipment is Heavy, ijs. But yeah, I was planning to stash a couple of my Sin's gears for my Seeker when he hits 99.
your sig scares me..anyways yeah jsut make the seeker LA cause in fact you dont need ha anymore to tank anything in this game.0 -
HappysHAIL - Harshlands wrote: »Allow me to preface this post with a general disclaimer: I understand that its very early in the release and hard make an accurate judgement on the class in its entirity. These are just a few observations Ive noticed in the past few days that I felt would be nice to gather some input on.
At this point Im struggling to see the usefulness of the Seeker in general. At best, it's a sword BM with absolutely zero utility and a few more ranged skills. That, at times, can use various magic attacks.
The overall factor that I see being a major problem contributing to the detriment of the class is the lack of any form of utility. The only guaranteed stun is Voidstep which lasts 3 seconds, for a 3 minute cool down and costs a single spark. Every other form of disable (stun, seal, sleep, silence) is entirely percent based, and limited in number. You're also not counting on JUST the skill to proc, but often the stance associated with it as well.
No marrows, no antistun, no personal heal, no leap ... what you're left with is a sword BM with zero form of CC who's skills take even longer to cast. Yeah, sure, you have a skill to decrease channel time but I see it having limited uses with a minute cooldown.
The buffs are kinda cool... but Im not sure that 30 def level out weighs marrow + p.def buff. You can make situational arguments vs the two to no end, Im sure. Having to carry mirages to buff yourself is just annoying. Not a problem just.. annoying.
At the moment, all I see is being constantly stunned and out ranged by .. well, everything. Ranged attacks are cool, but when you're attacking arcane / la classes with elemental damage ...
Anyway... Thoughts? Too soon to tell? Maybe Im missing something?
Agreeable. Seekers do lack CC skills such as stun/sleep/seal
In pk, compared to other classes, they lack the ability to disable opponent... teleport stun has a long cooldown, parcheblade dance has only 20% chance to trigger and quidproquo only silence for 1 sec... assasins an psychics fare much better in PK
Another side of PVP would be TW.. here i could see seekers being more useful... lots of their skills are aoe and a couple are ranged attacks. Gemini slash deals quite a handful of aoe damage and with the soulseaver minouet stance which has 50% chance to proc, it deals even more damage and att/def lvl debuff... all this with no chi cost!!
and if you have a handful of seeker in TW assisting each other, the more the chances of debuffing a target there is and i think could be quite devastating to a target
They are not aps class so in PVE instances they're more of a support class.. with the 3 debuffs that does not share the same icon as other classes debuffs with only 15 sec cooldown (besides soul shatter). more amps=higher dmg=monster die faster
unless ur doing rebirth in which case i see their aoes being quite useful, similar to wizards DB role
still a lot of what ifs but heres just mysimple analysis of the class so far
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Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »The seeker useful? Maybe, but still won't make casters useful. Even with that buff being on for what, 10 seconds every minute I believe? 5 aps DD gets 500% weapon damage CONSTANTLY. There's no way seekers will make casters even comparable in PvE.
And besides, it will still be more difficult for seekers to find PvE squads. If you're a 5 aps DD then you have 4 open spots available. If you're a seeker you have one open spot available that you're competing with any other seekers that could want to go.
o.o
It can't be used on bosses?
If so then I don't see seekers being useful at all.
That's nice, but you can't deny that a higher APS DD will make the run faster.
The 30% phy and metal dmg amp works on bosses too... I think seeker will be wanted alot ofr that alone, and they have a skill that reduce def lvl by 20 for 8sec, and its cooldown is like 3sec.0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »The seeker useful? Maybe, but still won't make casters useful. Even with that buff being on for what, 10 seconds every minute I believe? 5 aps DD gets 500% weapon damage CONSTANTLY. There's no way seekers will make casters even comparable in PvE.
o.o
It can't be used on bosses?
If so then I don't see seekers being useful at all.
it can be used on bosses it doesnt work in pvp is all and the buff lasing for 10 seconds is wrong that buff lasts for awhile and it stacks with other debuffs we have.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ty Nowitsawn
Everything has its beginnings, but it doesn't start at one. It starts long before that... The world is born From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 10. 10 becomes 100. taking it all back to one solves nothing. so long as zero remains... One.. Will eventually grow to 100 again.0 -
Whoever asked for the SS for the icon of the status effect from Heart Shatter here ya go:
http://i55.tinypic.com/34hg95y.jpg
Also, Id like to point out that a lot of the arguments I see here in favor of Gemini Slash overlook one very important thing: 3.3 seconds to Channel, 2.0 Seconds to cast. Thats 5.3 seconds to get the skill off --hopefully without being stuned, slept, silenced, or otherwise disabled or attacked during it. Using Blade Affinity really cuts down on the cast time for it, but this basically means that you'd only be able to cast this skill once per minute. Whether in TW or open field, its a huge amount time with too many variables, especially for what people seem to be predicting as "one of the better" skill for seekers. I guess vacuities are your best friend.0 -
Leolin - Dreamweaver wrote: »why not build light armor, spec some magic maybe and mana gems, use the high added BASE damage on abilities to make up for lacking strength, be versatile as taking long range and short range attacks, have the mana to keep your aoes up constantly, and you know...just exist in a nice fashion.
...nah I'm crazy, obviously seekers have to be pure damage build HA class...
actually, this is what i was thinking as well. i haven't rolled one yet, but from the skill descriptions, fac members playing them, and squadding with a few, i see them having more potential as a "magic swordsman" than as a heavy sword user/basher.
either HA sharded out in +mana or +mag gems, or LA with some allocated to mag and more shards for mana/mag and some HP, is what I'm thinking, to keep up with the high mana costs such a class endures.Things said during a Twizted faction PK session:
Slayer_of_Souls: you guys are such suck ups. none of you have attacked twid.
Twiddzly(fac leader): no, sere killed me already.
Slayer_of_Souls: he's out there waiting for us, isn't he. i'm gonna die.
Sereneai: b:sin why don't you come find out.
Kinglkaruga: you go first dule.0 -
Their minimum weapon req kind of enables them to use equal lvl HA and LA at the same time.
So I guess it comes down what the player wants to go with.
I myself am plannin to go HA+LA mix at 9x (one reason being I can simply re-use my archer armours).0 -
Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »Their minimum weapon req kind of enables them to use equal lvl HA and LA at the same time.
So I guess it comes down what the player wants to go with.
I myself am plannin to go HA+LA mix at 9x (one reason being I can simply re-use my archer armours).
It does, but the way I put it relies on not being able to use HA because you'll allocate the around half a point of str per level into magic, or vitality and the other half a point or so from dexterity into magic or vitality again. With sharding mana shards I believe seekers will also have to shard in some citrines/vitality gems end game as well.
Someone rich enough I would honestly suggest restating to LA, using all vitality gems, using any unallocated points for your blade requirements into magic, and having a very powerful long range physical damage dealer/aoer at your disposal...of course you cannot play like this.
In leveling I would generally suggest the standard HA build with simple allocation into vitality and nothing into magic, perhaps a mana shard if deemed necessary but could be likely made up for by charms. And heavy armor allows you to pve with simple sword strikes as well. But later game (maybe 80-90) restating to minimal sword stats, switching to light armor and putting unallocated points into magic with potentially a few MP shards in your gear to make you into a long range physical damage casting machine.
Honestly, end game with vit gems...hell I might even suggest wearing arcane robes with -channel. But that will likely remove all pve aspects from your character...or might actually work out in the long run, hard to tell tbh.0 -
So you can have terrible defenses while also having terrible attack power?
"having a very powerful damage dealer/aoer" and "stating unallocated points into magic" don't mix.
Seriously are you an alt of yulk?Whoever asked for the SS for the icon of the status effect from Heart Shatter here ya go:
http://i55.tinypic.com/34hg95y.jpg
Ah thanks. Then it looks like seekers will be useful for constant debuffing on bosses in PvE.
Still wont be easy to find squads though, if you're a 5 aps DD there's 4 spots in a squad for you, if you're a seeker there's only one.
Still, it's nice to know that they can be viable in PvE.
Edit: can they keep it up? Like can they keep the debuff constantly on the boss or is the duration too short/cooldown too long?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
The debuff lasts like 330 seconds. Most of their debuffs last long.
So in most squads they would simply need to debuff once, at the max twice.0 -
Iv got an idea, how about PW make 1 class and that 1 class has every single skills that all the others classes have? Then make the other classes non playable any more. So when you come to play PW, you only get to play 1 class only and you will be able to build your class however you want. Meaning people cant QQ classes being OP or anything as you only have 1 class to play and your the one that built it that way..!!! b:pleased
lol Im JK about that b:chuckleTime is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »The seeker useful? Maybe, but still won't make casters useful. Even with that buff being on for what, 10 seconds every minute I believe? 5 aps DD gets 500% weapon damage CONSTANTLY. There's no way seekers will make casters even comparable in PvE.
And besides, it will still be more difficult for seekers to find PvE squads. If you're a 5 aps DD then you have 4 open spots available. If you're a seeker you have one open spot available that you're competing with any other seekers that could want to go.
o.o
It can't be used on bosses?
If so then I don't see seekers being useful at all.
That's nice, but you can't deny that a higher APS DD will make the run faster.
It might not make them able to completely replace 5 APS classes, but it can at least make a Wizard or Psychic more useful than before. And just a clarification, it lasts 20 seconds and can be cast every minute.
As for bosses, it can be used on them. I've already used Heart Shatterer on Qingzi in my FB29, so it is not limited to just normal mobs. Besides, bosses are still monsters anyways, they simply are of a boss status.0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Edit: can they keep it up? Like can they keep the debuff constantly on the boss or is the duration too short/cooldown too long?
It varies per debuff. I'm told the earth/fire/water/wood debuffs are shorter but more powerful.
The metal/physical amp is weaker (like 2x% amp when max I believe) but it lasts 330 seconds at level 1 and appears to gain 30 seconds per level (360 seconds on my level 2 amp)
Yes, it works on bosses, I meant that it can't be casted on players.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
im just going to say, all the bold read font was hurting my eyes so i didn't read it, but!... from what i have found out, been told, and discussed, The Seeker was made to be direct competition with a sin in PK the sin is way OP in PK, so pwi in their very right mind made a sin Killer.
just my 2c but well thats how i see it, The seeker is made to be a technical class that relies on Debuffing its opponent to increase it dmg out put, as far as i can see, sing swords have an aps of 1.11, and fist have an aps of 1.43, off the top of my head that is, so by my rough theoretical judgment, id say, the seeker as a 3.33-4aps is ver possible, hell if you wanted to im sure you could make a 3aps pole hammer barb, if you have the money that is... I think the seeker will be a great help in game,
The 59 AoE attack, that most can only hold for 5 seconds when they pot and charm, go make a cleric, and test how long you can hold BB up for at that lvl, in my thinking, that skill wont be a great skill and be able to be held up for long periods of time until 75+ at the least. then again, im a barb, who loves my seeker, so what would i know?
cheers0 -
Insta magic cast ftw....caused sever wipes even.0
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Edit: posted in the wrong postTime is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz0
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No seeker cannot beat a sin. Sin is still OP in PvP. Sorry but anyone playing seeker as an answer to their sin woes, you will be disappointed.Dagnatic - Sanctuary wrote: »im just going to say, all the bold read font was hurting my eyes so i didn't read it, but!... from what i have found out, been told, and discussed, The Seeker was made to be direct competition with a sin in PK the sin is way OP in PK, so pwi in their very right mind made a sin Killer.
And we only have one speed buff. Sins have 2(!) so they can still make quick get aways. And we have no good chi building skills, Sin gets free SPARK almost every minute >>. No antistun to boot(for head hunt).
Basically, seekers will have to spam their first four skills(low cooldowns). And opening with Heart Shatter is like a wasted opportunity to do damage.0 -
<---level 47 sin, tore my friend lvl 45 seeker apart..ijs ):[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sig credits to Myra
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<---level 47 sin, tore my friend lvl 45 seeker apart..ijs ):
<----lvl 60 seeker tore my lvl 70 friend sin apart...and then his lvl 75 sin friend too.
survived their stuns, then attacked with full magic..debuffs proced nicely.
Only prob I see with sins, ofc all other classes have this problem.. Is them shadow escaping.. Which I think they shouldnt be able to do while in -aggro stance-
edit to add -ijs-0 -
The problem with sins?
Stun + Silence + Sleep + Root + Occult + Anti stun + Infinite Chi
..And then they run away.0
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