Suggestions to 5aps OPness in PvE

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

Magic classes are no longer needed in instances like TT, Nirvana. I suggest to make a requirement for rainbow squad for these instances. No TT or nirvana w/o having a rainbow squad.

Second suggestion, make the bosses have the ability to have 2 stances-1 phis immune one and 1 magic immune. Lets say boss has 5mil hp, at 2,5mil the boss becomes phis immune so any aps class must have along side magic classes to compensate.
Also bosses can spawn minions that are phis or magic immune.

This would make the other classes worth in pve too.

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

Or just adjust the damage reduction on bosses so that using skills deals more damage than auto-attacking.

Occam's Razor, people. Your convoluted, short-sighted "fixes" are more likely to break the game than the 5 APS you so zealously deprecate.

grimreaperhc

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

Magic classes are no longer needed in instances like TT, Nirvana. I suggest to make a requirement for rainbow squad for these instances. No TT or nirvana w/o having a rainbow squad.

Second suggestion, make the bosses have the ability to have 2 stances-1 phis immune one and 1 magic immune. Lets say boss has 5mil hp, at 2,5mil the boss becomes phis immune so any aps class must have along side magic classes to compensate.
Also bosses can spawn minions that are phis or magic immune.

This would make the other classes worth in pve too.

Rei...ran...ren... what do you mean with colourful squads ?

Your second suggestion is a bit too harsh I'd say o.o I don't want to fight a boss for 30 minutes.

PS: I still take wizzies in my squads, they make my right hand shiny b:victory

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

1)doesnt solve the "problem" of physical DDers without 5aps (or equivalent dps)
2)nasty restriction (rainbow squad) if it's required
3)still, it could be bypassed (LF wiz,psy to open nirvana, 100k)
4)usually people manage to avoid mob spawns (let's go out for a walk boss-kun ^_^) but it's not a bad idea if properly implemented
5)elemental apo? blazing arrow? that should be considered too

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

First one: Would need to have it so that it regularly checks if you have all members. Otherwise people would just get a rainbow squad to open and then boot magic classes. Also with 10 classes soon then a lot will be left out. Squads would be:

5 aps barb

5 aps sin

5 aps BM

Veno for debuffs

Cleric

And then one lucky magic user, this is for nirvana ofc, for TT they wont be included.



For the second idea:

3-3 would be impossible, if the boss was immune to phy damage then sure you would need a mage, and you would need one that can tank the boss. So for a mage to be useful he would have to be able to be the main tank for TT bosses. Illusion armageddon can easily hit an arcane for 12k+ damage, I don't know many that can tank that. Also 5 aps users would be able to get around that with damage from blazing arrow, DBB, poison fang, whatever that sin skill is, etc.

Or just adjust the damage reduction on bosses so that using skills deals more damage than auto-attacking.

Melee users can cast skills faster than arcanes for the most part.

Okeano - Harshlands

This thread again. Guess what, your suggestion or anyone's suggestion about 5 APS doesn't matter because you are not talking to devs.

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

OK, true guys, rainbow squad might not be the best idea but how about...

Each Nirvana boss and TT boss could continuously buff himself with bramble when it is below 1mil Hp left(like Voidweaver does in SOT) and well, the venos cant keep up with the 4sec rebuff every time.


Then the Sins, Bms and Barbs would have to grab their Lunar bow and start pew pew it to death.

Xoria - Sanctuary

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

Magic classes are no longer needed in instances like TT, Nirvana. I suggest to make a requirement for rainbow squad for these instances. No TT or nirvana w/o having a rainbow squad.

Second suggestion, make the bosses have the ability to have 2 stances-1 phis immune one and 1 magic immune. Lets say boss has 5mil hp, at 2,5mil the boss becomes phis immune so any aps class must have along side magic classes to compensate.
Also bosses can spawn minions that are phis or magic immune.

This would make the other classes worth in pve too.

Just no. The people that seem to cry out the loudest are the ones that suffer from the PLAYERS excluding __ class from Nirvana/ TT/ FCC/ Lunar. Do not blame the game, point your finger at the players. When all else fails, make your own squad.

My friends grab me and take me to 3.33 APS- 5 APS runs. Yay, but big whoop.

I go with randoms that advertise for a cleric that don't have a single class above 1.25 APS. Last Nirvana I did had a wizard, psychic, veno, cleric (me~), sin and AXE BM. We still did the instance in about 30 minutes (give or take 5 minutes).

Seriously, high APS isn't that big of a deal. Even if you do find people that don't want to bring magic classes, they are already very close- minded, so do you REALLY want to go into the instance with them to begin with? I say no.

Adding rainbow squad requirement will just make things generally more time consuming. Sometimes it is hard enough as it is to get a BM. Sins aplenty, though. Adding ___ immunity boss will make a 40 minute (approx) instance turn into an hour and 30 minute instance. No. Thank. You.

MMOs were built to consume your time as it is. Don't feed them more ideas. Time= money for a reason.

Okeano - Harshlands

How about you learn to read?

GoodStart - Dreamweaver

Rather than make bosses phy immune, have them proc a heavy bramble that cannot be purged. Barbs would need to hold agro with flesh ream (a crazy idea, I know) and DD would likely have to be ranged, or at least not aps focused.

This would be my suggestion for new bosses in a new endgame instance, farmed for new endgame gears. Unfortunately, there will be no new endgame instance with the upcoming expansion..

b:cry

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

OK, true guys, rainbow squad might not be the best idea but how about...

Each Nirvana boss and TT boss could continuously buff himself with bramble when it is below 1mil Hp left(like Voidweaver does in SOT) and well, the venos cant keep up with the 4sec rebuff every time.


Then the Sins, Bms and Barbs would have to grab their Lunar bow and start pew pew it to death.

If this were the case then BMs, barbs, and sins, would be completely useless.


And, again, casters would have to tank. Mages and psys would have to tank, and how many mages out there can tank illusion lord? He easily hits for 12k+ on a mage with very good gears.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

All bosses have an attack speed debuff that is casted the moment the fight starts and is not removable other than by letting it wear off after 10 minutes have passed. However the boss will keep spamming the move making it impossible to not have the debuff on you while the fight is going on. The debuff would bring down attack speed to what it would be if no one had any - int gear on.

Sukinee - Heavens Tear

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

Magic classes are no longer needed in instances like TT, Nirvana. I suggest to make a requirement for rainbow squad for these instances. No TT or nirvana w/o having a rainbow squad.

Second suggestion, make the bosses have the ability to have 2 stances-1 phis immune one and 1 magic immune. Lets say boss has 5mil hp, at 2,5mil the boss becomes phis immune so any aps class must have along side magic classes to compensate.
Also bosses can spawn minions that are phis or magic immune.

This would make the other classes worth in pve too.

Requiring rainbow squads to even start an instance would take too long. What if you have a squad usual guildmates, that goes on let's say TT runs, and they're not a rainbow squad? I could imagine recruitment for these instances taking a lot longer than they really should be.

The second suggestion just seems more complicated than it really needs to be, although you could argue that the way PWE is handling the APS issue more complicated than it needs to be as well >_>

The best solution for a caster (such as a wizzy or psy) would be to find a squad of friends/guildmates that you can use and be a part of. I don't particularly like setting up a TT squad full of randoms, but rather I like to go with my faction. My psychic goes on TT run with her faction sometimes and it's a lot of fun.

Eoria - Harshlands

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

And, again, casters would have to tank. Mages and psys would have to tank, and how many mages out there can tank illusion lord? He easily hits for 12k+ on a mage with very good gears.

Archers can tank ranged too. kthxbai.

Of course...the easiest way to do Arma atm to have 5aps tank while 1 cleric BBs and other resses the dead. Can still do with archer tank (or any ranged tank actually, but archer is best) though. It's just that one cleric would need to get used to being Arma's virgin sacrifice.

Anyway...put bramble on the bosses = full archer party, baby. No two ways about it.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All bosses have an attack speed debuff that is casted the moment the fight starts and is not removable other than by letting it wear off after 10 minutes have passed. However the boss will keep spamming the move making it impossible to not have the debuff on you while the fight is going on. The debuff would bring down attack speed to what it would be if no one had any - int gear on.

How would it scale for people who have different base aps? If 3.33 base aps got reduced to 1.43, I doubt the game could tell the difference from 3.33 aps and 1.43...

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Archers can tank ranged too. kthxbai.

Of course...the easiest way to do Arma atm to have 5aps tank while 1 cleric BBs and other resses the dead. Can still do with archer tank (or any ranged tank actually, but archer is best) though. It's just that one cleric would need to get used to being Arma's virgin sacrifice.

Anyway...put bramble on the bosses = full archer party, baby. No two ways about it.

Pretty much... if every boss had bramble then squads would be 1-2 cleric(s) and 4-5 archers.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just no. The people that seem to cry out the loudest are the ones that suffer from the PLAYERS excluding __ class from Nirvana/ TT/ FCC/ Lunar. Do not blame the game, point your finger at the players. When all else fails, make your own squad.

^ this b:surrender

GoodStart - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Pretty much... if every boss had bramble then squads would be 1-2 cleric(s) and 4-5 archers.

I am not convinced this would necessarily be the case, especially with two new classes just around the corner. Either way, the all elf squad you mentioned above demonstrates how potential new content could be aimed at regulating the "necessity" and/or "OP-ness" of 5 aps without nerfing it.


I would like to point out that I do not oppose aps as much as I am a proponent of squad diversity and dynamics. Working together with squad members of different classes to achieve a common goal is much more fun than auto attacking. If new content were capable of equalizing profit amongst the classes, I reckon even 5.0's would agree.

Yulk_owns - Lost City

Actually a somewhat suggestion as a yes and no... Do you know how its even more difficult for getting rainbow squads? Might be a good idea. On the other hand, mages are slow, clerics are the only lucky mages because they have superior support casters. So kind of undecided, great idea but expect even more let downs.

As for phys. immune bosses, no, just no. There is already huge DMG reduction, don't want to make every phys. class not able to do anything at 50% HP... archers would become unwanted at endgame, as they are less likely needed now.

5APS isn't OP, its the spark burst. Seriously, 5 APS archer with only less than 3k p.atk per hit is obviously reduced. My archer have like almost 7k p.atk phys. attack with an xbow and it gets reduced to like 600-800 DMG, that is likely 10% DMG I am doing to a particular boss. If a caster ends up with something like multi-cast, or something that makes them permanently spark, they would dish out more DMG (or heals?) than the 5APS. 5 normal attacks < Aqua impact (or gush). To me, I find chi the ridiculous idea of an MMO. If you want to suggest a nerf, take out the spark itself.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Or perhaps you can have bosses that seal people after getting hit by them a certain number of times.

(I think one of the door openers in abaddon might have started doing something like this.)

vbarbie

~edited~

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Just do a 60 seconds cooldown on spark.
There's no good reason to demon spark every 12seconds. It's meant for burst damage not sustained damage.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

How would it scale for people who have different base aps? If 3.33 base aps got reduced to 1.43, I doubt the game could tell the difference from 3.33 aps and 1.43...

It would check the weapons of everyone in the squad and make their attack speed the base for that particular weapon. Even with my tiny bit of programming knowledge I know that could be done without much difficulty.

Lets use your speeds as an example ( I don't actually know the attack speeds of the weapons so the numbers may not be accurate but you get the idea)

Someone has 3.33 aps and the weapon is a claw, which has, without ANY attack speed buffs or - inverval, an attack speed of 1.43. The game would check the characters weapon and see that it is a claw. The game knows the base speed of the claws and the debuff reduces your attack speed to that base speed of 1.43

Yulk_owns - Lost City

vbarbie wrote: »

FFS MAKE A SIN , BUY THE APS GEAR AND SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!!! Like we ex-barbs/clerics/wizards/psy's DID ........damnitttttttttttttt





This **** is getting anoying ................... for like the 1000000000000th time already

Sounds like someone got bitten by a kitten... Venoes make deadlier 5.0 than sins IJS.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just do a 60 seconds cooldown on spark.
There's no good reason to demon spark every 12seconds. It's meant for burst damage not sustained damage.

Even sages outdo demon spark sometimes with sage spark as if people can just get 5.0 without demon spark. Spark burst 1 is broken already and you don't even need to be 5.0 to do that every 10 seconds.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just do a 60 seconds cooldown on spark.
There's no good reason to demon spark every 12seconds. It's meant for burst damage not sustained damage.

You'd also have to make sure that it's shared across all sparks, otherwise it'd just lead to people chaining the lower ones while the third spark is on CD.

But the 60 seconds would only solve that. It still wouldn't make people take that many lower APS characters, since even with 3.33 aps and unsparked, the DPS is pretty good.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

can someone please explain how 5aps "breaks the whole game?"

I fail to see how it does tbh. At the end of the day, your fac mates and friends should be willing to take you on rainbow runs anyways, and not everyone is 5aps...

I'm a wizzie too, and I know how frustrating it is that our dps at 10x is worse than a 9x sin's, but it's simply part of the game. I knew what I was getting into when I made my wizard, and you should of too. We've NEVER been a good PvE class. In fact, we've always been the worst.

Edit: 1k post ftw b:cool

Okeano - Harshlands

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Even sages outdo demon spark sometimes with sage spark as if people can just get 5.0 without demon spark. Spark burst 1 is broken already and you don't even need to be 5.0 to do that every 10 seconds.

Spark burst 1? I would say that even the fact that people get chi for free is broken.

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

I am satisfied to see that people have learned to completely ignore Yulk's posts. The only people that reply to him are people trolling him. The forums have matured, they have matured indeed.

Oh right, this is an APS QQ thread. Let's see..what can I possibly contribute to this topic that would not cause people the want to flame me..

Ah what the hell.

LF 6 4.0+ APS DDs (Only sins and BMs please) for FB19. PM me class/APS and refinement on weapon (+10 or higher only, please).

Yulk_owns - Lost City

Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

LF 6 4.0+ APS DDs (Only sins and BMs please) for FB19. PM me class/APS and refinement on weapon (+10 or higher only, please).

fail.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

...oh my god...

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Pfft, who needs squads? Just solo with 5.0 with a BP and Cleric alt, and rake in the monies.