Suggestions to 5aps OPness in PvE

Quilue - Sanctuary

PinkyRose - Archosaur wrote: »

In HARSHLANDS? There are TWO Nirvana worthy factions. One recruits 95+ The other one? You have to have Rank to even apply....not an exaggeration. Everybody else doesn't run Nirvana often enough to even worth being it. (hint hint, to those factions recruiting....)

Fire, to answer your question, Psychic have only two REAL spamabble skills...being Aqua Impact and...the other skill I can't think of right now...

Because Nirvana is a lvl 100 instance. Anyone lvl 100+ without rank 8 is really not trying. Now, tell us, what are you complaining about?

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ Spot : Atm there is a class-based racism that only gets stronger. A wizzie with a +12 rank9 weap will have more trouble finding a squad then a sin with hook and thorn for nirvana. Especially for Nirvana, but now also for tt, fcc and bh, squads want aps ppl. If you want to have the population devided in 2 groups, that's fine even though I find it very shocking to hear that kind of idea in 2011.
I'm more then willing to give up some of my damage output to get things back to balance, where wizzard deserves the title of DD just as much as a sin. I squad with ppl on nirvana and other not for their gear, class or aps. I go with ppl I like to play with. If it takes bosses to last a bit longer to bring back archers with bows, caster classes, barbs and all others aps is making to go extinct, I won't mind the slightest bit. I don't mind to waste my time on a game.

and who might this +12 R9 wizard who can't find Nirvana be? Tell us! I know most of the top casters on Sanct by name, and who is it that is having trouble finding Nirvana squads? Which one of them is not decked in out Nirvana second cast/R9 already? I think you exaggerate. Most of the better-geared wizards on Sanct have farmed Nirvana, and their damn gear reflects that. Maybe they're not getting into Nirvana because nobody is doing Nirvana. I know I didnt do Nirvana last night, did cube, DT, and JR. It's not double drop and Nirvana sucks.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Get an old school non-aps Barb to tank for you ?

But but but non aps barbs can only tank for slowpoke squads, hence they dont want to do it cause it would take long =(. I myself dont respond to WC "fast nirvana squad looking for aps", cause more ofthen than not I see cleric, 2 casters, possibly axe bm and I leave the squad. And I rather save my keyes to fast squads that take 20mins tops to finish 1 run =/. There are barbs that say they cant get nirvana, there are casters saying the same, finding cleric? Meh, still too many clerics to be taken by aps squads. Reason they dont squad together is that it takes longer than aps squads, pretty much yeah.

Nyxyo - Harshlands

what if you guys look at this aps thing all wrong?

for ppl who play lets say for 2 hour a day or less be or not be 5 aps wont matter at all since 2 hours is barely time do daily's maybe chat a little...help someone...pk 2-3 ppl and voiala...2 hours goneb:bye

for who play many hours is easy get a 5 aps character alt for farming purpose..is not hard at all and can be even fun and for sure rewarding... so in the end who really complain about 5 aps OP pve thingy?

nirvana is not a must i for one got nearly 300 keys since i find nirvana really boring...cant find regular party for nirvana when you play few hours a day...big deal...do other stuff

on other side tt 3-x nerf was unfair because is now possible to be farmed only by 5 aps teams ...is decent cash and is nice to have some new challenge...but tt 3-x was providing basic gear from tt90 to tt99 ...and in my opinion was one nasty nerf... not really related to 5 aps hate ...everyone should be able to attempt to farm his basic gear with out "press O"b:surrender

_Spot_ - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Because Nirvana is a lvl 100 instance. Anyone lvl 100+ without rank 8 is really not trying. Now, tell us, what are you complaining about?



and who might this +12 R9 wizard who can't find Nirvana be? Tell us! I know most of the top casters on Sanct by name, and who is it that is having trouble finding Nirvana squads? Which one of them is not decked in out Nirvana second cast/R9 already? I think you exaggerate. Most of the better-geared wizards on Sanct have farmed Nirvana, and their damn gear reflects that. Maybe they're not getting into Nirvana because nobody is doing Nirvana. I know I didnt do Nirvana last night, did cube, DT, and JR. It's not double drop and Nirvana sucks.

The must amusing part of all this is why would that supossed rank9 wiz wanted nirvana on the first place???b:laugh

Pwi if full of QQners

_Spot_ - Lost City

Nyxyo - Harshlands wrote: »

what if you guys look at this aps thing all wrong?

for ppl who play lets say for 2 hour a day or less be or not be 5 aps wont matter at all since 2 hours is barely time do daily's maybe chat a little...help someone...pk 2-3 ppl and voiala...2 hours goneb:bye

for who play many hours is easy get a 5 aps character alt for farming purpose..is not hard at all and can be even fun and for sure rewarding... so in the end who really complain about 5 aps OP pve thingy?

nirvana is not a must i for one got nearly 300 keys since i find nirvana really boring...cant find regular party for nirvana when you play few hours a day...big deal...do other stuff

on other side tt 3-x nerf was unfair because is now possible to be farmed only by 5 aps teams ...is decent cash and is nice to have some new challenge...but tt 3-x was providing basic gear from tt90 to tt99 ...and in my opinion was one nasty nerf... not really related to 5 aps hate ...everyone should be able to attempt to farm his basic gear with out "press O"b:surrender

PVE- QQ herc venos - QQ APS

PVP- QQ nixes- QQ sage bids QQ aps bms QQ sins.


Any guess what will come next?b:cute

Anemone_ - Harshlands

_Spot_ - Lost City wrote: »

PVE- QQ herc venos - QQ APS

PVP- QQ nixes- QQ sage bids QQ aps bms QQ sins.


Any guess what will come next?b:cute

You forgot QQ stealth.

But should be interesting if this new expansions classes brings up a new OP element.
If not the sins will continue to mass like tuna. (No fish pun intended lol)

I can't blame the community though, why would a cleric or barb wanna spend twice as long in a dungeon with a caster/archer when they could have a sin breeze through it.

Ahh well. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see how things develop. b:surrender

Quilue - Sanctuary

Half of this forum community simply don't make sense.

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into Nirvana if APS were nerfed:

What's the point of Nirvana if APS gets nerfed? How long would you like to spend in Nirvana for some 400k - 900k split? Would YOU, the caster QQing about not getting into Nirvana now, even want to enter Nirvana when that happens? How many seals and aggro resets would your cleric like to deal with before the run is finally over?

Face it, Nirvana would not be worth doing if APS was nerfed. Rank 9 pretty much places a hard cap on Nirvana prices, in fact, it's better to go for Rank 9 as a caster anyway. You people seem to think you would be invited, PMed for Nirvana like the high 5.0 DDs if APS were nerfed are you serious? Look around at the cat shops in RT, who is buying uncs right now? That's right...SINS, BMS, ARCHERS GOING FOR 5.0. Where would they be if APS were nerfed?

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into TT if APS were nerfed:

TT as it is now is NOT PROFITABLE if you cannot walk in with a squad of high DDs. Spend a couple of hours wiping at Steelation, Emp, and Arma only to walk away with nothing? How many of those runs will you go on before YOU, the caster QQing about not getting into TT, call it quits? The reason TT is farmed is because squads can do it QUICKLY. Many 3-3 runs come away with NOTHING, but that's not terrible when you can run multiple 3-3s in a reasonable period of time. 3-2 is a lot more consistent in terms of returns, but it still need to be done reasonably fast for the returns to be worth it. Do you really think people would spam TTs like they do now if APS was nerfed?

Do you really think TT prices would rise? What with chipped mats and all?

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into FF if APS were nerfed:

Are you ****ing serious? How many ways to level do you need before you will stop QQing? GTFO and learn to play. Pre-100 FF squads don't have many permasparkers anyway.

Lastly, nobody cares so much that they would exclude a wizard from a high DD squad. As it is now, 3 well-geared 5.0s and 1-2 clerics can do 3-3 just fine. The rest of the squad CAN be a wizard. If you are rejected from all instance runs, even FF, it's not APS' fault, it's because nobody likes you. LOL

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Look around at the cat shops in RT, who is buying uncs right now? That's right...SINS, BMS, ARCHERS GOING FOR 5.0. Where would they be if APS were nerfed?

You forgot barbs.

WTB> Raptures for nirvana claws

LeiMai - Raging Tide

ijs, but I like having a caster in squads. and I would much, much rather have a caster that knows what they are doing over some APS idiot sacrificing everything just to hit faster. Everything including HP, defences, and DPS.

Its nice to have a caster in squads, maybe that's because it takes some more skill to play the class than it does to spark> auto attack> take aggro and die because you have barely any HP thanks to all that APS> get resed> repeat except without buffs.

APS isn't everything in this game. You can have lower APS and do far more damage per second than people that hit faster. Players are a huge part of the problems in the game, they are the ones picking the squads. They are the idiots taking an "APS" DD with Hook and Thorn Daggers over a R8/R9 caster.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Half of this forum community simply don't make sense.

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into Nirvana if APS were nerfed:

What's the point of Nirvana if APS gets nerfed? How long would you like to spend in Nirvana for some 400k - 900k split? Would YOU, the caster QQing about not getting into Nirvana now, even want to enter Nirvana when that happens? How many seals and aggro resets would your cleric like to deal with before the run is finally over?

Face it, Nirvana would not be worth doing if APS was nerfed. Rank 9 pretty much places a hard cap on Nirvana prices, in fact, it's better to go for Rank 9 as a caster anyway. You people seem to think you would be invited, PMed for Nirvana like the high 5.0 DDs if APS were nerfed are you serious? Look around at the cat shops in RT, who is buying uncs right now? That's right...SINS, BMS, ARCHERS GOING FOR 5.0. Where would they be if APS were nerfed?

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into TT if APS were nerfed:

TT as it is now is NOT PROFITABLE if you cannot walk in with a squad of high DDs. Spend a couple of hours wiping at Steelation, Emp, and Arma only to walk away with nothing? How many of those runs will you go on before YOU, the caster QQing about not getting into TT, call it quits? The reason TT is farmed is because squads can do it QUICKLY. Many 3-3 runs come away with NOTHING, but that's not terrible when you can run multiple 3-3s in a reasonable period of time. 3-2 is a lot more consistent in terms of returns, but it still need to be done reasonably fast for the returns to be worth it. Do you really think people would spam TTs like they do now if APS was nerfed?

Do you really think TT prices would rise? What with chipped mats and all?

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into FF if APS were nerfed:

Are you ****ing serious? How many ways to level do you need before you will stop QQing? GTFO and learn to play. Pre-100 FF squads don't have many permasparkers anyway.

Lastly, nobody cares so much that they would exclude a wizard from a high DD squad. As it is now, 3 well-geared 5.0s and 1-2 clerics can do 3-3 just fine. The rest of the squad CAN be a wizard. If you are rejected from all instance runs, even FF, it's not APS' fault, it's because nobody likes you. LOL

Long story short : rank8/r9 makes lots of other gear pointless to get and the gears that are still useful besides that are mainly for -int. It's already harder to sell tt mats & uncannies/raps than before due to the rank sale,just imagine what would happen if they nerfed aps.

Fixing it would only cause more trouble now. I just think that they should add a new instance that requires a combination of classes and isn't dependent on aps & has good rewards,remember how rebirth delta used to be @ 1st? That's pretty much what I'm thinking of. Either that or change delta rewards and make it worthwhile.

Then do something about the insane attack power in the game since I don't see many melee classes that receive the low end of all that attack power in mass pvp still wanting to play when ranged DDs can make just as much money as them and dominate TW as well,just saying.

WnbTank - Archosaur

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

Fixing it would only cause more trouble now. I just think that they should add a new instance that requires a combination of classes and isn't dependent on aps & has good rewards,remember how rebirth delta used to be @ 1st? That's pretty much what I'm thinking of. Either that or change delta rewards and make it worthwhile.

Double coin drops in delta & casters are fixed PvE wise. I myself make 1m+(250k+/h) coins easy, after repairs doing full delta+frags+pages... Double them, thus making it good instance to farm(500k+/h). And change those 1m coin boxes, change them to something useful/take them off and add some high reward for finishing delta, like uncanny/rapture. Sure, casters cant still do it w/o barb/BM but making it like worthwhile doing, you`ll see those axe bms & barbs crawling from wherever they were hiding.

GoodStart - Dreamweaver

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

Fixing it would only cause more trouble now. I just think that they should add a new instance that requires a combination of classes and isn't dependent on aps & has good rewards,remember how rebirth delta used to be @ 1st? That's pretty much what I'm thinking of. Either that or change delta rewards and make it worthwhile.

I completely agree. A nerf is not the answer. New, challenging game content is.

Amidst a forum full of players bickering at one another, it is refreshing to see someone using their energy towards finding a way to make this game more enjoyable for everyone regardless of class/aps/etc.

b:victory

Suaver - Raging Tide

Well this thread blew up faster than I expected. After 30 minutes of reading everyone's posts from where I left off.

Anyways. Obviously I see the points of both sides. I myself tend to avoid taking casters along in Nirvana's (etc)... because I've seen the light and the dark.

Squads that suck with some hook and thorn dag sin, squads the suck even worse taking a caster along for his 99 key quest. Squads that rock with 1 r8 psy in them, and squads that rock even better with some +10 OP as **** sin **** face when I HF. I don't mind taking 1 non-aps person along. But then you get a non-aps barb and 1 caster, and you're left with only 2 others to take the dps weight off the squad. Barb will simply debuff the boss and stand around looking furry.

And I think the latter is precisely why. When the first boss dies during the 9 seconds my demon HF lasts... that's why you run APS squads.

If APS was nerfed, as a 5.0 BM in PvE, honestly I would more likely to ignore caster classes because it makes the APS people more valuable in that situation. As it stands now with a couple 5.0's you can easily exchange out a couple of the squad and run with casters and see little to no effect in time span. Nerf my aps making me less valuable, it will automatically increase the value of the last 1-2 spots I would usually be okay with exchanging.


As far as TT goes.. sure 3-3 is kind of like whatever. We all need it for our BH100. And most squads wont even run full anyways. Grab a cleric, fill some slots with whomever, and get it done for those sweet sweet Sacks of Observation.

Other than 3-3... I'd rather do in a 2 man squad (aside from 3-2). If my APS is nerfed, again that decreases my value as a slot in the squad, and even if it takes me an extra 30 minutes to finish a TT... I'd rather spend the extra 30 minutes running with a cleric, to make my time worth it. More mats for me. I do this now anyways, obviously... but why would I drop mats + increase time to expand squad?

Again its more likely to make me biased against class.

Just nerfing aps isn't going to make you more valuable. You still Pew Pew the hell out of me in PvP. And I nerf my own aps down to 2.86 unsparked by swapping ornaments so I can feel about 10% less of your R9 +12 soulsphere. APS aint **** in PvP.
Suaver deals 5663 damage (with axe + demon drake bash). ..tick tick.
Suaver takes 14557 damage (from R9 +12 soulsphere). One shot. Boom. Dead.
QQme.

Quilue - Sanctuary

^ makes a lot of sense.

The solution is clearly not to nerf other people's DPS potential because these instances are still heavily based on single target DPS to complete quickly and successfully. Nerfing APS isn't going to help anybody.

PvE must be changed so that other classes can also be effective, so that having other classes in the run can make it just as PROFITABLE.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Suaver - Raging Tide wrote: »

You still Pew Pew the hell out of me in PvP. And I nerf my own aps down to 2.86 unsparked by swapping ornaments so I can feel about 10% less of your R9 +12 soulsphere. APS aint **** in PvP.
Suaver deals 5663 damage (with axe + demon drake bash). ..tick tick.
Suaver takes 14557 damage (from R9 +12 soulsphere). One shot. Boom. Dead.
QQme.

True story.b:surrender


All in all,PWI's way of balancing things just blows.Making some casters useless in PVE while making melees get facerolled in mass pvp.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Half of this forum community simply don't make sense.

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into Nirvana if APS were nerfed:

What's the point of Nirvana if APS gets nerfed? How long would you like to spend in Nirvana for some 400k - 900k split? Would YOU, the caster QQing about not getting into Nirvana now, even want to enter Nirvana when that happens? How many seals and aggro resets would your cleric like to deal with before the run is finally over?

Face it, Nirvana would not be worth doing if APS was nerfed. Rank 9 pretty much places a hard cap on Nirvana prices, in fact, it's better to go for Rank 9 as a caster anyway. You people seem to think you would be invited, PMed for Nirvana like the high 5.0 DDs if APS were nerfed are you serious? Look around at the cat shops in RT, who is buying uncs right now? That's right...SINS, BMS, ARCHERS GOING FOR 5.0. Where would they be if APS were nerfed?

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into TT if APS were nerfed:

TT as it is now is NOT PROFITABLE if you cannot walk in with a squad of high DDs. Spend a couple of hours wiping at Steelation, Emp, and Arma only to walk away with nothing? How many of those runs will you go on before YOU, the caster QQing about not getting into TT, call it quits? The reason TT is farmed is because squads can do it QUICKLY. Many 3-3 runs come away with NOTHING, but that's not terrible when you can run multiple 3-3s in a reasonable period of time. 3-2 is a lot more consistent in terms of returns, but it still need to be done reasonably fast for the returns to be worth it. Do you really think people would spam TTs like they do now if APS was nerfed?

Do you really think TT prices would rise? What with chipped mats and all?

To the people who believe casters would somehow get into FF if APS were nerfed:

Are you ****ing serious? How many ways to level do you need before you will stop QQing? GTFO and learn to play. Pre-100 FF squads don't have many permasparkers anyway.

Lastly, nobody cares so much that they would exclude a wizard from a high DD squad. As it is now, 3 well-geared 5.0s and 1-2 clerics can do 3-3 just fine. The rest of the squad CAN be a wizard. If you are rejected from all instance runs, even FF, it's not APS' fault, it's because nobody likes you. LOL

Pretty much agreed, the drops inside the instances people run wouldn't be worth anything. The main reason uncanny crystals are bought are because Sins/BMs/Archers etc are going for 5APS. If there was no 5APS, the demand of uncanny crystals would be like 200K... R8/R9 > Nirvana, why the hell would people want Nirvana unless it's for interval?

Same applies for most instances... Why bother farming TT/Lunar if your squads are so slow that it costs more to do the TT/Lunar than the payout? 3M to open Lunar squad mode, heavy charm/repair/exp costs from not being able to kill bosses fast enough for the drops to compensate what you lose.

Face it lol, the whole reason TT was put into hard mode was to accommodate for the 5APS. TT would need to go back to "easy mode" or else it wouldn't be do-able. I'd like to see a non 5APS squad tank Arma, and without glitching it.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

^ makes a lot of sense.

The solution is clearly not to nerf other people's DPS potential because these instances are still heavily based on single target DPS to complete quickly and successfully. Nerfing APS isn't going to help anybody.

PvE must be changed so that other classes can also be effective, so that having other classes in the run can make it just as PROFITABLE.

Imagine if in Starcraft, Terrans had an incredibly easy time beating Zerg in the first 5 mins. Are they supposed to throw away all the small maps and only use giant maps that take 6 mins to cross?

Really there just shouldn't be a 10x disparity between comparably geared class DPS to begin with.

Yes one could bend over to design new instances attempting to make a flimsy bridge across a wide gap but the best option would be just to fill in the damn gap. Even if they make new instances they won't be throwing away or redoing the old ones.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

ill show you my OPness if you show me your OPness b:laugh

Quilue - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Imagine if in Starcraft, Terrans had an incredibly easy time beating Zerg in the first 5 mins. Are they supposed to throw away all the small maps and only use giant maps that take 6 mins to cross?

Really there just shouldn't be a 10x disparity between comparably geared class DPS to begin with.

Yes one could bend over to design new instances attempting to make a flimsy bridge across a wide gap but the best option would be just to fill in the damn gap. Even if they make new instances they won't be throwing away or redoing the old ones.

Small boobed Ast is not making sense

There is a 10x disparity between comparably geared DPS classes in DD against stationary single targets. That is only one aspect of DD, and it wouldn't be a problem if PvE wasn't dominated by single target DD alone, would it?

It's a matter of bad design. Consider the zergling. Zerglings, especially fully upgraded, probably has the highest DPS/cost. Take any unit in Starcraft, and I'll take equivalent cost, train lings, and level a base faster. But is anyone QQing? Wouldn't it be laughable if people QQed about this? Melee single-target DPS against a stationary target does not dominate Starcraft like it does in PvE PWI.

Yes, ladder maps in Starcraft at least have ramps or choke points so people can have a chance at defending against rushes. Map designs do take balance into account, so what point were you trying to make?

BlaZinBoy - Heavens Tear

to the magic people..

squad lay out for nirvana

4 mag arcanes
1 barb
1 cleric

now go make your stupid parties ok you guys are needed..u just need to form your own clicks.

bye and stop crying

TheDan - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ill show you my OPness if you show me your OPness b:laugh

I'd be scared if a **** star offered to show her o-*****..

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Small boobed Ast is not making sense

There is a 10x disparity between comparably geared DPS classes in DD against stationary single targets. That is only one aspect of DD, and it wouldn't be a problem if PvE wasn't dominated by single target DD alone, would it?

It's a matter of bad design. Consider the zergling. Zerglings, especially fully upgraded, probably has the highest DPS/cost. Take any unit in Starcraft, and I'll take equivalent cost, train lings, and level a base faster. But is anyone QQing? Wouldn't it be laughable if people QQed about this? Melee single-target DPS against a stationary target does not dominate Starcraft like it does in PvE PWI.

Yes, ladder maps in Starcraft at least have ramps or choke points so people can have a chance at defending against rushes. Map designs do take balance into account, so what point were you trying to make?

Nope, zerglings do not have 10x the dps as same cost in marines or zealots. If they did people would hate that game just like they hate sins.

Noone is saying that classes should have the same DPS, but they should be comparable enough so that all classes can get into squads and not be rejected for a lower-refined and lesser geared class with much higher DPS.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

BlaZinBoy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

to the magic people..

squad lay out for nirvana

4 mag arcanes
1 barb
1 cleric

now go make your stupid parties ok you guys are needed..u just need to form your own clicks.

bye and stop crying

1 cleric
1 barb
1 veno
0-1 psy
0-2 wiz
0-2 range only archer
1 "I dont need interval to be awsome" bm to HF

Quilue - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nope, zerglings do not have 10x the dps as same cost in marines or zealots. If they did people would hate that game just like they hate sins.

Noone is saying that classes should have the same DPS, but they should be comparable enough so that all classes can get into squads and not be rejected for a lower-refined and lesser geared class with much higher DPS.

And I did not accuse you of saying such, but there is no way to have classes have comparable DPS and not cause either horrific imbalance in PvP or not make instances unprofitable to farm. You already refuse to Nirvana as it is.

A single Zealot attacks twice at a time, but at a 22 frame cooldown

A single Zergling attacks once, but at an 8 frame cooldown (6 with Adrenal Glands)

Zealots deal 8/hit, but attacks twice, so thats 0.727272727 damage per frame

Zerglings deal 5/hit, 5 damage every 8 frames - 0.625 damage per frame

But look! What if the units were fully upgraded?

A fully upgraded Zealot stands at 11 damage per attack, 1 damage per frame right?

A fully upgraded Zergling stands at 8 damage per attack, 6 frames per attack, 1.3333 damage per frame

Consider now, that 4 Zerglings spawn for the price of a Zealot - more than 5x the damage output.

You really going to say, well casters would really QQ less if permasparkers of the same equipment cost have only 5x more DPS as opposed to 10x?

But like I said, nobody QQs about Zerglings because Starcraft is not dominated by single target DPS against a stationary target. You're better off comparing an RTS with this game's mass PvP instead of its PvE.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Mmm also armor in starcraft has a greater effectiveness against light attacks than strong attacks. The effective DPS of a zergling for example on an ultralisk is quite low:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wucEINuw5gg

Defenses in PWI on the other hand apply a flat defense % reduction so there's no dps benefit in doing a few strong attacks like a caster.

Also no matter what you choose to farm you make about the same money. The market always balances things out so super profitable instances get over farmed until they are the same price as anything else. Having longer instances just makes the mats more valuable.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

GoodStart - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Rather than make bosses phy immune, have them proc a heavy bramble that cannot be purged. Barbs would need to hold agro with flesh ream (a crazy idea, I know) and DD would likely have to be ranged, or at least not aps focused.

This would be my suggestion for new bosses in a new endgame instance, farmed for new endgame gears. Unfortunately, there will be no new endgame instance with the upcoming expansion..

b:cry

But WE CAN'T have barbs that hold agro. This is an outrage. We need barbs who are 5 APS and can do lots of damage. We need more barbs that are like BMs cause Sage is useless and no one wants Sage barb. b:laugh

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

Oh and another thing. You may like to interpret THIS post as a whinge against 5 APS <> Nirvana, but I like to think of it as cruise control and less hassle.

The other night I forked out a decent amount of green paper to finally finish my project. It doesn't involve Nirvana and it was only about 200 AUD per month, I planned ahead and used my brain. Now I don't have to farm Nirvana.

I don't have to get 200 Uncanny Crystals (as well as a holy dog, a party full of fluffers and a bong) to recast my armor.
I don't have to get 7 Rapture whatever-its-called to do that bull****.

So the best news about this is NIRVANA = PROFIT if I ever go. or if I can ever be bothered going. I've got my armor for 101. It probably even saved me the hassle of trying to stuff around coordinating Nirvana squads. Watching Nirvana Squads fail miserably as dickheads who haven't done it get up to speed. I can finally have fun. Best of all, all I have to do is just get DQ points, do crappy Wanted books for fun, grind in Valley of the Scarred for fun.

THIS piece (sorry, set) of armor is the best icing on the cake ever. b:pleased

* No stuffing around in TT (But who stuffs around in TT these days anyway with Mysterious Chips)
* No farking around in Nirvana (Oh what's that? You didn't get the element boss again -- Oh dear squad wipe with random n00b -- Oh what's that you didn't get the material you wanted... Oh dear)
* No 'OMG SPLIT UNCANNY CRYSTAL'
* No "OMG SPLIT RAPTURE I NEED FOR WEAPON" blub blub blub blub blub...

I just put all_my_worries_behind_me.

Oh but THIS armor set is expensive. The random bull**** on the forum says. Or so says the pleb crowd. I'm sorry you had TWO SALES over new years and Xmas if you can't budget for that OR you can't put in some extra OVERTIME at work and make a bit more cash in between and just put in about 700 ~800 dollars over 4 months... SHOCK HORROR and plan ahead. What's the use in telling ya?

Mark _ my _ worlds

Lets do some simple maths:

375 Days in _ a _ year
4 NIRVANA KEYS A DAY.

You get 3 keys from the Old Man
You get 1 Key from the BH100 quest.

So what is 375 Days * 4 Nirvana Keys a day = About 1500 keys per year

You also have to factor in %s of whether 'other' people have keys or not and if they've used them. So there is your second problem.

It costs 3 mil to get 'another Nirvana key and with a price of Rapture Crystals steadily not being close to 2 mil
You won't be doing more Nirvana runs. 1.6 mil at best, 1.4 mil at least.

Look on the bright hand side. Nirvana is the new found currency

AND with the bias against 'roles' in this game. With the odd bit of cash I could also restat from Sage Barb to Demon Barb. So I've got all my bases covered.

Also the 'other' armor is also has interval on it.

All bases? You're the man now dawgh. b:bye

Quilue - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Mmm also armor in starcraft has a greater effectiveness against light attacks than strong attacks. The effective DPS of a zergling for example on an ultralisk is quite low:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wucEINuw5gg

Defenses in PWI on the other hand apply a flat defense % reduction so there's no dps benefit in doing a few strong attacks like a caster.

Also no matter what you choose to farm you make about the same money. The market always balances things out so super profitable instances get over farmed until they are the same price as anything else. Having longer instances just makes the mats more valuable.

Nice try Ast

Your vid was of SCII, where they buffed Ultralisks' HP and gave them cleave, but really, if there was no cleave and if the lings were upgraded, the Ultra can't win. 3 Zealots could take 1 Ultralisk back in SC1, did you know that? 300 minerals worth of lings...psh that's not even a fight, and the old SC was played competitively for years. Yes armor was a lot more effective because it was a flat reduction to damage directly, but really, comparing tier 3 units against tier 1 and saying, oh its attacks are not as effective...just stop trying to compare PWI with an RTS seriously.

Also, longer instances quite possibly would NOT make the mats more valuable. TT mats can be chipped, Nirvana is not better than R9, the cost of which is related to gold. I can't see Nirvana be more expensive than R9 by any means - that would require gold dropping.

Suaver - Raging Tide

Says the R9 barb b:laugh
But I appreciate the fact you're one of few not QQ'ing!

Kinjeto - Raging Tide

Suaver - Raging Tide wrote: »

Says the R9 barb b:laugh
But I appreciate the fact you're one of few not QQ'ing!

I appreciate the fact, you appreciate my silly logics. b:laugh

But I think everyone is having a **** about the APS issue cause its the Nirvana farming issue.

Im with the other poster / earlier poster. Make a squad of your own.