How has the aps craze affected you?

Finrah - Sanctuary

How has it affected me... hmm.

Well, I love it but I hate it.

I love it because I love the speed of how squads finish instances and bosses.

~

I hate it because I hate how people get a class 'filter' or a sin/BM 'filter' when people make squads, specifically asking for your aps and if you don't have 3.33 aps + you're not invited xP
Some don't care and as long as u're a sin/bm, you're welcome just don't be a diehard noob.

2nd reason why be because of its popularity, people ain't sticking to their classes and making aps archers and barbs. b:shutupb:angry

Another reason for hating it is that because I'm liking the speed so much that its gonna one day make me become those *** hats who pick APS players only for fast squads to save my cramped up time during University b:surrender hope I don't get there b:chuckle

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

bull sh.it. Non cash shopper without life with 10-14h non stop ingame running instances and farm stuff has a slight chance to keep up with the moderate spenders.

Just because YOU can't farm doesn't mean we all can't.

except a lot of venos, that were rich enough before 5 aps from farming TT to no end rolled 5 aps chars (BMs/Sins). It's just easier/faster than whatever a herc veno can do.

Then they aren't venos anymore are they? And I didn't even mention herc venos, I said just venos. Venos are better with a scorpion than a herc now.

uhm, that's just dumb.

Nice retort, is it because you know I'm right? Mages offer the least to any PvE squad in the game outside of delta or FC. You die the easiest, you don't have any significant amp skills, not real healing ability, no damage, no utility. This was true before 5.0 aps was common.

dumb again...really... Archer's DPS was higher, but not by much. PPL just preferred them because that was the trend and at lowbie lvls they had higher survival than wizards. I know wizards that farmed TT as much as they wanted to. Yeah, in general a lone ranger complained about not being taken to squads, but unless the squad was made of arrogant idiots there was always a place for a wiz.

Yes... because they were the only people who could go. Archer DPS was higher, but not by much? Are you high? I wish Asterelle was higher to do the math and prove to you how stupid of a statement that was. Mages didn't even come close to archers in terms of DPS. Did mages farm TT? Yes, but only because back then leveling was hard, and there was a small amount of people who could even meet the level to do the TTs. When there are only a couple dozen people high enough to do a 3-3 then yea, it's not hard.

4-5 aps makes +10 r8 bow dmg still a joke. So if someone cares about DD, won't take a R8 bow archer in squad anyway. Rather a Lunar bow one since it has a chance to purge bosses that self buff.

omg, learn to read. I said IF 5.0 APS WAS NERFED. My point being, even if it WAS nerfed, mages still wouldn't be taken to instances because there are thousands of +10 rank 8 bows running around.

really? wow. No **** einstein, ppl will have to work again together to achieve something. You know, that thing that DEFINES a MMO ??

Work together? You high again? Nirvana pretty much requires people to work together. But here's the cool part, a good nirvana run goes from 5 minutes to an hour. Prices are going to skyrocket. 750 hours of gameplay for one weapon? And that isn't even counting rerolling the stats o n it. Is that what you want? Do you want TT3-3 mats to be literally impossible to get? Sounds like a fun game to me.

However, it affected most people. APS maybe able to steal aggro, but it have never affected survivability.

Sorry but you're wrong. Higher aps = more healing from bloodpaint, more healing from triple spark, more damage immunity from triple spark.

Finrah - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sorry but you're wrong. Higher aps = more healing from bloodpaint, more healing from triple spark, more damage immunity from triple spark.

+1

Especially having Sage Bloodpaint.... with a high APS you can simply go as far as saying "**** the cleric" xP

Carebear_xD - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sorry but you're wrong. Higher aps = more healing from bloodpaint, more healing from triple spark, more damage immunity from triple spark.

What good is bloodpaint if you have no HP or defense to tank? Sure its easy marcos but semi-magic bosses are low HP char's nightmare, even with elemental ornaments.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »

1 very important thing. High APS always was in the game, it is now just easier to obtain.

No, It wasn't. Only archer could have it and without packs and reputation sale almost IMPOSSIBLE to get it even for him.

Xoria - Sanctuary

Why do people keep saying clerics are just buff monkeys, now, compared to APS? Not everyone wants to go with 6 APS into TT/ Nirvana and just constantly tick their charms or consume HP pots when they can just invite a cleric. I've seen Nirvana squads advertising for clerics for upwards of 40 minutes- advertising they were 'high aps' no less.

No cleric won't be so easily replaced by a silly buff and high APS to keep them healed. I can guarantee you that if it happened, it would be the one thing PWE would immediately fix once it became a large scale problem.

Barbarians, on the other hand, I have seen all- too- often be invited to squads to give the party buffs and then leave/ be kicked out. For all I know, it was a member's old main, though, but not always.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just because YOU can't farm doesn't mean we all can't.

"we all"?????
Who put you in charge of speaking for the PWI comunity? wow, talking about arrogance in my previous post, here's the example...

Then they aren't venos anymore are they? And I didn't even mention herc venos, I said just venos. Venos are better with a scorpion than a herc now.

who cares? now it's all about aps. aps or G T F O...

Nice retort, is it because you know I'm right? Mages offer the least to any PvE squad in the game outside of delta or FC. You die the easiest, you don't have any significant amp skills, not real healing ability, no damage, no utility. This was true before 5.0 aps was common.

Die the easiest? wow, dude, you're dumb beyond belief.

Yes... because they were the only people who could go. Archer DPS was higher, but not by much? Are you high? I wish Asterelle was higher to do the math and prove to you how stupid of a statement that was. Mages didn't even come close to archers in terms of DPS. Did mages farm TT? Yes, but only because back then leveling was hard, and there was a small amount of people who could even meet the level to do the TTs. When there are only a couple dozen people high enough to do a 3-3 then yea, it's not hard.

yeah, right, again you're just throwing out words out there. Your server sucks, that isn't a secret. On the older servers there was never a handfull of ppl doing a TT. There were always hundreds. Months and months of having 100+/19x ppl in faction active at any time. And there were at least 5-6 factions on the server with that amount of ppl online. Wizards had place in farming squads just as any other class.

omg, learn to read. I said IF 5.0 APS WAS NERFED. My point being, even if it WAS nerfed, mages still wouldn't be taken to instances because there are thousands of +10 rank 8 bows running around.

r8 bow is hands down the best ranged DPS weapon ingame. R8 magic sword can hit hard. And as I said, if you really, really MUST have and R8 bow and you're waiting for just that instead of going with a wiz, you're an arrogant dumbas.s.

Work together? You high again? Nirvana pretty much requires people to work together. But here's the cool part, a good nirvana run goes from 5 minutes to an hour. Prices are going to skyrocket. 750 hours of gameplay for one weapon? And that isn't even counting rerolling the stats o n it. Is that what you want? Do you want TT3-3 mats to be literally impossible to get? Sounds like a fun game to me.

uh uh uh, I'm scared now. PPL will have to work again to get something. rofl nub, yeah, that's how ppl use to get something ingame before anni packs gave birth to nubs like you.

Hunnybunney - Harshlands

NiaJade - Harshlands wrote: »

I start playing here... bring up subject of CC (crowd control) when doing FC and .... well when you have explain what CC'ing is... and they go *blink blink*... it just gets rather sad from that point on.

I never knew what CCing was til you made the connection here.

Ya see, as far as ive ever seen, its not even used in PWI by the players. Ive only seen it mentioned once, and that was on FW. And when asked the dude who said it had no idea what it stood for, just "Stuns and stuff".

And im no nab so **** off yay lil trolls b:bye

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Aps "craze" (funny name for something that was always there...)

Sorry :$ Not commenting on anything else in this post/thread.

Anyways yes it has technically always been there, but it is exactly the definition of "craze"

Google definition of the word Craze: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal

I fail to see how the 5.0 phenomenon is anything but a craze. =x (I mean one of us seen 5.0, and how much imbalance it brought to the table of pve, then we all HAD to have it. Now the bosses drop like flies, and just about everyone has high aps. )


Either way whether it's always been here or not, it has undoubtedly effected numerous people's wants and game play in this game, and I for one hope something changes for the better, that won't continue to hurt those who don't have 5.0.... *cough* bh 3-3 boss/nirvana boss *cough*

Anyways thanks for the reply all, please do keep them coming because I do enjoy reading them all.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

There be trollin in here.

I don't really care about the stupidity. It's rampant in the entire game.

But 5 aps, hypers, oracles, and BH's have turned this game into an easy, fast way to power level a character without needing any of those annoying skill things. And that is why I quit.

If one person's quit over this, and yes, I cash shopped before (I bought a Nix right before I quit), then what's happening with the rest of the player base?

Your trolling eachother's trolling about 5 aps is funny and stupid to read at the same time, and it's apparent that neither of you played before the fish expansion, or if you did, not for very long before. So I have to really wonder how much you're actually arguing for a point, and how much you really are just trolling.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I fail to see how the 5.0 phenomenon is anything but a craze. =x (I mean one of us seen 5.0, and how much imbalance it brought to the table of pve, then we all HAD to have it. Now the bosses drop like flies, and just about everyone has high aps. )

Either way whether it's always been here or not, it has undoubtedly effected numerous people's wants and game play in this game, and I for one hope something changes for the better, that won't continue to hurt those who don't have 5.0.... *cough* bh 3-3 boss/nirvana boss *cough*

I was always under the impression that "craze" had something to with something new that appears after the game launch. In that case, it wouldn't make any sense for someone who has always had to cope with the squads that demand high aps.

Some people still insist that soon something else will get the craze status, even if nothing as game breaking as this is introduced in the game...

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was always under the impression that "craze" had something to with something new that appears after the game launch. In that case, it wouldn't make any sense for someone who has always had to cope with the squads that demand high aps.

Some people still insist that soon something else will get the craze status, even if nothing as game breaking as this is introduced in the game...

Honestly this is the first time I have ever seen the word 'craze' use to describe something in game, and I was the one that used it. :$ Obviously doesn't make what you seen/know... false, but meh, I'll just stick to the actual definition.

They are probably right, something else MAY eventually take a hold of people's interest, and soon everyone will follow that path, or rather we can hope, can't we? =x

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide

How the craze has affected me ?

Lets see, my main is a lvl 95 BM. When I started training him he WAS a swordman, but got told, turn him into a dex freak with fists.. People are gonna love you more.. I did. Now going up to that level, I helped a lot with fb's/bh and did all my quests ( 7 000 or so legit reputation). But at that level, now I get refused (or not even invited) to high lvl instances, so since i'm not a cs'er (or a 24/24 TT farmer), my char has become useless (mostly). Even not logging him for my marriage quest/cs/bh anymore and wished my 2nd char (this one) would be married to my wife's second char instead.

But then again..made a barb..telling myself I would be more in demand..Now mostly what I hear is ."re-stat, go demon claw-barb or gtfo"

Affected me ? Yes, I don't even feel like playing my main anymore and my wife either (lvl 99 cleric, also helped a lot, lvl 7 crafting in all except apo) She just logs..gets like 10 chatboxes to go buff/rez/craft or calls for TT 3-x, asks if I can come (since we do all together) and gets a "no" cause i 'm not 4-5 aps.

Stops me from having fun with my wife in game ? No, we just solo (well duo) as much we can on our secondary chars. We did a full boss day yesterday for 3 people (Kimsa, Krimson, Slitt, jewel..u name them...) then 2 fb51's and our bh69 with just a archer to help for extra DD.

Finrah - Sanctuary

Carebear_xD - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What good is bloodpaint if you have no HP or defense to tank? Sure its easy marcos but semi-magic bosses are low HP char's nightmare, even with elemental ornaments.

because its just like doing spam heals over and over on yourself so u CAN tank without HP or defense. AND, if you get spam healed, do you need HP or defense to tank? b:shutup And all the reason why there's HP stones. b:surrender

We aren't MADE to tank, but we end up doing so. It boils down to how you barbs can hold your boss's aggro well enough xP we didn't choose to tank

But of course, it also requires cooperation. I sometimes use Skin of the Deep to slow my attack speed down. But heck that steals aggro too and that makes a worser 'tank' in me -.-;

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

There be trollin in here.

I don't really care about the stupidity. It's rampant in the entire game.

But 5 aps, hypers, oracles, and BH's have turned this game into an easy, fast way to power level a character without needing any of those annoying skill things. And that is why I quit.

Well isn't that kinda ideal for the company? Sure, people rage a lot about it on the forums, but they're still spending to get the 5 aps and to get it fast. The company gets lots of money and the spending players are somewhat happy.

If not before, then the rep sale and its return was about as blatant as they can get about wanting people to buy their high level characters and endgame equipment, short of actually saying it.

From the company's point of view, 5 aps has only brought good things:

1. It made people more willing to cash shop.
2. It made people "happy".
3. People who played characters without 5 aps got ostracized and lot have quit or made a 5 aps farming character. Again more money to the company.
4. Those people who spent money to buy 5 aps to an alt will be playing longer than they would've otherwise. And the longer a player stays in, the harder it is to get out, especially if you know you've spent a lot of money.

Typhyse - Sanctuary

Answer: Yes, I just spent 25 cents short of $70 to get the rep for Rank 8.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

4. Those people who spent money to buy 5 aps to an alt will be playing longer than they would've otherwise. And the longer a player stays in, the harder it is to get out, especially if you know you've spent a lot of money.

Yeah...I've now spent about $400 on this FREE TO PLAY MMO. What is wrong with me? b:shocked

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

Even if you have worked hard, farming and grinding for your int gear it`s hard to just abandon your char even if you are bored and don`t enjoy the games as u used to.

__Kikyo__ - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As the title says, how has the craze affected your game play?

Before I get into my story, I want to start by saying this, 5.0 is only overpowered in pve, and solo pvp, but mass pvp it merely gives meleers a chance to kill the rangers/magicians. [Provided the 5.0'ers can live long enough to get at them]If it's TL then DR (fixing it or trying too)

i'll just kill u in the air thenb:mischievous

Hunnybunney - Harshlands

Its made all my efforts to do anything without relying on AUTOATTACK look like ****.

So now im going to get 3.33 on my sin. And grind up the approx 1 bill for R9.

It will be my last attempt at going somewhere without complete relience on APS whoreing.

--PvPwise? Its bored the hell outta me watchign other sins. 2spark - Wolf emblem HEadHunt AUTOATTACKRAPE is pretty much all I see sins do BMs less so, although they still bore the hell out of me with simple stun - Autorape, at least they have to get close and ot get killed on the way.

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

the only thing the APS craze did to me was .... Make me restat my awesome Axe BM to a hybrid with Fists. So no longer just sword, pole, and Axes. Now I use all my weapon trees and life is good again. I don't need 5.0 to be awesome.

My Sin and BM will be quite happy at 4.0.

Feito - Dreamweaver

It hasn't lately. Then again, I'm a Cleric and I've just come back from a short hiatus. I haven't been in a squad for months. b:shocked I'm kind of out of touch with PWI current events...I think I might do a few BH runs to see what's going on here...

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear

I just liked it better when things were hard and required strategy.

DeathOfLisa - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, It wasn't. Only archer could have it and without packs and reputation sale almost IMPOSSIBLE to get it even for him.

Level 100 BM.

TT100 Fists (-0.1)
TT99 LA + HA set bonus (-0.3)
Wraithgate Trophy Mode cape (-0.35)
Pan Gu, Creator tome (-0.4)

There you have a 5 APS BM wearing completely farmable gear that doesn't originate from packs or rely on rep. All of which were part of the game before packs were introduced. Packs only provided alternatives.


As for the rest of the thread, I agree with Rawrgh's first post. It makes rarer materials easily accessible for those without 5 APS, or massive cash shopping potential.

If anything, having 4 or 5 APS comes with bigger responsibility. You should be fully aware that when in a squad situation without other APS classes/tanks, you are going to have aggro 99% of the time, and if you can't handle that, you've effectively shot yourself in the foot.

Concerning the other end of the spectrum, the all-APS squads mentioned that run Nirvana are advertised as such. You really shouldn't expect to be given a spot in those squads if you don't meet their requirements. That said, nothing stops you from forming your own squad, or asking friends if they'd let you tag along.

In a way, I really do admire the marketing tactics employed by PWE, as they've raked in a killing from this game. And since it's free-to-play, you are not purchasing a service that you would with a pay-to-play game, and therefore, they do not have to listen to the player base all the time. Charging Zen is optional and regardless of the result of what you do with it, it's always going to be your decision and also your fault.

Capping APS was also mentioned in this thread. Truth is, APS is already capped. To those of you who aren't aware, the current cap on APS is 5. Like packs, like -interval gear, this was intentional. The devs just didn't "discover" 5 APS in their game, it would have been planned, thought through and implemented *with* the "- Interval Between Attacks" stat. Also, nerfing APS would gimp probably the game's biggest income, and most likely will not happen. It would also make the prices of the rare materials that I mentioned earlier skyrocket, and become less available.

There was another issue about mages. It is true that mages aren't (more so never were) favoured in PvE squads for instances such as TT. The reason behind this is that while they're proficient at dealing large sums of damage per hit, their hits are slow unless decked out in -chan gear. On the other hand, Archers have faster attacks and crit often. They also have the famous archer skill known as STA (Sharpened Tooth Arrow) which drastically decreases the max HP of bosses, 16% at level 10 and 20% as sage version, respectively. Thus making the fights go much faster. It is for this reason that they were, and probably still are, (if people still run TT with rainbow squads) preferred by squads over mages.

Personally, I have a fair amount of -int gear already, and plan to have 4 APS by 100. Not because I want to "fit in" or "be able to compete", but to have fun spending time with my friends and help my faction with things that I wouldn't be able to do without it.


/end Wall o' Text.

Ivy_ - Dreamweaver

What has APS done to me?

On the good side, it's given me my Nirvana pants. But non-aps squads have helped as well.

On the bad side, it's kinda forced me to neglect two fairly well-geared magic classes (hereafter known as "magic slingers") with a **** ton of nirvana keys between them (~300) and started a sin.

Of course, this plan backfired, because sin's only level 83 and apparently is unwanted in fc squads unless it's with friends, who has since quit. And no, at level 83, soloing it is not an option. Not with my current gear anyways.

Sthenith - Dreamweaver

APS craze...highly overrated within the total of the game.

But i already had my sin before all the insane stuff was going on, so the only thing i did was get her some decent -int gear and daggers, level her up close to my own clerics lvl, and see
what possibilities and style of gameplay i want in the future.

I will in all probability never get 5.0, but i'd already be happy with 3.33. All depends on luck and the time you put into it (not to mention cash).

PVE wise i think APS had messed up a bit of the gameplay, esp the higher instances like nirvana and consorts, but otherwise i don't see any significant change in PVP/Duels or even TW's.

Rank gear on the other hand....that is really messed up. But i don't believe for a sec that there are so many people spending hundreds or thousands on R9 stuff to really become a bother to the game. Face it, after Rank 9, what other goals could one possibly have at the moment ? Unless it's a goal of becoming richer, or reach lvl 105.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

how did 5aps affect me? As a wiz?

That's easy: it gave me something to aim my hatred of not being able to find tt/nirv squads at once I get to endgame b:sad

Evict - Heavens Tear

APS has made my Nirvana runs faster. That's all.

SkogDyr - Lost City

APS.... hmmm
PRO: Fast FCC and NV runs...
PRO: Lots of TT mats for sale in cat shops....

CON: Squishy cleric Dead in 2 sec @ Silver Pool b:chuckle

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

How has APS affected me?

*Sees a claw sin*
Now that's just silly, if you want to fist so much, then make a freaking BM, BM fist > sin fist.

*Sees a claw arch*
Now that's just silly and rather makes me want to smack the person to the back of their head. If you want to fist so much, then make a freaking BM, BM fist > archer fist.

*Sees a claw barb*
......Pantie dear, where did I last put my shotgun at? There's a clown that needs a shot of 12 gauge of sensibility. You're a barb, you have no business in DPS, your business is taking and keeping aggro and being hit at and being able to cope with the hits. If you want to fist, make a freaking BM, BM fist >>> barb fist

*Sees a claw cleric*
*facepalms and gets a knife to slit a wrist in the depression of fail*


Other then that... APS has made some runs faster when I've just managed to get into a APS group.
But otherwise it really hasn't... A wiz, veno, or a barb is always welcome in my squad, APS or not. Sometimes my Warsong squads fail because of lack of DD, but if ANYONE even hints that I should boot a wiz in favor of a fist BM, or APS sin, you can bet your *** that THAT person is the one that I will replace with a non APS foxform veno if there's one that happens to need it.

I have also been blamed for not being competetaive because I don't cash shop at all and don't replace non APS/Chan people with higher DPS people. But to them I respond... my achievements and gear is a result of dedicated work over 2 years. It might not be as impressive as someones whom bought rank gear and +7, or more refine on all gear and I might not be able to stand next to them as tall toe to toe. But yet... which one is the bigger achievement? Which one can the owner be MORE proud of?

Also, here's another way to look at it. Take ANY rather dull, slow, heavy and bit ugly family car, such as a Volvo, or a Citroen and compare it to a hardcore slim, fast, sleek and hyper sexy super car, may it be a Zonda, or any similar car. Which one would you use on a day to day basis?

No matter how good you can get with just plain cash, no matter how much, or little it will cost, there will always be room for free to play players. If you feel peer pressured to cash shop, or made feel like you're inadequate, the propability is that you're in a wrong company. That would suggest to me that you're in a hardcore TW faction that has no interest in anykind of weakness of any sort. If you feel enraged by such notion, it's propably best to try and find another faction and / or group of people to play with. You may not be as succesful in runs and TW's, but you will have more fun doing them. Pure performance =/= fun. Performance is always grinding, wether it is mobs, instances, pvp, or TW, if your game is purely performance based, your game is essentially grinding and most likely as a result NOT FUN.

This is what causes people to quit, but the question is, who are the people that quit? It's the experienced people that have poured TONS of money and effort into the game that are most likely to quit, because their experience is NOT FUN. People that don't care about their performance so much when compared to other people are A LOT less likely to quit over any change.

Of course there are some farmers and merchants (Talking about multimillion farmers and merchants) in the f2p playerbase, but are those the rule, or the exception? The exception, right? So they are more likely to quit as well.

But the point is, it doesn't really matter how you got your gear, what matters is if you're playing for fun, or are you playing to grind same instance over and over?

Here's an example of fun. I'm building up a barbie to help low lvl people in our faction and I'm now at BH29 level. I frequently get asked from my high lvl friends if I want them to just slam it and get it done with, but I ALWAYS refuse and say I'll do it the old fashioned way. And just today I did a 3 people squad BH29 run with only 4x people. Me on a barbie, a factionmate sin and a factionless newbie lvl 40 cleric who knew how to play his class. The result was bit longwinded BH29 with 1 death (The sin), but overall everyone was really happy and most of all, I got a new friend. Can that happen in a mechanic grind based APS squads? Not very likely...

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

*Sees a claw barb*
......Pantie dear, where did I last put my shotgun at? There's a clown that needs a shot of 12 gauge of sensibility. You're a barb, you have no business in DPS, your business is taking and keeping aggro and being hit at and being able to cope with the hits. If you want to fist, make a freaking BM, BM fist >>> barb fist

Are you stupid or just ignorant?

Who died and made you god queen of PWI and said it was your job to choose how people build thier characters.


"your business is tanking and keeping aggro"

Yea, good luck with that when you're using axes and a vit build.


BTW, claw barb gets more HP per vit than a BM, demon beastial onslaught for +35% crit, beastial rage for 8 chi every time I get hit, poison fang to match a BMs weapon mastery, faster movement speed to reduce time in instances, access to solid shield which is incredibly good for instances, and 30% more HP.