Seeker = Busted BM?

HappysHAIL - Harshlands

Allow me to preface this post with a general disclaimer: I understand that its very early in the release and hard make an accurate judgement on the class in its entirity. These are just a few observations Ive noticed in the past few days that I felt would be nice to gather some input on.


At this point Im struggling to see the usefulness of the Seeker in general. At best, it's a sword BM with absolutely zero utility and a few more ranged skills. That, at times, can use various magic attacks.

The overall factor that I see being a major problem contributing to the detriment of the class is the lack of any form of utility. The only guaranteed stun is Voidstep which lasts 3 seconds, for a 3 minute cool down and costs a single spark. Every other form of disable (stun, seal, sleep, silence) is entirely percent based, and limited in number. You're also not counting on JUST the skill to proc, but often the stance associated with it as well.

No marrows, no antistun, no personal heal, no leap ... what you're left with is a sword BM with zero form of CC who's skills take even longer to cast. Yeah, sure, you have a skill to decrease channel time but I see it having limited uses with a minute cooldown.

The buffs are kinda cool... but Im not sure that 30 def level out weighs marrow + p.def buff. You can make situational arguments vs the two to no end, Im sure. Having to carry mirages to buff yourself is just annoying. Not a problem just.. annoying.

At the moment, all I see is being constantly stunned and out ranged by .. well, everything. Ranged attacks are cool, but when you're attacking arcane / la classes with elemental damage ...


Anyway... Thoughts? Too soon to tell? Maybe Im missing something?

Evict - Heavens Tear

The continuous AoE, while it does deal a lot of damage/sec, drains far too much MP for a HA class. I also read somewhere that people are only able to keep it active for 5 seconds charmed and potting.

This was a pretty spot-on analysis of the class so far, but there'll inevitably be 1~9000 people calling QQ.

Sukinee - Heavens Tear

The only problem that I have with the Seeker class is that there is a lack of healing ability, although *fingers crossed* there will hopefully be one as a 79 skill. Also...those party buffs requiring a mirage wth -_-

I like playing the Seeker so far because not only are the personal buffs cool but so are their aoes. I think ther Seeker is meant to be a challenging class in which you have to pay attention when hitting stuff and getting the timing right to use certain skills.

I can see them being very useful in FF because again they have the aoes and wear heavy armor, and it's pretty much a given that anyone can tank in heavy armor it all really depends on the skill of the player and their hp.

I really look forward to seeing how players become creative with their Seeker so maybe I could use them as an example. Any class is useful it all depends on how one plays them.

lizrau

Who cares if it's not useful in PvP? Or maybe it will be, we don't know. Some people don't PK, so that leaves PvE.
So far from what I've seen, Seekers are pretty good in PvE, which I think the Devs wanted this expansion to be, Mystic: PvE, Seeker: PvE, not new classes to be OP in PvP like the Tideborn were. Maybe they were actually listening to us, and this is their small and devious attempt to make the game a tad bit more challenging and harder.

The only reason I created a Seeker was not for its usefulness, (which is yet to be seen as I play it) But because I liked the idea of it. Some people will do just that. Let them play a character/ role how ever they want, don't let them be worried wheter they will be good or not. A great player with limited resources, will find a way to be useful if they really love the class and aspect of what they are doing.

Some people like to play, not PK and be OP...ijs.


/end rant.

Evict - Heavens Tear

lizrau wrote: »

Who cares if it's not useful in PvP? Or maybe it will be, we don't know. Some people don't PK, so that leaves PvE.
So far from what I've seen, Seekers are pretty good in PvE, which I think the Devs wanted this expansion to be, Mystic: PvE, Seeker: PvE, not new classes to be OP in PvP like the Tideborn were. Maybe they were actually listening to us, and this is their small and devious attempt to make the game a tad bit more challenging and harder.

The only reason I created a Seeker was not for its usefulness, (which is yet to be seen as I play it) But because I liked the idea of it. Some people will do just that. Let them play a character/ role how ever they want, don't let them be worried wheter they will be good or not. A great player with limited resources, will find a way to be useful if they really love the class and aspect of what they are doing.

Some people like to play, not PK and be OP...ijs.


/end rant.

I'm sure people on Lost City and Harshlands agree with you.

lizrau

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm sure people on Lost City and Harshlands agree with you.

Ha-Ha. You're so funny. If they find Seeker not useful in PK, don't QQ about it and go make a class that is. End discussion, lol.

Evict - Heavens Tear

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

but there'll inevitably be 1~9000 people calling QQ.

Quoting myself for truth.

lizrau wrote: »

Ha-Ha. You're so funny. If they find Seeker not useful in PK, don't QQ about it and go make a class that is. End discussion, lol.

The point of this thread was to analyse the the questionable ability Seekers have in both the PvE and PvP aspects of the game. We don't care how you decide to play your character and whether or not you decide to carebear for the rest of your gaming career, because, believe me, I can tango with you all night on that subject.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

lizrau wrote: »

Who cares if it's not useful in PvP? Or maybe it will be, we don't know. Some people don't PK, so that leaves PvE.
So far from what I've seen, Seekers are pretty good in PvE, which I think the Devs wanted this expansion to be, Mystic: PvE, Seeker: PvE, not new classes to be OP in PvP like the Tideborn were. Maybe they were actually listening to us, and this is their small and devious attempt to make the game a tad bit more challenging and harder.

The only reason I created a Seeker was not for its usefulness, (which is yet to be seen as I play it) But because I liked the idea of it. Some people will do just that. Let them play a character/ role how ever they want, don't let them be worried wheter they will be good or not. A great player with limited resources, will find a way to be useful if they really love the class and aspect of what they are doing.

Some people like to play, not PK and be OP...ijs.


/end rant.

Until they get to endgame.



World chat: need a 4-5 aps DD for nirvana


Seeker:

Leolin - Dreamweaver

why not build light armor, spec some magic maybe and mana gems, use the high added BASE damage on abilities to make up for lacking strength, be versatile as taking long range and short range attacks, have the mana to keep your aoes up constantly, and you know...just exist in a nice fashion.

...nah I'm crazy, obviously seekers have to be pure damage build HA class...

Evict - Heavens Tear

Leolin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

why not build light armor, spec some magic maybe and mana gems, use the high added BASE damage on abilities to make up for lacking strength, be versatile as taking long range and short range attacks, have the mana to keep your aoes up constantly, and you know...just exist in a nice fashion.

...nah I'm crazy, obviously seekers have to be pure damage build HA class...

Seeker's rank equipment is Heavy, ijs. But yeah, I was planning to stash a couple of my Sin's gears for my Seeker when he hits 99.

Leolin - Dreamweaver

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Seeker's rank equipment is Heavy, ijs.

and what's a veno's rank armor? :P

Evict - Heavens Tear

Leolin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and what's a veno's rank armor? :P

Haha, point taken. It's not an absurd idea to be honest. Seekers will have enough Dex to wear LA just by fulfilling Sword/Blade requirements.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Leolin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

why not build light armor, spec some magic maybe and mana gems, use the high added BASE damage on abilities to make up for lacking strength, be versatile as taking long range and short range attacks, have the mana to keep your aoes up constantly, and you know...just exist in a nice fashion.

...nah I'm crazy, obviously seekers have to be pure damage build HA class...

an LA seeker with points in magic and +MP shards, that is probably the most fail thing I've ever heard of other than something suggested by yulk.

Leolin - Dreamweaver

they've been out a couple days yo, obviously it's fail to play a class a little differently than normal people do yo.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Lol, LA has been out for years now and it's pretty unanimous that it's the worst armor you can get defence wise.


MP shards have been out for years now and it's pretty unanimous that they're garbage.

And adding Magic for a class that gains no benefit from magic attack? Yea, exactly.

Zeratulus - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol, LA has been out for years now and it's pretty unanimous that it's the worst armor you can get defence wise.


MP shards have been out for years now and it's pretty unanimous that they're garbage.

And adding Magic for a class that gains no benefit from magic attack? Yea, exactly.

Agreed that LA is useless. Besides with the str you need to use blades might as well go HA. However, for a few situational uses I can see a few mp shards MAYBE being useful. Obviously since the mp drain on the aoe is ridiculous the only real practical uses I can see for the sustained AoE are in an RB with mp auras. Using an arcane helm, much like archers do occasionally in the Gamma range to keep up barrage, with the helm having an additional + mp stat and a few mp gems might be enough to make it sustainable. Since apparently it works with bp a seeker with his +30 def levels doing more aoe damage than a wiz while also self healing massive amounts from bp might be a valuable member of a squad.

Leolin - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol, LA has been out for years now and it's pretty unanimous that it's the worst armor you can get defence wise.
tho seekers havent been out during this time, also archers and sins wear the most fail armor ever yet seem to **** everyone

MP shards have been out for years now and it's pretty unanimous that they're garbage.
again, seekers havent been out for years, garbage for previous classes maybe, this class needs a lot of mana for skill spam tho as it's hybrid caster

And adding Magic for a class that gains no benefit from magic attack? Yea, exactly.
which still adds mana/mana regen, still helps the character despite the fact it doesnt add damage, but this aoe ability (if you decide to build around it, and it seems to be one of the most powerful abilities in a seekers arsenal) requires extra specific stats to make work to maximum potential. throwing away a class because you wont go beyond years of preconceived notions is silly and foolish to me

Have to put something here qq

Leolin - Dreamweaver

you know, taking into consideration...arcane seeker then

yeah, equally seemingly rediculous, but why not. Also decently equiped to boost mana/mana regen...**** maybe I'll make this (goes to do math)

Sukinee - Heavens Tear

When it comes to a Seeker with perma LA, it's not really worth it considering the fact that you can tank a lot better with HA. Although I will probably get a set of LA for my seeker and fight some things with it for the lolz, but I will be full time HA.

Honestly if one is really that concerned about mp and mp recovery there are some pieces of gear that can make up for it, the problem with dumping points into magic is that there is so little of an impact in mp recovery/mp total unless you dump a lot of points into magic, not really worth it imo.

Some pieces of mp recov/mp total gear for melee-ers, just to name a few include an mp tome, TT80/90 protection belt and the green FF helm/arcane hat. You can also probably get some 3* gear with some mp bonuses added onto it.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Being stance based,a Seeker cannot function on a macro like the other classes.

So all those who are used to just using 1 kind of attack for most situations are gonna find it difficult

Below is a rough build at 101 as to what I envision my seeker to be like (this can change on experience though)

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6af4f70282bedb32

With demon spark it hits at 2 aps.

lvl10 stances give a 20~30%% chance for the status to be inflicted and if it goes well, you can be looking at a good amount of DPS. However this highly depends on the person playing and the timing.

For example, lvl10 Parchedblade dance gives bloodlet status for 20 seconds. Time your stalagstrike atk with this, its an aoe atk which deals base phy dmg + 5611 to all targets in 12m radius and stuns for 3 seconds. And for stances, you can get bloodlet activated again just after u use this.

The lvl49 stance and aoe is ever more powerful and reduces target's atk and def lvls. And these dont even use chi

I see great potential for this class if played correctly...which would need more than just a good macro.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary

I'm pretty sure the seeker was meant to be mainly a pve (and maybe pvp with the later skills, who knows) class that you absolutely need to know how to play. The people power leveling them are probably in for a rude awakening when they realize they have no idea what to do with all the skills. This, imo is a very complex skill setup, and you'd need to experience them in different situations to use them to their maximum ability. All of the "use in tandem" stuff seems really important.
I think just because they're HA and use swords doesn't mean they're a fail copy of the BM. I played another mmo with a class similar to this one called a force blader. (Saying nothing more, don't wanna get in trouble, but google is your friend)

Anyways. This was one of the most devastating classes in the game, but you really had to understand everything about the class to play it well.
I'm thinking when the rest of the seeker skills come out they will be less "fail bm".

My two cents. >.>

AuroraLucia - Archosaur

Soul Shatter (level 10)

Casts a debuff on the target that lowers their Fire and Earth resistances.
The critical strike rate for Fire and Earth skills are increased by 50%, the damage is increased by 100%.
Lasts for 20 seconds.

I'm quite certain this will make Wizard and Psychic much more useful in instances, possibly enough to get in on some of those Nirvana's with the 5 APS crowd. After all, imagine how much more damage they can do with Subsea and HF applied as well. As it is, those two classes hit some of the highest damages we have seen. They might actually steal aggro from a 5 APS character, who will also benefit with...

Heart Shatter (level 10)

Casts a debuff on the target that lowers their Metal and Physical resistance.
Any Metal or Physical damage received is increased by 30%. Lasts for 600 seconds.

That makes up for a lost 5 APS character, plus adds the possible 2.0 APS of the Seeker.

Honestly, I think Seeker might just be the perfect balance for all the classes the more I look at their skills.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Not to mention one of their tandem aoes also decreases target's atk and def lvl by 10 for 3 mins.

AuroraLucia - Archosaur

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not to mention one of their tandem aoes also decreases target's atk and def lvl by 10 for 3 mins.

Yes, that as well, Hopefully it will stack with others, as that will just create tons of damage amplifications.

I just thought of something. A boss with HF, Subsea, Amplify, the Seeker debuffs, and Cleric debuffs, and Tangling Mire all on. How much damage would a 5 APS Blademaster (or Assassin) do in that short of time?

Rivi_V - Heavens Tear

AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »

Soul Shatter (level 10)

Casts a debuff on the target that lowers their Fire and Earth resistances.
The critical strike rate for Fire and Earth skills are increased by 50%, the damage is increased by 100%.
Lasts for 20 seconds.

I'm quite certain this will make Wizard and Psychic much more useful in instances, possibly enough to get in on some of those Nirvana's with the 5 APS crowd. After all, imagine how much more damage they can do with Subsea and HF applied as well. As it is, those two classes hit some of the highest damages we have seen. They might actually steal aggro from a 5 APS character, who will also benefit with...

What if you put a Fire or Earth Shard on your wep? Does that mean you will get 50% crit with every whack? o.O

Pls tell me the maths in that question xD

Lu$t - Sanctuary

ugh got to he jumbo red text and ignored the rest lol. anyways I see seekers having a decent roll in namely tw and heres why:

1) although it uses 2 sparks and has a long cd, we can unstealth sins. a good bit of problems would be sins ganking clerics. now you most likely will have to be lucky about this but you could pop one out of stealth. a more practical use however will be when stuns finish their "combos" out usually down mid path they'll stealth. pop that buff, pop them back out of it and finish them off.

2) not saying this skill pwns all but listen to these stats when Gemini Strike is maxed:
Attacks the enemies within 12 meters to the target,
and deals base Physical damage, plus
450% of weapon damage, plus 4915.
Use on a target with the Spirit Bore status to deal massive Metal damage
and reduce the target's Attack and Defense level.

450% is hella a lot not too mention the spirit bore proc really does add massive metal damage, youre looking at a 1 shotter from *gasp* 25 meters away*. You can't ignore this fact imo. Let's toss in a probably hypothetical which will be used someday in tw: 3 sparked -> channel spell -> ion spike (gets 35% metal debuff proc which is 100% chance to land) -> gemini slash= gg. even at low levels right now i can ion -> channel -> 1 shot with GS.

I know these 2 reasons arent all the reasons why seekers are or aren't anything worth mentioning but let's be realistic, they will have their place in tw still. Also, that +30 def level means everyone with a blessing tome just got their damage negated. Atk/Def lvl matters way more in pvp then pve (hence why the 3rd stance isnt really meant for pveing)

this reminds me of how psychics were shtty classes lol (according to most of the population). now who do you see running around 1 shotting people xD

Lu$t - Sanctuary

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the seeker was meant to be mainly a pve (and maybe pvp with the later skills, who knows) class that you absolutely need to know how to play. The people power leveling them are probably in for a rude awakening when they realize they have no idea what to do with all the skills. This, imo is a very complex skill setup, and you'd need to experience them in different situations to use them to their maximum ability. All of the "use in tandem" stuff seems really important.
I think just because they're HA and use swords doesn't mean they're a fail copy of the BM. I played another mmo with a class similar to this one called a force blader. (Saying nothing more, don't wanna get in trouble, but google is your friend)

Anyways. This was one of the most devastating classes in the game, but you really had to understand everything about the class to play it well.
I'm thinking when the rest of the seeker skills come out they will be less "fail bm".

My two cents. >.>

sorry for double post xD but (you know i you jelly ;3) people plvling them wont = not knowing how to play the class >.< some of us have fast catch times/learn fast D= the tandems arent really hard to learn either with a bit of thinking lol

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

I love these thread. b:dirty
Does everyone also think the shatters skill should be use able to players ? b:surrender
And void step seem unavailable on certain area, anyone know the area ? b:surrender
I notice void step has same range as assassin shadow teleport but has cast time . .

Lu$t - Sanctuary

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I love these thread. b:dirty
Does everyone also think the shatters skill should be use able to players ? b:surrender
And void step seem unavailable on certain area, anyone know the area ? b:surrender
I notice void step has same range as assassin shadow teleport

a debuff that long on a person would.....suck.... lol
and so far i have been able to use voidstep in every instance. have yet to do tt or lunar on my seeker though lol

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Lu$t - Sanctuary wrote: »

a debuff that long on a person would.....suck.... lol
and so far i have been able to use voidstep in every instance. have yet to do tt or lunar on my seeker though lol

Hm ya b:chuckle
Maybe make it has much more less duration to player just like how they make mystic skills deal much more less damage to players.
Anyway i can't wait seeker showing it's true potential o.o
If i think a giant sword user, what comes to my mind is they capable to dealing huge damage. 0.o . .
Quid Pro Quo may become useful ?

#edit rather than double post

I wonder does every stance and activation moves work like north sky and staggering ?
If yes isn't :
Soulsever Minuet + Gemini Slash = 450 % + 4915 + 7325 damage
Maybe :
Soulsever Minuet > Blade Affinity > 1 spark > Voidstep > Ion Spike > Heartseeker > Gemini Slash 0.o
Maybe can use spark pot . .
Tough dunno of disable and he he, but without voidstep all those skill can be cast from 20meter range

Norala - Dreamweaver

Excuse me for being logical here, but... Seeker JUST came out. Give it time to show it's true strengths. Heck, the class isn't even fully there yet(no sage/demon/79/100 skills, for instance), so it's like trying to complain that the the unfinished bridge down the street collapsed with ease.

Plus, yeah the skills may be lacking at first glance, but they could be very potent when used properly. After all, what class CAN be good without an experienced player to use it? (or a huge wallet, but that's another subject altogether)

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The point of this thread was to analyse the the questionable ability Seekers have in both the PvE and PvP aspects of the game. We don't care how you decide to play your character and whether or not you decide to carebear for the rest of your gaming career, because, believe me, I can tango with you all night on that subject.

Getting childishly personal in an argument is the first sign of a lack of reasonable retorts...

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

an LA seeker with points in magic and +MP shards, that is probably the most fail thing I've ever heard of other than something suggested by yulk.

You've obviously never seen my BM in action.b:surrender