Anyone else feeling replaced?

Zeelia - Raging Tide

*kicks the dirt with shoe*


SO Mystics are here huh, oh and no new tameable pets in the new lands.
I admit to not knowing a lot about Mystics, but from what I have seen they are a lot like veno/clerics. Sorta.


Without this expansion the feeling that venos are being slowly outcasted already had started, from Zeal genies to being classed as a non AOE DD therefore not needed for FC.

We arnt good enough without a herc // nix and now I can see we wont be good enough for squads since this new hybrid came out.


I'm QQing. And I am not ashamed : x

**** I never QQ let me have this one time.

What are your thoughts on the new Mystic and this BS about no new pets?

Mooy - Heavens Tear

Mystic can't debuff.

Jeshi - Dreamweaver

they should let venos tame the new mobs and that's bs that the mystic can tame pets.

Ayida_ - Heavens Tear

Mystica can't tame pets, they get one as a skill. I'm assuming the pet gets replaced as you level, My mystic is only level 10 so far but I don't much like the pet aspect.
Once you summon the pet, you can't put it away (if you can, I don't know how) It needs mana to do it skills, if it doesn't have any you can give it some of yours.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

my mystic is only lv5-i got annoyed at the crowds of KSrs, and decided to wait on messing around with her, to decide if she is worth the bother by watching others. and atm, i dont like what im seeing. my daughter made a mystic, and has been working on her all afternoon and evening, has the first pet, and really hates the thing, and that you cant put it away. she did find that you can get rid of him by logging off.

but unless i see a better looking pet, im not gonna go any further-that is one freakin ugly critter!

Ayida_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Mystica can't tame pets, they get one as a skill. I'm assuming the pet gets replaced as you level, My mystic is only level 10 so far but I don't much like the pet aspect.
Once you summon the pet, you can't put it away (if you can, I don't know how) It needs mana to do it skills, if it doesn't have any you can give it some of yours.

Mooy - Heavens Tear

Ayida_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Mystica can't tame pets, they get one as a skill. I'm assuming the pet gets replaced as you level, My mystic is only level 10 so far but I don't much like the pet aspect.
Once you summon the pet, you can't put it away (if you can, I don't know how) It needs mana to do it skills, if it doesn't have any you can give it some of yours.

4 summons. Some can AoE one can absorb damage. The first summon can stun target for 5 sec. You get a skill to absorb it as lvl49. Their damage is same as veno's pet at high lvl....only hp and def different. Summon get higher hp while pet get high def.

gelnd

I'm greatly enjoying the mystic, so far. It does seem something of a veno/cleric combo. The pet is freakin ugly, but in a really cool way. I don't think it'll replace veno... after all, venos debuff, pet lure, and can put out some rad melee damage in fox.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

gelnd wrote: »

I'm greatly enjoying the mystic, so far. It does seem something of a veno/cleric combo. The pet is freakin ugly, but in a really cool way. I don't think it'll replace veno... after all, venos debuff, pet lure, and can put out some rad melee damage in fox.

Rad melee damage... I disagree. At midgame, you're going to be repairing so often on a LA build, it makes it pointless to do. HA is moderately better, but the repairs on your weapon are... Stupid expensive. I was getting 60k repairs after every TT run, and when casting, did **** for damage. I'd have to debuff a mob to do the same damage to it as an Arcane Veno would do to a non-debuffed mob.

Using the same weapon and a pure magic build, I'm able to kill mobs twice as fast, or faster.

Arcane Veno does little melee damage in FF, and despite the PDef boost from FF, is squishier than, say, an Archer in LA of the same level.

They need to make 'magic fists' for Fox Venos. I want to still debuff, and do massive physical damage in Fox Form, and not be restricted to magic weapons. >_> Since they aren't, I'm getting close to just using my Veno for PVE, and forgetting completely about PVP/endgame on my Veno (uh, that is, if I actually play PWI ever again).

Akumugetzu - Lost City

i thought about using a mystic untill i watch a video and saw that mystic uses mp to "summon" their pet. I personally didnt like that idea since as an arcane veno when im killing mobs and I become low on Mana I let my pet fight mobs while i meditating to recover, but i suspect they can just recover that lost MP anyways. Howeveer, I personally havent known anyone right now that has one. I might want to try one once I get a little more info about them.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

My mystic is lvl 11 currently , but from tyhe impression he gave me , and the skills he currently has , it seems a great support character. I made him in a second account so he can team up with my cleric or venomancer . Once he is lvl 60+ imm excited to try his combos along with my alts.

As for pets , they are ok , but i kill most things on my own anyway.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

my mystic is only lv5-i got annoyed at the crowds of KSrs, and decided to wait on messing around with her, to decide if she is worth the bother by watching others. and atm, i dont like what im seeing. my daughter made a mystic, and has been working on her all afternoon and evening, has the first pet, and really hates the thing, and that you cant put it away. she did find that you can get rid of him by logging off.

but unless i see a better looking pet, im not gonna go any further-that is one freakin ugly critter!

i don't know about utility in game, but mystics' pets get much better looking. walking around archo on my main, i saw one "pet" that at first i mistook for a player, it looked better outfitted than the mystic...

maestro120

I'm assuming the OP was about feeling replaced in squads for instances so forgive me if I'm wrong.

Anyway... but yes Venos have the debuffs on mobs/bosses which mystics lack so you would figure that this alone should give venos a leg up on their new competition when it comes to making that final spot.

Well sorry to say... whether through ignorance or apathy... nowadays most players don't value a venos debuff very much in the first place anyway. b:sad

Plus... BM's Clerics and Barbs all have debuffs of their own which match or exceed what the veno has.

The sad fact of the matter is that party play now is all about damage, tank, healing or party buffs. So if you want to regularly get into squads you better be able to bring at least one or more of the above. And while its true that veno's amp, purge etc... does contribute directly to the damage part of the equation... none of that makes a bit of difference if the majority of the player base which makes up PWI for whatever reason (pure ignorance in my view) don't see it that way.

So basically you have a scenario where a mystic and a veno apply for that last spot in a high level BH run. Seriously folks... assuming similarly geared... who do you think is going to get it ?

A Herc veno would have shot (tank) but all others need not apply.

You know I honestly think now that the game has simply left venos behind. I've only been playing since December 2010 (yep... a newbie) and my first character was a veno. When they had the recent sale of 50% off legendary pets I jumped at the chance of owning the fabled Herc, seeing my self as finally getting a chance to enjoy multi-play which is really what this game is all about (and why I started playing it in the first place). I now bitterly regret that purchase as it seemingly hasn't made me any less of an unwanted toon other than the few times the squad can't find a tank. The rest of the time they don't want to even hear that I can also contribute with amp, purge or chi passing.

My veno is now moth balled and have since re-rolled a BM and Cleric. Will definitely be trying the mystic though as it does sound interesting.

Zeelia - Raging Tide

Playing for how long I have, and the time spent on making her great feels as though its been thrown back into my face, I dont want to simply reroll. She was and is my main.

I don't have a herc, I chose not to, I like the freedom of being a veno.

Whilst you all keep saying a Mystic cant tame pets/debuff/amp I'm pretty sure like said before me half the pwi population didnt know venos could either.

And the pets we can tame are pitiful, lets be honest they may look good but normal mob pets are ****.

The only choice we really have at the 'free pet market' is Glacial walker or Cystaline magmite. The rares are either bought or tamed by high levels in a scarily competative market.

I was looking forward to having the option of new and exciting pets in the new land.
Sadly the last fun vice a veno had waiting for her was apparently never coming in the first place.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

".....freedom of being a veno". well said!

i started with this game back in '08, before the Glacial Walker appeared, and most players were using wolves, Eldergoths, and a few had discovered the Crystaline. very few had hercs, and, at that time, those who did were looked on by some as a kind of cheater, who used money instead of time and skill to have a tough pet. now? everyone has hercs, and those who dont are the ones looked down on as too lazy to raise the money to buy a herc.

from what i was hearing last night on local chat in the new area, the fugly pet is "OPed"....wonder if that means the end of the reign of the butterball, and a mystic sitting out squads, generating MP for her pet while everyone else is actually fighting? dunno. havent been back on the game yet today.

what time i spent yesterday was 99% on my veno, looking for new catchable pets and doing the new little quests. oh, and checking out the new WBs- that was fun, though i got wasted twice-they changed the frames on all pets, and i always judged the power of a WB by the 'scrambled eggs' on either side of the name frame. these now are tiny, and, for those of us players with low vision, really hard to see if you dont know what to look for.

so, personally, atm i dont see myself giving up my lv82 veno. like Zeeila said, i've spent too much time working on her (with breaks to play a litle on my alts) to want to spend time on this new character. yes, they are interesting, and i will be watching others play them, but i started as a veno, and will be one until PWI closes down for good one day. and on that day, i will search for a Pserver, to go on playing a veno.

Zeelia - Raging Tide wrote: »

Playing for how long I have, and the time spent on making her great feels as though its been thrown back into my face, I dont want to simply reroll. She was and is my main.

I don't have a herc, I chose not to, I like the freedom of being a veno.

Whilst you all keep saying a Mystic cant tame pets/debuff/amp I'm pretty sure like said before me half the pwi population didnt know venos could either.

And the pets we can tame are pitiful, lets be honest they may look good but normal mob pets are ****.

The only choice we really have at the 'free pet market' is Glacial walker or Cystaline magmite. The rares are either bought or tamed by high levels in a scarily competative market.

I was looking forward to having the option of new and exciting pets in the new land.
Sadly the last fun vice a veno had waiting for her was apparently never coming in the first place.

IHazNutz - Dreamweaver

Well aside from a few other good things mentioned in this thread, one reason a mystic won't replace veno's in my eyes: hp/mp management = )

From a PvE standpoint the veno's ability to manipulate their own hp and mana is one of it's most attractive attributes. Sure mystics have pets, and I imagine they can and will do some pretty cool things, but it seems to me mystics will have to use a fair deals of pots/apoc etc to keep up with the dps a veno can mantain for free b:victory

Only time will tell for sure, but so far I'm fairly impressed about how well mystics seem to fit into groups, without necessarily replacing any paticular classes.

Now if only seekers weren't cheap knock offs of sword bm's (Please feel free to prove me wrong on this )

XSloth - Harshlands

IHazNutz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well aside from a few other good things mentioned in this thread, one reason a mystic won't replace veno's in my eyes: hp/mp management = )

From a PvE standpoint the veno's ability to manipulate their own hp and mana is one of it's most attractive attributes. Sure mystics have pets, and I imagine they can and will do some pretty cool things, but it seems to me mystics will have to use a fair deals of pots/apoc etc to keep up with the dps a veno can mantain for free b:victory

Not much beats a well timed hp or hp-mp stitch spell on a boss with a horrid aoe b:dirty

IHazNutz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Now if only seekers weren't cheap knock offs of sword bm's (Please feel free to prove me wrong on this )

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1017651
Not really proving wrong, (because I feel the same way) but they have some good points, seekers seem to be a more active way of playing


Personaly I dont feel venos are replaced because I rarely see them around anoymore. Back when I first played (4+ years ago) venos seemed more abundant.

ShaoliXen - Lost City

XSloth - Harshlands wrote: »

Personaly I dont feel venos are replaced because I rarely see them around anoymore. Back when I first played (4+ years ago) venos seemed more abundant.

Because the 5.0 APS craze wasn't in motion yet.

tweakz

Yesterday went to wave 5 in RB delta with a Lv. 85 Seeker with a +2 weapon as primary DD/ tank. Only did 3 runs in Happy Valley, and BM passed lead so we failed aura quests soon after.-AND: It was a smooth run. I worry more about wizards, and mine just hit 100.

Regarding Veno and MP recovery, wiz and probably others have their own ways. My wiz has about 75 less mag (both pure mag and at least Lv.100) but with Wellspring Quaff it has over 16,000 MP while my veno has ~10k. Both get 20% max MP for Celestial Eruption, so my Wiz recovers ~1.6x more MP per eruption as well as having a greater buffer. Glacial Embrace also helps recover 10 more MP per second. Both are capable of consuming MP beyond what they can recover depending on play style or needs. Just try using both myriads, Nova, and Malefic Crush every chance you get outside of RB, and you'll see a veno not able to keep up with MP. Wizards doing that much AoE is likewise going to deplete theirs. I prefer veno for many other reasons.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

IHazNutz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Now if only seekers weren't cheap knock offs of sword bm's (Please feel free to prove me wrong on this )

i started a seeker yesterday, and from looking at the skill tree along with the (VERY, VERY) early gameplay, i'm getting a good feeling. much of it seems to hinge on watching the opponent for the right debuff to proc then "triggering" it with the right skill, set it up the bomb then push the corresponding button. there's definitely not going to be any macro usage in playing a seeker, that much i'm certain of.

HP potting like there's a potion prohibition coming, early on, of course. like any other melee class, it seems. hopefully that'll ease up later, although with seemingly no self-heal, who knows.

and i'm REALLY looking forward to trying the level-59 skills for the seeker. quid pro quo...

flamingahole

I feel that this needs to be said.

Those of you who are worried about being 'replaced', why? Are you really that insecure about your class' abilities and your own ability to play that class? If you're even half decent at playing whatever class you've chosen for yourself then chances are you'll only be replaced if someone, not some class, with skills greater than your own shows up.

One more thing; it's just a game. Just have fun with whatever class you're playing.

Atria - Heavens Tear

I gotta tell you something:

The pets suck, it's like a squad member. It doesn't tank AT ALL. So anyone who is saying that Mystics are replacing Venos are just plain wrong.

You can't even tame the pets, you get it as a skill, and that's it. =/

Quizeburio - Raging Tide

I am very disappointed that there are no tameable pets in the new land, I saw several I would love to have. I have a mystic and I really don't think that it is any better then the Venomancer. I also don't use the pet since I can't put it back into the bag and it just get's in the way. And personally don't think the Mystic could ever replace the Venomancer
so I am certainly not feeling replaced. b:pleased

Aerilya - Sanctuary

To be totally honest, when I first got a good glimpse at a mystic's skill tree, I was a little worried too. I mean, come on, res buff, aoe heals, melee dps as well as magic? Lots going on there. But as cool as mystics are, and although they might provide some competition at the higher levels for venos, we cannot be replaced. I have a wizard friend who is now 101, just pks these days. But when she was in the 90's leveling up, she'd save a spot for me even though I was 5 or 6 levels lower, because she knew I was good at keeping the bosses debuffed and amped.
Let's face it, venos's are not going anywhere. And we are definitely not being replaced by veno wannabee's who lack the talent and charisma to tame their own pets. XD Also, I'd love to see a Mystic solo TT 3 squad mode.

xxxdsmer

mystic cant pass sparks to the cleric
mystic cant lure mobs like the veno can
mystic dosent have bramble that everyone melee likes in instances

sure, its a cleric/veno mix, but there's always gona be things veno can do that mystic cannot. just like there's always going to be things cleric can do that mystic cannot.

thoughts that mystic is going to totally replace veno or cleric or any other class for that matter are absolutely silly.

although i may start a mystic because there's been many times i wish i had great versatility like i get with my veno, but stood there wishing i could heal the cleric to save their butt and prevent a wipe in that fashion (rather than just throw my veno's pet at whatever's attacking them... i could heal the cleric and send a summon.. offensive help and healing help at the same time), or throw some heals at the barb to help the cleric keep him alive.. but i already know there's still going to be things that my veno would be able to do better than a mystic. mystic dosent replace anything, it just fits well in between the roles of other classes, but cant do either's job as well as the actual class.

Sheelarah - Heavens Tear

xxxdsmer wrote: »

mystic cant lure mobs like the veno can

just to be fair: mystics can lure w/their pets)

still I like venos more, coz their pets are much stronger. Mystic's heal is better (it casts much faster)... but their summons need it much more, so that's fair I guess))

tweakz

xxxdsmer wrote: »

mystic cant pass sparks to the cleric
mystic cant lure mobs like the veno can
mystic dosent have bramble that everyone melee likes in instances

All those are mainly valued at lower levels, and we're in the days of power leveling now. Also already noted that they can lure with their summons not that it has much value when mobs are cleared so fast w/ AoE or genie lure..

sure, its a cleric/veno mix, but there's always gona be things veno can do that mystic cannot. just like there's always going to be things cleric can do that mystic cannot.

Like change into fox form? Purge gets us into Nirvana and that's about it.

mystic dosent replace anything, it just fits well in between the roles of other classes, but cant do either's job as well as the actual class.

The class isn't done. They could come out with sage or demon skills that cause damage when they land and purge w/o having to shapeshift. They could even get an AoE amp. With the summon as a DD, and them as tank: they have much more versatility on their tank including range tanking, equip swapping, armor building, etc. In the end, it could come down to our lower cost of operation, but I think they'll get some L11 skills that take care of that too.

Vixter - Harshlands

i dont feel mystics replace venos. right now my mystic is 66, and my veno is (still) 97. venos have way more attacking skills than mystics, debuffs, the option of going into fox form for more p.def/slighty tanking ability and hitting physical DMG. our pets have way better stats than mystics, also. but for now, im taking a break from my veno and lvling on my mystic. ive been a veno for so long i need a little change. i still love my veno very much, and shes still helpful to me in having the ability to solo TT for my new mystics gear ^^ Although, i hope soon in the future i can at least get my veno to 99.

as for FC, i still feel venos are very useful in FC. if having a herc, u can tank every boss. I also feel our AOEs are strong enough to put a dent in the mass pulls.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Sheelarah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

just to be fair: mystics can lure w/their pets

They can? I don't see how with the current mechanics, nor have I found a mystic that knows a way.

They can drag, but not lure.

Oh - they might be able to lure using the halt and fly away trick; have to test that.

Fenrina - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They can?

Yes, they can. It requires decent timing on recasting the summon or other tricks, but they can. From the outside, it looks very similar to a veno pulling.

Honestly, if given a choice between a mystic pulling and a veno pulling, I'd take the veno. There are a lot more costs involved with mystic pulling. Veno pets can also be far faster and can attack at range for free. The Storm Mistress needs mp for ranged attacks.

Meyki - Sanctuary

Fenrina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, they can. It requires decent timing on recasting the summon or other tricks, but they can. From the outside, it looks very similar to a veno pulling.

Honestly, if given a choice between a mystic pulling and a veno pulling, I'd take the veno. There are a lot more costs involved with mystic pulling. Veno pets can also be far faster and can attack at range for free. The Storm Mistress needs mp for ranged attacks.

You can simply let the summon die.

xxxdsmer

Meyki - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can simply let the summon die.

thats another possibility. i dont see a summon ressurect anywhere in the mystic skilltree, so the mystic should be able to just resummon another, or even the same one (unless it comes back with reduced HP like we do when we're res'd... then another summon would be more appropriate to catch with)


and for tweaks: i'm actually liking the idea of the mystic, especially with its full time 80% pdef (and two elements, but meh) selfbuff that don't require going to another form to get a pdef selfbuff out of. so i'm not against mystics, but mystics will never completely replace a veno nor a cleric, simply be able to do some of both's job rolled into one character (so naturally they're not going to be able to do a cleric nor veno's job as good as either of their similar classes... even after 79/100 and sage/demon skills, which'll hopefully at least fix some of the much needed things mystic needs.. like some kind of self mana-gain skill)