Why "Nerf" 5aps?

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Comments

  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Agree 101%. Have my babies.

    But.. I don't have those parts b:sad
  • Evict - Heavens Tear
    Evict - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,301 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    But.. I don't have those parts b:sad

    We can adopt. b:sad
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dysk is my tasty chimichanga. <3
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    We can adopt. b:sad

    A fish and an elf adopting a kid? Thread officially derailed b:cool
  • Evict - Heavens Tear
    Evict - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,301 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    A fish and an elf adopting a kid? Thread officially derailed b:cool

    High fives all round. b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dysk is my tasty chimichanga. <3
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    A fish and an elf adopting a kid? Thread officially derailed b:cool

    *amused*

    +1postcount
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    A male fish and a male elf living in a suburban area with an african american child.

    That is all.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A male fish and a male elf living in a suburban area with an african american child.

    That is all.

    Actually.. I want an asian kid, sorry Evict :P
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    RACIST! Zanryu only wants his little asian kid to be a doctor/lawyer or engineer so some time in the future he will borrow a lot of money from his little chinese kid.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »
    RACIST! Zanryu only wants his little asian kid to be a doctor/lawyer or engineer so some time in the future he will borrow a lot of money from his little chinese kid.

    Damn! My secret plan is revealed!
  • Jadsia - Lost City
    Jadsia - Lost City Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Well first of all, nice triple post.

    That's because it's got a lot of people upset.


    I've been around since the beginning of my server, I've adapted to genies, tideborn, and 5APS, and I'll continue to do so to every other change this game undergoes.

    As we should but a class should never have a permaspark.

    Eh.. the spark cooldown is a decent enough idea for limiting the DD of 0int geared players, but then that makes it harder on casters as well, and every other non -int geared player. Whatever the change is to fix 5APS it should interfere with the gameplay of non -int players... and making sparks share a cooldown? That only makes it worse. (And.. in PvP, a 90-120 second cooldown on spark will really **** A LOT of people over...)

    With APS classes having permaspark we are already screwed and so many different ways. Many have been mentioned in this post and the others repeatedly. Most of our skills have various cooldowns for a reason and that is because it's to limit the DPS of that skill. At my level and geared my average DD for a single Lucky Scarab cast is about 12K to 15K per hit without a spark. now imagine doing that kind of DD with a 5 second or even a 10 second cooldown (excluding the casting times too) That is a tad overpowered in my opinion considering that I have other casting skills that have similar DD I can fire off after the Lucky Scarab. Sparks are no different in they are skill buffs (not to mention the invincibility) but they are not meant for a continuous buff for those who have such high aps that they gain chi for sparks faster than they can spark. No caster can ever come close to that because of the casting times and cooldowns. And lengthening the time for a spark cooldown will have less of an impact for those of us that have slower APS to gain chi from and prevent the permaspark scenerio.

    I don't agree with nerfing the 5 aps to 3.33 aps because the unsparked DD of those types of weapons is not high enough to compete with an unsparked cast from character like me in a PvP situation or when doing Melee against any boss or mob.

    As for the sparks sharing a cooldown, it's the same reason that different types of HP or MP pots share the same cooldown essentially.



    Just my 2 cents worth.
    I **** bigger than you...

    Shut up and play the game.....Damn
  • Evict - Heavens Tear
    Evict - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,301 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »
    a class should never have a permaspark.

    Care to add a new definition for Sins?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dysk is my tasty chimichanga. <3
  • SaiIorMoon - Lost City
    SaiIorMoon - Lost City Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I don't think they should nerf it, I don't think they should make 90 second cooldown on sparks, and I don't think they need to make OP geared to counter the dmg they/we (quite soon) do. The main thing I see people crying about is that people can now solo instances and greed the drops, mainly due to self healing of BP. If they do anything, why not just make BP only for sins? Sure they can still be perma-sparked but I don't think the spark heal will make that much of a difference, they'd then have higher charm/pot bills. I've never seen anyone mention anything like that so why not?
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »
    Just my 2 cents worth.

    If they change the cooldown on spark, that eliminates multi-spark (triple spark, get purged, triple spark), which was already a possibility without 5aps chi gain.

    And 5aps will still have a lot of chi, it will just have to get channelled into other skills to be useful. That will slow down 5aps boss combat but will not restore the balance of the game (not that I really know what "balance" means -- but mostly I think they need a greater variety of generally possible options).
  • Shalis - Harshlands
    Shalis - Harshlands Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If they change the cooldown on spark, that eliminates multi-spark (triple spark, get purged, triple spark), which was already a possibility without 5aps chi gain.

    And 5aps will still have a lot of chi, it will just have to get channelled into other skills to be useful. That will slow down 5aps boss combat but will not restore the balance of the game (not that I really know what "balance" means -- but mostly I think they need a greater variety of generally possible options).

    how good is 5aps without the 500x dmg and inv of permaspark?


    how about make -int eq %based with diminishing returns, and put 180sec cooldown on spark. there ya go 5aps fixed
  • Sycorx - Harshlands
    Sycorx - Harshlands Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't think they should nerf it, I don't think they should make 90 second cooldown on sparks, and I don't think they need to make OP geared to counter the dmg they/we (quite soon) do. The main thing I see people crying about is that people can now solo instances and greed the drops, mainly due to self healing of BP. If they do anything, why not just make BP only for sins? Sure they can still be perma-sparked but I don't think the spark heal will make that much of a difference, they'd then have higher charm/pot bills. I've never seen anyone mention anything like that so why not?

    *Facepalm*

    All that would do is make sins more OP than everyone else and the 5aps population would simply reroll sins.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
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  • Sycorx - Harshlands
    Sycorx - Harshlands Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Imagine if they removed the aps cap.........

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=06f9c73bf4b548b5

    lol imagine how OP that would be
    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Why do you want to limit the DD of DD classes? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. DD classes are doing their job by getting the best damage available to them, and you want to nerf that...Have you tried to run a 3-x TT without enough DD? 20min Steelation anyone? You really want to sit through that?

    Actually you can do that now, just don't take anyone with perma-spark. Go.

    Removing perma-spark isn't going to make more classes included, it's just going to force more 4.0-5.0 runs because people need fast enough DD to get through the harder TT bosses comfortably. Obviously the problem is the dungeons themselves.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • SaiIorMoon - Lost City
    SaiIorMoon - Lost City Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Sycorx - Harshlands wrote: »
    *Facepalm*

    All that would do is make sins more OP than everyone else and the 5aps population would simply reroll sins.

    I don't want them to change anything, logically though, 1 5.0 class out of 8 seems better than 4/8...... b:bye
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A male fish and a male elf living in a suburban area with an african american child.

    That is all.

    if this was a sitcom, i would watch it b:dirty
  • Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver
    Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't think they should nerf it, I don't think they should make 90 second cooldown on sparks, and I don't think they need to make OP geared to counter the dmg they/we (quite soon) do. The main thing I see people crying about is that people can now solo instances and greed the drops, mainly due to self healing of BP. If they do anything, why not just make BP only for sins? Sure they can still be perma-sparked but I don't think the spark heal will make that much of a difference, they'd then have higher charm/pot bills. I've never seen anyone mention anything like that so why not?

    Big surprise from the Assassin.

    "Let's give the Assassins BP because......we're Assassins! I mean it's not like it'd cause more problems since we have insane amounts of DEX, and we'd have the ability to heal when we spark! What's wrong with that!?"

    Is it not bad enough you have stealth, target teleport, 5APS, stunlock (and sleep, and freeze....), and the ability to permaspark? How about we just gift wrap the entire game and sit it in your lap?

    Part of me is wondering how you can have the brain capacity to play the game....let alone ask for even MORE additions to your already VERY overpowered class.
    Once I was a Werebeast named T/\nk.

    Now the game is no longer fun. I'm retired.
  • SaiIorMoon - Lost City
    SaiIorMoon - Lost City Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Big surprise from the Assassin.

    "Let's give the Assassins BP because......we're Assassins! I mean it's not like it'd cause more problems since we have insane amounts of DEX, and we'd have the ability to heal when we spark! What's wrong with that!?"

    How will that change anything that we already have? Oh wait you're an archer you can perma-spark and hey you have an insane amount of dex. Oh wait you also wear the same armor as us, weiiiiiiiird. Why you mad?

    Is it not bad enough you have stealth, target teleport, 5APS, stunlock (and sleep, and freeze....), and the ability to permaspark? How about we just gift wrap the entire game and sit it in your lap?

    Part of me is wondering how you can have the brain capacity to play the game....let alone ask for even MORE additions to your already VERY overpowered class.

    No one is asking for more additions sweet heart. Simply was a suggestion that no one else has suggested about making bp class specific.

    and tbh I get killed more by every other class than assassins...
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Part of me is wondering how you can have the brain capacity to play the game....

    You basically said it yourself; it's and overpowered class. Doesn't take much brains to play it tbh. And the half dozen or so that actually do have brains and play it...well, you saw one of them get to lvl 105 already, without cashopping if you need an example
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »
    and tbh I get killed more by every other class than assassins...

    this is what I'm talking about...

    with stealth and, oh I don't know, the frikkin mini map, you should see all threats coming a mile away and be able to easily escape...
  • Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver
    Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »
    No one is asking for more additions sweet heart. Simply was a suggestion that no one else has suggested about making bp class specific.

    If they do anything, why not just make BP only for sins?

    and tbh I get killed more by every other class than assassins...

    I'm sorry, would you like to try that again?
    Asking and suggesting are likeness in the american language.

    Two, I'm not an archer. Read the signature. The forums hate my barb's username for some reason...so I post on my noob archer.
    Once I was a Werebeast named T/\nk.

    Now the game is no longer fun. I'm retired.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Two, I'm not an archer. Read the signature. The forums hate my barb's username for some reason...so I post on my noob archer.
    [/FONT]

    When we gonna get that e-book on troll tactics?
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Two, I'm not an archer. Read the signature. The forums hate my barb's username for some reason...so I post on my noob archer.

    This is also seen by that one psy that's named /\bra. He posts on his alt barb because the game doesnt like the "/\" part of the name
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'm sorry, would you like to try that again?
    Asking and suggesting are likeness in the american language.

    Two, I'm not an archer. Read the signature. The forums hate my barb's username for some reason...so I post on my noob archer.

    b:shutupOh my god I could have sworn your sig said that you were a werebeast names Tiger_guy a minute ago lol.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver
    Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    tweakz wrote: »
    When we gonna get that e-book on troll tactics?

    I dunno, when are you going to start writing it? I'm guessing it's after you have your genius breakthrough about how APS isn't broken, and solve world hunger?


    @Arch-- Yeah, it did. I noticed that after I put it up that the toon named Tiger_Guy is actually a Blademaster. b:surrender I've been retired for a very, very long time.

    I think I've seen that /\bra guy lurking Psychic forums before...I guess forums hate slashlines? I've been trying to get my barb's face up here for ages now.    .
    Once I was a Werebeast named T/\nk.

    Now the game is no longer fun. I'm retired.
  • Jadsia - Lost City
    Jadsia - Lost City Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    tweakz wrote: »
    When we gonna get that e-book on troll tactics?

    When you write one and post it I suppose.
    I **** bigger than you...

    Shut up and play the game.....Damn
  • shalow
    shalow Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Guys, it's really not that broken...

    You pay for 5aps, You get to kill faster at the cost of quite a lot of hp/str.
    This will make you a beast in nirvana, not so much in TW.

    Sins have high dps/stealth/stuns, but their aoe game is weak they can only kill 1 target effectively.

    Barbs have the option of claws or pure axe/tank barb can always devour with a higher dps squad I have found that very effective. Even better then pure 5aps squads in a lot of cases.

    Venos amp/soul degen(when it works) generates good overall dps. stacked with devour/extreme poison/heavens flame as well is very effective.

    Blademasters are the handymen, they do everything moderately well but don't really shine at any one thing. well all should know by now what a HF does when a 5aps is sparked.

    Clerics... not really complained about since they are a healing class not a dps class. however they do bring pretty heavy burst damage should it be needed.

    wiz/psy kinda fall in the same area imo. In an instance like nirvana they do not do well at all. They do bring a strong aoe game for other instances. fcc/rebirth/trophy runs/aoe grinding(which has became popular since the dq point system)

    Archers are a little like bms now they do a bit of everything. Unless they are heavily geared they don't have too much tanking power. its very hard for them to keep up with the dps of a sin or a bm, but they do get a bow :)

    All and all the classes are pretty balanced. I think its the players problem under rating debuffs. I do nirvanas with only 2-3 5aps and get them under 10 mins with a tank barb and veno. Where I have had them go 15 mins + with pure 5aps squads. so go figure, maybe if people weren't oracling, 12x leeching hyper fcc's they would know a little about how to play their class.

    As a balance, its way more easy then most people realize, ad instance that require zhen!(more like fcc but for 100's fcc too easy for level 100 players). Then those aoe classes will be more needed again and the 5aps can destroy bosses, everyones happy (well not really, haters have to hate something, pick on the fashion or something worth hating). All this crying about 5aps never came till nirvana which is a pure boss instance where only high dps shine.

    People that complain that they can't afford 5aps so they are never wanted, thats kinda the nature of the beast. If u pay more you should be better then someone that doesn't pay. I see lots of people in my faction doing runs without heavy 5aps squads. That is not even a valid argument, if you wanna roll with the tough guys, u gonna have to pay to keep up with the tough guys (or be really good at making tough friends). PWI is always gonna gear it that way as an inspiration to pay more. Stop jumping on the hate bandwagon just because it suits you.

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