5aps Nerf

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Players with 5.0 would leave and PWE would lose profit.

how exactly? they wont get back the money they used to get 5aps.
ur point would stand if u said that players wouldnt want 5aps and pwi would loose profit.

after the rep sale i dont really think that PWE cares about upsetting their players anyway

Naivety - Harshlands

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

They spent money to be able to hit 5 times every second. There would be mass QQ if that was taken away. Also, I'm 2.22 APS and farming anything tedious.

Im 1.67. My boots are smaller than yours, try fitting in them b:surrender

And theres mass QQ about its existance, it doesnt do ~edited~. So it being taken away would get the same reaction from PWE : **** all.

Evict - Heavens Tear

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

how exactly? they wont get back the money they used to get 5aps.
ur point would stand if u said that players wouldnt want 5aps and pwi would loose profit.

after the rep sale i dont really think that PWE cares about upsetting their players anyway

The Barb suggested a 2.0 cap; how could anyone want/not want a 5.0? b:puzzled

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

And theres mass QQ about its existance, it doesnt do ~edited~. So it being taken away would get the same reaction from PWE : **** all.

**** all and profit loss from people not shelling out 2k USD for over 9000 packs to get a Scroll of Tome and +12'd -int everything.

Naivety - Harshlands

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The Barb suggested a 2.0 cap; how could anyone want/not want a 5.0? b:puzzled



**** all and profit loss from people not shelling out 2k USD for over 9000 packs to get a Scroll of Tome and +12'd -int everything.

no APS? More reason to +12, you need the damage and defences now.

Scroll of Tome? I want a Divine Brotherhood anyway, I suspect that would very suddenly become the most popular scroll-tome around, -int tome is not the only good tome there.

And youd see a lot more money being put in to the game to buy skills and such. I know of many a sin with no Demon Skills because they dont need them. AutoAttack + Spark is free.

45 mill worth of Mystical pages for a bunch of skills and then 100 mill or more for the rest is a lotta cash.

5APS isnt the only way they can gain money. Without it people would shell out for other things to increase farming capability and overall power.

Longknife - Harshlands

5aps is really pretty meh as far as PVP goes.

The only issue 5aps presents is in combination with stealth. I can't tell you how many times I've died to a sin out of stealth with Absolute Domain/Expel not reacting quick enough and the sin getting hit by Soul of Silence up to 3-4 times AFTER I was dead. Only time I can regularly tank 5aps long enough to be able to react is in white voodoo with SoR and an HP charm. Don't think that should be a requirement as I'm pretty sure wizzies and venos have it even worse than I do. :U

Naivety - Harshlands

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

5aps is really pretty meh as far as PVP goes.

The only issue 5aps presents is in combination with stealth. I can't tell you how many times I've died to a sin out of stealth with Absolute Domain/Expel not reacting quick enough and the sin getting hit by Soul of Silence up to 3-4 times AFTER I was dead. Only time I can regularly tank 5aps long enough to be able to react is in white voodoo with SoR and an HP charm. Don't think that should be a requirement as I'm pretty sure wizzies and venos have it even worse than I do. :U

Chill of the deep - 2spark - Wold Emblem - Head Hunt (Possibly followed with Rising Dragon Strike and Slipstream if its not a oneshot) = Dead blackvoodooing Psy.

Dont need APS to kill a psy in black b:chuckle

Also, my HeadHunt is still Lv7. That is important for you to note. b:surrender

--- Someone gimme like 5 mill to max my skills plox.

Quilue - Sanctuary

2.0 cap would be the dumbest thing ever. A spear can reach 2.0 triple sparked, there would be no reason to go fists LOL...essentially making it the most worthless path again

also, only one thing Asterelle's sig lacks:
b:laugh
http://tinyurl.com/48smoes

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

More like: what caster can't take aggro from a Barb that knows what they're doing? Even a veno can do 400k+ worth of AoE dmg in 4 seconds with only a +6 rank 8 weapon, and that's where the Barbs other aggro skill comes into use. Even if they can't hold aggro on a group of mobs: they can buy the caster(s) enough time to finish killing.

Another illustration of sheer idiodcy from tweakz. Why not just embelish that statement further by claiming a veno can hit 200 mobs with 2.2 + mil worth of DD from AoE in 1 or 2 shots to make it seem even more significant.

I never seen a veno do 400K+ AoE on a boss that a barb is trying to hold aggro with which is the common scenerio where holding aggro is actually important. As for mob pulling in FCC goes, everyone who does significant AoE is going to take aggro of some of the mobs. Even the cleric gets aggro with the BB from time to time. That's why we have BMs to stun the mob group to make it work.

Longknife - Harshlands

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

Chill of the deep - 2spark - Wold Emblem - Head Hunt (Possibly followed with Rising Dragon Strike and Slipstream if its not a oneshot) = Dead blackvoodooing Psy.

Dont need APS to kill a psy in black b:chuckle

Also, my HeadHunt is still Lv7. That is important for you to note. b:surrender

--- Someone gimme like 5 mill to max my skills plox.

You'd stun and kill yourself, if the Psy is smart.

tweakz

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Another illustration of sheer idiodcy from tweakz. Why not just embelish that statement further by claiming a veno can hit 200 mobs with 2.2 + mil worth of DD from AoE in 1 or 2 shots to make it seem even more significant.

I never seen a veno do 400K+ AoE on a boss that a barb is trying to hold aggro with which is the common scenerio where holding aggro is actually important. As for mob pulling in FCC goes, everyone who does significant AoE is going to take aggro of some of the mobs. Even the cleric gets aggro with the BB from time to time. That's why we have BMs to stun the mob group to make it work.

Aside from you being fail, yes: Veno AoEs hit as hard or harder than their 1-1 skills. If I can 1 shot 50 [?] mobs; what difference would 200 make?

Jadsia - Lost City

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Players with 5.0 would leave and PWE would lose profit.

For each person that rage quits a new player may just replace them plus PWE retains those who are disgusted with the APS issue. Could just end up a draw.

I've been on long enough to see several waves of angry rage quitters because of a nerf here or there including the recent TW and TT3.x nerfs. I think the owrst was when they nerfed the DQ prices because the chinese servers had a bot problem. But new players have replaced the quitters.

Naivety - Harshlands

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

You'd stun and kill yourself, if the Psy is smart.

If Soul of Stunning is up you just follow the spark with Inner Harmony and Maze Steps before Wolf Emblem. Thus no stun and a big *** you to any BM trying to protect you :P

---

EDIT:

Actually I wanna know, how many dumbass sins have actually stunned themselves on you? o_O Nab move for nabs is nabbish.

Longknife - Harshlands

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

EDIT:

Actually I wanna know, how many dumbass sins have actually stunned themselves on you? o_O Nab move for nabs is nabbish.

You have no idea how much I'm laughing at your post right now. You STILL don't quite get it and it still sounds like you yourself would make a nab mistake.

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

everything Evict has said is wrong.

Jadsia - Lost City

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

--- Someone gimme like 5 mill to max my skills plox.

I'd be glad to give you 5 mil....uh.. too bad you're on the wrong server.

And before anyone makes an even more smart *** reply I am notorious for being loose with my coin on my server. If I added it all up I probably gave away well over 300 mil in coin and mats and cash shop items in the 2.9 years I've been on. Ant that doesn't include the 250+ mil I gave to my barb hubby last Nov and Dec.

Naivety - Harshlands

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

You have no idea how much I'm laughing at your post right now. You STILL don't quite get it and it still sounds like you yourself would make a nab mistake.

If you mean Soul of Retaliation, only the damage reflects.

I will admit ive a fair chance of oneshotting myself off the damage, but youd be dead too.

---
EDIT:

Unless your soulforce is like.... 50k, in which case the reduc would be insane.

---
EDIT 2:

50k would be 25%. So mebbe more like 75k.


---

EDIT 3:

Blergh lv one skill. BRB, maths time.

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

Aside from you being fail, yes: Veno AoEs hit as hard or harder than their 1-1 skills. If I can 1 shot 50 [?] mobs; what difference would 200 make?

Because if a Veno in a squad is doing Aoe you can bet some of the other squad members Including the barb) are (or better be) doing the same doing similar amount of DD too if there are multiple mobs aggro'ing on the group. But YOU seem to be Comparing the cumulative DD of a caster's AoE on multiple mobs to a barb's 1 on 1 DD on a specific mob which is not only idiotic it's stupid. To suggest that you will steal aggro from the barb when your individual DD to that specific mob is not the 400k+ cumulative DD you have us believe but a single hit (about 14K for me uncritted and unsparked with sage Nox Gas as a specific reference) and barb using his aggro skills properly is going to keep aggro unless there are significant differences in level and gears. Besides, you seem obsessed with calculating cumulative dd from an AoE but never mention that a veno has non-AoE skills that actually hit harder on single mobs and bosses. Perhaps that's because you are what you so frequently accuse others of being? A Fail? A troll?

Longknife - Harshlands

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

If you mean Soul of Retaliation, only the damage reflects.

I will admit ive a fair chance of oneshotting myself off the damage, but youd be dead too.

Soul of Retaliation reflects ailments, so you'd be stunned unless you wear Maze Steps. At any rate, Soul of Retaliation will basically resist that big hit, and then you've also given the Psy time to Psy will, which is bad.

The reason 5 aps out of stealth is such a pain is because it's really the only way a sin can actually kill the Psy before Psy will can even cast, both because it's really just too fast for a person to react to and because it would seem the game also won't react with a resistance in time. Any ailment will reflect and gives the Psy time to react, any slow melee speed takes too long. The only option then is to force stealth and wait the resistance out, which of course has varying results, depending on the skill of the Psy and sin.

But Psys HAVE skills to combat sins in situations like that. I'd love to know how the hell a Wiz or veno is expected to combat a 5aps sin out of stealth.

tweakz

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Because if a Veno in a squad is doing Aoe you can bet some of the other squad members Including the barb) are (or better be) doing the same doing similar amount of DD too if there are multiple mobs aggro'ing on the group. But YOU seem to be Comparing the cumulative DD of a caster's AoE on multiple mobs to a barb's 1 on 1 DD on a specific mob which is not only idiotic it's stupid. To suggest that you will steal aggro from the barb when your individual DD to that specific mob is not the 400k+ cumulative DD you have us believe but a single hit (about 14K for me uncritted and unsparked with sage Nox Gas as a specific reference) and barb using his aggro skills properly is going to keep aggro unless there are significant differences in level and gears. Besides, you seem obsessed with calculating cumulative dd from an AoE but never mention that a veno has non-AoE skills that actually hit harder on single mobs and bosses. Perhaps that's because you are what you so frequently accuse others of being? A Fail? A troll?

Yep: fail. b:chuckle

You must not be using the +30 atk level blessing.

Naivety - Harshlands

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Soul of Retaliation reflects ailments, so you'd be stunned unless you wear Maze Steps. At any rate, Soul of Retaliation will basically resist that big hit, and then you've also given the Psy time to Psy will, which is bad.

The reason 5 aps out of stealth is such a pain is because it's really the only way a sin can actually kill the Psy before Psy will can even cast, both because it's really just too fast for a person to react to and because it would seem the game also won't react with a resistance in time. Any ailment will reflect and gives the Psy time to react, any slow melee speed takes too long. The only option then is to force stealth and wait the resistance out, which of course has varying results, depending on the skill of the Psy and sin.

But Psys HAVE skills to combat sins in situations like that. I'd love to know how the hell a Wiz or veno is expected to combat a 5aps sin out of stealth.

Recalced it all and the result is (With ALL +10 gears (26k Soulforce)) 130% Damage reduc.

Obviously thats not right, because I still deal damage. However you dont have 26k SF.

Either way, ive never, ever had much problem with PSys in black. At the same time, I know 90% of Psys dont know wtf they are doing. I dont understand PSys as well as I do say a veno or Cleric, but I think I understand them better than some PSys do... Despite never playing one. (Properly. I levelled one to 20 once b:surrender) so I will admit there is some... Lol, naivety in my statement of how to flatten one.

One question, You lose any status ailments when you cast Psy Will, And become immune to Physical Damage. It does not say you cannot be struck with a status ailment.

So the plan changes, If you tank like expected, I have myself (With max level skills) 99 Chi remaining, assuming I 2sparked, Wolf, Inner Harmonied, and Maze Stepped into you with HEadHunt. IF you tank it, I can react with Deep Sting, this is 5 seconds of sleep, but of course, no damage. 49 chi. As it wears off, im in a battle with lag and precision timing, I need to hit you with Tackling Slash in the last 3 seconds(99chi again), use RDS as you immune wears off(249 chi, 289 with Sage RDS I think) and then Throatcut(149 / 189 chi) you before laying in with whatever is at hand skillwise, with TeleStun ( 49 / 89 chi) available if needed after Throat.

Itd be complicated, but you could completely wipe a psy assuming you can take a potential hit in the cast of throatcut. If not, Stealth and flee like a small child, cos you aint killing that psy for the next few minutes.b:surrender

I wanna duel you now, see if I can nail said timing b:laugh

---You gotta admit, that if someone pulled that off, youd be liek "****ing WOW"

Oh,if you cant be stuck with ailments while immune to Phy damage, then the whole thing sucks and il have to stealth and reappear as per the sin code of losing a fight without dying. (If I start the fight and have to stealth out, I lost, fair and square).

---

For Wiz and veno, the pet reacts for the veno, ive noticed that keeping the stun skill on nix has become more popular recently. For the Wiz.... Theyre pretty tough lategame with good gear, they become a lot harder to kill than youd think.

Another thing is standing still. Holy god is that a death sentance. You have no idea how hard it is to spark-etc combo someone when they randomly leap away from your pathetic 4.5 metre range skill, and you waste a bunch of chi, or you stun someone in the air where you cant reach them

Regenbogen - Lost City

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

Recalced it all and the result is (With ALL +10 gears (26k Soulforce)) 130% Damage reduc.

Obviously thats not right, because I still deal damage. However you dont have 26k SF.

Either way, ive never, ever had much problem with PSys in black. At the same time, I know 90% of Psys dont know wtf they are doing. I dont understand PSys as well as I do say a veno or Cleric, but I think I understand them better than some PSys do... Despite never playing one. (Properly. I levelled one to 20 once b:surrender) so I will admit there is some... Lol, naivety in my statement of how to flatten one.

One question, You lose any status ailments when you cast Psy Will, And become immune to Physical Damage. It does not say you cannot be struck with a status ailment.

So the plan changes, If you tank like expected, I have myself (With max level skills) 99 Chi remaining, assuming I 2sparked, Wolf, Inner Harmonied, and Maze Stepped into you with HEadHunt. IF you tank it, I can react with Deep Sting, this is 5 seconds of sleep, but of course, no damage. 49 chi. As it wears off, im in a battle with lag and precision timing, I need to hit you with Tackling Slash in the last 3 seconds(99chi again), use RDS as you immune wears off(249 chi, 289 with Sage RDS I think) and then Throatcut(149 / 189 chi) you before laying in with whatever is at hand skillwise, with TeleStun ( 49 / 89 chi) available if needed after Throat.

Itd be complicated, but you could completely wipe a psy assuming you can take a potential hit in the cast of throatcut. If not, Stealth and flee like a small child, cos you aint killing that psy for the next few minutes.b:surrender

I wanna duel you now, see if I can nail said timing b:laugh

---You gotta admit, that if someone pulled that off, youd be liek "****ing WOW"

Oh,if you cant be stuck with ailments while immune to Phy damage, then the whole thing sucks and il have to stealth and reappear as per the sin code of losing a fight without dying. (If I start the fight and have to stealth out, I lost, fair and square).

---

For Wiz and veno, the pet reacts for the veno, ive noticed that keeping the stun skill on nix has become more popular recently. For the Wiz.... Theyre pretty tough lategame with good gear, they become a lot harder to kill than youd think.

Another thing is standing still. Holy god is that a death sentance. You have no idea how hard it is to spark-etc combo someone when they randomly leap away from your pathetic 4.5 metre range skill, and you waste a bunch of chi, or you stun someone in the air where you cant reach them

shadow teleport and occult ice should work on psys even in psychics will like bms roar...b:pleased

Naivety - Harshlands

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

shadow teleport and occult ice should work on psys even in psychics will like bms roar...b:pleased

I refuse to use Occult Ice.

I have enough of my own stuns, I dont need to be an occult n00b.b:chuckle

/getskilledbyamillionfistBMsandalotofsins b:surrender

I hope Deep Sting does the job tho, if it doesnt then il be pissed lol.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

i cast magic arrow and kill both of you b:avoid

well, if sor is up u could break it with a normal hit/weak genie skill and then stun the psy.

Happy_Killer - Harshlands

tweakz wrote: »

Yep: fail. b:chuckle

You must not be using the +30 atk level blessing.

Should we be impressed that you have to use the blessing to not suck?

Traz - Dreamweaver

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have not been able to find any useful evidence that -interval gear is losing its -interval.

I have not been able to find any useful evidence of a changed interval cap.

Based on other things I have read, I believe that the 5aps "nerf" will come from emphasizing other aspects of game play, new opponents and that sort of thing. But I do not have any substantial evidence of this, either -- except that it's already present in some currently not-so-important parts of the game (like delta), and we know that the new "probably overpowered" classes will not be able to equip fists nor claws.

Cy_clone - Heavens Tear wrote: »

nimh88 wrote: »

Q：5.0什么的讲两句
A：这是游戏发展到某个阶段所要面临的具有偶然性的问题，这个问题会通过后续的版本开发逐步使其影响变弱，继而变得不尖锐，这个后续版本也许是明年的大型资料片，目前正在考量各职业的持续成长方向及成长后的主要玩法。我想说的是，我们经历过很多阶段性的偶然问题，比如武器模型雷同、凤凰传奇、妖精抓蛋、****，我们跟很多老玩家一起经历了这些，但这些到最后都成了过眼云烟，我们还在这里。说到底，每个历史时期总会有主要矛盾，随着发展，主要矛盾会淡化直至消失，而留下的人就是变革的见证者。（这话讲得好烂）换种说法，我们会寻求不激烈不肉疼的方式淡化这个问题，只是还需要一些时间，让尽可能多的人不感到疼。（能理解的明白我说什么，不能理解的且随意理解）

Let me try this ...

First point is that the 5.0aps issue was not an intended development (happened by "chance") This issue will be slowly nerfed but not for the coming expansion, maybe the next major expansion during next year. However, the 'nerf' will not be too great. At the moment their emphasis is on character growth and end game play styles of each class (class balancing?)

The next part he goes on to talk about how the game and its old players have gone through various issues like the veno's phoenix complaints etc, but yet the game is still doing fine, and how those that still play the game have witnessed a 'revolution' / change in the game thus far. Just a bunch of BS.

Finally, the main thing is they are looking into a means to solve the APS 'issue' which will not be too painful (?) to all parties involved but they need some time.

Thems the evidences. Guess we'll see if they are full of **** or will really do something in the next expansion after Gensis.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

I'd be glad to give you 5 mil....uh.. too bad you're on the wrong server.

And before anyone makes an even more smart *** reply I am notorious for being loose with my coin on my server. If I added it all up I probably gave away well over 300 mil in coin and mats and cash shop items in the 2.9 years I've been on. Ant that doesn't include the 250+ mil I gave to my barb hubby last Nov and Dec.

Sugar momma? :O

tweakz

Happy_Killer - Harshlands wrote: »

Should we be impressed that you have to use the blessing to not suck?

Should I be impressed that teartroll created yet another account to stalk and harass?

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

Yep: fail. b:chuckle

You must not be using the +30 atk level blessing.

Ok, prove it. Post a screen shot of your unsparked, non crit nox gas AoE on a lvl 95 or better mob and I will do the same on the same mob. Also post a screen shot of your character info in the same screenshot since you seem to base most of your claims about your veno off your stats and to prove you are the veno's user and the base mag DD. Don't try to photoshop a fake screen shot either. I can detect that with software I have. Until then any claim you spew from an anonymous, unvarifiable character in some anonymous server about anything raises serious questions about said claim's validity not to mention how stupid you look calling others names based on unvarifiable claims. At least with me others know who I am and know where my character is and can varify what I say. So put up or shut up.

Also, as said earlier, only an idiot would compare the cumulative DD from a caster's AoE on multiple targets to a Barb doing 1 v 1 DD to a single mob. That kind of embelishment is not only dishonest it's stupid.

Jadsia - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sugar momma? :O

b:surrender to keep my furry cuddly barb strong and happy...guilty as charged, your honor. b:surrender

Quilue - Sanctuary

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Ok, prove it. Post a screen shot of your unsparked, non crit nox gas AoE on a lvl 95 or better mob and I will do the same on the same mob. Also post a screen shot of your character info in the same screenshot since you seem to base most of your claims about your veno off your stats and to prove you are the veno's user and the base mag DD. Don't try to photoshop a fake screen shot either. I can detect that with software I have. Until then any claim you spew from an anonymous, unvarifiable character in some anonymous server about anything raises serious questions about said claim's validity not to mention how stupid you look calling others names based on unvarifiable claims. At least with me others know who I am and know where my character is and can varify what I say. So put up or shut up.

Also, as said earlier, only an idiot would compare the cumulative DD from a caster's AoE on multiple targets to a Barb doing 1 v 1 DD to a single mob. That kind of embelishment is not only dishonest it's stupid.

It all depends on your build and weapon...could have both of you post magic and weapon and we'd be able to figure it out from there.